Do people actually speak in Tongues (for real) anymore?

[dcontroversal]

Most that hold fast to cessation doctrine claim the perfect is not Jesus Christ, but the Bible.

perfect-->teleios-->complete in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, completeness of full age, a MAN

When I was a child I spake as a child....When I became a man I put away CHILDISH THINGS.....NOW apply that to the gifts and Paul's inspired view of the gifts as applied unto the spiritually immature Corinthian Church.........!

 

[phil112]

perfect-->teleios-->complete in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, completeness of full age, a MAN

When I was a child I spake as a child....When I became a man I put away CHILDISH THINGS.....NOW apply that to the gifts and Paul's inspired view of the gifts as applied unto the spiritually immature Corinthian Church.........!

Sadly Dcon, children are still around. And they still try to run things.
We're in deep doodoo.

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

 

[Fenner]

I can relate an actual experience I had; and you can decide for yourself whether it was Biblical tongues.


First some background:

Shortly after I graduated High School, some Haitians moved into my neighborhood; and in the course of helping them with their English, I learned rudimentary French.

My wife has a severe hearing loss; and while I was courting her I learned rudimentary ASL



One evening, while I was still courting my wife, we went to a restaurant with a couple of friends. As we were leaving the restaurant, we met a group of 6 deaf people 2 of whom were visiting from France. My wife and I got into a conversation with them and opportunity arose to begin witnessing to them. I found myself fluently signing ASL and French and interpreting back to English at conversational speed far beyond my natural ability; and led 2 of them to Christ.

I have always thought of this as Biblical tongues.

That Sir is exactly what speaking in tounges is! That's awesome, I'm so happy other's understand the babbling non sense isn't speaking in tounges. God Bless.

 

[PeterJens]

What is sad brothers and sisters is tongues is the least of all gifts.
It is the attitude of the heart and the desire to share and serve the Lord that matter. Human beings love perfection, putting things in boxes, but God sees all the lies, deception, lostness, pain, sadness, loneliness and just wants to pour out reassurance and encouragement to His people. So rejoice when people rejoice in his gifts and do not fear them.

We need more real people showing real love and care to one another not less.....

 

[phil112]

What is sad brothers and sisters is tongues is the least of all gifts.
It is the attitude of the heart and the desire to share and serve the Lord that matter. Human beings love perfection, putting things in boxes, but God sees all the lies, deception, lostness, pain, sadness, loneliness and just wants to pour out reassurance and encouragement to His people. So rejoice when people rejoice in his gifts and do not fear them.

We need more real people showing real love and care to one another not less.....

If you had read the thread, you would have realized this has been said. True we need more love, but more than that we need more people standing for Christ, being His ambassador, than putting up with lies and false doctrine.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

perfect-->teleios-->complete in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, completeness of full age, a MAN

When I was a child I spake as a child....When I became a man I put away CHILDISH THINGS.....NOW apply that to the gifts and Paul's inspired view of the gifts as applied unto the spiritually immature Corinthian Church.........!

teleios - [from telos meaning 1) end A. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time. B. the end 1) the last in any succession or series 2) eternal C. that by which a thing is finished, its, close, issue D. the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose] brought to its end, finished; wanting nothing necessary to completeness; perfect; that which is perfect; consummate human integrity and virtue; of men, full grown, adult, of full age, mature

So teleios has to do with something reaching it's end, something being finished, needing nothing else for completeness, that which is perfect. We have no problem knowing that a person's sanctification last a lifetime until it is complete. We have no problem knowing that until Christ's return, we will not be perfected (completely mature). But when it comes to these manifestations of the gift of holy spirit being used - we are all of a sudden grown men who should put away childish things. Until we become "perfect", completely mature we see through a glass darkly but when Christ returns we will be fully mature - we will no longer know only in part - we will put away childish things for we will have no need for them . . .

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Sadly Dcon, children are still around. And they still try to run things.
We're in deep doodoo.

Yes, children are still around and scripture addresses believers in that way:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you . . .
1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
1 John 2:13 . . . .I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: . . . .
1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him: that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness . . . . .
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen

 

[phil112]

Yes, children are still around ...........

I really like you, aside from loving you, but you need to understand and acknowledge that what I have said about tongues, how I have seen it practiced, and how it is done in every church I have been in or seen, does it outside of bible. You have to understand and condemn perversion of scripture. Are you a legit tongues speaker? Don't know because I haven't seen or heard you.

Ask yourself these two questions, and thusly live your life: Is there a need for it, and secondly, is it edifying?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I really like you, aside from loving you, but you need to understand and acknowledge that what I have said about tongues, how I have seen it practiced, and how it is done in every church I have been in or seen, does it outside of bible. You have to understand and condemn perversion of scripture. Are you a legit tongues speaker? Don't know because I haven't seen or heard you.

Ask yourself these two questions, and thusly live your life: Is there a need for it, and secondly, is it edifying?

Ditto!

I understand where you are coming from if you have only seen the abuse of the manifestation of tongues and interpretation but that doesn't deny that scripture stands regardless of how man takes things of the spirit and misuses them or misunderstands them.

Yes, I speak in tongues and speak in tongues daily for I need edifying and I need building up spiritually so that I can better live my life for Christ and manifest the fruit of the spirit in my life.

 

[Jackson123]

Exactly. Is this world perfected? I don't think even the biggest gifts deniers will say that. When will perfection come? When Christ returns to rule over this world. Again, God never intended us to be sick. We will however continue to be sick until Christ comes and brings perfection to this world. In the meantime, we have the gift of healing to get us thru. And it is the same with all the gifts. Tongues is the Godly perfected singular spiritual language to come when Christ returns, made available to us today thru the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you brother.

Let say perfect in this context mean bible/the word of God.

When Jesus on earth, He speak, and teach, his teaching is perfect, yet he still doing gift of miracle,

And when Jesus ascended to heaven the apostle has tough perfect lesson from Jesus Himself. Yet they still need a gift of tongue.

For the apostle what is the different between written bible in the form of book with written bible in they heart by Holy spirit.

I believe the word was written in every apostle heart, and they still have the gift of the Holy spirit.

speak in tongue strengthened you. that is the bible said. And we need to be strong in this danger world.

 

[Jackson123]

Sadly Dcon, children are still around. And they still try to run things.
We're in deep doodoo.

Yes brother, children are always around till the end of the day.

New Christian are always coming and they are children and not mature in they faith.

 

[MarcR]

Is it really necessary for the verbal slaps of sarcasm and condemnation?

I do not see any problem with agreeing to disagree in the spirit of humility.

You are totally right. Doctrinal error should be corrected to keep the Spiritually immature from stumbling into it; but it should, as much as possible be done gently and peaceably.

I suppose I'm as guilty as anyone with my word plays and barbed humor; but when someone is hard of listening, how does one get their attention?

 

[RickyZ]

You're incredible. If I wasn't interested in heaven I'd say more. God's word has come. When the printing press was invented, the word spread like wildfire. Tongues are no longer needed. Tongues were for two reasons - one a show of God's power, and the other, a spread of the gospel. God's power is not in dispute, nor is his gospel. You, sir, need to change where you are and how you got there.

You don't show the love of Jesus in your attempt to bring correction... I gotta pray for you dude, there's a lot of unholy anger clouding your judgment. Ephphatha! May your temper be quelled and your eyes opened.

I can relate an actual experience I had; and you can decide for yourself whether it was Biblical tongues.


First some background:

Shortly after I graduated High School, some Haitians moved into my neighborhood; and in the course of helping them with their English, I learned rudimentary French.

My wife has a severe hearing loss; and while I was courting her I learned rudimentary ASL



One evening, while I was still courting my wife, we went to a restaurant with a couple of friends. As we were leaving the restaurant, we met a group of 6 deaf people 2 of whom were visiting from France. My wife and I got into a conversation with them and opportunity arose to begin witnessing to them. I found myself fluently signing ASL and French and interpreting back to English at conversational speed far beyond my natural ability; and led 2 of them to Christ.

I have always thought of this as Biblical tongues.

That is an awesome example of tongues. It's not the gibberish in the church, it's the hand on the shoulder of someone who's sick in a private setting. It's in a word of comfort to someone on the street. It's in prayer bringing things you don't know about before God and to others. Tongues in church is supposed to be orderly and in the form of prophecy, with a speaker and interpretation. Tongues in your personal life are for the edification of yourself and others. Privately and without all the hoopla.

We get a new single spiritual language when Christ returns and brings His perfection to this world. Tongues is just tapping into that resource now thru the Holy Spirit to bring God's voice into the situation.

Are the tongues spoken of in the mouth of the speaker or in the ears of the hearers like at Pentecost?

They are both, Roger. One must speak and one must hear.

So much confusion and yet God is not the author of confusion.

No, satan is that author. Would satan have reason to throw the issue into confusion?

here is a great lack of discipleship in the church

Uhm... the disciples spoke in tongues. Could that lack of discipleship you mention be because the gifts have been stifled?

The vagabond Jews of Acts 19:13-19 cast out demons by what power? It was not the authority of Christ.

Yeah and what happened to those Jews? And weren't they trying to imitate a real thing? There were fakes then, but the real thing existed. There are fakes now, but the real thing exists.

Who benefits from all this confusion? That is the Questions to ponder and answers to be sought.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Joshua_Generation]

perfect-->teleios-->complete in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, completeness of full age, a MAN

When I was a child I spake as a child....When I became a man I put away CHILDISH THINGS.....NOW apply that to the gifts and Paul's inspired view of the gifts as applied unto the spiritually immature Corinthian Church.........!

If what you state is true and 1 Cor 13 is about the cessation of all gifts, why does Paul continue to bring them up in 1 Cor 14? And why Does Peter talk about gifts? Why Does James state all gifts come from the Father above? Why Does the author of Hebrews confirm the gifts continued?

 

[Joshua_Generation]

The reason 1 Cor 13 was placed between 12 and 14 is simple. Paul is telling us in 1 Cor 13, that you cannot operate in the things of 1 Cor 12 and 1 Cor 14 without love.

He is stating that you can operate in all 9 Gifts found in 1 Cor 12, BUT if you do not have love and operate in those gifts in love then it is not of the Spirit. What is the first Fruit of the Spirit? that would be love.

The treatise that many state 1 COr 13 is about cessation of doctrine miss something very important. 1 Cor 13 is about love and spiritual maturity and has zero to do with the gifts ceasing. Otherwise he would not have continued speaking about them in 1 Cor 14 and Peter, James and the author of Hebrews would have never mentioned them either.

To those that state why the gifts are not mentioned in his other Epistles? It is implied that the other churches were more spiritually mature than Corinth.

SO I will ask all those that state tongues have ceased. DO you believe also that miracles have ceased, do you believe that healing has ceased?

If you state yes, then you do not believe at all in Jesus. The word says Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. Jesus imparted power and authority on 82 people and they came back at the works they had done. God always works through people and he does so today.

So many get so worked up about tongues but forget the other gifts.

New flash peeps, Jesus did not do what he did on earth, because he was the SON of God. He laid down his privileges of God, because had he came as a man and used his powers as God, it would have violated him being a just God. Let that burn into your spirit and go research it before mouthy comments are made. Jesus operated in most of the 9 Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Go study that out before mouthy comments are made as well.

The greatest lie the church is under today is the man assumed tradition that teaches Jesus did what he did because of his God powers.

Many of you blather on about how much you believe in Jesus. If you believe the lie that Jesus did what he did on earth because he used his divine God powers, then you are lost and have zero understanding of how the son of man operated on earth and what he was showing us to do for today.

All the while the enemy is smiling and laughing and taking some of you all down the drain.

 

[dcontroversal]

teleios - [from telos meaning 1) end A. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time. B. the end 1) the last in any succession or series 2) eternal C. that by which a thing is finished, its, close, issue D. the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose] brought to its end, finished; wanting nothing necessary to completeness; perfect; that which is perfect; consummate human integrity and virtue; of men, full grown, adult, of full age, mature

So teleios has to do with something reaching it's end, something being finished, needing nothing else for completeness, that which is perfect. We have no problem knowing that a person's sanctification last a lifetime until it is complete. We have no problem knowing that until Christ's return, we will not be perfected (completely mature). But when it comes to these manifestations of the gift of holy spirit being used - we are all of a sudden grown men who should put away childish things. Until we become "perfect", completely mature we see through a glass darkly but when Christ returns we will be fully mature - we will no longer know only in part - we will put away childish things for we will have no need for them . . .

PAUL was clear and the words he uses are pointed at and applicable unto the gifts......

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

perfect-->teleios-->complete in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, completeness of full age, a MAN

When I was a child I spake as a child....When I became a man I put away CHILDISH THINGS.....NOW apply that to the gifts and Paul's inspired view of the gifts as applied unto the spiritually immature Corinthian Church.........!

 

[passing_through]

Then how do you go to heaven? How do you tell the difference between good and bad? We are told, "try the spirits". If you can't/won't/don't want to, discern the difference between good and evil you're on the wrong side.

Don't understand the question, what does Salvation have to do with this in particular. If a person act in a way that is outside the accepted norm in your circle does that mean that they are not saved?

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Yes, children are still around and scripture addresses believers in that way:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you . . .
1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
1 John 2:13 . . . .I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: . . . .
1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him: that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness . . . . .
1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen

Hey PB,
Defend the faith sis!
Just a little insight into the terms here.

John uses the term little children as well as Fathers and Young men in 1 John 2, to separate spiritual maturity.

If you read through 1 John 2 you will see it and see how his admonitions also go with spiritual maturity. He tells the little children basic things, the fathers should know these things and the young men are strong, because of these things.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Then how do you go to heaven? How do you tell the difference between good and bad? We are told, "try the spirits". If you can't/won't/don't want to, discern the difference between good and evil you're on the wrong side.

Chapter and verse please?

I did not know we were saved by discerning good and evil. I thought we are saved by confessing the Lord Jesus and believing in our hearts God raised him from the dead?

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Then how do you go to heaven? How do you tell the difference between good and bad? We are told, "try the spirits". If you can't/won't/don't want to, discern the difference between good and evil you're on the wrong side.

Trying the spirits have zero to do with obtaining salvation.