WORD OF FAITH., PROSPERITY GOSPEL????

[SoulWeaver]

Why do they say it is good to seek healing and prosperity? Do they not know that these things shall be added unto those who seek the Kingdom? Do they not know that His Kingdom is not of this world?

Lol, walking with Jesus is quite a prosperity in comparison to being under demonic oppression, dont you think?
He demonstrated these things in the nation of Israel, how He brought them out of Egyptian oppression and brought them into a prosperous land, as "type and shadow" of how He would take us out of spiritual Egypt into the Kingdom of God... now this is the prospering.

I dont think God is too concerned with the earthly life but rather with the inner life as we spend just a trifle of time here. He looked upon Lazarus eating crumbs all his life. I mean, I just turned around, and I'm almost 30. It will pass pretty fast... But also I dont think it is wrong to ask for healing or financial provision sometimes as needed, it is only wrong for this to be the focus... I dont think that the OP wanted to put them as focus, tbh, it seems she got opposed so sharply because of some other people around who preach just that and leave out the meat.

 

[notuptome]

There are some full gospel denominations that are full of errors..... I'm a Pentecostal, a full gospel myself, I should know.

Then again, which denomination doesn't have a few within their ranks that aren't full of errors?
The only difference is that most of ours are seen on TV.

That doesn't shame me because I'm not one of them. They came out from us, but they are not of us. They are counterfeits.

I guess it depends on how you define errors. The gospel is not about Pentecostalism. Pentecostalism has nothing to do with the gospel. Pentecostalism has nothing to do with discipleship. Pentecostalism has created great controversy with no profit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SolidGround]

I guess it depends on how you define errors. The gospel is not about Pentecostalism. Pentecostalism has nothing to do with the gospel. Pentecostalism has nothing to do with discipleship. Pentecostalism has created great controversy with no profit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Just as Paul said, regardless of motive, Christ is preached.
Many come to salvation in Pentecostal Churches, but then leave once they outgrow it's shallow doctrine.

I was saved in a Pentecostal Church. I stayed there, even after I was shown it's many doctrinal errors, because it was my church home.
Once I moved away from that neighborhood, I found a Bible preaching church, and stayed there.

What you find in many of the "charismatic" movements, is young preachers,
or preachers who started young, and never matured.
By young I don't mean in age, but in maturity in Christ.

Either way, people do come to Christ in these congregations,
it's just that they need to leave soon after,
or be held back in maturity by being fed only milk.

 

[notuptome]

Just as Paul said, regardless of motive, Christ is preached.
Many come to salvation in Pentecostal Churches, but then leave once they outgrow it's shallow doctrine.

I was saved in a Pentecostal Church. I stayed there, even after I was shown it's many doctrinal errors, because it was my church home.
Once I moved away from that neighborhood, I found a Bible preaching church, and stayed there.

What you find in many of the "charismatic" movements, is young preachers,
or preachers who started young, and never matured.
By young I don't mean in age, but in maturity in Christ.

Either way, people do come to Christ in these congregations,
it's just that they need to leave soon after,
or be held back in maturity by being fed only milk.

I am always left to wonder. I do hope you are right.

Have you ever wondered why in this day of the mega church the church has so little impact on society?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Stephen63]

I guess it depends on how you define errors. The gospel is not about Pentecostalism. Pentecostalism has nothing to do with the gospel. Pentecostalism has nothing to do with discipleship. Pentecostalism has created great controversy with no profit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

How do you know? You weren't there when it began...... and you haven't watched it closely. Quit believing hearsay.

 

[Stephen63]

Just as Paul said, regardless of motive, Christ is preached.
Many come to salvation in Pentecostal Churches, but then leave once they outgrow it's shallow doctrine.

I was saved in a Pentecostal Church. I stayed there, even after I was shown it's many doctrinal errors, because it was my church home.
Once I moved away from that neighborhood, I found a Bible preaching church, and stayed there.

What you find in many of the "charismatic" movements, is young preachers,
or preachers who started young, and never matured.
By young I don't mean in age, but in maturity in Christ.

Either way, people do come to Christ in these congregations,
it's just that they need to leave soon after,
or be held back in maturity by being fed only milk.

I wished for once that somebody would do some personal research..... Pentecostalism has nothing to do with the charismatic movement. Even Wikipedia says so. Every time I hear about the charismatics & the Pentecostal put together, I know already they didn't even bother to search Wikipedia..... even the armchair internet theologians do that.....

 

[Stephen63]

I am always left to wonder. I do hope you are right.

Have you ever wondered why in this day of the mega church the church has so little impact on society?

For the cause of Christ

Roger

It's quite simple. They are mostly about taking care of the inside of the 4 walls & not hurting anyone's feelings & bring entertainment to their areas by doing plays, musicals, & praise & worship concerts. Let's not forget making a name for themselves & putting their senior leaders on a pedestal, thinking people will come if they see how well they take care of them. Not all of them do this, but many do.

 

[Free-To-Be]

Well, if you believe in a Prosperity Gospel, or that you can be rich here upon this Earth, then speak of how one does all these things for Christ's glory would be sort of like putting on a mask. For Jesus said, for where your treasure is, there is where your heart will be also. How simple that is. If you put treasure here, then your real treasure is not the Pearl of Great Price (Who is Jesus Christ) but is the treasure here on this Earth. For the rich man went away sad. Jesus also said this to his disciples at another time, so it was not an isolated incident. Jesus does not want us to be overly wealthy or to covet after riches. God desires equality amongst the brethren. Not one starving in the streets and another living it up with fancy cars, jets, and the like.

Are you telling us that you cant see where Ladylynns heart is. Her treasure is Christ. Christ is her traesure its as plian as the nose on your face. How can you bless anyone when you have nothing but chicken feed. How can you bless when you dont believe Gods word. Every one in here with opinions based on what someone said. So many just pulling down believers. I am only here a short time. To encourage believers them am gone never to return. Some grab it and run with it. The rest will live as they believe. If you dont understand something. At least shut your face until you do. OR back it up with scripture. The beleievers will not be here long, they will all move on to be built up in there faith.
I am taking my time in here talking about the smaller things so far. There is so much more but your not ready.
Far to much laughing at people and tearing Christians down in here. Its obviosly not moderated at all. Really sad seeing Christians act like this. But I ts also understandable.

 

[Tintin]

[video=youtube_share;h8fLn7fLpmc]http://youtu.be/h8fLn7fLpmc[/video]

There are some scare tactics in this video but it's still very disturbing on it's own. I still don't see this as indicative of all Word of Faith churches though. Also, not everything that's difficult to understand or unusual is of the Enemy eg. Patricia King.

 

[Tintin]

Here is part 2 of the video compilation highlighting false teachers from the "Word of Faith" movement:

[video=youtube_share;_1v3w33fpio]http://youtu.be/_1v3w33fpio[/video]

Billy Graham? Granted that wasn't his finest moment and what he said was concerning. Unfortunately his mistakes were captured on camera and this video sample could be taking what he says next out of context. That doesn't mean he's a false teacher. It means he's as human as you and I. I'm not making excuses but providing understanding. The fruit of his ministry is good and godly. The same can't be said of most of the others in these videos.

 

[ladylynn]

The verse is from Ecclesiastes. Please read through that book.
It is a book from the perspective of an unbeliever. Go ahead and read that passage to yourself, and see if I am right.
It goes through the 7 main philosophies of man, mostly written from the perspectives of humanism and fatalism.

I am not knocking down anyone's faith, but instead building you up. If you are being held back by false teachers, then hopefully a little truth will set you free.

Who is a false teacher here in this thread? What false things have been said here in this thread? I see your references to people who steal money, who are worldly, thieves, false prophets... who here has said we condone such behavior or would follow such people? No one here has. But you have accused and then sought to "correct" us for what you "think" we believe based on your jump the gun reflex.




I desire very much to see all of you to be happy and prosperous. I just also wish you had a heart like mine, and understood true prosperity, and hated the false, worldly version.

Now I don't get this... you wish we had a heart like yours?., one of understanding true prosperity and who hates the worldly version. (??) How can you actually say that without knowing how proud and self righteous that sounds??

Please, instead - wish we had a heart like Jesus.


There are many good Bible teaching preachers who have large congregations.
Those people that I mentioned are not Bible preachers, but are thieves and false prophets. Do not listen to them.
This is not about size of ministry, but about what is being preached.

Again, who here said anything about following people based on the size of their ministry?? Not a one of us.



Be sure to understand that God is "not a tame lion". He owes us nothing. We are to humble ourselves before Him, not make demands.


Again, who here said that God is a tame lion??? Who owes us something???? Who here has said we do not humble ourselves before the Lord Jesus? And who here said we 'demand' anything from God?? Not a one of us. Your admonishing goes to people who are not in this thread.

You think I am negative... Okay.... Not sure why you think that. You assume that I am unhappy because I know I don't belong to this world? Don't be deceived. The joy I have is far beyond what money has ever given anyone.

I have seen poverty, and I am now in a place of good finance. I have been healthy, and I have had serious ailments.
The joy of the Lord does not come and go with money or health. It is deep and true, and not swayed by circumstances.
Seek that joy.

Not one of us here has a corner on suffering, including you. But each one of us does however have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and can for our selves comprehend with all the saints what the joy of the Lord is. Having you and others point out that our joy should reflect yours - sounds 'extreemly' self righteous on your part.

And as I pointed out to Angela.,mine, or anyone's faith walk is not any less valid than another persons here. For you guys to assume you have the market on personal faith is just plain silly.

 

[Tintin]

[video=youtube_share;wyFUm51SNsE]http://youtu.be/wyFUm51SNsE[/video]

Oh, brilliant, he's a KJV-Onlyist. But he still has a lot of good things to say. That said, his simmering hatred towards all charismatics irks me. There's a difference between judging in a godly manner and judging in the manner he sometimes seems to be doing. For example, the holy laughter thing isn't ungodly but that manifestation of it towards the end didn't seem very genuine. Remember, the Enemy counterfeits the good things of God. Check the fruit. Don't just write something off because it makes you uncomfortable. Sometimes the Holy Spirit convicts us by unsettling us or just reminds us of His unpredictable nature.

 

[ladylynn]

Oh, brilliant, he's a KJV-Onlyist. But he still has a lot of good things to say. That said, his simmering hatred towards all charismatics irks me. There's a difference between judging in a godly manner and judging in the manner he sometimes seems to be doing. For example, the holy laughter thing isn't ungodly but that manifestation of it towards the end didn't seem very genuine. Remember, the Enemy counterfeits the good things of God. Check the fruit. Don't just write something off because it makes you uncomfortable. Sometimes the Holy Spirit convicts us by unsettling us or just reminds us of His unpredictable nature.

Have been reading your posts and appreciate your -stop and listen before judging- attitude. Taking "time" to hear a person out is not only important.,but wise. How can we expect to witness to the unsaved if we can't even stand each other??

I stopped listening to people like the ones who simmer that way. There is something behind their fire besides seeking to defend the faith.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I am always left to wonder. I do hope you are right.

Have you ever wondered why in this day of the mega church the church has so little impact on society?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

if all you behold is the part of society that is not changed by those mega churches among them, then of course it would appear there is no impact. Put Jesus in the place of one mega church, in one city. .How would Jesus have more impact than He did in any town He preached in long ago?

Yet, He promised in John 14:11-14 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.


Have you considered that it might be daunting to the human being what might be possible out of that? It has been for me. I've seen some things that amazed me, even though probably not usually miracles per se. The impacts on society won't go behond what society will accept. The Church, regardless of size anywhere, will not go beyond the faith of hearers. So it is that a mega church full of fully enlightened Christians might not seem to make much difference. But what differences there are to the glory of God will amount to the accomplishment of God's will in those people that are convinced of Christ. It might take 20,000 to get the one back to God. What value the price of one soul compared to the cost paid by God?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Oh, brilliant, he's a KJV-Onlyist. But he still has a lot of good things to say. That said, his simmering hatred towards all charismatics irks me. There's a difference between judging in a godly manner and judging in the manner he sometimes seems to be doing. For example, the holy laughter thing isn't ungodly but that manifestation of it towards the end didn't seem very genuine. Remember, the Enemy counterfeits the good things of God. Check the fruit. Don't just write something off because it makes you uncomfortable. Sometimes the Holy Spirit convicts us by unsettling us or just reminds us of His unpredictable nature.

I wonder how many people were skeptical when seeing some place a patch from Paul's garment on their bodies, then receiving a miracle healing? I suppose it didn't really matter the weight of one flea to God. It did matter to the ones who benefited.

Acts 19:10-12 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

"Prayer cloths" they are called sometimes......I call prosperity in a patch. There are many forms of prosperity from God. I will accept all He offers.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

anyone know how is the mormon doctrine of 'prosperity' different from 'evangelical prosperity' ?

"If the Latter-day Saints will walk up to their privileges, and exercise faith in the name of Jesus Christ, and live in the enjoyment of the fulness of the Holy Ghost constantly day by day, there is nothing on the face of the earth that they could ask for, that would not be given to them. The Lord is waiting to be very gracious unto this people, and to pour out upon them riches, honor, glory and power, even that they may possess all things according to the promises he has made through his Apostles and Prophets"

- Brigham Young
​

They do have some doctrines of Christianity, like
3 John 1:1-7 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers;
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Because that for his name's sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles.

- Apostle John
A long post, but piecemeal won't cover this:


The very apostle closest to Jesus opend that holy scripture with that blessing to Gaius. His name was given in Greek Γάϊος which was of Latin origin, in Latin "Caius". Whoever he was in history, he was credited as being very benevolent towards Christians, assumed to be a Christian leader, showing much love (love feasts) towards the Church such that no gospel worker needed to take any assistance of any Gentile ministered to.

That was a man blessed of God, blessing ministers of God. That is the purpose of material wealth. That part of prosperity is one third of it all. Health is another. Prosperity of the soul is another. Combined they form the perfect, well equipped man of God able to go anywhere, preach, at his own expense as provided by God who owns the cattle on a thousand hills , having hr health to do it, anointed of the Holy Spirit.

Some say that was a customary pleasant letter preamble. No epistle of God is introduced with rhetoric. Every word is inspired from the Holy Spirit. That preamble statement was unique, directly appicable to a model Christian, and agreees with much of scriptures. God is no respecter of persons, not reserving any blessing for any sect, race, or favorite man or woman. He is happy to see Hischildren blessed in all ways possible, them that please Him.

Paul too was blessed of material blessings from Christian supporters that kept him from having to rely on the Gentiles ministered to while sitting in very difficult danger.
Philippians 4:16-20 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Now consider the subtle differences between prosperity of wealth, and riches for the sake of riches, and poverty.


Proverbs 10:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The rich man's wealth is his strong city: the destruction of the poor is their poverty.

Proverbs 11:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty.

Proverbs 13:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured.

Proverbs 20:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Love not sleep, lest thou come to poverty; open thine eyes, and thou shalt be satisfied with bread.

Proverbs 23:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

Proverbs 28:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] He that tilleth his land shall have plenty of bread: but he that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough.

Proverbs 28:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him.

Proverbs 30:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:

That last one I added is a good summation of what the Lord wants in us. No sensible Christian should wish for a mountain of gold (riches), to be rich suddenly withut a plan, which would chain him to that mountain to stay rich, prohibiting his duty to God. No sensible Christian should desire poverty, lest he be ashamed when needed for relief, unable to serve God's kingdom beyond his own porch. We need "enough" to do what God has commanded each to do. That is what Gaius did. His testimony is written forever standing before the throne of God. What poverty stricken person that complains of wealth prosperiy has any witness to convince another poverty stricken person holding on to hope that God will deliver from poverty? What is necessary to rise out of financial poverty? Material blessing. What keeps people sound while waiting? Spiritual blessings abounding. The Christians Gaius abounded towards had the spiritual blessings. They needed enough material blessings to do the work of the gospel.

Why should we work for money? We know God says a man is worse than an infidel that doesn't provide for his family.
But that isn't the reason for working for pay. It starts with our own household. 1 Timothy 5:4-8 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Again,
1 Timothy 5:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.

We must not embarass the Church through neglect of our own family.

It doesn't stop there, which is esxpensive enough already, right?

Here is a very direct statement of God's plan for material wealth.

Ephesians 4:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
That's the big picture of why we work hard, earn all we can in the doing of it, living in expectation of being a channel of blessing. It takes material wealth to do a bit of that. Wealth is having more than you need at home, being able to provide relief to someone else. If you can, then you are prospering with wealth. Willing to do a lot more? Begin developing faith towards being rich towards your church, your neighbors, whoever God directs you to.

 

[newbirth]

Some ask and receive not because they ask amiss so as to consume it upon their own lust.....If we ask within the will of God then we will receive....if we ask because of lust...forget it as the answer will probably be NO!

one of my favourite....
Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

[ladylynn]

I wished for once that somebody would do some personal research..... Pentecostalism has nothing to do with the charismatic movement. Even Wikipedia says so. Every time I hear about the charismatics & the Pentecostal put together, I know already they didn't even bother to search Wikipedia..... even the armchair internet theologians do that.....

I do not know the differences exactly between a Pentecostal and a Charismatic. I come from a Catholic back round in the 1960s where we looked at God as a far away and Holy God who we worshiped in a very subdued and 'religious' respectful atmosphere with incense. No one would even think of raising hands in worship let alone be demonstrative except maybe by kneeling properly in the pew and genuflecting before the alter before taking our seat. Wearing our Sunday best out of respect., hats, white gloves for us little girls with black patten leather shoes and carrying our rosaries.

It was all very subdued and at times beautiful especially around Christmas and at night for midnight service. And I know many Christians today continue to prefer that more subdued atmosphere. The new music in church just doesn't do it for us. But again, that is imo a personal taste issue.

Since being raised on that type of reverence for God it was not much of a stretch to go into a fundamental Baptist Church although at the time it was a major stretch for me. No statues and incense.,no subdued atmosphere with stained glass windows and that sort of thing.

But even today I am not one to feel comfortable with raising hands in worship (am sorry to say) I don't yet feel totally comfortable in a crowed to do that, although at home and in the car I do lots of it. (not raising hands while driving) but palms up in a manner of receiving openly God's truth and love. I'm sure without that gesture He gives it anyway, but my own body responds in such a way to want to open my hands to receive or fall on knees and worship Him for His beauty and goodness and purity and love. Being in His presence is being in AWE of Him and at times it's overwhelming to tears of joy and worship. So my guess is that many people are able to do this openly and they are 'charismatic'

From just a quick observation, a charismatic has more to do with a personality of openness in how people do things in their lives. Some are more demonstrative emotionally than others and feel a freedom to be that way. I am not one of them but am becoming more bold in my worship because I just can't help it. Tears of joy flow., laughter and an excitement that the Lord is at hand!! Knowing He is aware of me and will lead me to do what He wants in life. No more doubts and fears about direction because He has promised and has done what He promised and keeps on doing what He promised. The more I find out about Him, His love, His promises for us., the more worship, faith and ability to do His will. Grace is an amazing gift! It's got to be that different people respond to God emotionally depending on their personality.

I have come to see that God knows how to encourage us and He does use our bodies to reveal things to our minds and spirit. To dismiss this is just wrong. If my body has a pain, it is hard for me to concentrate on the things at hand. If there is a sadness or foreboding, that also prevents me from doing the things I need to do sometimes. It makes it more difficult although it still gets done, it is not as free flowing and easy and fun and joyful.

So it has been my experience that God has taken many of my wrong thoughts away by showing in His Word a way out. Fear for one. At the time of -beginning not to fear-, the same issues to fear were there, but because of the faith in the promises, I began to see Him above the things feared. And soon was able to not fear. Giving weight to HIM and not the things feared. Faith in HIM and not what is going on around.

Am also thinking this process takes time. Faith upon faith. Then to be encouraged by God doing things in our daily life. Taking away the fear., then taking away the pain., those things were very encouraging and spurred another step of faith., then another and another.

How can one Christian understand that walk of faith for another Christian??? To insert their own experiences with God's Word above what God is doing in another persons life? This also limits God in doing MORE than they can understand because it effectively cuts the flow of faith that there is yet MORE of God to know.

Maybe everyone isn't going to be 'charismatic' or 'pentecostal' in this life and many who already are 'charismatic' and 'pentecostal' are not going to be subdued prim and proper. Some peoples idea of "doing everything decently and in order" doesn't mean without lifting of hands or speaking in tongues?

 

[ladylynn]

They do have some doctrines of Christianity, like
3 John 1:1-7 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers;
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Because that for his name's sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles.

- Apostle John
A long post, but piecemeal won't cover this:


The very apostle closest to Jesus opend that holy scripture with that blessing to Gaius. His name was given in Greek Γάϊος which was of Latin origin, in Latin "Caius". Whoever he was in history, he was credited as being very benevolent towards Christians, assumed to be a Christian leader, showing much love (love feasts) towards the Church such that no gospel worker needed to take any assistance of any Gentile ministered to.

That was a man blessed of God, blessing ministers of God. That is the purpose of material wealth. That part of prosperity is one third of it all. Health is another. Prosperity of the soul is another. Combined they form the perfect, well equipped man of God able to go anywhere, preach, at his own expense as provided by God who owns the cattle on a thousand hills , having hr health to do it, anointed of the Holy Spirit.

Some say that was a customary pleasant letter preamble. No epistle of God is introduced with rhetoric. Every word is inspired from the Holy Spirit. That preamble statement was unique, directly appicable to a model Christian, and agreees with much of scriptures. God is no respecter of persons, not reserving any blessing for any sect, race, or favorite man or woman. He is happy to see Hischildren blessed in all ways possible, them that please Him.

Paul too was blessed of material blessings from Christian supporters that kept him from having to rely on the Gentiles ministered to while sitting in very difficult danger.
Philippians 4:16-20 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Now consider the subtle differences between prosperity of wealth, and riches for the sake of riches, and poverty.


Proverbs 10:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The rich man's wealth is his strong city: the destruction of the poor is their poverty.

Proverbs 11:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty.

Proverbs 13:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured.

Proverbs 20:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Love not sleep, lest thou come to poverty; open thine eyes, and thou shalt be satisfied with bread.

Proverbs 23:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

Proverbs 28:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] He that tilleth his land shall have plenty of bread: but he that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough.

Proverbs 28:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him.

Proverbs 30:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:

That last one I added is a good summation of what the Lord wants in us. No sensible Christian should wish for a mountain of gold (riches), to be rich suddenly withut a plan, which would chain him to that mountain to stay rich, prohibiting his duty to God. No sensible Christian should desire poverty, lest he be ashamed when needed for relief, unable to serve God's kingdom beyond his own porch. We need "enough" to do what God has commanded each to do. That is what Gaius did. His testimony is written forever standing before the throne of God. What poverty stricken person that complains of wealth prosperiy has any witness to convince another poverty stricken person holding on to hope that God will deliver from poverty? What is necessary to rise out of financial poverty? Material blessing. What keeps people sound while waiting? Spiritual blessings abounding. The Christians Gaius abounded towards had the spiritual blessings. They needed enough material blessings to do the work of the gospel.

Why should we work for money? We know God says a man is worse than an infidel that doesn't provide for his family.
But that isn't the reason for working for pay. It starts with our own household. 1 Timothy 5:4-8 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is good and acceptable before God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Again,
1 Timothy 5:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.

We must not embarass the Church through neglect of our own family.

It doesn't stop there, which is esxpensive enough already, right?

Here is a very direct statement of God's plan for material wealth.

Ephesians 4:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
That's the big picture of why we work hard, earn all we can in the doing of it, living in expectation of being a channel of blessing. It takes material wealth to do a bit of that. Wealth is having more than you need at home, being able to provide relief to someone else. If you can, then you are prospering with wealth. Willing to do a lot more? Begin developing faith towards being rich towards your church, your neighbors, whoever God directs you to.

Your post really explained your position (and mine) so well. The Bible does interprete Itself when we are open to the Holy Spirit. Thank you for the clarity and putting it down here for us to read. I just hope many here take the time to read it. God bless you brother.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Don't you sometimes know it is not God's will for you when you receive no "signs following" or confirmation? Having so many years in hospice work, I saw many faith-filled people who actually believed they would be healed while on earth, only to have their symptoms get worse. It made me wonder if when we see no confirmations, we should be changing our prayers.

Could we be praying amiss? To those people who would not let go of their claim to earthly healing, they could have been praying entirely differently - like in the direction of how to prepare for their death emotionally, and how they could best minister to their families during that time.

Before my work, I was one that took God completely at His word for health - and would say that I still lean that way - but life happens and it sort of balances you a little. People do die, and even the best of Christians have lingering illnesses where they can then experience the reality of God's strength overcoming weakness - when all of a sudden health is not the important thing. When they are given the grace to endure and knows it's power.

For years, I prayed for my very high cholesterol to be brought down when I could not take the drugs. Nothing happened and I really believed in perfect healing for that. Had total faith. Nothing happened. Then one day, I felt the Lord directing me to pray differently. To pray that my arteries would be able to handle that high level. Well.... that was 40 years ago, and I"m still way over what I should be, but I'm still living. And very healthily. Made me wonder if the Lord wanted me to see that we could live a long life with various illnesses without healing them. That we are sometimes praying away the diagnosis when it should not be that important?

I have other things for which I am waiting on healing, but no confirmations yet. So, now I pray for strength and health to do what He purposes me to do with my life.

I don't have the answers - just wondering.... Maybe it just isn't that simple.

My wife's business is coordination of hospice, and serving retirees who prefer referrals for the best of the best personal caregivers who are experienced, trained, with a pure national criminal check. Our home is outfitted to take in some terminally ill patients, one at a time. Usually there has been no family history of spirituality, no prayer life, no faith, but often the ill rely on their Rosary, and we allow RCC priests to come in visiting. They are always the most pleasant visitors! They never engage in Bible topics, but are always a great comfort to patients. Thank you all you hospice nurses and technicians, too!

We have found over the years that prayers for healing are always answered. Our concept of "healing" might not be what our mind supposes, though. Our desire is that all who come here will die like Moses did, fully physically whole, even in their 90's. Most pass on while showing hope of independent living. God uses the very old to reach the family souls. They come, see Mom once again recognizes them after years of degrees of dementia, giving us an opportunity to give the gospel to them. It isn't that God awards the health terrors to make some good opportunity, but that He can and does open doors through all terrors.

Simply providing a proper diet sometimes brings patients out of "impossible" situations. No miracles needed! Retirement centers often feed residents into bad health, restricted by budgets.

Cholesterol? It doesn't require miracles. Our organs make it, and blood glucose overnight. Restricting the ingredients usually solves that problem, with gentle exercise, and food portion control.

It is God who gives us wisdom and good knowledge, the patience to treasure that, and opportunities to show we humans need not have to count on miracles to live long and prosperously in every way. Our patients are referred with only weeks to live, but some live another year or more with few physical problems. They pay the consequential price of a long life of body, soul, and spirit neglect like all of us must pay. In that we learn to seek out the wisdom of God to be longer and more effective about doing His business.