No Longer to Obey Commandments

p_rehbein · Mar 5, 2015

When we look at Mat Chapter 5 and see Jesus' teaching on the ten commandments; we must realize that none of us can claim to perfectly obey any of them!

Ro 8:1-13
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
KJV

As I understand what is being said here:

1) The Law is perfectly righteous and perfect obedience to it will yield righteousness.

2) The Law is incapable of providing righteousness to anyone because our fallen nature is incapable of perfect obedience.

3) Our failure to keep the Law perfectly is not condemned because Jesus obeyed it for us.

4) As a result of accepting what Jesus has done on our behalf, the Holy Spirit takes residence within us.

5) As a result of the Holy Spirit living within us, we are given a new nature, who makes war on our fallen nature; but elects not to destroy it.

6) Our new nature, progressively transforms our character and desires to conform to those of Christ.

Therefore a true believer will not persist in sin; but our old nature will on occasion drag us into sin.

and..........yet.........again........this DOES NOT address the question...........what about the commandments contained in the Epistles of the Apostles? And I did John a disservice by forgetting to include him......

The Apostles Paul, Peter, James and John had specific commandments for the church..............are these to be obeyed or have they been nullified by Grace?

p_rehbein · Mar 5, 2015

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

Don't mind that...........EXCEPT Brother Mark did not answer the question.........so you are giving reputation points FOR NOT answering questions? Odd.

just saying

p_rehbein · Mar 5, 2015

seed_time_harvest said:

Hello John832
I left the house and when I came back there was a lot of new post ,I didn't want you to think I overlooked your statement.

I would say that I would have to agree with what you say except I would have asked the question like this:but if you violate one of the two commandments wouldn't you not be establishing the law? and I would say yes that's true but there is now no more condemnation to those who are in CHRIST JESUS.

The reason I would put the two commandments before the ten is because there was no way to keep the ten commandments because of the weakness of the flesh.The ten commandments were given before JESUS came to earth in the flesh and they had to do them and they couldn't perfect the conscious.After JESUS finished the work perfectly the way GOD would accept.(the inside) before JESUS left earth he graced right standing in GODs sight back to those who believe in the WORD of GOD.

Again, all well and good, but you also ARE NOT answering the question I have asked again and again and again and.........sigh..........

p_rehbein · Mar 5, 2015

seed_time_harvest said:

Well at least you are ACKNOWLEDGING the point of this OP...........and that is respectful of you. Now........"in truth" also covers ALL the commandments in the NT................so that really isn't the same. Just saying

p_rehbein · Mar 5, 2015

Elin said:

Ok, let me change gears here Sister, for you and I are having a different conversation than what I am having with everyone else.........so, give my tired old mind a sec............

What I am saying is............IF there is much/most/little of the Word of God.........the Holy Bible that IS NOT intended for the Church today.............then why doesn't someone make the effort to REVISE the Holy Bible to ONLY include what is relevant for the church today? Seems to me that this is a reasonable question.

While mature, learned believers may be able to sift through Scriptures and come to the understanding of what IS or what IS NOT relevant today...........I do not believe the average new believer would be spiritually mature enough to do that. So, by keeping the Holy Bible as is, are we not placing an unnecessary stumbling block in the middle of these young believers newly chosen path?

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Mar 5, 2015

p_rehbein said:

No peanuts at the store?.......sigh.......forgive me if liking a brothers post enough to Rep it finds offense with you.

dcontroversal · Mar 5, 2015

A couple points to ponder here.....

1. First and foremost.....the inspired words of PAUL are EQUALLY the word of GOD and FROM JESUS...to say one overides the other is plain ignorant and to be quite frank stupid.....From Genesis 1:1 to the last verse in Revelation is inspired and GIVEN by GOD...

2. No matter how you slice and dice the word, JESUS said that ALL of the LAW and Prophets HINGE and HANG on LOVING GOD and LOVING your NEIGHBOR

3. The WORD of GOD also breaks it down even further and states that the LAW hangs on LOVING your NEIGHBOR...

A better question is....WHY do some REJECT the above to continually cram the LAW down a believers throat?

If you LOVE GOD and YOU love your NEIGHBOR you will DO RIGHT BY THEM!

p_rehbein · Mar 5, 2015

Nowhere does Paul or anyone else come close to saying anything like: "Listen, we're gonna talk about clean and unclean meats from the Law. Now you've heard that you can't eat unclean meats. But I'm telling you they're wrong -- you can eat whatever you like! So bring home that pork roast from the market, gather Jew and Gentile around, and feast until your heart's content!"

FYI.......better read Acts, Chapter 15 again

just saying............AND I NEVER SUGGESTED that any of the Apostles said anything about these anyway................Sister Eline offered these, not me.

I am SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSING the commandments the Apostles Paul, Peter, James and John gave to the church in their Epistles............folks are running around trying to cloud up the waters and hide the truth of what I am asking.......or, at least, this is how I am beginning to see it. And I wish you all would not do that.

If you don't know the answer, just say you don't know. I'm fine with that!

p_rehbein · Mar 5, 2015

The_highwayman said:

Nowhere have I said anything of the sort. AGAIN, a distorted statement of my OP.

THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE APOSTLES IN THE EPISTLES WRITTEN BY THE APOSTLES IS WHAT THIS OP IS ADDRESSING.

Why in the world are people so completely unable to grasp what I am asking?

p_rehbein · Mar 5, 2015

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

Wasn't offended at all Brother............

But can you not see how I am struggling to have people address the OP and not their predetermined view of what they THINK I am saying?

This OP has NOTHING to do with Mosaic Law..............NOTHING! Just saying.........

If you want, I'll rep him for you, just say the word

p_rehbein · Mar 5, 2015

EVERYONE. Please stay ON TOPIC.........if you can not do that, then please start your own thread. At least have that much respect for the question(s) I am asking............if for no other reason, then this is how one should treat a fellow believer.

Thanks

Elin · Mar 5, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Do we have any NT teaching that the new covenant commands spoken by the Son
in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers are abrogated by an abrogated
new covenant, as we have of the abrogation of the Mosaic regulations by the abrogated old
covenant (Heb 8:13) at the inauguration of the new covenant (Lk 22:20; 2Co 3:6; Heb 8:6, 9:15)?

p_rehbein · Mar 5, 2015

If that was in English Sister...........it wasn't Suthern English...........

So, are you saying that whatever commandments the Apostles gave in their Epistles are STILL to be obeyed by the Church today? See, that really, really IS a yes or no question...........or, at least, it should be.

Elin · Mar 5, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Ok, let me change gears here Sister, for you and I are having a different conversation than what I am having with everyone else.........so, give my tired old mind a sec............

What I am saying is............IF there is much/most/little of the Word of God.........the Holy Bible that IS NOT intended for the Church today.............then why doesn't someone make the effort to REVISE the Holy Bible to ONLY include what is relevant for the church today? Seems to me that this is a reasonable question.

While mature, learned believers may be able to sift through Scriptures and come to the understanding of what IS or what IS NOT relevant today...........I do not believe the average new believer would be spiritually mature enough to do that. So,
by keeping the Holy Bible as is, are we not placing an unnecessary stumbling block in the middle of these young believers newly chosen path?

Bubba, are you meddlin' in God's business?

VioletReigns · Mar 5, 2015

Jim M., a brother in Christ posted this some years back regarding this scripture:
But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'" Matthew 4:4

It is a common misperception based upon a mind of legal expectations that misreads what Jesus actually said. For it is not upon every word that PROCEEDED or CAME out of God's mouth ... but every word that PROCEEDS or COMES from God's mouth. A big, a huge, a colossal difference! (Present tense, as opposed to past tense)

Now, as the son of man, Jesus lived according to what he quoted. He could do nothing other. However, it was not the words of God that had been written on stone that Jesus lived by, for the dead letter did nothing for him. In fact, the Pharisees were often offended by his flagrant disregard of what they had considered "Every word that CAME out of the mouth of God".

Jesus himself saw his father's doings and did what he did; he heard his voice and spoke his words. He lived by every word that was coming out of the mouth of his father.

Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment. "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. John 5:19-30

Notice how totally contrary this description stands against that legal definition of "the will of God". Jesus lived because of the father, he did according to the father's doing, He heard his father's voice and lived according to it, though to the legalist’s mind it is a religious perception of living by words that have been recorded.

We do not live by grace passages or by any particular verses of the Bible, whether in the old or in the new testament writings. We live by him who has made us alive together in Christ. Those who desire to use the NT writings, even those "good" ones, as the Lord's "to do" list can knock themselves out in the process. Perhaps then it will become obvious.

Elin · Mar 5, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Until the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers abrogates them.

Elin · Mar 5, 2015

VioletReigns said:

Jim M., a brother in Christ posted this some years back regarding this scripture:
But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'" Matthew 4:4

It is a common misperception based upon a mind of legal expectations that misreads what Jesus actually said. For it is not upon every word that PROCEEDED or CAME out of God's mouth ... but every word that PROCEEDS or COMES from God's mouth. A big, a huge, a colossal difference! (Present tense, as opposed to past tense)

Now, as the son of man, Jesus lived according to what he quoted. He could do nothing other. However, it was not the words of God that had been written on stone that Jesus lived by, for the dead letter did nothing for him. In fact, the Pharisees were often offended by his flagrant disregard of what they had considered "Every word that CAME out of the mouth of God".

Jesus himself saw his father's doings and did what he did; he heard his voice and spoke his words. He lived by every word that was coming out of the mouth of his father.

Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment. "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. John 5:19-30

Notice how totally contrary this description stands against that legal definition of "the will of God". Jesus lived because of the father, he did according to the father's doing, He heard his father's voice and lived according to it, though to the legalist’s mind it is a religious perception of living by words that have been recorded.

We do not live by grace passages or by any particular verses of the Bible, whether in the old or in the new testament writings. We live by him who has made us alive together in Christ. Those who desire to use the NT writings, even those "good" ones, as the Lord's "to do" list can knock themselves out in the process. Perhaps then it will become obvious.

Could you tell me what his point is?

p_rehbein · Mar 5, 2015

Elin said:

No, but I am pointing out that some here are...........just wondering if they are going to make null and void parts of the Holy Bible........they better give it some serious thought..............

We have folks here who adhere to the Two Gospel ideology, some here who claim there is NO One Church, some who make other claims against the Holy Bible, and some who claim that each Epistle was written specifically for ONLY those it was addressed to. Now, that idea leads to what? A seven or eight Gospel theory?

Lotta folks here rewriting the Holy Bible............they just go about it in a way that is not easily recognized by most.

MarcR · Mar 5, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Belief in the inspiration of scripture puts all commands in Scripture on a basis of equal authority.

I, and I believe most of us opposing your position, agree that true Salvation causes habitual obedience; but not perfect obedience yet. The point of disagreement is whether works have a role in Salvation or whether perfect obedience is possible before the rapture.

VioletReigns · Mar 5, 2015

Simply put, Jesus is the Law. If we are alive in Him, if His Holy Spirit is in us, we are following Him and obeying Him.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” John 14:6

Is Jesus’ statement true because he said it was true or is it true in and of itself, even before he said it? If we did not have a recording of the events that took place with the disciples, would he still be the truth? Would I be wrong in claiming that he was the truth if I hadn’t read these words?

If we find ourselves standing upon particular statements of truth, rather than upon the One who is being testified to by the Biblical record, we might want to reevaluate our approach to the Bible.

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