Is there such a thing as an atheist?

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Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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I've been talking about the Hebrew cosmology and you have tried to turn the discussion away from this to evolution. Genesis one describes a flat earth with a sky that is domed and hard as cast metal that God can walk upon.
I have never thought that Genesis teaches a flat earth either, You'll need to show me how/where you are getting that.
 
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Sirk

Guest
No, the whole bible points to Jesus - From Eden to Revelation.
This is right. The whole point of the bible is the unity in purpose of pointing to Jesus. 66 Books by some 40 different people all talking about the Word made flesh.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
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Jesus is not named in the Old Testament and there are no references to him.
Allusions to the Jesus, the Messiah, begin with Genesis 3:15.

Cycel said:
The messianic movement was looking for a Jewish king from the house of David to sit on the throne and rule. That never happened.
Genealogies of Jesus were recorded in Matthew and Luke. Jesus was descended from the royal line of David. Jewish people then could still trace their ancestry. That ability has been lost.

Jesus came the first time as a meek and suffering servant in fulfillment of Psalm 22, Isaiah 53 and other passages. Jesus will come again as a conquering king and Messiah.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
The name Jesus (Aramaic Yēshua˓, Greek Iēsous) means “God is salvation” in Hebrew. Jesus is named all through the Old testament.

For example, when Simeon came to the Temple, led there by the Holy Spirit, and took the baby Yeshua in his arms, he said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation [YESHUA (Jesus)] (Luke 2:29-30). Not only did his eyes see God's Salvation in Yesuha Jesus but he felt Him and touched Him. His believing heart beat with joy and assurance as he felt the loving heart of God throbbing in the heart of the holy prophesied infant Yeshua.

As Jesus Himself stated in John 5:39, “You [Jewish people] diligently study the Scriptures [which at that time were the 39 books of the Tanak/Old Testament].... These are the Scriptures that testify about me.”

In Luke 24:25-27 "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory? And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, [Jesus] explained to them what was said in all the [Old Testament] Scriptures concerning himself."

King David predicted the resurrection of Jesus back in 1000 B.C. as he, too, saw what was ahead, namely, that Jesus would not be “abandon[ed]... to the grave, nor [would he] let his Holy One see decay” (Ps 16:8-11; Acts 2:30- 31).

Jesus in the Old Testament
Prophecies Jesus - 44 Messianic Prophecies Jesus Fulfilled

Jesus (e.g. Yeshua) is mentioned more than 150 times in the Old Testament. The apostle Paul even used the Tanakh to teach about Jesus: “[The leaders of the Jews] arranged to meet Paul on a certain day... From morning till evening he explained and declared to them the kingdom of God and tried to convince them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets” (Acts 28:23, NIV).

Read Daniel 3: Daniel 3 NASB and note Daniel 3:25 in Hebrew: Daniel 3:25 Hebrew Text Analysis demah

Many scholarly books have been written with respect to Jesus in the Old Testament. Jesus was both present and prophesied about all through the Old Testament. It is a blatantly false assertion to state that "Jesus is not named in the Old Testament and there are no references to him." <-- FALSE.


Allusions to the Jesus, the Messiah, begin with Genesis 3:15. Genealogies of Jesus were recorded in Matthew and Luke. Jesus was descended from the royal line of David. Jewish people then could still trace their ancestry. That ability has been lost. Jesus came the first time as a meek and suffering servant in fulfillment of Psalm 22, Isaiah 53 and other passages. Jesus will come again as a conquering king and Messiah.
 
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phil112

Guest
The name Jesus (Aramaic Yēshua˓, Greek Iēsous) means “God is salvation” in Hebrew. Jesus is named all through the Old testament.....................................
According to Strong's, Iesous does not translate to "God is salvation". Although clearly there are many references to Christ, He is never "named" in the old teastament.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Yes He is. You are wrong. I've already refuted your false assertion.

"The name Iēsous (‘Jesus’) is the Greek form of the Hebrew name yēšûa˒, a later form of yehâšûa˒ (‘Joshua’; ‘Yahweh helps/is salvation’), which is formed from the root yš˒ (see Acts 7:45; Heb. 4:8 where Iēsous refers to Joshua, the successor of Moses; and Matt. 1:21, which links the name ‘Jesus’ with his role as ‘Saviour’)."

Source: New dictionary of biblical theology. 2000 (T. D. Alexander & B. S. Rosner, Ed.) (electronic ed.). Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press.

"Beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He [Jesus] interpreted for them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures." (Luke 24:27).

In Acts 1:21 we find the juxtaposition of the absolute form of Lord with the name Jesus (ho kyrios Iēsous), a phenomenon which occurs regularly in the Pauline epistles (cf. also Acts 15:11; 20:35). AND, we also find Old Testament passages referring to Yahweh as Lord now being applied to Jesus (Acts 2:25 using Ps 16:8–11). And, note that in Acts 2:34–35 we have yet another use of Psalm 110:1 referring to Jesus, this time by Peter.

Etc... etc... etc...

The fish became a special symbol for early Christians because the letters of the Greek word IXTHUS formed an acrostic for the initials of several common names for Jesus: Iēsous, Xristos, Theou Hyios, Sōtēr (Jesus, Christ, Son of God, Savior).

Note this was in an age where words were regarded not as merely arbitrary symbols, but as repositories of deeper, secret sense, discernible by the learned, acrostics held special significance and revealed deeper meanings.

One suggested starting point for you would be to read 'Jesus and the Old Testament' which R T France published in 1992.


According to Strong's, Iesous does not translate to "God is salvation". Although clearly there are many references to Christ, He is never "named" in the old teastament.
 
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jkalyna

Guest
Don't think so, though the creator is not believed in, God could be replaced with idols to worship, even the stuff under the bed, or the mattress. God is the only God that is a real God, everything else could be from legumes, to a grain of sand. Even spagetti. Try praying to smelly spagetti, and where's the sand washed away, oh sorry dude,,your out of luck,,, :) :)
 

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Sirk

Guest
Truthfully if a person is intellectually honest, they cannot say with 100% certainty that there is no God. The evidence just doesn't support it. Scientific or otherwise. Therefore, a person cannot be honest with themselves and wear the atheist label simultaneously.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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Truthfully if a person is intellectually honest, they cannot say with 100% certainty that there is no God. The evidence just doesn't support it. Scientific or otherwise. Therefore, a person cannot be honest with themselves and wear the atheist label simultaneously.
Sorry but you walked into this....

Truthfully if a person is intellectually honest, they cannot say with 100% certainty that there is "A" God. The evidence just doesn't support it. Scientific or otherwise. Therefore, a person cannot be honest with themselves and wear the "gnostic theist" label simultaneously.
 
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Sirk

Guest
Sorry but you walked into this....

Truthfully if a person is intellectually honest, they cannot say with 100% certainty that there is "A" God. The evidence just doesn't support it. Scientific or otherwise. Therefore, a person cannot be honest with themselves and wear the "gnostic theist" label simultaneously.
Ha! Nice. From the most massive expanse of space to the minutiae of the smallest particle, to the precision mechanics of the aforementioned plus the mystery of what holds it all together screams for a designer behind it all.
 
Feb 16, 2014
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Ha! Nice. From the most massive expanse of space to the minutiae of the smallest particle, to the precision mechanics of the aforementioned plus the mystery of what holds it all together screams for a designer behind it all.
No it doesn't.

You're arguing from ignorance. "We don't know, therefore it must have been God. Therefore we know it was God."
 
Dec 9, 2013
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Ha! Nice. From the most massive expanse of space to the minutiae of the smallest particle, to the precision mechanics of the aforementioned plus the mystery of what holds it all together screams for a designer behind it all.
That is your opinion, because of that you think it is more likely that a "God" exists, hence you are a theist.

In my opinion I think all of what you posted screams for more explanations and possibly something else out there, because of that I think it is more likely that "God" does not exist, hence I am an atheist.

Both of us are agnostic in that God can neither be proved or disproved 100%
 
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Sirk

Guest
Of course it does silly. You cannot have it both ways. Entropy and evolution are opposed to each other.
 
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Sirk

Guest
That is your opinion, because of that you think it is more likely that a "God" exists, hence you are a theist.

In my opinion I think all of what you posted screams for more explanations and possibly something else out there, because of that I think it is more likely that "God" does not exist, hence I am an atheist.

Both of us are agnostic in that God can neither be proved or disproved 100%
I think that's the point. God doesn't want a co dependent relationship with his creation nor does he want an independent one. He wants an interdependent one and that requires a measure of faith and hope.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,677
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You're arguing from ignorance. "We don't know, therefore it must have been God. Therefore we know it was God."
isn't arguing against a Creator just as much out of ignorance of God?

but we've known God, and are known by Him. there is no 'natural cause' that can antecede God. the universe itself teaches us that there is nothing ex nihlio and that no effect is without cause. willfully denying a Creator isn't far removed from securing for ourselves eternal ignorance, is it?

(did i just argue agnosticism > atheism?)
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
Agreed, who are you claiming is being irrational?
Anyone who rejects God. It is pretty clear that God exists, to set Him aside because of the 'lack of evidence' on their part is not only ignorance, but also suppressing the truth in unrighteousness and arrogance. It is a natural thing to believe in a Creator, simply because God built it in man and in creation. Even if men suppress it in making an idol, worshiping creatures, making up mythologies, or plain out reject Him out of hate shows that man is 'without excuse' of a divine existence.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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Anyone who rejects God. It is pretty clear that God exists, to set Him aside because of the 'lack of evidence' on their part is not only ignorance, but also suppressing the truth in unrighteousness and arrogance. It is a natural thing to believe in a Creator, simply because God built it in man and in creation. Even if men suppress it in making an idol, worshiping creatures, making up mythologies, or plain out reject Him out of hate shows that man is 'without excuse' of a divine existence.
Ok I do not agree with you but respect your opinion.

As long as you don't say I'm irrational for thinking "something came from nothing" because that is irrational and I do not believe that at all.
Something came from something, the difference is I do not think its "something came from someone(God)"