Difference between God and Jesus

[phil36]

I certainly don't have any righteousness of myself only in Christ. And these are not my teachings, this is where you fool yourself and possibly others. It is the PLAIN words of scripture and what the church has always held... most certainly false teaching needs to be condemned,,, and the church already has, It fact you can even see this in the PLAIN words of Scripture .


As I say the truth offends. But the good news is, it is the power of God unto salvation for those who ears to hear.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

As Jesus plainly stated the Father is the one true God, and bearing in mind the author you are quoting stated twice
'No one has seen God at anytime'
I think that verse needs to be looked at, and understood bearing that in mind. If the Father is not the one true God, then Christ did not speak the truth.

But doesn't that create a dilemma? John clearly states that Jesus is the one true GOD. Wouldn't a believing heart believe that both Jesus and John are speaking the truth? Why isn't it that both Jesus and the father can't be the one true GOD?

I think if you prayerfully consider, you may find (as I believe) that both Jesus and others, depending on the context, use the term GOD to refer to both the father and the godhead.

 

[phil36]

Phil, we got division, things will straighten out in His coming trust me. Oneness, Modelism, Unitarianism, etc will end.

This is true, but it is also dangerous teaching for the present that's why the church has always condemned it. I always remember that the best lies have some truth mixed in.. I think that's why so many are willing to believe so easily false teaching.

Phil

 

[Quickfire]

People can use words to make themselves look humble and saintly, and they pretend they are fearlessly standing on the side of truth and speaking in love, and they will deceive many
For when these people are condemning others for believing the words Christ stated on this earth no one should be fooled by their falseness, it is oh so dangerous, and could not be Holy Spirit led

yes i understand and its sad , ive seen it many times now,

its so easy for people to hide behinds there pens, i think its easy for people to get caught up in there own self righteousness to
This confo is a no brainer with phil hes not going to listen, let him have his rabit and his little rabit trails best thing you can do is just let him work it out for him self you have done your best.

I think you have spoken very well here gb

 

[silas42]

I certainly don't have any righteousness of myself only in Christ. And these are not my teachings, this is where you fool yourself and possibly others. It is the PLAIN words of scripture and what the church has always held... most certainly false teaching needs to be condemned,,, and the church already has, It fact you can even see this in the PLAIN words of Scripture .


As I say the truth offends. But the good news is, it is the power of God unto salvation for those who ears to hear.

Unfortunately you cannot answer any simple questions put to you, just keep on blindly condemning the innocent.
So I will keep on telling you, the ordained ministers do not preach your demands from the pulpit, the bible does not state your demands for a person to be saved, the overwhelming majority of churchgoers wouldn't either. If you were sincere and true to your beliefs I suppose you'd have to condemn all of them too, but you simply remain silent

It is weak, very weak indeed, and none should be fooled

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If the Father is greater than the Son, then there is a distinction between the two, both in administrations and functions. I like your previous post, the human is just like the trinity. You have the soul, spirit, and flesh. Neither of them are the same function but they exist coherently as one person. Persons is what separates the difference between the titles. One being in three personal functions as God. Since Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father as we speak, the Spirit of God dwells in you....now how does that not explain persons?

What you call persons, I see as states of being.

 

[Bryancampbell]

What you call persons, I see as states of being.

Ah so are you a Sabellianist. You're one out of few I met that believes this. Do you have scripture to prove it?

 

[phil36]

Unfortunately you cannot answer any simple questions put to you, just keep on blindly condemning the innocent.
So I will keep on telling you, the ordained ministers do not preach your demands from the pulpit, the bible does not state your demands for a person to be saved, the overwhelming majority of churchgoers wouldn't either. If you were sincere and true to your beliefs I suppose you'd have to condemn all of them too, but you simply remain silent

It is weak, very weak indeed, and none should be fooled

Silas,

I have already answered you, and if my memory serves me correct someone else also commented on it.

Personally I would rather people not take my word for it, because I am a fallen man. I would ask that they go to scripture, and ask their own Pastor/Minister.

I still stand by the truth what scripture teaches and what the church has always held. Jesus is fully God and fully human and the second person of the trinity. To believe anything else is not believing in the true Jesus.

What have I demanded a person believe to be saved..this will be interesting?

 

[cfultz3]

I have read of what Christ said

The Father is the one true God and greater than he, you believe I cannot be saved with that belief. Who's voice are you listening to to believe that?

Where did I say that you cannot "be saved" with that belief? Yes, the Father is greater than the Son. But, it was the Word who emptied Himself and became the Son. If you would, search Angel + Lord, Angel + God, and see if the Word is not God Himself, our very Creator, the same One who made the Old Testament Covenant, the Same one speaks for the Godhead.

But this is what I said:

are we to believe that the LORD is our Savior? ---yes

Is there any other savior besides the LORD? ----no

Is Jesus Christ our Savior? -----yes

Are we to believe Jesus Christ is God? ---- yes

If Jesus Christ is not God, the same One who said He is our Savior in the Old Testament, then we are saying that the LORD is not our Savior. If Jesus is not our Savior (the LORD is our Savior) then we do not believe the LORD as our Savior. There is no other means to the Father except through the Son who came to be our Savior from the Old Testament.

If you believe Jesus is your Savior, then He is the LORD who said He is our Savior.

So, yes! One must believe Jesus is that God who promised us to be our Deliverer (Psalms).

But, does one have to come to this knowledge before receiving salvation? To this I say: we grow in the knowledge of the Faith day by day and it is when we hearken to the Spirit of Truth that this Truth is found. But yet, one cannot remain in opposition to the revealed Truth.

 

[silas42]

yes i understand and its sad , ive seen it many times now,

its so easy for people to hide behinds there pens, i think its easy for people to get caught up in there own self righteousness to
This confo is a no brainer with phil hes not going to listen, let him have his rabit and his little rabit trails best thing you can do is just let him work it out for him self you have done your best.

I think you have spoken very well here gb

You are right, Phil36 should now be left to continue his condemnation of others, I will leave it there with him.
Thank you for your support, it is appreciated.
BTW
I am sure you have written better than me, but thanks for your gracious words

 

[silas42]

Where did I say that you cannot "be saved" with that belief? QUOTE]

I am not in this debate to discuss human reasoning that seeks(however innocently) to overturn the words of Christ when he walked this earth, so please excuse me from that.

However, if you are saying that someone who believes the Father is the one true God and greater than the Son can be saved, I am sincerely heartened to read that, and would not wish to continue discussion with you on this, for I am sure you know I am only wishing to point out the biblical requirement for salvation, it seems from what you have written, you agree with that requirement

 

[Quickfire]

originaly postedby phil

Those who deny and teach falsely need to be brought to account,

ha thats a laugh,

your now saying people need to go pastors and ministers for the truth, it looks here like you want to bring them to account,
which one is it,? you need to have discernment, for the word deny, what you see as people denying might be perfectly innocent,

 

[silas42]

originaly postedby phil
ha thats a laugh,

your now saying people need to go pastors and ministers for the truth, it looks here like you want to bring them to account,
which one is it,? you need to have discernment, for the word deny, what you see as people denying might be perfectly innocent,

Actually I told a Trinitarian minister people on the internet were saying if you believe Jesus is the Son of God, but not God Himself you can't be saved with that belief, he shook his head and laughed

 

[cfultz3]

Where did I say that you cannot "be saved" with that belief? QUOTE]

I am not in this debate to discuss human reasoning that seeks(however innocently) to overturn the words of Christ when he walked this earth, so please excuse me from that.

However, if you are saying that someone who believes the Father is the one true God and greater than the Son can be saved, I am sincerely heartened to read that, and would not wish to continue discussion with you on this, for I am sure you know I am only wishing to point out the biblical requirement for salvation, it seems from what you have written, you agree with that requirement

You keep saying human reasoning while, all the while, I am simple trying to get you to go to Scripture yourself.

I must ask again, show me where I am just giving human reasoning (opinion)? Show me again, where I gave you my opinion when I spoke of the Word, the Messenger of the Lord?

You keep saying it, but I am still waiting. Either show me or stop saying it is just my opinion.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Ah so are you a Sabellianist. You're one out of few I met that believes this. Do you have scripture to prove it?

No I'm not a Sabellianist. Can you show me where Sabellius taught or believed what I stated?

 

[WeStand]

Christ IS the only way to GOD (Get Over Death)

GOD; Getting Over Death IS the only way to Our Father.

might help; though I surely doubt lol

 

[Bryancampbell]

No I'm not a Sabellianist. Can you show me where Sabellius taught or believed what I stated?

They believe that God is in modes, forms, states, instead of person...
Search...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

They believe that God is in modes, forms, states, instead of person...
Search...

I have searched it and have found that the only things we know about what Sabellius believed and taught is from his detractors. And I have found that modern trinitarians misrepresent modalism as defined by his detractors in order to leverage the detractors rejection of it as a means of legitimizing their (modern trinitarians) condemnation of ideas that contradict trinitarianism.

Modalism is the belief that GOD manifests himself in various ways (father, son, spirit) at different times depending upon the circumstance. I don't believe that at all. I believe that GOD is one being with 3 distinct, co-existent states of being. We are made in his image, and that is how we exist.

 

[Bryancampbell]

I have searched it and have found that the only things we know about what Sabellius believed and taught is from his detractors. And I have found that modern trinitarians misrepresent modalism as defined by his detractors in order to leverage the detractors rejection of it as a means of legitimizing their (modern trinitarians) condemnation of ideas that contradict trinitarianism.

Modalism is the belief that GOD manifests himself in various ways (father, son, spirit) at different times depending upon the circumstance. I don't believe that at all. I believe that GOD is one being with 3 distinct, co-existent states of being. We are made in his image, and that is how we exist.

3rd century is quite far back, thanks for the search I tried looking. Only the statement of the belief is mentioned. I don't understand what you mean by states of you don't mean manifestation mentioned in sabellianist believe. Explain your position?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

3rd century is quite far back, thanks for the search I tried looking. Only the statement of the belief is mentioned. I don't understand what you mean by states of you don't mean manifestation mentioned in sabellianist believe. Explain your position?

We are made in the image of GOD and have a body, spirit, and soul. Our soul and spirit dwell in, and express themselves through, our body, but our body cannot contain all that our soul and spirit are because they are both greater than our body. Yet our soul and spirit do not express themselves apart from our body.

Jesus is the visible form of the invisible GOD, i.e., what he called the father. The father expresses himself to creation through his body, the son Jesus (or preincarnation, the logos). Jesus cannot contain all that the father is, but the father does not express himself except through Jesus. The two are not the same any more than our soul and body are the same, but they are one being.