NEVER SIN AGAIN!

[KJV1611]

We know that Jesus did not sin, for the scriptures say that.

We do however still sin, even when born again, and yes Paul does say spiritually he does not sin but the body does sin. Therefore he still does things he shouldn't.

Sinning after being born again part only applies if you consider that as when you have a change in mind/heart.

Others look at it this way:
Born of water and spirit; the water ( natural birth in the flesh ), spirit ( when we are transformed into our spiritual bodies )

Yes Jesus did not sin, and WHEN we are born again, we will not sin either because we will be like him. The seed is in us now, but the birth has not taken place yet.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

There are two literal and very tangible births that take place in a believer, a physical birth and a just as tangible spiritual birth. The spiritual birth yields a spiritual body. We do not have spiritual bodies yet... we have not been born again of the Spirit, but when we are, we will have a spirit body.

I know this is hard to understand because everyone is taught that you are born again at salvation but that does not line up with scripture. If we were already born again, we would not sin. Why wont we sin after we are born again? Because we will have put on incorruption. We will be born into that incorruptible spiritual body.

 

[KJV1611]

We do not sin when truly born again
that is false.

thats how you now you are born again

if we fall away then we sin we have an advocate and we need to repent and be born again

repent means you gqave up that sin and wont do it again

we definitely need to repent it is all through the bible

2Thewaters, trust me you still sin.

 

[Kerry]

come on 1611 had more faith in you. maybe you should read Romans 7 in the NIV so you could understand. LOL

 

[gotime]

The Romans 7 man is unconverted, a slave to sin. read the words used.

 

[gotime]

Those who think that the Romans 7 man is saved ask yourself this?

Are we saved while still being slaves to sin?

Rom 7:15 ...but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Is the carnal man saved?

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

no.

Is the Romans 7 man delivered or in need of deliverance?

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

clearly in need of deliverance.

So if that is your walk then you are in trouble.

Jesus is the answer.

 

[Kerry]

Those who think that the Romans 7 man is saved ask yourself this?

Are we saved while still being slaves to sin?

Rom 7:15 ...but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Is the carnal man saved?

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

no.

Is the Romans 7 man delivered or in need of deliverance?

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

clearly in need of deliverance.

So if that is your walk then you are in trouble.

Tell me how Saul could have wrote this before the road to Damascus?

 

[gotime]

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[gotime]

Tell me how Saul could have wrote this before the road to Damascus?

I did not say He did. you assume that Paul is trying to speak of His current experience but he is not. this is seen in chapter 8.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

notice the man who needs deliverance form death is a captive to the "law of sin".

yet notice what he says a few verses into 8.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

notice Paul says "me" free from "the law of sin and death.

Paul is illustrating what a carnal unsaved person is like and then leads us to the answer in Jesus.

From slave to law of sin to free from law of sin.

 

[Kerry]

Yadda yadda yadda, yall drink your beer and listen to so called country music and when your children have had enough send them to me or some one like me. Theirs a tear in my beer and I'm crying for you dear. Yeah, yeah , yeah.

 

[gotime]

The change from man who needs deliverance from slavery to sin in the flesh and the man who is free in the Spirit from the law of sin. is marked by this.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Jesus is what makes the difference and the change from slave to free.

 

[gotime]

Did you know that there is only one other place where that word Wretched is found in the bible?

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Its hear:

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Its an unsaved person who thinks they are saved but are not.

 

[KJV1611]

Those who think that the Romans 7 man is saved ask yourself this?

Are we saved while still being slaves to sin?

Rom 7:15 ...but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Is the carnal man saved?

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

no.

Is the Romans 7 man delivered or in need of deliverance?

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

clearly in need of deliverance.

So if that is your walk then you are in trouble.

Jesus is the answer.

Are you saying that Paul when he wrote the book of Romans was not saved?
Paul said that HE HIMSELF was carnal and sold under sin.

 

[Kerry]

Are you saying that Paul when he wrote the book of Romans was not saved?
Paul said that HE HIMSELF was carnal and sold under sin.

His name was Paul was it not and not Saul.

 

[gotime]

Are you saying that Paul when he wrote the book of Romans was not saved?
Paul said that HE HIMSELF was carnal and sold under sin.

No I am not saying Paul was not saved. read the words He wrote he used the word "I" yet what he said could not have been current because he says in chapter 8 that he is free from the condition in Romans 7.

You can't be free and slave at the same time, this tells us that Paul was using himself to illustrate a point. When the reader reads it the I is for the reader. Paul never says "I Paul" he leaves the I for the reader.

Paul said in the chapter 6:

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

So sin is not to have dominion over us and we are slaves to the one we obey.

Tell me who does the Romans 7 man obey?

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

answer: sin a slave to Sin. The very thing Paul said Grace and Faith free us from in the chapters before.

If you read what Paul says in Romans 7 and can say yes that is me. then Paul would tell you that in Jesus you can be free from that.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.



Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Hope that Helps, pray and ask God to show you and then read Romans 6,7, 8 carefully and you will see something wonderful. I did and it changed my whole life, now I know true freedom in Christ.

 

[Kerry]

You must go through Romans seven to get to Romans eight. No if's and or but's. Because Romans 7 leads you into the law of the Spirit and you cannot have Romans 8 until you are under the law of the Spirit.

 

[gotime]

I might testify to what the Lord has done for me through these very scriptures.

I had been in churches all my life, I was not teaching scripture and preaching at churches and one day while I was cleaning a class room with a friend of mine. they challenged me on this Romans 7 man.

He said that it was an example of unconversion and I said no that is the christian life. but the Spirit touched me while we spoke and so I decided to go study it again.

So that night I prayed to God to show me the truth and to be honest I was partly expecting to be vindicated in my position that it was a saved person. So I got up real early in the morning about 2 am when my kids were asleep.

I prayed and prayed that God would give me understanding, so then I read Romans 1 - 9. and suddenly I saw things I had never saw before so I said ok Father lets do this again tomorrow.

The next morning early in the morning I did the same thing only this time I focused on 6-8. and the Spirit of the Lord convicted me very strongly and I suddenly saw myself as the I in that passage but I did not relate to the free me but the salved I.

I left the house and went out into the bush and wept before God and confessed that all this time I thought I was saved and was teaching others that they were also in the Romans 7 condition. I don't know how long I prayed but I made sure that everything I could think of was confessed to God. when I opened my eyes it was after sun rise.

I don't know how long I was there but I felt like weight had been lifted of my physically. I began silently to walk back to the car. when about 10 meters from where I was praying I became aware of this amazing presence and I fell to my knees and began to praise God aloud, it was almost like praise was drawn from my mouth. the wind picked up and swirled around me. and as I praised God I was suddenly silenced and for the first time and not since I heard a voice that seemed to come from every direction at once. It was like the voice was everywhere and God said "I am with you, now walk in my ways".

Since that time I have found a power in Christ that transforms us. I can now say that I do not relate to the Romans 7 man anymore. That experience if foreign to me now. But I do relate to the Romans 8 man. Jesus makes us free indeed. and I have been and am growing in this experience day by day.

Praise God.

 

[gotime]

correction It should say I was teaching scripture and preaching. sorry.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I did not say He did. you assume that Paul is trying to speak of His current experience but he is not. this is seen in chapter 8.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

notice the man who needs deliverance form death is a captive to the "law of sin".

He delights in the law of God after the "inward man" - the "inward man" - the new man - And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. [Ephesians] That which was created in us once we are born again. The flesh does not change when we are born again . . . Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [Galatians 3]
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

yet notice what he says a few verses into 8.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

notice Paul says "me" free from "the law of sin and death.

Paul is illustrating what a carnal unsaved person is like and then leads us to the answer in Jesus.

From slave to law of sin to free from law of sin.

We are free from the law of sin and death because we have been born again of God's Spirit. It is in the "inner man" that we are free from the law of sin and death but we still battle in the flesh. The Spirit is indeed willing but the flesh is weak.
"Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." The "warring" is the flesh against the Spirit.
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 

[BradC]

I didn't do anything I needed to repent of today or yesterday. I don't have to lie, I don't have to cheat, I don't have to lust, I don't have to drink, I don't have to smoke, I don't have to be greedy, I don't have to swear. I don't have to sin. There is power in Jesus Christ He is not only my Savior, He is my Deliverer. How does it go? He defeated the last enemy? what am I in bonds too? surely not to sin. To each their own, surely everyone will make up their own minds. As for me and mine, we follow Christ.

Any area of our life that God calls us to take up a cross and deny self is an area of lust concerning the flesh outside the will of God. Lust is anything we desire outside the will of God and when lust is conceived it bringeth forth sin (James 1:15). Because of the flesh and the desires of the heart we have a tendency to covet and lust after things that we may even call the will of God. A lustful heart does not always get involved with things that have an appearance of being unclean. A lustful mind often wanders when the word is being preached because the mind can not stay on God. When we murmur and complain it is because of lust in the heart that has not been crucified. When we hear a message from God saying this is the way, walk in it, and we turn from it and go our own way by saying that is not for me or what I have been called to do, that is covetousness. We covet those things that bring us pleasure through the desires of the flesh rather then God's way through the direction of the Spirit. God continues to prove us so to see if we are giving place to the flesh or if we are desiring Him and the things of God.

Satan is a master at hiding secret motives in the heart that eventually turn and rebel against the plan of God. When we react in any situation or detail of life, God is revealing the motive of the way in which we are going. At that moment we can turn to Him, humble ourselves and receive grace in the plan of God or we can continue to react and accuse or blame others for what has happened. A person whose heart is occupied with lustful practices will always hold others responsible for what happens to them and will never allow blame to fall upon themselves and put it at the foot of the cross. A heart that covets will go outside the will of God to get what they desire not matter what it takes and fulfill it. The Israelites who were delivered from Egypt illustrate so much of this in scriptures when they were in the wilderness wandering for those (40) years and never entering into what God had promised. Anyone occupied with lust, being any desire outside the will of God, will never have the faith to enter into the promises of God and that reveals and leads to the sin of unbelief. Lusts of the flesh will always supplement faith through the Spirit and those desires of the flesh will take the place of the promises of God.

 

[gotime]

He delights in the law of God after the "inward man" - the "inward man" - the new man - And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. [Ephesians] That which was created in us once we are born again. The flesh does not change when we are born again . . . Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? [Galatians 3]
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

We are free from the law of sin and death because we have been born again of God's Spirit. It is in the "inner man" that we are free from the law of sin and death but we still battle in the flesh. The Spirit is indeed willing but the flesh is weak.
"Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." The "warring" is the flesh against the Spirit.
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

All very good but Paul makes it clear that through the Spirit we no longer walk according to the flesh:

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Galatians says this:

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

notice what you shall not do when you walk in the spirit? you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

we "walk" do, act, live, works of the spirit.

what was the Romans 7 man? was He in the Spirit or in the flesh? did He walk or do the things of the Spirit or fulfill the lusts of the flash?

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

"I am Carnal" "sold under sin"

That is not spiritual and free in Jesus is it.

then shows how He can not do good. is that spiritual?

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

"captive to the law of sin" Flesh winning out.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Needs to be delivered from death?

very clearly this is not a converted condition. Romans 7 is a carnal man as Paul straightly stated.

"I am carnal"

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

notice the carnal mind is against god because it is not subject to the law in fact can not be. what is the result of this?

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Was the Romans 7 man carnal? yes. was he subject to the law of God? no. he could not do it.

Anyone who thinks that Romans 7 is converted is ignoring what Paul actually says.