A very critical difference between the old and new covenants

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A

AtonedFor

Guest
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jesus Christ take ALL of my sins
(past, present, and future) on his body at Calvary?
... I have a hard time swallowing the idea that ...
... the ability to lose our salvation seems even more out of character for God.
Okay, I will correct you ... Scripture warns that He did NOT cover your future sins.

That is man's problem ... playing God ... thinking in his flesh ... not trusting Scriptural warnings!

Believe it or not, throughout Scripture God is saying to you:

Choose ye this day who you will serve: Me or your flesh!


Here's something I came across yesterday ...
Galatians 5:24
"And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."


See, this is just another Scripture that does NOT yell and scream at you:
"You can lose your eternal life!"

Scripture is more tactful than that.
 
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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
Okay, I will correct you ... Scripture warns that He did NOT cover your future sins.

That is man's problem ... playing God ... thinking in his flesh ... not trusting what Scripture warns about ... etc.

Believe it or not, throughout Scripture is saying to you:
Choose ye this day who you will serve: Me or your flesh!

Here's something I came across yesterday ...
Galatians 5:24
"And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."


See, this is just another Scripture that does NOT yell and scream at you:
"You can lose your eternal life!"

Scripture is more tactful than that.
Well what do you know? We agree.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
Okay, I will correct you ... Scripture warns that He did NOT cover your future sins.
Well what do you know? We agree.
Has it occurred to you giants of theology that if He didn't die for your future sins, He didn't die for any of your sins? See if you can figure out that mental puzzle.

Meanwhile, I'll blow away your false premise with four verses.
Hebrews 10, NASB
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, ~~~
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.


You both flatly deny the Bible's clear teaching on the fact of eternal security, thereby making your "salvation" dependent upon the works of The Law and rejecting God's word while claiming to read in it what is not there.

Salvation is by faith through grace from God, through nothing of ourselves, and the only works we do are those inspired by our love for Him, the works He has prepared for us to do before we even knew Him (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Jesus says in John 10:27-29 His sheep hear His voice and follow Him, He gives them eternal life, and they will never perish! He says no one can snatch His sheep out of His hand, or out of the Father's hand. No one includes us.

You both preach heresy. I beg you to cease and desist, or at least take your lies elsewhere.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
Has it occurred to you giants of theology that if He didn't die for your future sins, He didn't die for any of your sins? See if you can figure out that mental puzzle.

Meanwhile, I'll blow away your false premise with four verses.
Hebrews 10, NASB
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, ~~~
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.


You both flatly deny the Bible's clear teaching on the fact of eternal security, thereby making your "salvation" dependent upon the works of The Law and rejecting God's word while claiming to read in it what is not there.

Salvation is by faith through grace from God, through nothing of ourselves, and the only works we do are those inspired by our love for Him, the works He has prepared for us to do before we even knew Him (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Jesus says in John 10:27-29 His sheep hear His voice and follow Him, He gives them eternal life, and they will never perish! He says no one can snatch His sheep out of His hand, or out of the Father's hand. No one includes us.

You both preach heresy. I beg you to cease and desist, or at least take your lies elsewhere.

Yes that scripture in Hebrews is talking about those who accept what the Lord did for us, and continue in His ways doing as His word said to receive that remission of sins. Repentance and Baptism to receive that remission of past sins ( Acts 2:38, Romans 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9 ), and confessing future sins to receive that remission ( 1 John 1:8-10, 2:1-2 ).
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
Jesus says in John 10:27-29
His sheep hear His voice and follow Him, He gives them eternal life,
and they will never perish! He says no one can snatch His sheep out of His hand,
or out of the Father's hand. No one includes us.

News Flash
God's promises are only for those who hear His voice, i.e. are led by His Spirit.
God's promises are only for those who co-operate with Him, i.e. follow Him.

End of News Flash

Hint of the Day:
Dose babies guzzling milk ought not throw stones at their seniors.


unnecessary rudeness removed by moderator
 
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Aug 26, 2014
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Okay, I will correct you ... Scripture warns that He did NOT cover your future sins.

That is man's problem ... playing God ... thinking in his flesh ... not trusting Scriptural warnings!

Believe it or not, throughout Scripture God is saying to you:

Choose ye this day who you will serve: Me or your flesh!


Here's something I came across yesterday ...
Galatians 5:24
"And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."


See, this is just another Scripture that does NOT yell and scream at you:
"You can lose your eternal life!"

Scripture is more tactful than that.
Sorry, but you corrected nothing in this post. The verses you quoted speak nothing to the issue at hand.
You've provided zero proof that Christ only covered my sins up to January 20, 1991 at a certain time of day and then told me I was on my own and I'd better behave myself or He'd toss me out. I see no evidence of God acting like a tyrannical step-father in Scripture.
I do, on the other hand, see such parables as those of the prodigal son. The prodigal son never ceased being his father's son and was welcomed back with open arms. You would have us believe God would set the dogs on such a person, so to speak.

Scripture is more tactful than that.
So God is quite clear in other matters, yet you claim He dances around the most important issue and central theme of the Bible??
 
Aug 26, 2014
392
4
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Yes that scripture in Hebrews is talking about those who accept what the Lord did for us, and continue in His ways doing as His word said to receive that remission of sins. Repentance and Baptism to receive that remission of past sins ( Acts 2:38, Romans 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9 ), and confessing future sins to receive that remission ( 1 John 1:8-10, 2:1-2 ).
So you're saying, in a roundabout way, that Christ did sacrifice Himself for all sins for all time. Otherwise, what good would mere confession do? Confession doesn't atone for sin. If it did, Christ wasted His time on the cross.

I have an interesting question for you to ponder, based on your assertions, though. Suppose you commit a sin and suddenly die? By your belief, you'd be cast into hell since you never had time to confess it and Christ's blood didn't quite get the job done atoning for it without your work of confession involved.
 

Chopper

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
402
11
18
How many times will you forgive your own child when they ask forgiveness? How many times will our Father will forgive us as we ask in the name of Yahushua, as we forgive others who trespass against us?

The forgiveness stops only when it is forced to stop, because forgiveness comes from love.
The only time love stops is when there is no more to give, or when it is no longer given the chance?
 
P

prodigal

Guest
Colossians 4

5Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. 6Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.

[h=1]John 13:34-35[/h] [SUP]34 [/SUP]A new commandment give I unto you, that ye love one another: as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]By this shall all men know, that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
So God is quite clear in other matters,
yet you claim He dances around the most important issue and central theme of the Bible??
God is NOT quite clear on several (many?) matters.
There are different levels of spiritual understanding, discernment, revelation, etc.
E.G. ever heard of milk and meat?
There are several "somewhat hidden" spiritual truths in the ... let's just talk about the NT.

E.G. pastors preach on a verse/passage, then 20 years later, see it in a totally different light.
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
Suppose you commit a sin and suddenly die? By your belief, you'd be cast into hell since you never had time to confess it and Christ's blood didn't quite get the job done atoning for it without your work of confession involved.
Believe it or not, but God does NOT delight in sending people to hell.
God looks upon the heart ... it's all about one's
heart attitude!
God is merciful, understanding, slow to anger, extends His grace, and etc.
 
Aug 26, 2014
392
4
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God is NOT quite clear on several (many?) matters.
There are different levels of spiritual understanding, discernment, revelation, etc.
E.G. ever heard of milk and meat?
There are several "somewhat hidden" spiritual truths in the ... let's just talk about the NT.

E.G. pastors preach on a verse/passage, then 20 years later, see it in a totally different light.
We're not talking about "several matters". We're talking about the central theme of the Bible. If God is an entity that likes to hide certain things about salvation and play mind games with it, then I would say He's not worthy of worship. We're talking about our eternal destinies here, not about trivial matters such as whether the church sanctuary should face east or north, for example.
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
If God is an entity that likes to hide certain things about salvation
and play mind games with it, then I would say He's not worthy of worship.
SOMEWHAT HIDE ... and it requires spiritual revelation to SEE the spiritual meaning.

News Flash for thou ...
ALL, ALL, ALL important spiritual Truth re: the new covenant
comes from/through Spiritual revelation from God.
I.E. God chooses who He gives the initial gift of faith (sorry, nothing to do with 1 Cor 12:9).
And this gift allows the person to see/understand that which is utter nonsense to others.

Unbelievers understand NOTHING about these things when they read the NT.
This, especially in these last days, includes Muslims.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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Amen and it also states clearly that he died unto SIN ONCE.....doesn't say some sins or part of your sins and God was reconciling the world unto himself with his master plan before the world was cast down........

To say that Christ did not die for the sins you would commit after salvation is ridiculous and a farce at best.......and if he did not pay for all sins except unbelief then how are ones sins paid for after salvation?

Has it occurred to you giants of theology that if He didn't die for your future sins, He didn't die for any of your sins? See if you can figure out that mental puzzle.

Meanwhile, I'll blow away your false premise with four verses.
Hebrews 10, NASB
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, ~~~
14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.


You both flatly deny the Bible's clear teaching on the fact of eternal security, thereby making your "salvation" dependent upon the works of The Law and rejecting God's word while claiming to read in it what is not there.

Salvation is by faith through grace from God, through nothing of ourselves, and the only works we do are those inspired by our love for Him, the works He has prepared for us to do before we even knew Him (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Jesus says in John 10:27-29 His sheep hear His voice and follow Him, He gives them eternal life, and they will never perish! He says no one can snatch His sheep out of His hand, or out of the Father's hand. No one includes us.

You both preach heresy. I beg you to cease and desist, or at least take your lies elsewhere.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
So you're saying, in a roundabout way, that Christ did sacrifice Himself for all sins for all time. Otherwise, what good would mere confession do? Confession doesn't atone for sin. If it did, Christ wasted His time on the cross.

I have an interesting question for you to ponder, based on your assertions, though. Suppose you commit a sin and suddenly die? By your belief, you'd be cast into hell since you never had time to confess it and Christ's blood didn't quite get the job done atoning for it without your work of confession involved.
Well they teach that and then will twist it and say no you have a certain amount of time to repent and make a confession....more fluff and heresy for sure....Christ died unto sins once and paid the price for every sin that would be committed for all the ages except UNBELIEF into JESUS........Blasphemy of the H.S. is unbelief as it attributes the work of Christ to the power of the devil and is a state of unbelief....!
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
... then how are ones sins paid for after salvation?
"But IF we (continue to) walk in the light as He is in the light,
we (continue to) have fellowship with one another,
and
the blood of Jesus Christ His Son (continues to) cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we (continue to) confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just to (continue to)
forgive us our sins and to (continue to) cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
(1 John 1:7-2:1)

Derek Prince explained that the Greek verbs here are all continuous verbs.

BACs must confess and repent of their sins in order to maintain their righteousness before God.
Throughout the whole Bible ... sinners are unrighteous! ... obedient believers are righteous!


Is the new covenant SO much different than the old covenant?
Does God say that His believers now can continue to sin?


Proverbs 28:13 “He who covers his sins will not prosper,
but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.”

Ezekiel 18:23-31
“Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God,
“and not that he should turn from his ways and live? …
“Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed,
and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit.”
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
"But IF we (continue to) walk in the light as He is in the light,
we (continue to) have fellowship with one another,
and
the blood of Jesus Christ His Son (continues to) cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we (continue to) confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just to (continue to)
forgive us our sins and to (continue to) cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
(1 John 1:7-2:1)

Derek Prince explained that the Greek verbs here are all continuous verbs.

BACs must confess and repent of their sins in order to maintain their righteousness before God.
Throughout the whole Bible ... sinners are unrighteous! ... obedient believers are righteous!


Is the new covenant SO much different than the old covenant?
Does God say that His believers now can continue to sin?


Proverbs 28:13 “He who covers his sins will not prosper,
but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.”

Ezekiel 18:23-31
“Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God,
“and not that he should turn from his ways and live? …
“Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed,
and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit.”
Forgiven, paid for and cleanse are different words and My bible teaches that the sin debt has been PAID in full......so no offence, but Jesus and Paul I have heard of...Derek Prince is not a man that was inspired.....JESUS died unto SIN ONCE and if a sin after SALVATION HAS NOT ALREADY BEEN PAID FOR then JESUS must CONTINUALLY HANG ON THE CROSS.....!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
"But IF we (continue to) walk in the light as He is in the light,
we (continue to) have fellowship with one another,
and
the blood of Jesus Christ His Son (continues to) cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we (continue to) confess (repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just to (continue to)
forgive us our sins and to (continue to) cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
(1 John 1:7-2:1)

Derek Prince explained that the Greek verbs here are all continuous verbs.

BACs must confess and repent of their sins in order to maintain their righteousness before God.
Throughout the whole Bible ... sinners are unrighteous! ... obedient believers are righteous!


Is the new covenant SO much different than the old covenant?
Does God say that His believers now can continue to sin?


Proverbs 28:13 “He who covers his sins will not prosper,
but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.”

Ezekiel 18:23-31
“Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God,
“and not that he should turn from his ways and live? …
“Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed,
and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit.”
Not to mention that the underlined above contradicts the fact that I am found in the RIGHTEOUSNESS of Christ based upon salvation and justification found in the FAITH OF CHRIST Galatians 2:16-21...........
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
Hebrews 12:3-11, "For consider Him Who endured such opposition against Himself from sinners, so that you would not become weary, and faint in your minds. You yourselves have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as unto sons: My son, do not despise the chastening of Yahweh, nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom Yahweh loves, He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives. If you endure chastening, Yahweh deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons. Furthermore, we have had fleshly fathers who corrected us, and we gave them reverence; should we not even more be subject to Father Yahweh, and live? For they truly chastened us for a few days as they thought best; but He, for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening seems to be joyful at the present time, but grievous; nevertheless, afterward it produces the peaceable fruit of righteousness, that is, for those who have been trained by it"


Hebrews 12:12-17, "Therefore, strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And follow the straight paths made for your feet, so that the lame may not be turned out of the way, but rather may be healed. Follow peace with all men; and holiness, without which no one will see Yahweh: Searching diligently, so that no one falls short of the honor of Yahweh; so that no root of bitterness grows up to cause trouble--for because of this, many are defiled; So that there is no a, fornicator nor profane person, like Esau, Who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected; for he found no way for repentance, though with tears sought it out."

Hebrews 10:26-31, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living Father."

LOVE YOU ALL `HIZ OUT!
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
So you're saying, in a roundabout way, that Christ did sacrifice Himself for all sins for all time. Otherwise, what good would mere confession do? Confession doesn't atone for sin. If it did, Christ wasted His time on the cross.

I have an interesting question for you to ponder, based on your assertions, though. Suppose you commit a sin and suddenly die? By your belief, you'd be cast into hell since you never had time to confess it and Christ's blood didn't quite get the job done atoning for it without your work of confession involved.

The problem is you guys want to always interject what if's......
If you are walking properly with the Holy Spirit guiding you, then you should not have to worry about committing a sin and not having time to confess it. Plus the Lord said He will have mercy on who He will have mercy, so I do not take the life and death decision out of His hand. But I also teach as Paul did, and that is to tell believers not to use their liberty as an excuse to sin or not to do something His Word says to do....