Bride isn't going to be in the tribulation

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
#21
lol there is nothing to study, the holy spirit reveals the mystery of the entire bible, maybe you need to pray and ask for spiritual understanding
Be careful what spirit you listen to. The Holy Spirit is not the only spirit capable of getting into the heads of Christians. After all, even Christ was tempted by Satan.

The Pre-Trib Rapture is the work of Satan and if he could fool people (ADAM AND EVE) who actually knew and walked with God, how hard would it be for Satan to fool you? I know you aren't to blame for this Satanic lie being widespread throughout the Christian world, I'm just saying, "Have patience to process your soul." In other words, don't run out for the first "Christ" to appear because Paul was pretty clear about which one comes first.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
63
#22
Be careful what spirit you listen to. The Holy Spirit is not the only spirit capable of getting into the heads of Christians. After all, even Christ was tempted by Satan.

The Pre-Trib Rapture is the work of Satan and if he could fool people (ADAM AND EVE) who actually knew and walked with God, how hard would it be for Satan to fool you? I know you aren't to blame for this Satanic lie being widespread throughout the Christian world, I'm just saying, "Have patience to process your soul." In other words, don't run out for the first "Christ" to appear because Paul was pretty clear about which one comes first.
No believer with the Holy Spirit will be deceived by the enemy's games. We can discern between truth and error. No believer will be lost either, since Christ is the author and finisher of our faith.

Be careful when attributing something good with something evil. The catching away of the saints is not a satanic lie. Scripture speaks of the saints being changed and being caught up to meet Christ in the clouds, so it will happen, it's only the timing of it that's open to debate. Antichrist is revealed before Christ's second coming, but the saints return with Christ.

There's also a connection between the ancient Jewish weddings and the manner in which Christ will return for His church. The groom would take his bride to the wedding chamber for 7 days, a place prepared for her in his father's house. He could go for his bride only when his father approved. If the bridegroom was asked when the wedding was to be, he might well say "it is not for me to know, only my father knows".

Anyway, the end time deception will fool many that are lost, many will perish because they didn't receive the love of the truth that they might be saved. The rapture has nothing to do with the end time deception. The lost don't believe in a rapture anyway, so how could they be deceived by that.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#23
The church is there still well after chapter 4 in Revelation. The church will be here , its written to the church . According to Revelation. The rapture theory negates those scriptures about the activities of those with the seal of God in, their forehead. But people will attempt to fit rapture into every little scripture, yet its not there. The word is not there; and it does not fit into the order of events. Christ is returning, sure, but He is returning here. And there wont be any gathering back to Him, until after the great Apostasy written of in II Thes 2, and many other places.
 
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Linda70

Guest
#24
JEWISH MARRIAGE CUSTOMS

Dr. Renald Showers, Chairman of the Pastoral Studies Dept. Philadelphia College of Bible (year unknown) Distributed by, The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry, Inc., W. Collingswood, N.J.​

Behold, The Bridegroom Comes!​

The Comforting Promise

It was a night of destiny. Jesus had gathered with His disciples in the Upper Room. In a few more hours He would be crucified on a cross. Jesus had been warning His disciples concerning His coming death, resurrection and ascension to heaven. The prospect of these events caused the disciples to be greatly disturbed. In order to ease their fears, Jesus made the following comforting promise:

Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, Believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also. (John 14:1-3.)

Jewish Marriage Customs

Those who live in the modern western world do not catch the full significance of Jesus' promise. This is due to the fact that in His promise Jesus was drawing an analogy from Jewish marriage customs in biblical times. Since this is so, those marriage customs must be examined if one is to grasp the significance of the promise.

The first major step in a Jewish marriage was betrothal.1 Betrothal involved the establishment of a marriage covenant. By Jesus' time it was usual for such a covenant to be established as the result of the prospective bridegroom taking the initiative.2 The prospective bridegroom would travel from his father's house to the home of the prospective bride. There he would negotiate with the father of the young woman to determine the price (mohar) that he must pay to purchase his bride.3 Once the bridegroom paid the purchase price, the marriage covenant was thereby established, and the young man and woman were regarded to be husband and wife.4 From that moment on the bride was declared to be consecrated or sanctified, set apart exclusively for her bridegroom.5 As a symbol of the covenant relationship that had been established, the groom and bride would drink from a cup of wine over which a betrothal benediction had been pronounced.6

After the marriage covenant had been established, the groom would leave the home of the bride and return to his father's house. There he would remain separate from his bride for a period of twelve months.7 This period of separation afforded the bride time to gather her trousseau and to prepare for married life.8 The groom occupied himself with the preparation of living accommodations in his father's house to which he could bring his bride.

At the end of the period of separation the groom would come to take his bride to live with him. The taking of the bride usually took place at night. The groom, best man and other male escorts would leave the groom's father's house and conduct a torch light procession to the home of the bride.9 Although the bride was expecting her groom to come for her, she did not know the exact time of his coming.10 As a result the groom's arrival would be preceded by a shout.11 This shout would forewarn the bride to be prepared for the coming of the groom.

After the groom received his bride together with her female attendants, the enlarged wedding party would return from the bride's home to the groom's father's house.12 Upon arrival there the wedding party would find that the wedding guests had assembled already.

Shortly after arrival the bride and groom would be escorted by the other members of the wedding party to the bridal chamber (huppah). Prior to entering the chamber the bride remained veiled so that no one could see her face.13 While the groomsmen and bridesmaids would wait outside, the bride and groom would enter the bridal chamber alone. There in the privacy of that place they would enter into physical union for the first time, thereby consummating the marriage that had been covenanted earlier.14

After the marriage was consummated, the groom would announce the consummation to the other members of the wedding party waiting outside the chamber (John 3:29). These people would pass on the news of the marital union to the wedding guests.15 Upon receiving this good news the wedding guests would feast and make merry for the next seven days.16

During the seven days of the wedding festivities, which were sometimes called "the seven days of the huppah," the bride remained hidden in the bridal chamber.17 At the conclusion of these seven days the groom would bring his bride out of the bridal chamber, now with her veil removed, so that all could see who his bride was.

The Examination of the Analogy

Earlier it was stated that in His promise in John 14 Jesus drew an analogy from Jewish marriage customs in biblical times. Now that the marriage customs have been considered, it is essential that the analogy be examined. In what ways was Jesus' promise analogous with Jewish marriage customs? In the examination of the analogy the first thing that should be noted is the fact that the Scriptures regard the Church to be the Bride of Christ (Eph. 5:22-23). In addition, just as the Jewish bridegroom took the initiative in marriage by leaving his father's house and travelling to the home of the prospective bride, so Jesus left His Father's house in heaven and travelled to earth, the home of His prospective Church, over 1900 years ago.

In the same manner as the Jewish bridegroom came to the bride's home for the purpose of obtaining her through the establishment of a marriage covenant, so Jesus came to earth for the purpose of obtaining the Church through the establishment of a covenant. On the same night in which Jesus made His promise in John 14 He instituted communion. As He passed the cup of wine to His disciples, He said: "This cup is the new covenant in my blood" (1 Cor. 11:25). This was His way of saying that He would establish a new covenant through the shedding of His blood on the cross. Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom paying a price to purchase his bride, Jesus paid a price to purchase His bride, the Church. The price that He paid was His own life blood. It was because of this purchase price that Paul wrote the following to members of the Church: "know ye not that...ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor. 6:19-20).

Analogous with the Jewish bride being declared to be sanctified or set apart exclusively for her groom once the marriage covenant was established, the Church has been declared to be sanctified or set apart exclusively for Christ (Eph. 5:25-27; 1Cor. 1:2; 6:11; Heb. 10:10; 13:12).

In the same way that a cup of wine served as a symbol of the marriage covenant through which the Jewish groom obtained his bride, so the cup of communion serves as the symbol of the covenant through which Christ has obtained the Church (1 Cor. 11:25).

Just as the Jewish groom left the home of his bride and returned to his father's house after the marriage covenant had been established, so Jesus left the earth, the home of the Church, and returned to His Father's house in heaven after He had established the new covenant and risen from the dead (John 6:62; 20:17).

Corresponding with the period of separation between the Jewish groom and bride, Christ has remained separate from the Church for over 1900 years. The Church is now living in that period of separation.

Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom preparing living accommodations for his bride in his father's house during the time of separation, Christ has been preparing living accommodations for the Church in His Father's house in heaven during His separation from His Bride (John 14:2).

In the same manner as the Jewish groom came to take his bride to live with him at the end of the period of separation, so Christ will come to take His Church to live with Him at the end of His period of separation from the Church (John 14:3).

Just as the taking of the Jewish bride was accomplished by a procession of the groom and male escorts from the groom's father's house to the home of the bride, so the taking of the Church will be accomplished by a procession of Christ and an angelic escort from Christ's Father's house in heaven to the home of the Church (1 Thess. 4:16).

Analogous with the Jewish bride not knowing the exact time of the groom's coming for her, the Church does not know the exact time of Christ's coming for her.

In the same way that the Jewish groom's arrival was preceded by a shout, so Christ's arrival to take the Church will be preceded by a shout (1 Thess. 4:16).

Similar to the Jewish bride's return with the groom to his father's house after her departure from her home, the Church will return with Christ to His Father's house in heaven after she is snatched from the earth to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:17; John 14:2-3).

In the same manner as the Jewish wedding party found wedding guests assembled in the groom's father's house when they arrived, so Christ and the Church will find the souls of Old Testament saints assembled in heaven when they arrive. These souls will serve as the wedding guests.

Parallel to the custom of the Jewish groom and bride entering into physical union after their arrival at the groom's father's house, thereby consummating the marriage that had been covenanted earlier, Christ and the Church will experience spiritual union after their arrival at His Father's house in heaven, thereby consummating their relationship that had been covenanted earlier.

Corresponding with the Jewish bride remaining hidden in the bridal chamber for a period of seven days after arrival at the groom's father's house, the Church will remain hidden for a period of seven after arrival at Christ's Father's house in heaven. While the seven year Tribulation Period is taking place on the earth, the Church will be in heaven totally hidden from the sight of those living on the earth.

Just as the Jewish groom brought his bride out of the bridal chamber at the conclusion of the seven days with her veil removed, so that all could see who his bride was, so Christ will bring His Church out of heaven in His Second Coming at the conclusion of the seven year Tribulation Period in full view of all who are alive, so that all can see who the true church is (Col. 3:4)

BIBLE STUDY MANUALS: JEWISH MARRIAGE CUSTOMS
I read this article in the Friends of Israel publication "Israel, My Glory" in 1976. It is also a chapter in Dr. Renald Showers' book "Maranatha Our Lord, Come!" which is a definitive study on the Rapture of the Church.
 
B

BradC

Guest
#25
This is my opinion, knowing that the goodness of God leads men to repentance and the rapture of the church is an act of God's goodness, when that happens many who have already heard the gospel and have been under conviction of the Spirit will repent, believe and be saved because of what has been witnessed to them through the scriptures as a measure of grace and through fear (Jude 1:23) while others will only be hardened even more through unbelief (Rom 9:18). The catching away of the saints (both of the living and the dead in Christ) will have a tremendous impact for the gospel because it will confirm what they have heard concerning Christ and the church and because the word that has been sent through the preaching of the gospel will not return void (Is 55:11).

I believe it will bear fruit, even after the rapture of the church body. Not only are we to be comforted that the dead in Christ will rise together with the living in the clouds of the air to be with Christ, but that those who have heard the word of the gospel we have preached will also bear fruit unto God during the time of the tribulation period. There will be continued hope through the gospel and the conviction of the Holy Spirit during that time, who also will raise up 144,000 of the children of Israel to be washed in the blood of the Lamb and to bear witness of that blood to help others overcome the world by that blood (Rev 12:11).
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
17
0
#26
what no one realize is that the church ages is for us, the gentiles and as the laodicea church age is over which is in rev 3, and sadly no on even read to OP scripture can't say something else somewhere and another thing somewhere else it must add up and i showed you all that it will b the jews in the tribulation because they murdered the messiah and the 5th seal proved that
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
17
0
#27
honestly i don't know what bible everyone else is reading but it is in the bible and i see it, before when i didn't had the holy spirit i was clueless to the bible but now since God saved me everysingle thing is revealed through the holy spirit holy spirit gives knowledge and understanding, this isn't my theory it's the bible and the bible said the church will b caught up, it's amazing how everything adds up in the bible but no one sees it, when will the church b raptured after the fullness of the gentiles has come in, why would the jews b in the tribulation? because they are God's chosen people and they are guilty of killing the messiah and they said let his blood BE ON OUR HANDS AND OUR CHILDREN exactly what is happening, why wouldn't we be in the tribulation? we are born unbelievers we were clueless about all of this not our fault we were born unbelievers but when we receive the gift of the holy spirit we are secure and have knowledge of the things to come
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
17
0
#28
the biggest problem today is the scholars vs the holy spirit exactly what is happening, people who study the bible from top to bottom and are highly educated gonna only see their own theory while the holy spirit reveals what the scriptures and truly saying
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#30
and i don't care what man has to say i'm sticking to the word of God they can do whatever they want but i'm sticking to the word of God and the rapture won't be look how the movies show it, it will be invisible to the world, incorruptible is eternal the corruptible( flesh ) cannot see that because everything that is eternal is unseen
So no one would be able to see that they are gone? Do they lead a double life?

What about those Saints in the resurrection? Are they not good enough for the rapture?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#31
you didn't even read the thread did you, you just came into the thread with a mindset that said i was wrong and just wrote something else
Yeah, he just wrote what Matthew said.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#32
Here is where pre trib started:
In 1767, a Chilean-born Catholic Priest, Manuel de Lacunza y Diaz came to Imola, Italy, when the Jesuits were expelled from Spain because of their brutality. There he claimed to be a converted Jew named Rabbi Juan Jushafat Ben-Ezra. Under that alias, he wrote a 900 page book titled, The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty. Lacunza theorized that the Church would be taken to be with the Lord to escape the reign of Antichrist in the last 3-1/2 years of the age, some 45 days before Jesus’ final return to Earth. During that 45 days (while the Church was in heaven), God would pour out His wrath upon the wicked remaining on Earth.
In 1828, "Glory and Majesty" was translated into English by a radical cultist London preacher named Edward Irving. Lacunza’s views could have died there, for most in England saw Irving as a heretic.
At the
same time Margaret MacDonald from Port Glasgow, Scotland, claimed she received divine revelations from God about a rapture. According to MacPherson, Miss Margaret had occultic ties, including a friendship with a girl who was into psychic powers and automatic writing. She sent her vision in a letter to Irving and, shortly thereafter, her revelation showed up in print. In September, 1830, The Morning Watch, a periodical put out by Irving’s church, published, "Commentary on the Epistles to the Seven Churches in the Apocalypse."(1)
According to James Whisler (2), the MacDonald clan was intimately associated with the Knights Templar - Margaret’s hometown being in one of the main areas that the Templars sailed to and settled in when they left France. He added, these "Satanic bloodlines" often chose the Christian religion as a cover to hide their origins and their true religion.
About the same time as Margaret Macdonald’s vision, John Nelson Darby was playing with the dispensationalist idea of dividing history into ages or "dispensations." Many prophecy teachers of today credit John Darby with the origin of these teachings because he was a well-educated man who authored many books. In fact, Darby went to see Margaret and her family shortly after she gained notoriety for her vision, and in later years, claimed them as his own.
With financial backing, the "vision" spread
Darby then headed out, promoting, improvising and adding to his new doctrine. He came to America several times and traveled all across the country to preach dispensation. As "luck" would have it, there always seemed to be wealthy benefactors nearby. This included men like eccentric banker Henry Drummond, who was involved from the beginning, making his resources available to Irving’s church in London and continuing to support the movement. Researcher Robert L. Pierce noted "…Darby’s unusual mobility, for his day and time and his seeming lack of financial problems."

Even Scofield after getting out of prison helped promote this lie from the Catholic Jesuits.

It is supposed to have originated with Francisco Ribera (1537-1591)
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#33
lol there is nothing to study, the holy spirit reveals the mystery of the entire bible, maybe you need to pray and ask for spiritual understanding
I did and it referred me to this...

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#34
No believer with the Holy Spirit will be deceived by the enemy's games. We can discern between truth and error. No believer will be lost either, since Christ is the author and finisher of our faith.
Luk 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Jesus warned us we could be deceived.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

It is this "I can't be deceived attitude that will cause the majority to be deceived.


Be careful when attributing something good with something evil. The catching away of the saints is not a satanic lie. Scripture speaks of the saints being changed and being caught up to meet Christ in the clouds, so it will happen, it's only the timing of it that's open to debate. Antichrist is revealed before Christ's second coming, but the saints return with Christ.

There's also a connection between the ancient Jewish weddings and the manner in which Christ will return for His church. The groom would take his bride to the wedding chamber for 7 days, a place prepared for her in his father's house. He could go for his bride only when his father approved. If the bridegroom was asked when the wedding was to be, he might well say "it is not for me to know, only my father knows".

Anyway, the end time deception will fool many that are lost, many will perish because they didn't receive the love of the truth that they might be saved. The rapture has nothing to do with the end time deception. The lost don't believe in a rapture anyway, so how could they be deceived by that.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Here He warns His very disciples that they could be deceived. The many will not come saying believe in the Devil, they will say "Jesus is the Christ" and will deceive many.

This doctrine of a rapture will cause much heartache for those who believe they will be "raptured" away only to find themselves in the Great Tribulation suffering horribly.
 
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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#35
honestly i don't know what bible everyone else is reading but it is in the bible and i see it, before when i didn't had the holy spirit i was clueless to the bible but now since God saved me everysingle thing is revealed through the holy spirit holy spirit gives knowledge and understanding, this isn't my theory it's the bible and the bible said the church will b caught up, it's amazing how everything adds up in the bible but no one sees it, when will the church b raptured after the fullness of the gentiles has come in, why would the jews b in the tribulation? because they are God's chosen people and they are guilty of killing the messiah and they said let his blood BE ON OUR HANDS AND OUR CHILDREN exactly what is happening, why wouldn't we be in the tribulation? we are born unbelievers we were clueless about all of this not our fault we were born unbelievers but when we receive the gift of the holy spirit we are secure and have knowledge of the things to come
Josh, I write this out of love and concern, but if you see it and everyone else doesn't, maybe that should tell you something.
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
17
0
#36
Josh, I write this out of love and concern, but if you see it and everyone else doesn't, maybe that should tell you something.
it does [h=3]Matthew 7:21[/h]King James Version (KJV)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.



[h=3]John 16:13[/h]King James Version (KJV)

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.





 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
17
0
#37
if i see it and i know God changed me and made me this way, the question is why can't you see it? and there is one spirit everyone baptized in the holy spirit receive one spirit and one knowledge, so why can't you see it?
 

Radius

Senior Member
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
180
63
#38
Josh my man.... Just to turn from sin to God is ALREADYT a great tribulation.... The FLESH FIGHTS HARD...

But let me show you one Scripture... For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved:
but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.


Actually God shortened the days of the tribulation, FOR THE SAKE OF THE ELECT THAT ARE STILL HERE IN THE TRIBULATION...

Sorry to do it here on the forum, but maybe you and I can help more brothers to STAY STRONG IN FAITH... the TRIBULATION SHALL NOT BE ABOVE OUR LORD'S GRACE!!!!
Couldn't these Christians be the ones who get saved AFTER the rapture that were left behind, but now believe?
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
1,960
7
0
#39
Josh, I write this out of love and concern, but if you see it and everyone else doesn't, maybe that should tell you something.
Add to that it is quite new as to history. Where is the historical account of this from the beginning. If the early Church taught it, it would have been quite apparent.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#40
Couldn't these Christians be the ones who get saved AFTER the rapture that were left behind, but now believe?
They are believers that come to know Christ after the rapture. They are for the most part Jewish believers who now proclaim the coming of the expected Messiah. Messiah will now come as they expected Him the first time. He will come in great power and glory to save Israel from destruction.

The times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled and the wild olive that was graft in will now be broken as the natural branch was broken before. The natural branch will now be graft back in.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For the cause of Christ
Roger