Prophets

[DiscipleDave]

I, DiscipleDave, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed ... as long as it is not contrary to my personal religious beliefs or contrary to the teachings of that belief.

Thats not written in there though is it?

Or did you just add that in?

That is NOT written in there, however it should be in that type of oath.

I dont know I didnt check, I am really bad at reading long oath type contracts after the first few lines

Same here.

And I ask that because I mean if it was while you placed yourself in their service and under their authority (voluntarily subjecting yourself to their oath) you wouldnt have been dishonourably discharged if that was really added in there would you have?

That was not added in there, i added it in there.

But were you?

I actually forget whether you said you were or not, I have to go back and read

or just ask me. Yes i was honorable discharged from the Air Force, but after 8 years in the National Guard i was dishonorably discharged, because i told them that i would not kill anyone in the event that i was ordered to do so. So they let me go. That is not the reason they wanted me gone. though, i was a Jesus Freak and nobody liked it. So they found a way to get rid of me, by asking me a question they knew how i would answer, then Fired me, sort of speaking.

I cant compare marraige to the millitary , that just seems weird to do that.

i was not comparing marriage to the military, i was comparing the OATHS made from each. Both make an oath, both choose to sign/agree to the oath. And even though both made an oath to obey, they do not have to obey if they are commanded to do something that they consider sinful. It is a good comparison, if we are talking about the OATHS, which i was.

Well, you know, the two becoming one flesh in something God ordained between a man and a woman where its not something you are discharged from.

Again was talking about the Oath made when you get married, and when you sign up in the military. Not discussing anything concerning the marriage, or life in the military.

I know a covenant is also used between a husband and a wife

Ecc 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.

Ecc 5:5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.

Then Jesus said,

Mat 5:33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

Mat 5:34-36 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

James 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

Wouldnt that be like stating a YES I will serve in the millitary or a NO I will not (or a yes or a no) but I refuse to swear an oath to do so?

Or even a YES I take this man (or this woman ) to be my husband/ wife (to marry) and be one flesh with (as before God) but I wont swear an oath or take a vow to do so?

Not that it much matters its still till death do us part (either way)

Speaks of the wife of a mans "covenant"

I really need to brush up on this stuff, this is not good I am sitting here exposing my ignorance like this lol

It is very wise to expose ones ignorance, else how will they gain the knowledge if they do not ask. One who asks a question because they are ignorant of the answer, is wise and intelligent, because they are asking to gain that knowledge. One who has a question because they don't know the answer, and does not ask, remains ignorant and is not wise.

When the Bible speaks about swearing to something, This is referring to a person defending themselves. How to explain?

A person whose no's are not no's and whose yeses or not yeses

I did not take that pencil.
I did not take that paper.
And i swear on my Mothers Grave, that i did not take that lamp.

Now notice that person did not say "I swear i did not take that pencil" or "I swear i did not take that paper" Because that person said "I swear I did not take that lamp" makes that person seem guilty on the other parts that they did not swear too. Everything you say, should be the Truth, you should not have to swear to prove you are telling the Truth, to defend yourself, that what you are saying is the Truth "I swear to God" opposed to what? Everything else you say is not the Truth. That is why True Christians are instructed to not swear at all, let you yes be yes and your no be no. be honest all the time, and you will not have to swear at all.

A person whose no's are no's and whose yeses are yeses

I did not take that pencil.
I did not take that paper.
I did not take that lamp.

And because people KNOW this person does not lie, and that this persons yes means yes, and that persons no means no, they believe that person as telling the Truth.

Responding to Post# 222

 

[DesiredHaven]

Hey thanks for the response

 

[DiscipleDave]

The Highwayman said :

Dave nothing you state here changes anything, I have tested everything you have stated through scripture and you fall short...and you fall short big time.....you need to repent and seek the one true God and not gnostic experiences that have opened the door and pathways for the devil to decievie you....

If you say i need to repent, i am willing to do just that, please tell me what sin that i committed (Scriptures please) so i will know how to properly ask for forgiveness for it. i am willing to repent, but if you don't tell me what sin i did, how can i repent of it?
And you repeatedly accuse me of being wrong and the such, yet have not given one Inspired by God Scriptures that contradicts even one thing that i have said, not one. So can we conclude then, what i say YOU THINK is wrong, but Scriptures does not say is wrong. YOU not Scriptures. If then you do think it is Scriptures, then by all means, show even one verse that contradicts anything that i have said, just one. If You can't show Scriptures, then let it be known it is your opinion that i have fallen short, and NOT based on Scriptures.

Responding to Post# 229

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said :

Believe as you will, but when i was very young, and went to a Christian camp for two week, what i saw of Christians there made me want to give up Christianity for ever, if being a Christian was like that, i wanted not part of it, then an Angel of God talked with me, then i was back on track, where He wanted me to be. The other time, was in 1994, when He told me that i must stop sinning, i ran from him then, wanted nothing to do with it, i was not willing to give up sinning. i lived like the devil then, nothing to stop me, if i was running from God, i wasn't going to live Godly. After many months is this LOST condition, God sent an Angel to me, and the Angels one statement got me back on Track again, i stopped living like the devil, and started on the path of righteousness, because of that Angel of God. But there are always consequences to your actions, because i ran in 1994, i have not communicated with Him since, He will not speak with me as He did before. crying now. i should never have ran, oh how i would that He speak with me as He did before, i have repented crying and weeping, i have repented a million times, He still will not speak to me. crying some more now. i know full well how sorrowful Adam was when he was kicked out of the Garden of Eden, one mess up, and never again will he step foot in the Garden. i communicated with God on a regular basis, then i ran, and have never heard from Him again. sorry, i am done for the night.

these statements prove you avhe no understanding of the Bible...Angles do not do the job of the Holy Spirit...

i have not claimed to be an Angel expert, as you seem to know more about Angels then i do because you said

Angles do not do the job of the Holy Spirit.

. Where did you come up with that knowledge? Where is that written? Who told you that? From where does that knowledge come from?
You say

these statements prove you avhe no understanding of the Bible..

Tell me, how does any of what i have said above PROVE that i have no understanding of the Bible? What i said above, is concerning what two Angels of God did for me. What does that have to do with my understanding of the Bible? NOTHING. you are being silly, joking right? Surely you can't possibly believe because i testify to what two Angels of God has done for me, PROVES to you that i do not understand the Bible, how old are you really? it helps to know if i am speaking with a kid, adult, or an elder.
But here is the Truth, with your statement, reveals that you do not know much about the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit of God only operates in a person when that Spirit is NOT being grieved. know you not that a person can grieve the Holy Spirit? Know you not you can ignore the Holy Ghost. Every time you are about to commit a sin, and that small voice that is telling you that is sinful, don't do it, yet you do it anyways, is grieving the Holy Spirit of God, if it be in you? Did i not say, i was living like the devil, when i ran from God, or were you not listening to that part? i was going to the bar every night, drinking, telling dirty jokes, fornicating. i was NOT listening to the HOLY Ghost, as i plainly said, i was running from God, So God sent an Angels to give me a message (Because i sure was not listening to the Spirit of God now was i). Are not Angels, considered to be Messengers? Yes they are. Do you not know the Bible teaches that? And in both examples i give, they both had a message for me, that changed my life forever. you do not know the Truth, because the Truth has no place in you. pray for me, as i will pray for you.

Responding to Post# 230

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said :

You will know who is false, if they teach ANYTHING that is contrary to the Word of God. The Word of God is what you use to test them. If they are saying ANYTHING that is contrary to sound doctrine, they are false. However there are they that are True and not false. And many will accuse them of teaching things contrary to Scriptures and call them false, but those who are True, do not teach anything that is contrary to Scriptures, but most assuredly contrary to what people today call Truth.

I think what you are saying is false. Or at least, overstating your case.

Which part do you think is false?

The false teachers of II Peter 2 aren't just people who are off a bit in their doctrine. They are damned and they are leading others into error and sin.

ALL my teaching is against sinning, As is ALL the Bible is against sinning as well.

Teachers who teach error will be held to a higher standard of judgment. But a 'false teacher' is someone who shouldn't be a teacher at all.

Anyone who teaches error concerning Scriptures, is a FALSE teacher and should not be teaching at all. And know this, ANYONE who teaches false doctrines that causes others to believe in that false doctrine, will not only be held to a higher standard of Judgement, but will also suffer more greatly than those who believed that false doctrine.

Do you think that if a teacher disagrees with you on a point of doctrine, that he is false, or do you only count 'big doctrines' as 'Truth.'

You seem intelligent enough to think hypothetically, so lets try.
Tonight while you are in prayer, God says your name, you are looking around as if someone is in the room, but there is nobody there. you sit there eyes wide open, wandering what you just heard, and then He says your name again, this time you answer, and then He starts telling you many things, mostly what is to come, He also tells you many times to start LOVING ONE ANOTHER. He also mentions to you the sin that so easily besets you, and tells you to cease from it. So He speaks to you concerning the prophesies in the Bible, He tells you many things that are not even in the Bible, that is going to happen in the future, He then tells you teach what He has told you to anyone who will listen. Then says I LOVE YOU.
You speak to everyone that you can, you get on chat sites, you start a website to run what He told you 24/7 You have Bible studies, you do all that is in your power to reach to people the Truths in which He told you.
Now you are on a message board, and the topic is the antichrist, you then begin to teach everything that the God told you concerning the antichrist, lets say in all that you said, you tell them that the antichrist will come out of Rome. And someone asks you "Where do you find that in Scriptures?" or "How do you know that?" What will you say? Seriously what will you say to them who are asking you those questions. What would Jesus want you to do? He would want you to tell the Truth. But you know full well if you tell them the Truth, that "God told you" you are going to be mocked, made fun of, laughed at, and now your credibility in EVERYTHING you teach is skeptical. But you answer HONESTLY, despite what they will think of you, and you tell them that God told you, which is the Truth.
Now lets hypothetical think about this. what if someone asked you

Do you think that if a teacher disagrees with you on a point of doctrine, that he is false, ... . .. . . .

So tell me this, if you repeat what God told you that the antichrist will come out of Rome, and i disagree with that, am i disagreeing with YOU or disagreeing with HIM that told you thing?
Therefore anyone who disagrees with what i teach, does not disagree with me, but with HIM who told me those things.
Then there are those who say to you "What you are teaching, that the antichrist comes out of Rome" Does not line up with the Bible, therefore what you teach is WRONG, and you do not understand the Bible. But notice that what you said that the antichrist comes out of Rome, does not Contradict the Bible at all. God told you the Truth.

Please NOTE: the antichrist coming out of Rome is hypothetical, i made it up, it is false, not real, not from God. i should not even have to say all that, but i know what generation i am dealing with, and therefore have said it, before the stone throwing begins.

Responding to Post# 232

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said

You say "just one of the twelve. Paul was Never one of the Twelve, yet he was an Apostle, because he saw Jesus Christ and spoke with Him, Paul must not have ever heard or seen Him speak in while He was walking the Earth, either, because Paul did not even recognize Him, when he saw Him, True He could have looked differently. But you say there is a list of requirements to be an Apostle, where? Because as far as i know, all those who were called Apostles seen Jesus Christ.

There is a list of requirements to replace Judas in Acts 1. I don't see a list of requirements to be an apostle in the broader sense in scripture, but we can infer things about apostles from what the Bible teaches.

In I Corinthians 15, Paul says that Jesus appeared to the 12 before appearing to Himself. Judas was likely dead before the resurrection, but we know that Matthias was a witness of the resurrection.

The Bible calls both Paul and Barnabas 'apostles', but we don't know if Barnabas saw Jesus. We don't know if the other people called apostles who aren't part of the 12 saw Jesus: Apollos, Timothy, Silas. The exception to that would be James the Lord's brother, who is probably the James who saw Jesus listed in I Corinthians 15.

That is exactly what i was saying. i made the comment to be an Apostle one had to have seen Jesus Christ, i only say that because of the list requirements that the 11 Apostles used to replace Judas and become the 12th Apostle, and one of the requirements, is that they have seen Jesus Christ coming and going. i would imagine, that same requirement should be for all those who were made Apostles thereafter, NO, i am not certain on that, but pretty sure of it. IMO not from the Lord.

Responding to Post# 233

 

[DiscipleDave]

Strange..... some people staunchly demand scripture for everything , then take it for granted that apostles HAD to see Jesus alive in order to be an apostle.

who has done this? And as to one having to see Jesus alive to be an Apostle, that is one of the Requirements listed when the 11 Apostle replaced Judas.

Paul gets "permission" from the modern church because Jesus 'appeared' to him. Then, the instant judgement is made that Jesus doesn't appear to anyone outside the Bible 'cuz they say so. How convenient...... & all without a single scripture. There's a name for people like that.....

Yes, the name is they are WRONG. Jesus can appear to whomever Jesus wants to appear to, He is God. Tell me, to whom are you referring to in this post?

Responding to Post# 234

 

[DiscipleDave]

Yes I did say people should study the Greek and Hebrew, but and this is the big part of it, letting the Holy Spirit guide them in that study. The bible says we are to take and be ready to shut down false teaching, so how does one do that if they do not know the original Greek and Hebrew words and their full meaning to counteract those who misuse them. We would not be able to.

Yet i have been able to do just that without ever bringing up the Hebrew and Greek? As i said before, 99% of the time i can refute false teaching through Scriptures that God gave us today, without ever going to the Hebrew and Greek to do so.

I have seen few who have misused the meanings of pisteuo (belief) and echo for their understanding of how these Greek words are used and applied in scripture. Pisteuo they use to say just believe in something, but the full meaning is a continuation of believing in something (Lord) that leads unto something (salvation). And they use echo to say just to have in hand, but the full definition is to have in hand as a mental possession/assurance of. Put together they give the full context of continuing to believe in the Lord will assure one of receiving salvation. If what I just said is not the true definition as some debate and say it is not for salvation is physically ours now, then many other scriptures would contradict this.

i understand what you are saying, i have studied Hebrew and Greek as well, But the Truth is, even with your above example, i can use Scriptures to reveal exactly what you have learned using the Hebrew and Greek. Scriptures teach what it Truly means to believe in Jesus, one can learn that Truth, without ever going to the Hebrew and Greek. Is my point.

I never said the biblical scholars did not study Hebrew and Greek, as what I actually said is that we need to use caution and let the Holy Spirit give us the understanding of the word.

i never said that you said that. And yes in everything you do, do in the Spirit.

Else even if you study the original you will still end up in false understanding.

and my point is for the most part that studying the original only causes more confusion, which is not of God. i teach that one is better off to merely study the Word of God in prayer and in the Holy Spirit. i teach that the BEST way to the Truth is through the HOLY Ghost and the Word of God, ONLY. sure there are many outside sources, ie, Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic/Books/Magazines/Pamphlets/Internet/TV/Radio/Sermons/Preachers/Humans. But the BEST way,is through the Word of God with the help of the Holy Ghost.

The other thing was the planets you say we all get,

. .. .. . sigh . .. . . .

as I said I do not agree because no biblical evidence for one and the other is that which is perfect comes no more prophecy is left to be fulfilled. If we get our own planets then that would mean a prophecy will still be left to fulfill after the New Heaven and Earth come. Can not be as all prophecy is fulfilled at this point.

You do error not knowing the Scriptures. Whatever verse you are using that says

that which is perfect comes no more prophecy is left to be fulfilled

YOU are interpreting it incorrectly. Please inform me what Scriptures you are referring to. when you say "that which is perfect comes" are you referring to Jesus? if so, you are correct. But where you are wrong in what you believe concerning prophesies END when He comes. There are prophesies that are to be fulfilled AFTER HE gets here. Such as satan being bound for a thousand years is AFTER Christ gets here. There are prophesies of Christ reigning on the Earth, there are prophesies concerning the Earth AFTER Christ gets here. There are prophesies AFTER JESUS is HERE, that talk about satan being released from the abyss, and prophesies concerning the war that comes afterwards. All of these prophesies are to be fulfilled AFTER that which is perfect has came. To say they END when He comes, is in error and is not the Truth. So if i prophesy something about what the Kingdom of Heaven is like, i am wrong because why? Even according to your own thinking, if prophesies are to cease when that which is perfect is come, has Jesus CAME to get His Church yet? So then prophesies are still active, yes? Or are you thinking He has already came, when He walked the Earth, and that is when the perfect came and prophesies ceased. One problem with that belief. Christ has came prior to that. Jesus walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, that which is perfect came then. Also Melchizedek was Jesus Christ, setting up the priesthood that Jesus Christ would later be born into, a priest that abideth forever. It is witnessed that Melchizedek was a priest of the Most High God, to which Abraham gave a tenth (tithe) to Him. And saying a priest, when there was no temple on Earth at that time, reveals who He actually was. He was a priest of the Most High God in the Temple in Heaven. Anyways off topic. The Bible is filled with prophesies concerning the human race, concerning the battle of Good verses evil, and the outcome of that. There are no prophesies concerning things AFTER the human race has cease to exist, what is Heaven actually like, what we will DO there. making a passing comment about the Saints getting their own planet (a gnat in importance) is AFTER humankind is gone, AFTER the Bible ceases to exist. The Bible was created to, and for the human race, no more human race, no more need of the Bible. And that is True, but let us see how many stones are thrown because i say the Truth. Do you even know what the New Heaven and the New Earth entails according to Scriptures? read the article called New Heaven and New Earth Very scary stuff is about to fall upon the Earth. Responding to Post# 240

 

[DiscipleDave]

Hey thanks for the response

You are most welcome, you are very kind. ^i^

 

[DiscipleDave]

I Cor 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Its been revealed to me, where you error. You think this verse means prophesies will cease to be, that is NOT what it is saying at all. Right now i have the gift of prophesy, i only know part, i do not know ALL, i only prophesy in part, because i do not know ALL. When Jesus comes, and i get my Glorified Body, i will not know in part any more, knowing in part shall be done away with, because i will know ALL then, i will be like He is. Right now i know in part, right now i prophesy in part, when He comes, believing in part will cease, because i will know in FULL. That is what those verses mean, to say they mean knowing and prophesies END after He comes is in error and is an incorrect interpretation of the Word of God. Do you believe as you do, because you have taken those verses to the Hebrew and Greek? If you did, you would have made my point for me. That it causes more harm then it does good.

^i^

 

[presidente]

DiscipleDave,

If one person teaches that the beat of Revelation will come out of Rome and another teaches that he will come out of the middle east, is one or both of them a false teacher?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yet i have been able to do just that without ever bringing up the Hebrew and Greek? As i said before, 99% of the time i can refute false teaching through Scriptures that God gave us today, without ever going to the Hebrew and Greek to do so. i understand what you are saying, i have studied Hebrew and Greek as well, But the Truth is, even with your above example, i can use Scriptures to reveal exactly what you have learned using the Hebrew and Greek. Scriptures teach what it Truly means to believe in Jesus, one can learn that Truth, without ever going to the Hebrew and Greek. Is my point. i never said that you said that. And yes in everything you do, do in the Spirit. and my point is for the most part that studying the original only causes more confusion, which is not of God. i teach that one is better off to merely study the Word of God in prayer and in the Holy Spirit. i teach that the BEST way to the Truth is through the HOLY Ghost and the Word of God, ONLY. sure there are many outside sources, ie, Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic/Books/Magazines/Pamphlets/Internet/TV/Radio/Sermons/Preachers/Humans. But the BEST way,is through the Word of God with the help of the Holy Ghost. . .. .. . sigh . .. . . . You do error not knowing the Scriptures. Whatever verse you are using that says YOU are interpreting it incorrectly. Please inform me what Scriptures you are referring to. when you say "that which is perfect comes" are you referring to Jesus? if so, you are correct. But where you are wrong in what you believe concerning prophesies END when He comes. There are prophesies that are to be fulfilled AFTER HE gets here. Such as satan being bound for a thousand years is AFTER Christ gets here. There are prophesies of Christ reigning on the Earth, there are prophesies concerning the Earth AFTER Christ gets here. There are prophesies AFTER JESUS is HERE, that talk about satan being released from the abyss, and prophesies concerning the war that comes afterwards. All of these prophesies are to be fulfilled AFTER that which is perfect has came. To say they END when He comes, is in error and is not the Truth. So if i prophesy something about what the Kingdom of Heaven is like, i am wrong because why? Even according to your own thinking, if prophesies are to cease when that which is perfect is come, has Jesus CAME to get His Church yet? So then prophesies are still active, yes? Or are you thinking He has already came, when He walked the Earth, and that is when the perfect came and prophesies ceased. One problem with that belief. Christ has came prior to that. Jesus walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, that which is perfect came then. Also Melchizedek was Jesus Christ, setting up the priesthood that Jesus Christ would later be born into, a priest that abideth forever. It is witnessed that Melchizedek was a priest of the Most High God, to which Abraham gave a tenth (tithe) to Him. And saying a priest, when there was no temple on Earth at that time, reveals who He actually was. He was a priest of the Most High God in the Temple in Heaven. Anyways off topic. The Bible is filled with prophesies concerning the human race, concerning the battle of Good verses evil, and the outcome of that. There are no prophesies concerning things AFTER the human race has cease to exist, what is Heaven actually like, what we will DO there. making a passing comment about the Saints getting their own planet (a gnat in importance) is AFTER humankind is gone, AFTER the Bible ceases to exist. The Bible was created to, and for the human race, no more human race, no more need of the Bible. And that is True, but let us see how many stones are thrown because i say the Truth. Do you even know what the New Heaven and the New Earth entails according to Scriptures? read the article called New Heaven and New Earth Very scary stuff is about to fall upon the Earth. Responding to Post# 240

This is where you show you did not read what I wrote, as I do not consider that which is perfect comes as being Jesus second coming, nor do I believe it is the bible that some have stated.
What I believe that which is perfect comes is the final prophecy fulfillment of the New Heaven and the New Earth, as then and only then will all death, sadness, strife, hatred, and all other forms of evil done away with. From this point no more prophecy is to be fulfilled as all things will be fulfilled at this point.

 

[RickyZ]

Interesting take on the "coming of perfection" idea. I'll have to ponder that one for a while.

 

[SpiritofElijah]

Jesus, Lover of my soul,
Jesus, I will never let you go
You’ve taken me from the miry clay
You've set my feet upon the Rock, and now i know

I love you, I need you,
Though my world may fall, I’ll never let you go
My Saviour, my closest friend,
I will worship you until the very end

i just had to post this this is what is amazing too me!

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave,

If one person teaches that the beat of Revelation will come out of Rome and another teaches that he will come out of the middle east, is one or both of them a false teacher?

Who am i to say? Who made me a judge? But here is the Truth, whichever one is teaching something that is CONTRARY to Scriptures is WRONG. Also if both of them are saying "God told me" Then whichever one, or maybe even both, is lying shall suffer a worse fate then an atheist who do not believe in God at all. And whoever is saying they hear from God and it is not from God, also put their family in harms way, because Scriptures (Jeremiah) are quite clear what happens to those who say something is from God and it is not from God, and not only to that person, but that persons family suffers the same consequences. So Anyone that claims they have heard something from God, better be 100% positive it is God, if not, they just signed a death warrant. God does not lie, Anyone who says something is from God and it is not from God, shall die.

^i^ Responding to Post # 251

 

[DiscipleDave]

This is where you show you did not read what I wrote, as I do not consider that which is perfect comes as being Jesus second coming, nor do I believe it is the bible that some have stated.
What I believe that which is perfect comes is the final prophecy fulfillment of the New Heaven and the New Earth, as then and only then will all death, sadness, strife, hatred, and all other forms of evil done away with. From this point no more prophecy is to be fulfilled as all things will be fulfilled at this point.

All things are fulfilled according to you? Not Scriptures.
To create the New Heaven and the New Earth, it will take 7 years of destroying the Earth and the Atmosphere as we know it, please, please, read this article New Heaven and New Earth God will destroy the old Earth, and the old atmosphere, everything will melt. This same 7 year period is the Tribulation Period that the Bible prophesies speak of over and over and over again. ONCE the New Heaven and the New Earth is created, the Earth becomes like a Garden of Eden, the ENTIRE Earth becomes like the Garden of Eden, This is because the Son of God, Jesus Christ is Here on Earth. And the 1,000 year reign of Christ on Earth will begin, reigning over the 144,000 that Angels of God protected through the Tribulation Period. Prophesies AFTER the New Heaven and New Earth are made you can read in Daniel, and even in Revelations.

You say there are no more prophesies AFTER the New Heaven and the New Earth is come, for you said

What I believe that which is perfect comes is the final prophecy fulfillment of the New Heaven and the New Earth, as then and only then will all death, sadness, strife, hatred, and all other forms of evil done away with. From this point no more prophecy is to be fulfilled as all things will be fulfilled at this point.

The first two verses of Revelation Chapter 21 proves that statement to be wrong.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

What does John prophesy about when He see the New Heaven and the New Earth? Does he not speak of the New City Jerusalem coming down? Also if you continue to read the things John talk about AFTER the New Heaven and the New Earth that he just described, there are more prophesies, look at verse nine, The Apostle John say there that he then saw seven angels with seven vials to be poured out. There are many prophesies AFTER the New Heaven and the New Earth, the 1,000 years reign of Christ is AFTER the Earth is destroyed by fire. The prophesies concerning the release of satan is AFTER the New Heaven and the New Earth. So i do not understand where you are basing your belief, that there are no prophesies to be fulfilled after the New Heaven and the New Earth, because there are plenty according to Scriptures. NOW granted, there will be no NEW prophesies after that which is perfect is come, that is True, but until He comes (Rapture) there will be prophesies, hence the reason that God pours out His Spirit on the sons and daughters and they SHALL prophesy.

^i^ Responding to Post # 252

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said :

Yet i have been able to do just that without ever bringing up the Hebrew and Greek? As i said before, 99% of the time i can refute false teaching through Scriptures that God gave us today, without ever going to the Hebrew and Greek to do so. i understand what you are saying, i have studied Hebrew and Greek as well, But the Truth is, even with your above example, i can use Scriptures to reveal exactly what you have learned using the Hebrew and Greek. Scriptures teach what it Truly means to believe in Jesus, one can learn that Truth, without ever going to the Hebrew and Greek. Is my point. i never said that you said that. And yes in everything you do, do in the Spirit. and my point is for the most part that studying the original only causes more confusion, which is not of God. i teach that one is better off to merely study the Word of God in prayer and in the Holy Spirit. i teach that the BEST way to the Truth is through the HOLY Ghost and the Word of God, ONLY. sure there are many outside sources, ie, Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic/Books/Magazines/Pamphlets/Internet/TV/Radio/Sermons/Preachers/Humans. But the BEST way,is through the Word of God with the help of the Holy Ghost. . .. .. . sigh . .. . . . You do error not knowing the Scriptures. Whatever verse you are using that says YOU are interpreting it incorrectly. Please inform me what Scriptures you are referring to. when you say "that which is perfect comes" are you referring to Jesus? if so, you are correct. But where you are wrong in what you believe concerning prophesies END when He comes. There are prophesies that are to be fulfilled AFTER HE gets here. Such as satan being bound for a thousand years is AFTER Christ gets here. There are prophesies of Christ reigning on the Earth, there are prophesies concerning the Earth AFTER Christ gets here. There are prophesies AFTER JESUS is HERE, that talk about satan being released from the abyss, and prophesies concerning the war that comes afterwards. All of these prophesies are to be fulfilled AFTER that which is perfect has came. To say they END when He comes, is in error and is not the Truth. So if i prophesy something about what the Kingdom of Heaven is like, i am wrong because why? Even according to your own thinking, if prophesies are to cease when that which is perfect is come, has Jesus CAME to get His Church yet? So then prophesies are still active, yes? Or are you thinking [please note, i do not know what you think nor am i accusing you of thinking this, that is why i just said what i did] He has already came, when He walked the Earth, and that is when the perfect came and prophesies ceased. One problem with that belief. Christ has came prior to that. Jesus walked in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, that which is perfect came then. Also Melchizedek was Jesus Christ, setting up the priesthood that Jesus Christ would later be born into, a priest that abideth forever. It is witnessed that Melchizedek was a priest of the Most High God, to which Abraham gave a tenth (tithe) to Him. And saying a priest, when there was no temple on Earth at that time, reveals who He actually was. He was a priest of the Most High God in the Temple in Heaven. Anyways off topic. The Bible is filled with prophesies concerning the human race, concerning the battle of Good verses evil, and the outcome of that. There are no prophesies concerning things AFTER the human race has cease to exist, what is Heaven actually like, what we will DO there. making a passing comment about the Saints getting their own planet (a gnat in importance) is AFTER humankind is gone, AFTER the Bible ceases to exist. The Bible was created to, and for the human race, no more human race, no more need of the Bible. And that is True, but let us see how many stones are thrown because i say the Truth. Do you even know what the New Heaven and the New Earth entails according to Scriptures? read the article called New Heaven and New Earth Very scary stuff is about to fall upon the Earth.

This is where you show you did not read what I wrote, as I do not consider that which is perfect comes as being Jesus second coming, nor do I believe it is the bible that some have stated.

Friend, you do error, i have read what you wrote, i know that you did not say that which is perfect is the second coming, that is why i said what i said above, if you care to read what i have highlighted above.

What I believe that which is perfect comes is the final prophecy fulfillment of the New Heaven and the New Earth, as then and only then will all death, sadness, strife, hatred, and all other forms of evil done away with. From this point no more prophecy is to be fulfilled as all things will be fulfilled at this point.

Now it is apparent you did not read what i wrote. i have now given two post which show prophesies that are yet to be fulfilled AFTER the New Heaven and the New Earth. You say AFTER the New Heaven and the New Earth there are no more prophesies to be fulfilled, that is contrary to Scriptures, for Scriptures plainly prophesy things that will happen AFTER New Heaven, New Earth, it even prophesies about things during the New Heaven and the New Earth.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

So clearly this is a prophesy from Isaiah concerning the New Heaven and the New Earth, now read all the PROPHESIES that come AFTER there is a New Heaven and a New Earth.

Isaiah 65: 17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
[SUP]18[/SUP]But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
[SUP]19[/SUP]And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
[SUP]20[/SUP]There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
[SUP]21[/SUP]And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
[SUP]22[/SUP]They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
[SUP]23[/SUP]They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
[SUP]24[/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
[SUP]25[/SUP]The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

These are the 144,000 that will be on the Earth, who we Saints will reign over with Jesus Christ. All these are prophesies AFTER the New Heaven and the New Earth is created (which takes 7 years, and is called the Tribulation Period)
You keep saying there are no more prophesies to be fulfilled AFTER the New Heaven and the New Earth, that is not True nor is it Scriptural, it is a false doctrine. Don't believe me, Don't say that i am right, just agree that the Word of God is right.

^i^ Responding to Post # 252

 

[Kaycie]

Do you believe prophets are still in operation today or Apostle.
No on the prophets because we now have the full word of God Genesis to Revelation, therefore there is no more need for us to get God's word through a prophet. Where there are prophesies they will cease, when completeness (of God's word) comes what was only in part (prophesies) will disappear (no longer be). 1 Corinthians 13:8-10. And no on the apostles because there were only 12, (Acts 1:13) and they died. Now there were two named Judas, one was also called Thaddeus. But when Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus, he was replaced by Paul (not by Matthias). All of the apostles had to be hand-picked by Christ Himself directly. In Acts 12:2 you can read about one of their deaths. If they were still alive they would be over 2,000 years old.

Do signs wonders and miracles that Jesus operated in still exist through the church today through believers?
No, not what I call miraculous miracles. Powerful things do happen through prayer, but no such things as walking on water, controlling the weather, turning water into grape juice, instantly healing the deaf, blind, and lame, or raising the dead. Miraculous miracles (as I like to call them) had a purpose- which was to identify the prophets, the Messiah, and the apostles, which purpose has been fulfilled. 1 Corinthians 13:13 says that faith, hope, and love REMAIN. In order for something to remain, something else has to have been taken away. So what was taken away? Miracles. Because there is no longer need for them now that we have perfection (the complete word of God to us). And when perfection comes the imperfect disappears. (1 Corinthians 13:10).

Does God still operate in dreams, visions, angelic visitations, or any other above natural way?
(Acts 2:17) Dreams? Yes. Visions? Yes. Angelic visitations? Yes, but in secret, not as a glowing beings with wings, again God does not operate in the physical ways He used to, but angels do help those who are heaven-bound (Hebrews 1:14). We no longer have prophets, yet both Christian men and women prophesy when the say to others, "Christ will return." All these happen in spiritual ways. It is no longer a physical battle, but a spiritual one. (Ephesians 6:10-20).

Does God still speak today?
Yes. We speak to God through prayer, and God speaks to us through the bible. (2nd Timothy 3:16) All scripture comes from the very mouth of God. Some feel like God is now silent because He now does things spiritually instead of using the physical signs that He used to, but God is very much alive and active today. But you can't see that unless you know your old testament very well and are able to see the spiritual equivalent in today's world.

 

[presidente]

Who am i to say? Who made me a judge?

You have already stated your judgment and did so in this message.

But here is the Truth, whichever one is teaching something that is CONTRARY to Scriptures is WRONG. Also if both of them are saying "God told me"

The Bible makes a difference between prophets and teachers. Prophets who prophesy falsely in the name of the Lord were to get the death penalty in the Old Testament. But if someone taught the people wrongly, there was only a death penalty for certain things, for example enticing the people to idolatry.

Read the description of a false teacher in II Peter 2. There is more to it than just repeating an error on a matter of doctrine. Some doctrinal matters, for example the resurrection of Christ, are core to the faith.

Then whichever one, or maybe even both, is lying shall suffer a worse fate then an atheist who do not believe in God at all.

Where does the Bible teach that? How is that consistent with the Bible's teaching on salvation by faith? How do you know you are not saying something false there?

Teachers suffer a stricter judgment. It doesn't say they all get a fate worse than an atheist.

If you talked enough to every teacher or prophet, you will probably find some matter of doctrine, even if it is a small one, where you disagree. If that is the case, does that mean no one but you will be saved?

 

[RickyZ]

Do you believe prophets are still in operation today or Apostle.
No on the prophets because we now have the full word of God Genesis to Revelation, therefore there is no more need for us to get God's word through a prophet. Where there are prophesies they will cease, when completeness (of God's word) comes what was only in part (prophesies) will disappear (no longer be). 1 Corinthians 13:8-10. And no on the apostles because there were only 12, (Acts 1:13) and they died. Now there were two named Judas, one was also called Thaddeus. But when Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus, he was replaced by Paul (not by Matthias). All of the apostles had to be hand-picked by Christ Himself directly. In Acts 12:2 you can read about one of their deaths. If they were still alive they would be over 2,000 years old.


God never intended for any of us to get sick. That was brought upon us by satan. Christ was brought to us to restore all that God intended for us. He has won that authority but is yet to return to enforce it. We are charged with enforcing it here and now. We do that thru the gifts and fruit of the Holy Spirit until He returns. In other words, healings will cease when Christ returns and no one is getting sick any more.

Tongues is another example. When man was created and as his numbers grew he had a single spiritual language. That was lost at the tower of Babel. When Christ returns He will restore that single spiritual language. Tongues is our ability to tap into that future restoration here and now. I.e., tongues will cease when the single spiritual language is restored.

The same can be said for prophecy. Prophecy today is not a new revelation of God’s word, it’s a new application of the already existing Word.

The perfection spoken of in 1 Corinthians is not the completion of the Bible. It is the restoration of all that God intended for us but was lost.

Don't let satan (or the naysayers) steal from you any of the gifts - or offices - of the Holy Spirit!


Do signs wonders and miracles that Jesus operated in still exist through the church today through believers?
No, not what I call miraculous miracles. Powerful things do happen through prayer, but no such things as walking on water, controlling the weather, turning water into grape juice, instantly healing the deaf, blind, and lame, or raising the dead. Miraculous miracles (as I like to call them) had a purpose- which was to identify the prophets, the Messiah, and the apostles, which purpose has been fulfilled. 1 Corinthians 13:13 says that faith, hope, and love REMAIN. In order for something to remain, something else has to have been taken away. So what was taken away? Miracles. Because there is no longer need for them now that we have perfection (the complete word of God to us). And when perfection comes the imperfect disappears. (1 Corinthians 13:10).


I would disagree:

http://christianchat.com/blogs/rickyz/4349-beach-incident.html



Does God still operate in dreams, visions, angelic visitations, or any other above natural way?
(Acts 2:17) Dreams? Yes. Visions? Yes. Angelic visitations? Yes, but in secret, not as a glowing beings with wings, again God does not operate in the physical ways He used to, but angels do help those who are heaven-bound (Hebrews 1:14). We no longer have prophets, yet both Christian men and women prophesy when the say to others, "Christ will return." All these happen in spiritual ways. It is no longer a physical battle, but a spiritual one. (Ephesians 6:10-20).


Stating the obvious is not a gift of prophecy. To be prophecy it must be Holy Spirit delivered. Mimicking words from a book doesn't count.


Does God still speak today?
Yes. We speak to God through prayer, and God speaks to us through the bible. (2nd Timothy 3:16) All scripture comes from the very mouth of God. Some feel like God is now silent because He now does things spiritually instead of using the physical signs that He used to, but God is very much alive and active today. But you can't see that unless you know your old testament very well and are able to see the spiritual equivalent in today's world.

To be sure, there is a gift of prophecy, then there is the office of Prophet. Neither one has ceased because the world has not received the fullness of Christ's perfection yet. And God still needs dedicated people to bring His word to those who haven't heard it or need a refresher.