What law is written on the heart?

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michael56

Banned
#81
Feb 5, 2015
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#81
gotime said:
You tell me?
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You are a minister(you say) yet you refuse to answer a very simple question.

I am afraid for me, that epitomises the problems you have created for yourself in this thread. No minister could refuse to answer that question in all good conscience if asked. You do if we are honest, because it has left you in an impossible position. Ministers cannot afford to let that worry them. They have to boldly state what they believe, not deflect away from answering any way they can.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#82
Mar 3, 2011
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#82
michael56 said:
You are a minister(you say) yet you refuse to answer a very simple question.

I am afraid for me, that epitomises the problems you have created for yourself in this thread. No minister could refuse to answer that question in all good conscience if asked. You do if we are honest, because it has left you in an impossible position. Ministers cannot afford to let that worry them. They have to boldly state what they believe, not deflect away from answering any way they can.
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no it has not left me in an impossible situation at all. at first I did not get what exactly you were asking and when I asked you did not make it any clearer. but you already know the answer to your question don't you.

You don't want to know you already know.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#83
Mar 3, 2011
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#83
If you answer your question then I will give my answer also.

I get what you are asking now.
 
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michael56

Banned
#84
Feb 5, 2015
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#84
gotime said:
If you answer your question then I will give my answer also.

I get what you are asking now.
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You see, you have ended up in an impossible position in this thread. Because you could not refute the basic spiritual truth that through the law we become conscious of sin, thereby knowing which laws have been placed on our heart, you have ended up making reckless statements that you cannot address.

All you have shown to me, is that when we have errant views we end up in such a position as you have here.

Let me repeat. I think it is wonderful you feel blessed to have a specific Saturday Sabbath, but by you trying to insist all must do this you have ended up here with nowhere to go.

Anyone can quote the literal letter selectively, Muslims do it often, as well as other religions. However, spiritual truth/reality proves that you have not quoted it with understanding concerning the new covenant the Christian is under

I have to go to church now.

God Bless
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#85
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#85
michael56 said:
You see, you have ended up in an impossible position in this thread. Because you could not refute the basic spiritual truth that through the law we become conscious of sin, thereby knowing which laws have been placed on our heart, you have ended up making reckless statements that you cannot address.

All you have shown to me, is that when we have errant views we end up in such a position as you have here.

Let me repeat. I think it is wonderful you feel blessed to have a specific Saturday Sabbath, but by you trying to insist all must do this you have ended up here with nowhere to go.

Anyone can quote the literal letter selectively, Muslims do it often, as well as other religions. However, spiritual truth/reality proves that you have not quoted it with understanding concerning the new covenant the Christian is under

I have to go to church now.

God Bless
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Interesting that you refuse to answer your own question.
 
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michael56

Banned
#86
Feb 5, 2015
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#86
gotime said:
Interesting that you refuse to answer your own question.
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lol, it was asked to you, who say you are a minister, yet you have no answer for it has left you in an impossible position. What stops you from admitting that?
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#87
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#87
nothing worse than setting a trap and falling into it yourself.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#88
Mar 3, 2011
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#88
I will answer it now that I get what you are asking straight after you answer it.
 
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michael56

Banned
#89
Feb 5, 2015
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#89
gotime said:
nothing worse than setting a trap and falling into it yourself.
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Let us leave it to the independent observer as to what they think. But if you are asked a question based on a statement you have written, I can only repeat, a minister should have the courage to answer it, unless of course he is led of the flesh to evade answering it rather than admit his error
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#90
Mar 3, 2011
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#90
Why are you refusing to answer your own question?
 
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michael56

Banned
#91
Feb 5, 2015
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#91
gotime said:
Why are you refusing to answer your own question?
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Now I really must go to church. But Gotime, if you took any advice from me(which you probably would not) you would see, that your continued statements do not enhance your credibility in this thread
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#92
Mar 3, 2011
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#92
If you will not answer then neither will I. ball is in your court.
 
Brother_Don

Brother_Don

Banned
#93
Jul 27, 2011
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Daniel 9:4, Matthew 19:17, Matthew 22:40, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 1:25,But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it- not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it-they will be blessed in what they do. James 2:8-12, James 4:11, James 4:12, There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and destroy. But you- who are you to judge your neighbor?
 
GracethroughfaithinChrist

GracethroughfaithinChrist

Senior Member
#94
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
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#94
Romans 10:1-13
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Jesus Christ is the only man who was able to fulfill the requirements of the law of Moses....... every iota.
Righteousness is imputed to man from God solely based on faith and not on works of the law of Moses. The law was a curse to make all men guilty before God, to cause them to surrender to God through faith in Christ after acknowledging they are guilty of sin and need God to save them (like David did). The people that received the law of Moses in the desert all died and without mercy because they weren't willing to live by faith but instead wanted instructions and got what they deserved, laws they could not keep that brought death for unbelief. If you teach men to follow the same laws of Moses to be justified......Christ is of no effect to you, you have become alienated from Him and have fallen from grace. Do you practice what you preach you who boast in the law? No, only outwardly at best but inside you are liars,covetous,murderers,adulterers, thieves,dishonorable to parents,love yourself more than God,idolaters, and everything you claim that you are not outwardly (let all men be liars and let God be true). God looks at the inside and says to Pharisees like you to clean the inside of the cup.

In the op you quoted Matthew 5. Take a good look at what Jesus is saying there (read thoroughly through the Greek as well). He is making clear that He is changing the law of Moses that He gave Moses at Sinai/Horeb. After Matthew 5 it became illegal to even think sin in your heart. It tightens the law of Moses to make all men guilty before God forever with the exception of Christ.

Repent and believe don't lie to yourself and attempt to deceive. Embrace the simplicity of Christ through faith working in love.
 
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michael56

Banned
#95
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
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#95
gotime said:
If you will not answer then neither will I. ball is in your court.
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God does not force but you refuse to acknowledge that not keeping the Sabbath is sin. You reject the law of God as a reprover of sin and thus you reject Gods writing it on your heart.

Let me help you out here. No Christian minister I have ever known of heard of would believe a person could be a Christian if they rejected the law of God as a reprove of sin, and thus rejected God's writing of it on their heart. I am sure no SDA minister would believe it either.
You stated the above emboldened concerning me because I do not accept specifically saturday Sabbath. Therefore, you must believe everyone on cc who does not set aside Saturday as a specific Sabbath cannot be saved/a Christian. Either that, or you do believe a Christian can reject the law of God as a prover of sin and thus reject God's writing of it on their heart, but be saved by doing so.
Yet on cc you accept people as Christians who do not set aside Saturday as Sabbath day. Therefore, I have to assume you are different from any minister I have ever known(including sda ministers) and believe a person can reject the law of God as a prover of sin, and thus reject God's writing that on their heart, and yet be a Christian. But that totally contradicts so many of the scriptures you put forth to support your views.

Gotime, I do not mean this unkindly, you need to sort your theology/doctrine out. To say the least, it is in a terrible muddle
 
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michael56

Banned
#96
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
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#96
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gotime said:
If you will not answer then neither will I. ball is in your court.
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God does not force but you refuse to acknowledge that not keeping the Sabbath is sin. You reject the law of God as a reprover of sin and thus you reject Gods writing it on your heart.


btw
Your whole understanding is faulty. A person asks Christ into their life as Lord and Saviour. The law God requires them to follow is immediately placed on their heart and written on their mind. The notion that a convert is then going to decide which law they consciously decide to accept and reject is nonsensical. It has been placed on their heart. You can disobey, but then you have heartfelt conviction of your sin by doing so
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#97
#97
Jeff_56 said:
it doesn't matter what i think. you have repeatedly denied what the Word of God clearly says when anyone has posted it for you.

You don't even counter what they post, you have no answer for the Scripture nor for them most of the time if ever -

apparently you only choose to believe what protects your sinfulness,

and you pick verses that you think do that.

God's discipline or His judgment is certain, according to His Wisdom and Word.
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Well post some scripture to make your points... because that's all that matters in this discussion.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#98
#98
michael56 said:
You are a minister(you say) yet you refuse to answer a very simple question.

I am afraid for me, that epitomises the problems you have created for yourself in this thread. No minister could refuse to answer that question in all good conscience if asked. You do if we are honest, because it has left you in an impossible position. Ministers cannot afford to let that worry them. They have to boldly state what they believe, not deflect away from answering any way they can.
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1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

No one who teaches the law, can answer in honesty real biblical questions.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#99
#99
Brother_Don said:
Daniel 9:4, Matthew 19:17, Matthew 22:40, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 1:25,But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it- not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it-they will be blessed in what they do. James 2:8-12, James 4:11, James 4:12, There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and destroy. But you- who are you to judge your neighbor?
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Do you think the perfect law of liberty is the legal code of the law of Moses? Or the New Testament written in the Blood of Jesus Christ?

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#100
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#100
gotime said:
So then what happens when the Spirit comes into us?

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The one who is free from the law of sin/breaking the law has the law fulfilled in them just as the OP said.

see in the flesh we are captive to the law of sin which brings death as Paul said:

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

But when the Spirit comes the inward man gains the strength who delights in the law of God:

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.




So the Spirit strengthens the inward man, so now no longer in captivity to the law of sin we are free from sin in the spirit. As you can see the word lines up everywhere.

So no God does not put the law of sin and death on our hearts that was there before that is why the letter could not save it simply revealed that we had the law of sin and death on our hearts by nature. but when we accept Christ the law of God is written on our heats and we obey it by His Spirit.

see it all lines up.

you said "Because the 10 commandments aren't written on our hearts. "

This shows you have not yet understood the role of the 10 commandments. you speak as if they are bad. Paul said they were glorious, good, holy, just.

The problem is they can't save or change you they just show that you are a slave to the law of sin/sin. But when they are on the heart you are free from sin cause the Spirit writes those same laws on your heart. Praise God. no longer slaves to sin.
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The 10 commandments aren't bad. The 10 commandments are good. But there is only One that is good. That is our problem.

And I agree that the one who is free from the law has the law fulfilled in them. But its not the 10 commandments that are written on our hearts. Its Love. Love fulfills the law.

Romans 13:8-10
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Your own verse that you quoted shows you,

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,


The 10 commandments are designed for a reason. They show sin. That is why Paul called them the law of sin and death. That is why Paul said the Letter is unto Death but the Spirit is unto Life.

You can write those letters on a piece of paper, on stone, on your heart, or anywhere else and they are going to do the same thing. Each time, every time. They are going to point out sin. Condemnation. And Death.

The power of sin is what? The Law. One big work the Lord Jesus Christ does is remove sin from our hearts. But if we turn back to the law to try and work at it, the law has no choice but to show us our sin.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. The 10 commandments don't ever stop being the ministration of condemnation.

If you read Ephesians 3 more carefully you might see it.
 
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