What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED believer?
- Thread starter Atwood
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The logic is without error; but you are illogical SeaBass.
[quote}Your premise requires that it takes both "a" AND "b" to get "c".[/quote]
False.
The given is If A & B, then C.
Another given is, if not A, then not C.
Logically one cannot deduce from that If not B, then not C.
This is logic 101.
Given: If a man consumes meat & juice, he has protein.
Given:If a man does not consume meat he does not have protein.
Fallacious conclusion: If a man does not consume juice, he does not have protein.
False, if a man consumes meat & juice, he has protein.
That does not make it impossible to have protein without juice.
Illogical SeaBass. Violation of very elementary logic.
False, neither my example, nor my logic, nor Mark 16:16 uses the word required after B, after baptism. If merely says if one believes and is baptized one is saved. And that would also be true if it said if one believes & whistles Dixie, he will be saved.
For only belief is essential.
So many times it is only belief/faith that saves.
No, I have it Christ's way, the only way. One way:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.
You can't have it both ways, Seabass. If "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" results in "you shall be saved," then nothing else can be essential. You cannot have both salvation by faith alone & throw in human works.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Gal 3:
This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:22ff
But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
Gal 5:5-6
For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:
Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
Heb 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
1 Pet 1:3ff
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
[quote}Your premise requires that it takes both "a" AND "b" to get "c".[/quote]
False.
The given is If A & B, then C.
Another given is, if not A, then not C.
Logically one cannot deduce from that If not B, then not C.
This is logic 101.
Given: If a man consumes meat & juice, he has protein.
Given:If a man does not consume meat he does not have protein.
Fallacious conclusion: If a man does not consume juice, he does not have protein.
False, if a man consumes meat & juice, he has protein.
That does not make it impossible to have protein without juice.
Illogical SeaBass. Violation of very elementary logic.
False, neither my example, nor my logic, nor Mark 16:16 uses the word required after B, after baptism. If merely says if one believes and is baptized one is saved. And that would also be true if it said if one believes & whistles Dixie, he will be saved.
For only belief is essential.
So many times it is only belief/faith that saves.
No, I have it Christ's way, the only way. One way:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.
You can't have it both ways, Seabass. If "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" results in "you shall be saved," then nothing else can be essential. You cannot have both salvation by faith alone & throw in human works.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Gal 3:
This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:22ff
But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
Gal 5:5-6
For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:
Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
Heb 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
1 Pet 1:3ff
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
SeaBass continues to fail to find a verse that condemns unbaptized believers.
1 Cor 12:13 is valid for today. The Body of Christ exists today; the only way in is by Spirit baptism. He said on this rock He would build His Church & that the gates of Hell would not prevail vs the Church. To deny Spirit baptism is to deny the existence of the Church.
Now how do you prove that that one baptism is for today?
But the one baptism of Eph 4:5 is Spirit baptism. As it is the only baptism that all believers have and it is the baptism that makes all believers one in the Body of Christ. And no water is mentioned.
So what? How do you prove that what the eunuch did & Paul did is commanded for today -- if you want to be ridiculous.
But if we are discussing what baptism means in the NT, what does today have to do with it?
1 Cor 12:13 is valid for today. The Body of Christ exists today; the only way in is by Spirit baptism. He said on this rock He would build His Church & that the gates of Hell would not prevail vs the Church. To deny Spirit baptism is to deny the existence of the Church.
Now how do you prove that that one baptism is for today?
But the one baptism of Eph 4:5 is Spirit baptism. As it is the only baptism that all believers have and it is the baptism that makes all believers one in the Body of Christ. And no water is mentioned.
So what? How do you prove that what the eunuch did & Paul did is commanded for today -- if you want to be ridiculous.
But if we are discussing what baptism means in the NT, what does today have to do with it?
a multitude of other scripture indicating that faith & confession of the Lordship of Christ is what is necessary for salvation, and the lack of any biblical statement that H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism is a work upon which salvation is conditional shows that Atwood's premise is true. Mark 16:16 does not say "unbaptized believers are condemned"
that doesn't mean that we should not be baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O as is the church's custom.
according to God's mercy, belief in your heart & public confession have been required of us.
H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism is exactly ceremonial public confession.
all scripture agrees that it is God's mercy by which we are saved, not a quid-pro-quo of obedience and earned reward.
the true immersion, washing, regeneration and renewal that work salvation are spiritual things, not earthly things. things that God does by His Spirit, not things that we do by H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.
if God has commanded it, who am i to say we shouldn't do it? i do not say that. no one else in the thread has said that.
but saying that H[SUB]2[/SUB]O guarantees or is necessary for our salvation is placing the created thing above the Creator, and is not borne out by careful consideration of the Word.
what is the earnest of our salvation?
it is the Spirit. and the book records the Spirit given without baptism, after baptism, before baptism, and at the time of baptism in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.
we must not look at H[SUB]2[/SUB]O dipping as a miraculous and magical act, but the answer of a good conscience to God in the light of what God, and God alone, has done.
that doesn't mean that we should not be baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O as is the church's custom.
according to God's mercy, belief in your heart & public confession have been required of us.
H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism is exactly ceremonial public confession.
all scripture agrees that it is God's mercy by which we are saved, not a quid-pro-quo of obedience and earned reward.
the true immersion, washing, regeneration and renewal that work salvation are spiritual things, not earthly things. things that God does by His Spirit, not things that we do by H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.
if God has commanded it, who am i to say we shouldn't do it? i do not say that. no one else in the thread has said that.
but saying that H[SUB]2[/SUB]O guarantees or is necessary for our salvation is placing the created thing above the Creator, and is not borne out by careful consideration of the Word.
what is the earnest of our salvation?
it is the Spirit. and the book records the Spirit given without baptism, after baptism, before baptism, and at the time of baptism in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.
we must not look at H[SUB]2[/SUB]O dipping as a miraculous and magical act, but the answer of a good conscience to God in the light of what God, and God alone, has done.
K
Was Abraham, Issac or Jacob baptized? are they in heaven? Did the Jews call Him the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. When the Sadducee's confronted Jesus about a woman that had been married 7 times legally and who's wife would she be in heaven. Jesus said that we are not given in marriage in heaven. Then said but you err, is He not called the God Abraham? God is the God of the living and not the dead. So when were they baptized?
posth, I mostly agree with your post, but this issue of confession is something I ask you to reconsider. It is very rare that confession seems a requirement for salvation. Many, many times believe/faith is the only thing required of man.
Also this "Lordship of Christ" is problematical. I think that most of the confusion on that one is realizing that it is not "Lordship", but YHWHship. What I mean is that in such a verse as Rom 10:13, for whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved, kyrios does not mean "boss" (adonai) but is the NT representation of YHWH, the tetragrammaton in the OT. That is clear from the fact that Rom 10:13 is quoting Joel where in Heb it is YHWH, the personal name of God.
Confess does not necessarily mean a public confession before men. Confess = homologeo in Greek has 2 main elements: hom(o) = same; log = saying. In "confessing" one says the same thing or agrees. Thus the confession is to God, the agreement with God that Jesus is YHWH. In other words, Christ must be properly defined when trusted as Savior, not as Michael the archangel, not as a mere good teacher, not as Jesús the Mexican car mechanic.
A man on a desert island could hear the gospel on the radio & be saved with no one around to hear a confession. Also, such a confession would be a human work, and human works cannot be saved. But to be in agreement with God about Who Christ is, is essential in defining the object of the faith.
That explanation makes sense of the rare use of confession in a salvation context where calling on the name of the LORD (in faith) is advised.
There really is not a grocery list of things to do to be saved -- not by man anyway; God could have quite a list of things He had to do to save us.
We are not called upon to promise God that we will treat Christ as Lord to be saved (boss), that would be salvation by works. Salvation is a free gift received by faith, not for the promise of works. There is a fine line here. Of course if one has Christ properly defined then that would include that He is the boss of the universe, very God. But it is believers (men already saved) who are called upon in Rom 6 to present themselves to God; we are to present our members as slaved to His service. And I don't object to telling persons at the point of salvation to accept Christ as Lord, as that is a constant imperative on all men in all places & times. He is Lord of all, and to be treated that way -- only such treatment doesn't save, as salvation is of grace.
Also this "Lordship of Christ" is problematical. I think that most of the confusion on that one is realizing that it is not "Lordship", but YHWHship. What I mean is that in such a verse as Rom 10:13, for whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved, kyrios does not mean "boss" (adonai) but is the NT representation of YHWH, the tetragrammaton in the OT. That is clear from the fact that Rom 10:13 is quoting Joel where in Heb it is YHWH, the personal name of God.
Confess does not necessarily mean a public confession before men. Confess = homologeo in Greek has 2 main elements: hom(o) = same; log = saying. In "confessing" one says the same thing or agrees. Thus the confession is to God, the agreement with God that Jesus is YHWH. In other words, Christ must be properly defined when trusted as Savior, not as Michael the archangel, not as a mere good teacher, not as Jesús the Mexican car mechanic.
A man on a desert island could hear the gospel on the radio & be saved with no one around to hear a confession. Also, such a confession would be a human work, and human works cannot be saved. But to be in agreement with God about Who Christ is, is essential in defining the object of the faith.
That explanation makes sense of the rare use of confession in a salvation context where calling on the name of the LORD (in faith) is advised.
There really is not a grocery list of things to do to be saved -- not by man anyway; God could have quite a list of things He had to do to save us.
We are not called upon to promise God that we will treat Christ as Lord to be saved (boss), that would be salvation by works. Salvation is a free gift received by faith, not for the promise of works. There is a fine line here. Of course if one has Christ properly defined then that would include that He is the boss of the universe, very God. But it is believers (men already saved) who are called upon in Rom 6 to present themselves to God; we are to present our members as slaved to His service. And I don't object to telling persons at the point of salvation to accept Christ as Lord, as that is a constant imperative on all men in all places & times. He is Lord of all, and to be treated that way -- only such treatment doesn't save, as salvation is of grace.
As I posted to the posthuman, I would caution care in speaking of confession as saving someone. No human work saves, not giving public testimony.
So, Peaceful, I am not sure what you mean by confession -- and I don't want to fire a cannon ball at a canary bird. Perhaps you alread know what I am going to lay in your ear on this, but here it is:
It is very rare that confession seems a requirement for salvation. Many, many times believe/faith is the only thing required of man.
Also this "Lordship of Christ" is problematical. I think that most of the confusion on that one is realizing that it is not "Lordship", but YHWHship. What I mean is that in such a verse as Rom 10:13, for whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved, kyrios does not mean "boss" (adonai) but is the NT representation of YHWH, the tetragrammaton in the OT. That is clear from the fact that Rom 10:13 is quoting Joel where in Heb it is YHWH, the personal name of God.
Confess does not necessarily mean a public confession before men. Confess = homologeo in Greek has 2 main elements:
hom(o) = same;
log = saying.
In "confessing" one says the same thing or agrees. Thus the confession is to God, the agreement with God that Jesus is YHWH. In other words, Christ must be properly defined when trusted as Savior, not as Michael the archangel, not as a mere good teacher, not as Jesús the Mexican car mechanic.
A man on a desert island could hear the gospel on the radio & be saved with no one around to hear a confession. Also, such a confession would be a human work, and human works cannot be saved. But to be in agreement with God about Who Christ is, is essential in defining the object of the faith.
That explanation makes sense of the rare use of confession in a salvation context where calling on the name of the LORD (in faith) is advised.
There really is not a grocery list of things to do to be saved -- not by man anyway; God could have quite a list of things He had to do to save us.
We are not called upon to promise God that we will treat Christ as Lord to be saved (boss), that would be salvation by works. Salvation is a free gift received by faith, not for the promise of works. There is a fine line here. Of course if one has Christ properly defined then that would include that He is the boss of the universe, very God. But it is believers (men already saved) who are called upon in Rom 6 to present themselves to God; we are to present our members as slaves to His service. And I don't object to telling persons at the point of salvation to accept Christ as Lord, as that is a constant imperative on all men in all places & times. He is Lord of all, and to be treated that way -- only such treatment doesn't save, as salvation is of grace.
So, Peaceful, I am not sure what you mean by confession -- and I don't want to fire a cannon ball at a canary bird. Perhaps you alread know what I am going to lay in your ear on this, but here it is:
It is very rare that confession seems a requirement for salvation. Many, many times believe/faith is the only thing required of man.
Also this "Lordship of Christ" is problematical. I think that most of the confusion on that one is realizing that it is not "Lordship", but YHWHship. What I mean is that in such a verse as Rom 10:13, for whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved, kyrios does not mean "boss" (adonai) but is the NT representation of YHWH, the tetragrammaton in the OT. That is clear from the fact that Rom 10:13 is quoting Joel where in Heb it is YHWH, the personal name of God.
Confess does not necessarily mean a public confession before men. Confess = homologeo in Greek has 2 main elements:
hom(o) = same;
log = saying.
In "confessing" one says the same thing or agrees. Thus the confession is to God, the agreement with God that Jesus is YHWH. In other words, Christ must be properly defined when trusted as Savior, not as Michael the archangel, not as a mere good teacher, not as Jesús the Mexican car mechanic.
A man on a desert island could hear the gospel on the radio & be saved with no one around to hear a confession. Also, such a confession would be a human work, and human works cannot be saved. But to be in agreement with God about Who Christ is, is essential in defining the object of the faith.
That explanation makes sense of the rare use of confession in a salvation context where calling on the name of the LORD (in faith) is advised.
There really is not a grocery list of things to do to be saved -- not by man anyway; God could have quite a list of things He had to do to save us.
We are not called upon to promise God that we will treat Christ as Lord to be saved (boss), that would be salvation by works. Salvation is a free gift received by faith, not for the promise of works. There is a fine line here. Of course if one has Christ properly defined then that would include that He is the boss of the universe, very God. But it is believers (men already saved) who are called upon in Rom 6 to present themselves to God; we are to present our members as slaves to His service. And I don't object to telling persons at the point of salvation to accept Christ as Lord, as that is a constant imperative on all men in all places & times. He is Lord of all, and to be treated that way -- only such treatment doesn't save, as salvation is of grace.
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K
You call me a Pharisee, wrong assumption again.
You make false assumptions on people, and condemn others. Which is not the way of our Lord.
By doing those two things it seems you have areas that you still need to address in your own walk with the Lord.
Pharisees taught the law, but used it for their own personal gain. Perverted it.
Jesus told the people to do as they say ( taught the law ), but not do as they do (pervert and misuse it ).
Doing as the Lord commanded out of love for Him is not acting like a Pharisee, so sorry wrong assertion.
I know where I will be, standing with the rest of the sheep in front of our Lord. There is no uncertainty in my salvation.
But to not teach others of the dangers of willful sin, and to especially not teach to go by what the Lord said and canceling them out like they are not important or needed is dangerous.
It leads to some of the new age teaching happening today where they are teaching people they don't have to repent of their sins, confession is not needed, they are even going so far to saying Jesus is not even needed. They try to say as long as you live a good life, helping others and living a life of love you will still go to heaven even though you don't believe or know Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
I have never called my Lord a mere chance giver that you keep boasting about.
What you must realize is there is a big difference in doing works to earn salvation, and doing things out of love for the Lord that works hand and hand with salvation which is how I live.
[h=3]Matthew 6:1-4[/h]“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
[h=3]Colossians 3:17[/h] And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
[h=3]Galatians 6:9[/h] And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
[h=3]James 4:17[/h] So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
[h=3]Hebrews 10:24[/h] And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
[h=3]James 2:26[/h] For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
[h=3]Matthew 7:21-23[/h]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
[h=3]Philippians 2:13[/h] For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
[h=3]Titus 2:7-9[/h] Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us. Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,
[h=3]2 Timothy 3:17[/h] That the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
[h=3]James 1:27[/h] Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
[h=3]Micah 6:8[/h] He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
[h=3]Galatians 5:19-26[/h] Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
[h=3]Matthew 7:21[/h]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[h=3]Ephesians 2:8-9[/h] For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[h=3]Romans 10:9[/h] Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
[h=3]Ecclesiastes 12:13-14[/h] The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.
[h=3]Isaiah 41:17[/h] When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue is parched with thirst, I the Lord will answer them; I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
[h=3]Colossians 3:23[/h] Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,
[h=3]Luke 16:19-31[/h]“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
[h=3]Romans 16:19[/h] For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil.
[h=3]James 2:24[/h] Yousee that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
[h=3]Ephesians 2:10[/h] Forwe are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
[h=3]3 John 1:11[/h] Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God.
[h=3]1 Timothy 6:18[/h] They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,
[h=3]Romans 6:14[/h] For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
[h=3]Isaiah 8:20[/h] To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.
[h=3]Titus 3:14[/h] And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.
[h=3]Mark 16:15[/h] And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 10:31[/h] So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
[h=3]Psalm 34:13-14[/h] Keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking deceit. Turn away from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.
[h=3]Revelation 2:19[/h]“‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first.
[h=3]Ephesians 2:8-10[/h] For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
[h=3]Galatians 6:10[/h] So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.
[h=3]Matthew 6:24[/h]“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
[h=3]Isaiah 1:17[/h] Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.
[h=3]Ephesians 2:6-10[/h] And raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
[h=3]Acts 2:38[/h] And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[h=3]Luke 15:7[/h] Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
[h=3]Isaiah 64:6[/h] We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
[h=3]Ecclesiastes 3:1-8[/h] For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
[h=3]Psalm 37:3[/h] Trust in the Lord, and do good; dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 2:13[/h] And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
[h=3]John 3:16-17[/h]“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
[h=3]Matthew 25:34-40[/h] Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
[h=3]Psalm 83:18[/h] That they may know that you alone, whose name is the Lord, are the Most High over all the earth.
[h=3]Genesis 4:7[/h] If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.”
[h=3]1 Peter 2:12[/h] Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.
[h=3]Luke 10:29-37[/h] But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion.
[h=3]Acts 10:38[/h] How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
You make false assumptions on people, and condemn others. Which is not the way of our Lord.
By doing those two things it seems you have areas that you still need to address in your own walk with the Lord.
Pharisees taught the law, but used it for their own personal gain. Perverted it.
Jesus told the people to do as they say ( taught the law ), but not do as they do (pervert and misuse it ).
Doing as the Lord commanded out of love for Him is not acting like a Pharisee, so sorry wrong assertion.
I know where I will be, standing with the rest of the sheep in front of our Lord. There is no uncertainty in my salvation.
But to not teach others of the dangers of willful sin, and to especially not teach to go by what the Lord said and canceling them out like they are not important or needed is dangerous.
It leads to some of the new age teaching happening today where they are teaching people they don't have to repent of their sins, confession is not needed, they are even going so far to saying Jesus is not even needed. They try to say as long as you live a good life, helping others and living a life of love you will still go to heaven even though you don't believe or know Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
I have never called my Lord a mere chance giver that you keep boasting about.
What you must realize is there is a big difference in doing works to earn salvation, and doing things out of love for the Lord that works hand and hand with salvation which is how I live.
[h=3]Matthew 6:1-4[/h]“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
[h=3]Colossians 3:17[/h] And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
[h=3]Galatians 6:9[/h] And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
[h=3]James 4:17[/h] So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
[h=3]Hebrews 10:24[/h] And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
[h=3]James 2:26[/h] For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
[h=3]Matthew 7:21-23[/h]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
[h=3]Philippians 2:13[/h] For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
[h=3]Titus 2:7-9[/h] Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us. Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,
[h=3]2 Timothy 3:17[/h] That the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
[h=3]James 1:27[/h] Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
[h=3]Micah 6:8[/h] He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
[h=3]Galatians 5:19-26[/h] Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
[h=3]Matthew 7:21[/h]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[h=3]Ephesians 2:8-9[/h] For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[h=3]Romans 10:9[/h] Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
[h=3]Ecclesiastes 12:13-14[/h] The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.
[h=3]Isaiah 41:17[/h] When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue is parched with thirst, I the Lord will answer them; I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
[h=3]Colossians 3:23[/h] Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,
[h=3]Luke 16:19-31[/h]“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
[h=3]Romans 16:19[/h] For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil.
[h=3]James 2:24[/h] Yousee that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
[h=3]Ephesians 2:10[/h] Forwe are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
[h=3]3 John 1:11[/h] Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. Whoever does good is from God; whoever does evil has not seen God.
[h=3]1 Timothy 6:18[/h] They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,
[h=3]Romans 6:14[/h] For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
[h=3]Isaiah 8:20[/h] To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.
[h=3]Titus 3:14[/h] And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.
[h=3]Mark 16:15[/h] And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 10:31[/h] So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
[h=3]Psalm 34:13-14[/h] Keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking deceit. Turn away from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.
[h=3]Revelation 2:19[/h]“‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first.
[h=3]Ephesians 2:8-10[/h] For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
[h=3]Galatians 6:10[/h] So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.
[h=3]Matthew 6:24[/h]“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
[h=3]Isaiah 1:17[/h] Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.
[h=3]Ephesians 2:6-10[/h] And raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
[h=3]Acts 2:38[/h] And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[h=3]Luke 15:7[/h] Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
[h=3]Isaiah 64:6[/h] We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
[h=3]Ecclesiastes 3:1-8[/h] For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance; a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
[h=3]Psalm 37:3[/h] Trust in the Lord, and do good; dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 2:13[/h] And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
[h=3]John 3:16-17[/h]“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
[h=3]Matthew 25:34-40[/h] Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
[h=3]Psalm 83:18[/h] That they may know that you alone, whose name is the Lord, are the Most High over all the earth.
[h=3]Genesis 4:7[/h] If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.”
[h=3]1 Peter 2:12[/h] Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.
[h=3]Luke 10:29-37[/h] But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion.
[h=3]Acts 10:38[/h] How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
False.
The given is If A & B, then C.
Another given is, if not A, then not C.
Logically one cannot deduce from that If not B, then not C.
This is logic 101.
Given: If a man consumes meat & juice, he has protein.
Given:If a man does not consume meat he does not have protein.
Fallacious conclusion: If a man does not consume juice, he does not have protein.
False, if a man consumes meat & juice, he has protein.
That does not make it impossible to have protein without juice.
Illogical SeaBass. Violation of very elementary logic.
False, neither my example, nor my logic, nor Mark 16:16 uses the word required after B, after baptism. If merely says if one believes and is baptized one is saved. And that would also be true if it said if one believes & whistles Dixie, he will be saved.
For only belief is essential.
So many times it is only belief/faith that saves.
No, I have it Christ's way, the only way. One way:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.
You can't have it both ways, Seabass. If "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" results in "you shall be saved," then nothing else can be essential. You cannot have both salvation by faith alone & throw in human works.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Gal 3:
This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:22ff
But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
Gal 5:5-6
For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:
Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
Heb 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
1 Pet 1:3ff
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?[/QUOTE]
Again you have proven Atwoodism but have nothing of substance of what scripture actually means. It is NEVER ONLY faith. The lack of baptism (by water) is a sign of non-trust and non believing of an individual. John 3:5 which is in scripture but disagrees with Atwoodism makes it an absolute.
The given is If A & B, then C.
Another given is, if not A, then not C.
Logically one cannot deduce from that If not B, then not C.
This is logic 101.
Given: If a man consumes meat & juice, he has protein.
Given:If a man does not consume meat he does not have protein.
Fallacious conclusion: If a man does not consume juice, he does not have protein.
False, if a man consumes meat & juice, he has protein.
That does not make it impossible to have protein without juice.
Illogical SeaBass. Violation of very elementary logic.
False, neither my example, nor my logic, nor Mark 16:16 uses the word required after B, after baptism. If merely says if one believes and is baptized one is saved. And that would also be true if it said if one believes & whistles Dixie, he will be saved.
For only belief is essential.
So many times it is only belief/faith that saves.
No, I have it Christ's way, the only way. One way:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.
You can't have it both ways, Seabass. If "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" results in "you shall be saved," then nothing else can be essential. You cannot have both salvation by faith alone & throw in human works.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Gal 3:
This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh? 4 Did ye suffer so many things in vain? if it be indeed in vain. 5 He therefore that supplieth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 7 Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all the nations be blessed. 9 So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continues not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one who hangs on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:22ff
But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
Gal 5:5-6
For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love.
Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:
Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.
Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;
Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.
Heb 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
1 Pet 1:3ff
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: 8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?[/QUOTE]
Again you have proven Atwoodism but have nothing of substance of what scripture actually means. It is NEVER ONLY faith. The lack of baptism (by water) is a sign of non-trust and non believing of an individual. John 3:5 which is in scripture but disagrees with Atwoodism makes it an absolute.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) This is referring to being baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Scripture clearly states more than once that John truly baptized in water but Jesus would baptize in Holy Spirit. Same Greek word used - meaning immersion so what do we do? - there are two baptisms mentioned here - Do we keep water baptism and forget about the baptism that Jesus gives? You stick with your water - I choose to stick with Jesus' baptism.
Scripture clearly states more than once that John truly baptized in water but Jesus would baptize in Holy Spirit. Same Greek word used - meaning immersion so what do we do? - there are two baptisms mentioned here - Do we keep water baptism and forget about the baptism that Jesus gives? You stick with your water - I choose to stick with Jesus' baptism.
Romans 10:9,10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. . . . which I would relate to John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
How are we born of the Spirit? - by faith - how do we receive faith? - through hearing the word of God [Romans 10:17] - we hear the word of God and confess the same - what does the word of God say? - believe in him [Jesus Christ] whom God has sent [John 6:29]. Yes, salvation is a gift through faith by grace.
How are we born of the Spirit? - by faith - how do we receive faith? - through hearing the word of God [Romans 10:17] - we hear the word of God and confess the same - what does the word of God say? - believe in him [Jesus Christ] whom God has sent [John 6:29]. Yes, salvation is a gift through faith by grace.
K
John baptized with water for the remission of sins.
Lord Jesus now gives us that remission of sins, so the baptism that Jesus commands is still done in water. But it is a sign of a true believer in Christ, that they do this for their love of the Lord and sign of a clean conscious of the believer to walk properly as the Lord ask of us and to accept the Holy Spirit's guidance. Baptism is still done in water, but with different purposes. John's was for remission of sins, our Lord's is for a clear acceptance of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28 and Mark 16 Jesus commands baptism, and the word used was Baptizo;
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
[TABLE]
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[TD] Strong's Number: 907[/TD]
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[/TR]
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[TD="colspan: 2"][TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Original Word[/TD]
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Lord Jesus now gives us that remission of sins, so the baptism that Jesus commands is still done in water. But it is a sign of a true believer in Christ, that they do this for their love of the Lord and sign of a clean conscious of the believer to walk properly as the Lord ask of us and to accept the Holy Spirit's guidance. Baptism is still done in water, but with different purposes. John's was for remission of sins, our Lord's is for a clear acceptance of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28 and Mark 16 Jesus commands baptism, and the word used was Baptizo;
The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="width: 320"][TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] Strong's Number: 907[/TD]
[TD="width: 120, align: center"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Original Word[/TD]
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