A very critical difference between the old and new covenants

[eternally-gratefull]

I just meant that even people who are not born again can give . . . can do good things . . . . so doing those things i.e. they give to the poor, they feed the poor, they visit people in jail. - does not guarantee or show that someone is born again nor saved. So "works" by themselves mean nothing - and it just goes to show that "works" do not "equal" salvation. Maybe I know what I mean but am not conveying it as I should -

But I do understand what you are saying and agree!

aww you misunderstood me, I agreed with everything you said, just added to what you said is all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

I think you just gave us the answer in a backwards way.

How good is good enough, it does not say, but it does say how bad is bad enough..

read it again.

disobedient, and unto EVERY GOOD WORK reprobate

In other words, these people did not do one good deed to honor God.

Even james said the same thing.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

Again james is speaking of the negative, these people have NO GOOD WORKS.

although again, we are left with a conundrum, If zero works leads to condemnation, how many good works will allow us to be saved, or how good is good enough?

 

[Jason0047]

Faith and obedience do work hand and hand.
Through hearing the word and trusting in what it says comes your belief/faith in the Lord.
Then through that faith in the Lord, and the godly sorrow you fell about your sins that have separated you from God leads you to obey the first command to repent of your sins. Then through that obedience you get baptized, and stay firm in the faith confessing Him before others leading to salvation.

I would encourage you to study the first half of Titus 3:5 for about a week or so in deep prayer with God, my friend.

 

[Jason0047]

Wow, this is the first thread I've liked 100% so far.

There are many differences between those two covenants, and they are not the only Bible covenants as Jason pointed out. Also the Noahic covenant is an important one that is eternal.

Dear WS:

Thank you so much for the rep. God bless your heart for your kindness, my dear brother.

But I did not mention anything about the other covenants (Like the Noadic Covenant, etc.). I believe the covenants made with Noah (and the rest of creation), Abraham, Moses, and David are all different covenants or promises made under the umbrella of a Larger Covenant known as the Old Covenant or Old Testament. For there are only two major Covenants and or two major Testaments. The Old Testament and the New Testament (Which divides our Bibles). Hebrews 9-10 mentions these two testaments or covenants (And are contrasted between one another in Hebrews and the rest of Scripture).

The importance of these two major covenants (i.e. the OT and the NT) is that they both dealt with atoning for sin and in getting oneself right with God by faith. The Old Testament was temporary and it was not meant to be a perfect everlasting Covenant because the blood of goats and bulls could never take away sin. The animal sacrifices were only types or shadows of Christ. Only in the New Covenant (the more perfect Covenant) could a person be cleansed of sin once and for all (When a person confesses their sin to Jesus). The other covenants under the umbrella of the Old Testament were not separate or distinct from the OT but they were a part of the OT, and they did not deal specifically with atoning for sin within the present moment of time for a believer. Besides the Noadic Covenant (Which was a Promise not to destroy the Earth by water again), these other covenants were different promises (all be it they were related to God's plan of redemption but they were not involved to each believer directly or in their walk of faith with God so as to deal with sin personally).

Hebrews talks about how each of these two major Covenants were dedicated in blood.

The Old Covenant (or Old Testament) was made with Adam and Eve (Who would end up being the parents of the entire human race). Adam and Eve had sinned; And Adam and Eve tried to cover up that sin and or nakedness their own way with fig leaves. But God would not accept their efforts, though. Instead, God sacrificed an animal (shed blood) so as to cover their nakedness. God made the first sacrifice (by shedding blood) to temporarily cleanse them of sin. This was a continued practice as a part of faith for a believer who lived in the times of the Old Testament.

However, in the New Covenant (or New Testament), God made a Covenant with all of humanity (For Jesus is the Lamb of God who took away the sins of the entire world). For by faith both Jew and Gentile can cover their nakedness and sin by placing their faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Passover Lamb (i.e. the animal who is sacrificed) who shed His blood so as to cleanse people of their sins if they put their trust in Him. So in the Old Testament God offered the first sacrifice, but in the New Testament God offered the last sacrifice (Jesus Christ). In the Old Testament, people has to go to a priest again and again to re-visit the same sins all over again. But in the New Testament, people now can go to a Heavenly High Priest whereby they can confess their sin to God directly and be cleansed of confessed sin forever. For Jesus is the Mediator of the New Testament who acts on our behalf between God the Father and man.

I hope this clears up where I am coming from, my brother.

May the Lord bless you greatly today.
And may His love make you stronger and stronger, too.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~Jason.


...

 

[AtonedFor]

Sorry, boys 'n gals, this thread concerns ...
a (one) very critical difference between the old and new covenants
... as laid out in the OP.

But, perhaps Jason would also like to include all of his reasons
why he's in love with the pre-trib rapture.
That would be sure to really please the Lord. lol

 

[Jason0047]

Sorry, boys 'n gals, this thread concerns ...
a (one) very critical difference between the old and new covenants
... as laid out in the OP.

In creating thread topics, there are going to be people of different opinions and beliefs on such said topic. It is not an off topic discussion if someone disagrees with you. In other words, if Rick created a thread called "All clowns have only one arm"; It would be a ridiculous statement that is not true, whereby people would then share their opinions as to why that was not true.

But, perhaps Jason would also like to include all of his reasons
why he's in love with the pre-trib rapture.
That would be sure to really please the Lord. lol

Insults are not generally becoming of the saints. The attack should not be the person but the doctrine. In fact, speaking of off topic discussions: Talking about the Rapture or insulting me within in this thread would both be off topic discussions.

 

[Elin]

Read my post #2, those scriptures have nothing to do about rewards and yet still show no salvation if obedience to the ways of the Lord are not followed.

Salvation is not lost when reward is lost for no quality in one's Christian work (1Co 3:14-15).

 

[Elin]

there are quite a few differences

1. The old was the symbol, the new was the fulfilment

2. The old required obedience, and punishment for disobedience, And required perfect obedience, or a sacrifice had to be given to redeem for disobedience. the new acknowledges we have sinned, and allows us to cry out to God for salvation. for his one sacrifice paid the eternal penalty of sin,

3. The old had a flawed sacrificial system, the mediator was in sin himself. so could not make the sacrifice, The new had a sinless mediator, who sacrificed himself once, and sat down at the right hand of God.

4. The old showed us our sin (schoolmaster), the new shows us how to be obedient (seek after the things of the spirit)

5. The old was flawed, in that no one could live up to it, the new one is perfect in that Christ fulfilled the old, and thus didd what the old could not do

6. The old said stone to death adulterers and other punishments for sin,
the new says we all have sinned, and
have no right to cast any stone, or punish anyone. for we all need forgiveness.

Remember, the new does not abolish punishment for disobedience to the governing authority
or of the law (Ro 1-2, 4).

7. The old said to pluck the splinter from our brothers eyes, the new says to remove the stump from our own first.

I'm not familiar with the Scripture which says to pluck the splinter from our brother's eye.
Could you point it out for me.

8. the old said this is sin, the new STILL says this is sin.

I can go on and on and on..

Keeping in mind that the new also STILL says punishment by the governing authority is authorized by God as his agent of wrath to punish the wrongdoer (Ro 13:4).

"The authorities that exist have been established by God (including Nero, the killer of Christians). . .
if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword (of capital punishment) in vain.
He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer." (Ro 13:1, 4)

 

[Elin]

Dear WS:

Thank you so much for the rep. God bless your heart for your kindness, my dear brother.

But I did not mention anything about the other covenants (Like the Noadic Covenant, etc.). I believe the covenants made with Noah (and the rest of creation), Abraham, Moses, and David are all different covenants or promises made under the umbrella of a Larger Covenant known as the Old Covenant or Old Testament. For there are only two major Covenants and or two major Testaments. The Old Testament and the New Testament (Which divides our Bibles). Hebrews 9-10 mentions these two testaments or covenants (And are contrasted between one another in Hebrews and the rest of Scripture).

The importance of these two major covenants (i.e. the OT and the NT) is that they both dealt with atoning for sin and in getting oneself right with God by faith. The Old Testament was temporary and it was not meant to be a perfect everlasting Covenant because the blood of goats and bulls could never take away sin. The animal sacrifices were only types or shadows of Christ. Only in the New Covenant (the more perfect Covenant) could a person be cleansed of sin once and for all (When a person confesses their sin to Jesus). The other covenants under the umbrella of the Old Testament were not separate or distinct from the OT but they were a part of the OT, and they did not deal specifically with atoning for sin within the present moment of time for a believer. Besides the Noadic Covenant (Which was a Promise not to destroy the Earth by water again), these other covenants were different promises (all be it they were related to God's plan of redemption but they were not involved to each believer directly or in their walk of faith with God so as to deal with sin personally).

Hebrews talks about how each of these two major Covenants were dedicated in blood.

The Old Covenant (or Old Testament) was made with Adam and Eve (Who would end up being the parents of the entire human race). Adam and Eve had sinned; And Adam and Eve tried to cover up that sin and or nakedness their own way with fig leaves. But God would not accept their efforts, though. Instead, God sacrificed an animal (shed blood) so as to cover their nakedness. God made the first sacrifice (by shedding blood) to temporarily cleanse them of sin. This was a continued practice as a part of faith for a believer who lived in the times of the Old Testament.

However, in the New Covenant (or New Testament), God made a Covenant with all of humanity (For Jesus is the Lamb of God who took away the sins of the entire world). For by faith both Jew and Gentile can cover their nakedness and sin by placing their faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Passover Lamb (i.e. the animal who is sacrificed) who shed His blood so as to cleanse people of their sins if they put their trust in Him. So in the Old Testament God offered the first sacrifice, but in the New Testament God offered the last sacrifice (Jesus Christ). In the Old Testament, people has to go to a priest again and again to re-visit the same sins all over again. But in the New Testament, people now can go to a Heavenly High Priest whereby they can confess their sin to God directly and be cleansed of confessed sin forever. For Jesus is the Mediator of the New Testament who acts on our behalf between God the Father and man.

I hope this clears up where I am coming from, my brother.

May the Lord bless you greatly today.
And may His love make you stronger and stronger, too.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~Jason.

Hi, Jason,

I enjoy your good posts, but I think if you will look into it, you will find the "Old" Covenant refers to the temporary Mosaic (Sinaitic) Covenant of the blood of bulls and goats, and does not refer to the Abrahamic covenant.

 

[Kerry]

The Abraham covenant is still in effect. The reason why there is an Israel is because of Gods covenant to Abraham.

 

[Mitspa]

Faith and love are the obedience of the New Covenant ...not obedience to the letter (written code) but to the Spirit.. The obedience of faith is the obedience we are called too...and repentance is from "dead" works...works of the law ...obedience to the "letter" is dead works.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Dear WS:

Thank you so much for the rep. God bless your heart for your kindness, my dear brother.

But I did not mention anything about the other covenants (Like the Noadic Covenant, etc.). I believe the covenants made with Noah (and the rest of creation), Abraham, Moses, and David are all different covenants or promises made under the umbrella of a Larger Covenant known as the Old Covenant or Old Testament.
...

With sincere love for you brother, I must stay with what I believe God's word declares first.

The covenant that God swore to Noah was not covered by the umbrella of future covenants. If so, then that covenant was sworn of God in vain. It stood on its own promise. What God swore to Noah stood for all the world, at hat time all Gentiles. There was no such thing as Israel or Jew. That promise was sealed with the rainbow, ongoing. It was a commitment to the race of man. The Mosaic covenant was added to Israel, to the Jews, not to all the world. The New Covenant was added to all who should believe, not to all in the world. All in the world may accept that new covenant in Christ, but need not forfeit the allowances of what God swore to Noah. None of those promises can save, like none of those to Moses saves. Men accepting the Noahic covenant are invited by the grace of God to advance to the New Covenant in Christ, while his knowledge of the Noahic remains intact. The Gentile under the Noahic was never intended to enter into the Mosaic, since neither saved souls. No Jew was intended to be held in the Mosaic, but to advance to the New, though his knowledge of the Mosaic remains intact. All, Gentile and Jew, are to apply their faith to Christ.

World gentiles have little or no understanding of Judaism or high priests or any other detail of the Mosaic. They have been afforded salvation by faith according to the grace program of God, which excuses demands of the Mosaic. All anyone in the world needs is to hear the gospel of Christ, which isn't an extension of Judaism. Upon hearing the good news, not news about sin and sacrifices, anyone can then act upon that message.

We could move on to the Abrahamic covenant, but I think you will understand without having to explore that.

You are precious to God and to me. God bless you mightily with all the promises He has made. I don't require agreement. I only hope for truth to prevail. Let me be subject to the judgment of God's word, though it is more ominous than man's.

 

[Jason0047]

Hi, Jason,

I enjoy your good posts,

Thank you Ellin. That is very kind of you to say that.

but I think if you will look into it, you will find the "Old" Covenant refers to the temporary Mosaic (Sinaitic) Covenant of the blood of bulls and goats, and does not refer to the Abrahamic covenant.

First, in Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10 it appears to be focused on the Law of Moses as the first Testament or Covenant in relation to the New Covenant or the second. But if you were to pay extra special close attention to Hebrews 9:15, it says Jesus is the Mediator of the New Testament for transgressions for those under the first testament. This would include Adam's transgressions, too. For in 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 5 we can see death was brought in by the first Adam and Life was brought in by the last Adam, Jesus Christ. It's a contrast of the Old and the New.

Yes, Abraham's Covenant was based on the Promise and not Law, but he still lived under the Old Covenant whereby He made animal sacrifices unto God and obeyed the Lord by faith. But the first initial Covenant of the Old Testament was dedicated in blood by God Himself with Adam and Eve. But the whole purpose of the Old was that these animals sacrifices never permanently took away sin and they were a type of Jesus Christ, who is the fulfillment of the New Testament (or New Covenant) who would take away sin forever.

Second, Seth, Noah, and Abraham had all made animal sacrifices before it became written in the Law for them to do so In fact, you will notice that the majority of the 10 Commandments that was a part of the Law of Moses can be seen prior in Scripture before the Ten Commandments were given. Jesus said marriage was still one man and one woman since the creation. So God's Laws on marriage had never changed thru out time. Cain murdering his brother was wrong according to God. Joseph essentially said it would be a sin against God if he gave in to Potifar's advances. 1 John 3:4 says sin is transgression of the Law; And surely sin existed before the Law of Moses. For God destroyed an entire world with a flood because of it's wickedness or sin.

I explain a little bit about this topic here (And I have included a chart to help illustrate my point):

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/96032-romans-7-man-not-saved-11.html#post1622913

Side Note:

Oh, and as for the Sabbath existing before the 10 Commandments: Well, I only noticed of how the Sabbath was being observed by Moses and his people before the giving of the 10 Commandments with the first giving of Manna from Heaven and quail to the Israelites. I have not discovered yet of any indication that the Sabbath was observed by others as if it was a binding oral Law by God. Such a thing appears to be a mystery within the Scriptures at this time.

 

[Jason0047]

With sincere love for you brother, I must stay with what I believe God's word declares first.

The covenant that God swore to Noah was not covered by the umbrella of future covenants. If so, then that covenant was sworn of God in vain. It stood on its own promise. What God swore to Noah stood for all the world, at hat time all Gentiles. There was no such thing as Israel or Jew. That promise was sealed with the rainbow, ongoing. It was a commitment to the race of man.

Dear WS:

Grace, peace, and love to you from the Lord Jesus Christ today, my brother.
I hope all is going well with you today.

Anyways, to get down to business on the topic at hand:

Well, one thing noticeable that stands out to me in what you said, reminds me immediately of one of our Lord's blessed sayings. For Jesus essentially said, "Not one jot or tittle will pass away until all be fulfilled." Meaning, even the Noadic Covenant from the time of the Old Testament will one day be fulfilled when this Earth passes away. For there are yet future promises that the Prophets speak about (Such as the Millennium, etc.). As you are probably aware, the Noadic Covenant is not an everlasting Covenant to man. It began in the Old and it will end when this Earth passes away. For there will be an Eternal New Heavens and New Earth that will come. For this Promise was made in the Old Testament times to Noah and to all of creation and it was not made in the New Testament. Yes, it's Promise was far reaching beyond the Old Testament. But it's origin is in the Old and not the New; And no doubt Jesus will be the one to fulfill this Promise. For the entirety of the Scriptures speak about Christ and how all the Promises are glorified and fulfilled thru Him.

The point I am getting at is that the Old is always fulfilled in the New.

The Mosaic covenant was added to Israel, to the Jews, not to all the world. The New Covenant was added to all who should believe, not to all in the world. All in the world may accept that new covenant in Christ, but need not forfeit the allowances of what God swore to Noah. None of those promises can save, like none of those to Moses saves. Men accepting the Noahic covenant are invited by the grace of God to advance to the New Covenant in Christ, while his knowledge of the Noahic remains intact. The Gentile under the Noahic was never intended to enter into the Mosaic, since neither saved souls. No Jew was intended to be held in the Mosaic, but to advance to the New, though his knowledge of the Mosaic remains intact. All, Gentile and Jew, are to apply their faith to Christ.

The Old Covenant or Old Testament had a progression of different Covenants or Promises made to different people groups with an overall future focus in mind. For all the OT Promises are be fulfilled in Jesus Christ. However, the OT saint who was under the Law of Moses was saved by faith in the Messiah or the Lord (Not knowing of Jesus) just as the OT saint living before the Law (Who did not know of Jesus) was saved. All of the Old Covenant involved the sacrifice of animals (i.e. the shedding of blood). For without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. That's what the primary focus of the OT was all about. The Old points to the New. The Noadic Covenant is an echo of what is yet future in the New. Just as the Abrahamic Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, and the Davidic Covenant are echoes or shadows of what is yet future in the New. All these Old Covenants of the OT all points to Jesus Christ in the New. The Old pointing to the New. Pointing to Jesus.

God offers the first sacrifice to cover Adam and Eve's nakedness. This was the beginning of the first testament (i.e. the Old Covenant or Old Testament) being dedicated in blood by God for Adam's sin, whereby Seth, Cain, and his descendants offered animals unto God. Which is a picture of the last sacrifice that God offers (Jesus Christ) who covers our nakedness or sin.

The Global Flood and the Noadic Promise (or Covenant) is a picture or symbol of the one baptism we partake in with Christ. For going down into the water we are symbolically buried with Christ; And raising up out of the water (When the flood waters abated), is a picture of how we are risen to new life in Christ thru His resurrection. No more Condemnation.

The Abrahamic Covenant (or Promise) is fulfilled in the seed of His descendant Jesus Christ who would make it possible for all of the nations of the Earth to be blessed and for Abraham's descendants to be as innummerable as the stars. For Jesus Christ is the Promised Seed. This is what the Great Comission is all about. For we are to go out unto all nations and make disciples of Jesus Christ in all nations. That people of all types can be joints heirs of the seed of Abraham thru Jesus Christ.

The Mosaic Covenant is about the priesthood and Law. The Law was a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ. Meaning, when a person breaks the Law, they realize that they are a sinner in need of a Savior (i.e. Jesus Christ). That they cannot perfectly keep the Law on their own efforts or merits. They need a person who would be a righteous substitute who kept the Law perfectly. This person is Jesus Christ. The Law of Moses also involved a priesthood, too. A priest of a different order. A priest who act on our behalf before God to forgive us of our sins. Jesus would become our eternal High Priest in Heaven acting on our behalf between God the Father and us (man). So if we slip up, we as believers can confess our sins and be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9). For Jesus lives today so as to forever make intercession for us.

The Davidic Covenant is about the Messiah and how He will rule and be King thru David's line one day. A King who will set up a perfect rule and bring in a kingdom of peace and righteousness. For at the name of Jesus Christ ever knee shall bow; And we as believers will cast our crowns down before Jesus Christ our King one day and give Him all the glory, honor, and power. For Jesus Christ is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Jesus is our eternal King; For of His Kingdom there shall be no end. For He wil rule a Kingdom where there will be no more pain, disease, suffering, death, or sorrow; And, oh, my friend, how beautiful that will be.

You are precious to God and to me. God bless you mightily with all the promises He has made. I don't require agreement. I only hope for truth to prevail. Let me be subject to the judgment of God's word, though it is more ominous than man's.

Thank you for being so kind, dear brother.
I also pray for the same.

*Gives you a hug* (In macho manly kind of way).

Love, peace, and blessings be unto you and your family greatly.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~Jason.


....

 

[phil112]

Rewards are not about eternal life, they are about the quality of the born again's work.
Eternal life is not at stake in the rewards.

I ask all of you that believe this to do this one thing. Show me what other rewards there are.

The only reward in my bible is salvation, the gift of eternal life in heaven. That is the only reward that God speaks of, that He exhorts us to obtain. My bible has no mention of any other reward. If it isn't in the bible it isn't true. The bible is the truth. It is the word of God.

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galatians 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai (Jew) as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change the Law that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
One that is a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of the Messiah, has the Law of Yahweh or more accurately the Torah, written on their heart, how could one believe it shouldnt be followed, it shouldnt be read, or it applies no longer if they are truly a part of this covenant? I believe the only reason I love His instructions is because Yahweh has put this on my heart, years ago when I was lost I certainly did not enjoy His Instructions.

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law,
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

 

[Sophia]

I think the critical difference is that: the Old Covenant never was able to save a soul, but the OT Saints were saved by belief in the Coming of the New Covenant: by having Faith in God and His plan, His Grace, His mercy, and His love. The Law could never save, just as the blood of bull could not remit sin. But it was by the same Faith that we have that the Patriarchs were saved. The Old Covenant was by the Spirit, but for the flesh, and could save the flesh, and bless the flesh.... but also condemn the flesh. The New Covenant is by the Spirit, and for the soul. It can save the soul, and bless the soul... and rejection of it is to condemn the soul.

 

[Sophia]

The requirements salvation have always been the same: by Faith. God had given different ways for people to EXPRESS their faith, but the not different requirements. If you have Faith, then it cannot be hidden, but it will be expresses in whatever you are given to do.

 

[Jason0047]

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galatians 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai (Jew) as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change the Law that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
One that is a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of the Messiah, has the Law of Yahweh or more accurately the Torah, written on their heart, how could one believe it shouldnt be followed, it shouldnt be read, or it applies no longer if they are truly a part of this covenant? I believe the only reason I love His instructions is because Yahweh has put this on my heart, years ago when I was lost I certainly did not enjoy His Instructions.

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law,
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

Not denying New Testament believers are of the seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:29), which would obviously be Abraham's descendants who were as innumerable as the stars. But this can only happen BECAUSE Jesus Christ is our "Promised Seed" that God had promised to Abraham. For...

Genesis 3:16 says,
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many, but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

For Jesus Christ is the firstfruits of the resurrection.

Jesus is the firstborn of many brethren.

Jesus is the Last Adam of an entirely new offspring.

Remember, the Scriptures are all about Jesus (John 5:39).

 

[Jason0047]

I think the critical difference is that: the Old Covenant never was able to save a soul, but the OT Saints were saved by belief in the Coming of the New Covenant: by having Faith in God and His plan, His Grace, His mercy, and His love. The Law could never save, just as the blood of bull could not remit sin. But it was by the same Faith that we have that the Patriarchs were saved. The Old Covenant was by the Spirit, but for the flesh, and could save the flesh, and bless the flesh.... but also condemn the flesh. The New Covenant is by the Spirit, and for the soul. It can save the soul, and bless the soul... and rejection of it is to condemn the soul.

I agree. I would just reword it differently. I believe the OT saint was ultimately saved by Christ's future sacrifice. For there is no name under Heaven whereby men can be saved but Jesus Christ. The OT saint was justified by faith in the Lord as being their Savior from sin just as the NT saint is justified by faith in the Lord as being their Savior. New Testament saints merely have more of the details or more of a complete picture of God's plan of Redemption being in the New. The Old was just a shadow of the body of Christ (Who was of the New) (See GWT (God's Word Translation) for Colossians 2:17). For there was never a Law or animal sacrifice that could save a person. Only Jesus Christ can save us. For the Aaronic priesthood was merely a "Type" of the True and Heavenly High Priest Jesus Christ (After the priestly order of Melchisedeck) who intercedes between God the Father and man forever.