Are demons really fallen angels?

[iamsoandso]

are demons really fallen angels,,,,no in short but walk through the words. go to lev. ch. 18;23 and lev. ch. 20;12 "confusion" the Hebrew word teh-bel strong's 8397,,then you will see it refers you to strong's #1101 bal-lal "a co-mixture/demon",,,the product of a woman crossed with another creature,i.e. "sons of god+daughters of men =demon",,,,remember they also sinned with the other creatures(animals),,,

continue to read both chapters lev. 18 and 20 (notice god states they who dwelt in the lands they are going to commited these abominations)i.e. sons of aneck,zamzamims ect.,,,,then go back to the word "confusion" in the strongs concordance. look up the other words translated as "confusion" ,,,,,,,,,,,then remember Babylon=confusion.

then look up the word used in Revelations "Babylon",,,,it refers you back to the Hebrew definition of the word/name babel/confusion,,,,to mix two or more things together,,teh-bel....if the fallen angels and the daughter's of men had a child,who created them god?,,,where do they go when they die heaven or hell? or tartarus?,,you see god did not create them and they are many.

here is a puzzling part,god said look they are one and see what they do,then he confused their language and they left off and scattered. the opposite of what they desired,"get us and name lest we be scattered",,,,they did not and were scattered and became the many nations. the mingled peoples Jeremiah 25;20 Jeremiah 51;53,,,,,,

god un-mingles them,,,they seek to mingle themselves again in the melting pot,,,,god confounds their languages,they create software to translate it. mingled peoples,,,with a mingled ruler and a mingled culture.

 

[Shiloah]

The question is are they fallen angels.I believe yes from what the bible says, they are in chains of darkness

But if they're chained in Tartarus, what were they doing possessing that fellow called Legion? Are you suggesting that they're in darkness even if they're traveling around possessing people? (Not making fun.)

 

[Shiloah]

Fact
The kings of Persia are literal kings on earth.

Fact
The kings of Persia in Daniel 11:2 are literal kings on earth.

Fact
This is not symbolic prophecy Daniel 10~12

Because of these facts the prince of persia is a literal prince from the kingdom of Persia.

Now wait. Aren't we talking about Daniel's vision where the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood the angel that meant to respond to Daniel's prayer for twenty days? How could a literal man (this said prince of Persia) keep an angel from coming to Daniel?

 

[Shiloah]

The English transliteration of the word "demon," is pronounced "daimon," and its G/K number is 1230 (The Strongest Exhaustive Concordance). Its definition of the word "daimon" is: evil spirit. Additionally, this fact is per Matthew 8:31, when the demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into that herd of pigs." Also, according to Mark 5:9, when Jesus asked the demon possessed man what his name was, he responded, "My name is legion, for we are many." I should add the best estimate of a Roman legion was anywhere from 3,000 to 6,000 men; do the math. It is evident the demon possessed man had many "evil spirits" in him. So it is clear Scripture does indeed refer to demons as "evil spirits;" more specifically, so did the authors of the gospels. "Doctrine of Men"? Have you ever heard of verbal-plenary inspiration, or do you not believe the Bible to be the divine, inspired and inerrant Word of God?

We can conclude:


(1) God is spirit.

(2) Satan is Spirit.

(3) Satan is an angel.

(4) There are many fallen angels.

(5) Fallen angels must likewise be spirits.

(6) Satan and fallen angels rebel (rebelled) against God.

(7) Per Revelation 12:7-9, Satan and his angels were hurled to the earth.

(8) Satan inhabits the earth (There are numerous scriptures which confirm this fact,
but let's just take Job into consideration).

(9) Satan is an evil spirit.

(10) Fallen Angels must also inhabit the earth, per numerous scriptures.

(11) Fallen angels are also evil spirits.

(12) Demon = Evil Spirit

(13) Evil spirit(s) [According to Scripture] = Satan/Fallen Angels

Well you're going with the assumption that if something's a spirit then it's the same as anything else that's spirit. Is Satan, since he's a spirit (I guess) God because God's spirit? Uh no.

 

[danschance]

are demons really fallen angels,,,,no in short but walk through the words. go to lev. ch. 18;23 and lev. ch. 20;12 "confusion" the Hebrew word teh-bel strong's 8397,,then you will see it refers you to strong's #1101 bal-lal "a co-mixture/demon",,,the product of a woman crossed with another creature,i.e. "sons of god+daughters of men =demon",,,,remember they also sinned with the other creatures(animals),,,

continue to read both chapters lev. 18 and 20 (notice god states they who dwelt in the lands they are going to commited these abominations)i.e. sons of aneck,zamzamims ect.,,,,then go back to the word "confusion" in the strongs concordance. look up the other words translated as "confusion" ,,,,,,,,,,,then remember Babylon=confusion.

then look up the word used in Revelations "Babylon",,,,it refers you back to the Hebrew definition of the word/name babel/confusion,,,,to mix two or more things together,,teh-bel....if the fallen angels and the daughter's of men had a child,who created them god?,,,where do they go when they die heaven or hell? or tartarus?,,you see god did not create them and they are many.

here is a puzzling part,god said look they are one and see what they do,then he confused their language and they left off and scattered. the opposite of what they desired,"get us and name lest we be scattered",,,,they did not and were scattered and became the many nations. the mingled peoples Jeremiah 25;20 Jeremiah 51;53,,,,,,

god un-mingles them,,,they seek to mingle themselves again in the melting pot,,,,god confounds their languages,they create software to translate it. mingled peoples,,,with a mingled ruler and a mingled culture.

You might be on to something here, but it is a bit muddled for me. I hope you can explain this a bit clearer. I see your logic but I need to see the actual scriptures before you can convince me. Very interesting though.

 

[iamsoandso]

You might be on to something here, but it is a bit muddled for me. I hope you can explain this a bit clearer. I see your logic but I need to see the actual scriptures before you can convince me. Very interesting though.

were i began to study this was in john 8;33 "we have Abraham's seed and have never been in bondage to(any man)",,,,a strange place to begin i know but consider this,,,the Hebrew people(Abraham)had at that time been in bondage to Egypt,Assyria,Babylon,Persia,Greece and Rome,,,,(notice Christ did not argue that point) why?

go to Deuteronomy ch,2, verse 5 and 9 ,,,notice the children of Esau and the children of Lot (did not go into bondage). now they said to Christ "Abraham's seed" ,,,Lot is the brother of Abraham's son so they are not lots blood line. so the lean-age is Abraham, Issac, Esau,Jacob,,,

now god tells them they will cross at "Ar" deut.2;18,,,then pass "Seir",,,so for them to have "never been in bondage and have Abraham seed as they told Christ,,,they had to have been decedents of Esau and is also the blood line from Herod to the same blood line worked on by "David Icke" The Bush Family Geneaology by DAvid Icke

Now from Leviticus ch. 18;27 and 20;23,,god states that those who dwelt in the lands they are about to posses(committed the acts stated) in these two chapters.,,,,then back to Deuteronomy chapter 2,,,,notice who he states they are "emims,anakims,horims,avims,zamzummims ect. (notice they are giants),,,mingled,confusion,

so if they are a product of an unnatural act the crossing of humans and son's of god or animals ect. where do these spirits go when their body of flesh dies?,,,,demons ,,,,,that's why they ask Christ,,have you come to judge us before the time? if not cast us into the swine.,,,,,,look at Greek mythology and think,,they all say "my father is a god(sons of god) and my mother was a human",,,before the flood,in Atlantis. i feel this is why peter used the word "tartarus",,instead of hades,sheol ect. that is they are not cast into the same place as others,but in chains in prison reserved till judgment.

 

[iamsoandso]

i suppose i should add,,,the link i provided i would use only as to research their genealogy. it seems fairly accurate as to there blood line as much of it was provided by them themselves. but also on the same link is the writers own conclusion's linking them to e.t./aliens ect. (i do not believe in little green men,lol),,,,,i do though believe that angels both aligned with god and those(fallen) have been witnessed on earth throughout history. and as well as we read in the scriptures were many bowed down to worship them and were told "do it not i am a fellow servant",,,there were also those (fallen) who received this worship and took liberty to deceive these as if they were god.,,,,,so use it wisely as to recon who was taken to captivity and who did not and why,,,,

 

[FIRE_of_ELIJAH]

"Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him" (Revelation 12:7-9, New International Version, 2011).

I appreciate your zeal for seeking the truth of God's Word, but how do you explain these verses? Revelation 12:7-9 clearly states Satan's angels fell to earth with him and that they did not remain in heaven. Why would you think angels who rebelled against God are still in heaven, and what part of Scripture do you use to support that notion? Can you provide me with a specific passage of Scripture to confirm your position?

Grace and Peace!

Im sorry I didn't see this post. Ive been wondering why there's no notification to inform us if someone is replying to our post. I can only see the "Likes notification".
I do love proper conversation without any name calling involved. Im not considering myself as all-knowing. If someone is being rude to me, then I simply stop the discussion.

Revelation 12:7-9 tells about the first battle between good and evil, between Lucifer with his angels and Michael's forces. This battle happened in the 3rd heaven where paul,the apostle,was caught up(2 corinthians 12:2). 3rd heaven is the dwelling place of God together with the angels and the saints. There are multiple kinds of heavens, not just one. In Gen.1:1 talks about plural "heavens" during creation. There are 3 kinds of heavens;such as, 1st heaven,2nd heaven and 3rd heaven. 1st heaven is our very own atmosphere we see. 2nd heaven is the outer space. 3rd was the one I mentioned already.

Now, this may sound weird to you, I don't know whether you heard this or not before. But I don't force you to believe me. All I want is to share using the Bible. Do you know that Lucifer was already here on earth before Adam and even before his fall? God appointed him as the first ruler not only the earth but the entire universe which is the 2nd heaven. Lucifer ruled over the earth and the entire universe together with his angels. There are 1/3 of angels whom given by God under his command. Lucifer was here on earth ;for, the Bible says he was in "Eden",this was pre-adamic eden because there were 2 edens in the bible,one belongs to Lucifer(Ezekiel 28:13) and the other belongs to adam. One may think, how old is the earth really was?is it 6000 years old or billions? Well,this is another topic that we can deal with for some other time, Ok back to the topic. Lucifer has been perfect from the day he was created till iniquity found in him.Meaning he was not always satan. He has been perfect maybe for a very long period of time,it could be millions or probably billions of years ,since the earth is very old according to the evidence that gathered by the scientists. It's been 6000 years since adam until now ,but overall ,it's billion.
"He looks up and see God and became jealous". meaning Lucifer was below when this jealousy took place. He was on earth or maybe in the 2nd heaven. to cut the story short. He was able to convince all his angels that God is unjust and bad. Together they invaded the 3rd heaven but failed. And the Fall was happened(that's why Jesus said "I saw satan fall like lightning"). Lucifer became satan and his angels became fallen angels. They were forever cast out from heaven. Lucifer who's became satan has lose his dominion on earth and in the 2nd heaven. And then God created Adam. and gave him dominion of what lucifer has lose. He's now the new king on earth. But satan tempted adam and succeeded. Satan regained back his position as the king(the reason why he's being called the god of this world) . And his angels regained back their habitation which is in the 2nd heaven. That's why apostle paul says in Ephesians 6:12 that our struggle is not against flesh and blood against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world "and against the spiritual forces of evil IN THE HEAVENLY REALMS".
"and against the spiritual forces of evil IN THE HEAVENLY REALMS". <<< This is about the fallen angels dwell in the 2nd heaven.

You can ask me anytime you want.

God bless you brother

 

[kenisyes]

so if they are a product of an unnatural act the crossing of humans and son's of god or animals ect. where do these spirits go when their body of flesh dies?,,,,demons

I certainly agree that the word "mingling" or "confusion" is what you would call the offspring of humans and emims, anakims, etc.

Your only connection to demons appears to be in the phrase I quoted, right? I see no other way to make such a connection, from the word itself, for example. You cannot go through the word Belial, which although often used as a name for Satan in common language, is not used that way in Scripture, and is thus an accomodated sense. Belial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia has a good review of how the word developed. You have certainly done a great job of presenting the case for those who believe that demons are the spirits of descendants of the Nephilim, and how the idea developed in the time Jesus was on earth.

But to make your connection through the part I quoted, is to make the assumption that the spirits of the offspring are demons, not to prove it. These spirits could go many places. In fact, a good argument can be made that they do not even have spirits at all, based on the idea that the children of the nephilim are clones rather than real creatures, or some kind of animal, as the Mayan Popul Vuh suggests the giants became Bigfoot. If they are indeed animals with enough speech ability to behave like humans, there would be no spirit. The products of sexual union of human/clone need not be human at all, anymore than a human/monkey.

We still end up going back to my original response, that there at least three definitions of the term "demon". It is an English, not a Scriptural word, and so it depends who you talk to.

 

[NiceneCreed]

Im sorry I didn't see this post. Ive been wondering why there's no notification to inform us if someone is replying to our post. I can only see the "Likes notification".
I do love proper conversation without any name calling involved. Im not considering myself as all-knowing. If someone is being rude to me, then I simply stop the discussion.

Revelation 12:7-9 tells about the first battle between good and evil, between Lucifer with his angels and Michael's forces. This battle happened in the 3rd heaven where paul,the apostle,was caught up(2 corinthians 12:2). 3rd heaven is the dwelling place of God together with the angels and the saints. There are multiple kinds of heavens, not just one. In Gen.1:1 talks about plural "heavens" during creation. There are 3 kinds of heavens;such as, 1st heaven,2nd heaven and 3rd heaven. 1st heaven is our very own atmosphere we see. 2nd heaven is the outer space. 3rd was the one I mentioned already.

Now, this may sound weird to you, I don't know whether you heard this or not before. But I don't force you to believe me. All I want is to share using the Bible. Do you know that Lucifer was already here on earth before Adam and even before his fall? God appointed him as the first ruler not only the earth but the entire universe which is the 2nd heaven. Lucifer ruled over the earth and the entire universe together with his angels. There are 1/3 of angels whom given by God under his command. Lucifer was here on earth ;for, the Bible says he was in "Eden",this was pre-adamic eden because there were 2 edens in the bible,one belongs to Lucifer(Ezekiel 28:13) and the other belongs to adam. One may think, how old is the earth really was?is it 6000 years old or billions? Well,this is another topic that we can deal with for some other time, Ok back to the topic. Lucifer has been perfect from the day he was created till iniquity found in him.Meaning he was not always satan. He has been perfect maybe for a very long period of time,it could be millions or probably billions of years ,since the earth is very old according to the evidence that gathered by the scientists. It's been 6000 years since adam until now ,but overall ,it's billion.
"He looks up and see God and became jealous". meaning Lucifer was below when this jealousy took place. He was on earth or maybe in the 2nd heaven. to cut the story short. He was able to convince all his angels that God is unjust and bad. Together they invaded the 3rd heaven but failed. And the Fall was happened(that's why Jesus said "I saw satan fall like lightning"). Lucifer became satan and his angels became fallen angels. They were forever cast out from heaven. Lucifer who's became satan has lose his dominion on earth and in the 2nd heaven. And then God created Adam. and gave him dominion of what lucifer has lose. He's now the new king on earth. But satan tempted adam and succeeded. Satan regained back his position as the king(the reason why he's being called the god of this world) . And his angels regained back their habitation which is in the 2nd heaven. That's why apostle paul says in Ephesians 6:12 that our struggle is not against flesh and blood against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world "and against the spiritual forces of evil IN THE HEAVENLY REALMS".
"and against the spiritual forces of evil IN THE HEAVENLY REALMS". <<< This is about the fallen angels dwell in the 2nd heaven.

You can ask me anytime you want.

God bless you brother

I do appreciate your reply; however, I am not sure if you really answered my question. I posted Revelation 12:7-9 because it clearly states Satan and his angels were cast down to earth. Likewise, I also agree Satan lived on the earth prior to the creation of Adam. Regardless, the Bible makes no distinction between "evil spirits" and "demons," and that was the point I was attempting to get across. Fallen angels are the "demons/evil spirits" mentioned throughout Scripture, other than the Nephilim who were wiped out during the 'Great Flood.' The Nephilim are already in hell, and although Scripture -- as far as I know -- doesn't directly state this fact -- it does give us plenty of reason to believe this to be the case. The entire earth was populated with Nephilim, aside from Noah and his family. Why would God wipe out all the Nephilim, only to have their spirits roaming around on earth and causing more destruction then they did prior to the flood? That notion clearly would not make any sense.



Grace and Peace!

 

[NiceneCreed]

Well you're going with the assumption that if something's a spirit then it's the same as anything else that's spirit. Is Satan, since he's a spirit (I guess) God because God's spirit? Uh no.

What evidence can you provide that Satan and angels are not spirits, for that matter? It is easy for you to discredit anyone's argument by not looking at Scripture, but I am wondering if you can show a positive to your position . . .

What verse(s) in Scripture led you to believe angels are not spirits? Can you show us a positive for your position?

 

[Shiloah]

What evidence can you provide that Satan and angels are not spirits, for that matter? It is easy for you to discredit anyone's argument by not looking at Scripture, but I am wondering if you can show a positive to your position . . .

What verse(s) in Scripture led you to believe angels are not spirits? Can you show us a positive for your position?

I wasn't saying they aren't spirit. I'm saying that because one is a spirit doesn't mean all spirits come from the same place. Let's face it, we've no real idea what a spirit is; we just know we can't see it.

I was actually referring to your final statement; Evil spirit(s) [According to Scripture] = Satan/Fallen Angels. My point is, because one thing is a spirit and angels are spirits, this doesn't make all evil spirits fallen angels.

 

[NiceneCreed]

I wasn't saying they aren't spirit. I'm saying that because one is a spirit doesn't mean all spirits come from the same place. Let's face it, we've no real idea what a spirit is; we just know we can't see it.

I was actually referring to your final statement; Evil spirit(s) [According to Scripture] = Satan/Fallen Angels. My point is, because one thing is a spirit and angels are spirits, this doesn't make all evil spirits fallen angels.

So you do admit angels are spirits, but you cannot explain why there would be other evil spirits that are not angelic in nature? I think you must have a reason for believing such a thing, and I am interested as to what led you to that conclusion.

 

[NiceneCreed]

Well you're going with the assumption that if something's a spirit then it's the same as anything else that's spirit. Is Satan, since he's a spirit (I guess) God because God's spirit? Uh no.

I never asserted Satan was God because Satan is spirit like God. My point was to illustrate that Satan is a spirit, and since Satan is evil, that makes him an evil spirit.

Demon = evil spirit

 

[FIRE_of_ELIJAH]

I do appreciate your reply; however, I am not sure if you really answered my question. I posted Revelation 12:7-9 because it clearly states Satan and his angels were cast down to earth. Likewise, I also agree Satan lived on the earth prior to the creation of Adam. Regardless, the Bible makes no distinction between "evil spirits" and "demons," and that was the point I was attempting to get across. Fallen angels are the "demons/evil spirits" mentioned throughout Scripture, other than the Nephilim who were wiped out during the 'Great Flood.' The Nephilim are already in hell, and although Scripture -- as far as I know -- doesn't directly state this fact -- it does give us plenty of reason to believe this to be the case. The entire earth was populated with Nephilim, aside from Noah and his family. Why would God wipe out all the Nephilim, only to have their spirits roaming around on earth and causing more destruction then they did prior to the flood? That notion clearly would not make any sense.



Grace and Peace!

Like I said before,I don't force u to believe me even if i posted it biblically. Im still ok with that.
Nowhere in my post that I said "demons/evil spirits were the spirits of the giants that were wiped off during Noah's flood". There's no passage in the bible also that states fallen angels have become demons or evil spirits after the fall. If you feel u can provide me the complete passages then feel free to do so.

God bless

 

[iamsoandso]

I certainly agree that the word "mingling" or "confusion" is what you would call the offspring of humans and emims, anakims, etc.

Your only connection to demons appears to be in the phrase I quoted, right? I see no other way to make such a connection, from the word itself, for example. You cannot go through the word Belial, which although often used as a name for Satan in common language, is not used that way in Scripture, and is thus an accomodated sense. Belial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia has a good review of how the word developed. You have certainly done a great job of presenting the case for those who believe that demons are the spirits of descendants of the Nephilim, and how the idea developed in the time Jesus was on earth.

But to make your connection through the part I quoted, is to make the assumption that the spirits of the offspring are demons, not to prove it. These spirits could go many places. In fact, a good argument can be made that they do not even have spirits at all, based on the idea that the children of the nephilim are clones rather than real creatures, or some kind of animal, as the Mayan Popul Vuh suggests the giants became Bigfoot. If they are indeed animals with enough speech ability to behave like humans, there would be no spirit. The products of sexual union of human/clone need not be human at all, anymore than a human/monkey.

We still end up going back to my original response, that there at least three definitions of the term "demon". It is an English, not a Scriptural word, and so it depends who you talk to.

hello ken,sorry i do not respond quickly i am mostly on the site in the morning and after reading i will usually return around 2-4 cst and respond right before you get home. i the word demon(English)is only given in English to denote the meaning of the Hebrew (strongs 1101 beh-lal)that is if we follow the root words of these we find babylon,babel,confusion,mixture,mixture,mix,un-mix,,,,these and other roots applied in different context in different scripture.

i wont be able to respond in more detail until this afternoon/night.,,,,,my premiss of thinking is to this effect cherub,sefaph,ophanim,,weather aligned with god or weather they are fallen are all "created by god" so they are not the product of a co mixture of two or more creations created by god.

but on the other hand strongs 1101,babel and 8397 teh-bel and other words usually associated with demons,confusion,nephel,babel,babylon ect. are of co-mixture of two or more things combined. and so hence are not created by god the creator. i fell short of using enoch,jubalees,and others to explain because it has not been referred to in any of the post so far but it's striking to note the usage of the same words in these and other books as to the "co-mixture of the sons of god and daughters of men",,,

in deut. 2 again "co-mixture",,anack,zamzummins ect.,,,,i will try to locate the scripture from enoch "that which is of heaven remaineth in heaven,that which is of the earth remaineth in the earth",,,this was the punishment Enoch said to the sons of god when they sent them to petition god to forgive them.(i'm tip-e-toeing around this you know not to cause a distraction)but rather "legion,more than one",,,several ingredients,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

Ophanim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Seraph - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Cherub - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia these three i thought to give the links to as "they all three are creations of god",,and also as we note whether or not some of the angels fell(cast out of heaven),,they also are "creations of god",,,not that they were created as/in a state of "fallen" but (i am denoting that god created them,their creature,and then they fell"....

Ancient Languages: translate english to ancient latin, ancient latin, latin translation here is the entire phrase translated,,,"legio nomen mihi,est,quia multi sumas",,,,,,,,,,notice the definition the devil/devil's gave of it;s own name "for sum i am multi" again as we discussed about "auto,arithmos" in "i need help with this math problem" as in Latin and Spanish were "his number" should be,or could be transposed as "i am from the sum of multi",,,, again the reference to the "co-mixture of creatures"or the spirit's/devils of these after their bodies died.

now these devils/spirits,,not being created by god but created by the un-natural co-mixture of two or more creatures created by god upon death have no remedy created by god. that is those created by god are in those places spoken of by their creator. as in Hades,hell,Sheol or Abraham bosom,pardis,heaven(i use these terms only to appease those different ideas of the present state of afterlife). but these "many referred to as leagon" not being created by god wander about not bound in tartarus(2nd peter 2;4) as described by peter of those who sinned or jude verse 6 "left their first estate".

this is a complicated approach to this i am taking i know,,,i find it curious that the "demons" are found dwelling in or possessing humans,swine ect. and the angels who fell/left their first estate,are bound in chains of darkness in tartarus,that is they dwell in two different places. anyway for now ill end,,,,,,,

 

[kenisyes]

I think you have the geneologies correct, and demons are likely created by mixture rather than by God. But mixture of what? That's the real question. Humans and God, nephalim and God, humans and devils, there are just too many options we don't seem to have a way to eliminate, and that's what is causing the difficulties. As you point out, there are many "mixtures" God does not like in the OT. The word "demon" is an English word derived from a Greek word, that likely means something else. Every time my computer shuts down, one thing that turns off is a daemon, for instance. Unless we can back translate it to Scripture, we cannot use that as a resource. And Belial is just too general to do that.

To go back to the OP, if demons are a mixture of fallen angels and human who have died, then we must vote "yes". But if they are a mixture of humans and maybe thrones or ophanim, with the humans providing the evil, we must vote "no".

 

[iamsoandso]

i agree,ive looked at this for years,and followed the post to see if something more would turn up.,,,the word "legion",(Latin) may be a Cary-over from interpretations "textus receptus",,,now another thought i had was the Greek word for many "poly" as used in rev.9;11 "a'-polly-on ,,,but that could only be proved with an original manuscript of mark or Luke as to if it was "legion or poly". though it is still odd to see rev. stating the name "Apollyon",,,

in Mathew,which many say the original was Hebrew,,in the same story it states "there met him two possessed with devils",,,the text never uses "men or man",,,,but "two",,,more than one again so maybe "co-mixture",,,,but with out originals again how to prove it?,,,,

Fragments of Mark's Gospel May Date to 1st Century - Forbes these have not been yet given to the public but a few years from now may shed light,,,,that is if they contain these chapters,,,,,,who knows yet,,,

 

[kenisyes]

A lot of ifs, as usual, when you get to your cutting edge documentation. I would love to see those first century copies. Until we do, of course, there's no guarantee that there will be anything different, and even if there is, that it will affect the problem at hand. And I guess one could always claim if they are different, tht the differences are in there because a heretical sect changed the authentic copies......