Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease

[Jason0047]

Circumcision of the heart is first mentioned in Deuteronomy. This spiritual concept of the law during Moses' day is substantiated in the New Testament scriptures.

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:29

"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." Deuteronomy 10:16

You are not telling me anything new, my friend. I have already written on this topic a long, long time ago. Here is what I had posted before (many times).

Quick Review:
Circumcision of the Heart in the Old Testament.
(Which is obviously a spiritual renewal of one's heart):

Deuteronomy 10:16

"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked."​

Deuteronomy 30:6

"And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."​

Jeremiah 4:4

"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings."​

Ezekiel 44:9

"Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel."​

Leviticus 26:41

"And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:."​

Jeremiah 9:26

"Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart."​

Having A New Heart in the Old Testament:

Ezekiel 11:19

"And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh"​

Ezekiel 18:31

"Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"​

Ezekiel 36:26

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."​

Circumcision of the Heart in the New Testament:

Acts 7:51

"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."​

Spiritual Circumcision in the New Testament:

Philippians 3:3

"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh."​

Romans 2:28-29

28 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."​

Colossians 2:11

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ"​

 

[Jason0047]

I still do not see how this proves that the Law of Moses is still in effect, though. I just do not get that from reading those verses above.

 

[Jason0047]

JUst as long as they have been reborn then every one that has this hope purifies themselves.

Yes, if they are not born again and they are not seeking to purify themselves (i.e. they confess their sin and strive to forsake it), then they have the blessed hope. If they think they can sin and still be saved, then they are in for a rude awakening.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, if they are not born again and they are not seeking to purify themselves (i.e. they confess their sin and strive to forsake it), then they have the blessed hope. If they think they can sin and still be saved, then they are in for a rude awakening.

see, Jason here must be sinless.. Otherwise, he is not doing what he demands, and think he can still sin.

he also does not realize, that baptism of the HS is what purifies us (washes us and makes us as white as snow) we can not purify ourselves. thus he makes the work of Christ on the cross, and his blood, which cleanses us from all sin, null and void. and of no effect.

 

[Blain]

see, Jason here must be sinless.. Otherwise, he is not doing what he demands, and think he can still sin.

he also does not realize, that baptism of the HS is what purifies us (washes us and makes us as white as snow) we can not purify ourselves. thus he makes the work of Christ on the cross, and his blood, which cleanses us from all sin, null and void. and of no effect.

I wouldn't bother buddy, I have tried to talk to him and others who believe this but ppl are stubborn

 

[Jason0047]

yea, he basically said on another thread that anyone who disagrees with him is wrong and he ignores them.

Ecclesiastes 7:21
"Also take no heed unto all words that are spoken; lest thou hear thy servant curse thee"

 

[psychomom]

So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. Deuteronomy 13:5 Deuteronomy 17:7 Deuteronomy 19:19 Deuteronomy 22:21-24 Deuteronomy 24:7
so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. Deuteronomy 21:21

There are more instructions that do not refute the New Testament. Bad things happen to bad people, and good things happen to the innocent.

2 Cor 1 and 4? (just off the top of my head.....)
man, them apostles musta been bad people.

God Word comes to us in (basically) two forms.
God's Law (the Word of demand) and
God's Gospel (the Word of deliverance).

the Law is not some helpful suggestions for practical living.
it's instruction in how to be perfect.
it is relentless in its pursuit of sinners....all of us.
there is no mercy or grace in it...it is God's demand for absolute, unmitigated perfection.

oh, you will see mercy and grace in there, because God's Gospel is Eternal. (Rev 14:6)

for those who believe they 'keep Torah'.... you don't.

and i think there's still confusion among us as to the meaning of Rom 3:31.

 

[Jason0047]

see, Jason here must be sinless.. Otherwise, he is not doing what he demands, and think he can still sin.

he also does not realize, that baptism of the HS is what purifies us (washes us and makes us as white as snow) we can not purify ourselves. thus he makes the work of Christ on the cross, and his blood, which cleanses us from all sin, null and void. and of no effect.

One, baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (i.e. sin). See 1 Peter 3. Oh, and yes. I have been baptized (Just in case you are wondering).

Two, the topic we are discussing is not about "me." We are discussing the Bible here. If you would like to discuss the Bible, then you are more than welcome to post Scripture and we can talk back and forth in a kind and loving way.

Three, are you unaware of the verses that talk about how we are to be "perfect" and or how we can cease from sin? Just do a Blue Letter Bible search on these keywords and you will discover the verses for yourself.

 

[fredjames]

I appreciate your help. Thank you. The OP was facetious in that these comments of distortion are the doctrine of many professing Christians these days. I think it is false doctrine, and I flunked this doctrinal school of thought for it makes no sense to me.

Thank you and i appreciate your 'wise', in 'humble' and 'humility' encouragement, that you 'acknowledge' towards the LORD's words in 'appreciation', who loves you and want to 'build you up' and others in 'witnessing' sound doctrine Heavenly knowledge to HIS lambs and sheep and the lost.

i am not against anyone but for everyone who are saved, who say they are in CHRIST, who are testifying and 'living' for GOD, according the New Covenant HE made with the 'first' Christians, and in 'remembrance' to the rest who follow and also in 'equal excellence reference' the Old as well.

GOD bless you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Jason0047]

I wouldn't bother buddy, I have tried to talk to him and others who believe this but ppl are stubborn

And you are not as equally stubborn in what you believe? See, the difference between us is that I post Scripture and desire to talk about Scripture versus say attacking my character or making the thread about "me." But the children of the bondwoman have always persecuted the child who is free. It is what is written.

 

[Blain]

And you are not as equally stubborn in what you believe? See, the difference between us is that I post Scripture and desire to talk about Scripture versus say attacking my character or making the thread about "me." But the children of the bondwoman have always persecuted the child who is free. It is what is written.

I wouldn't say i'm stubborn I am more than willing to learn and admit i am wrong but unless I am proven wrong i cannot simply believe whatever someone else tells me. You say we can be perfect and sinless you say scripture even says that, but the scriptures don't always say what we think they say. a lot of times it's our interpretations that make it say that. True I don't use a lot of scripture in my posts for a couple of reasons 1 I never feel lead to 2 I would rather not hardly use it than to use it out of context or use it as a weapon against others. Scripture is very holy and sacred so if i am disliked because i don't use it like a lot of ppl so be it but i will not use something so treasured so holy and so sacred like that.

 

[Jason0047]

But the children of the bondwoman have always persecuted the child who is free. It is what is written.

But Sarah saw Ishmael--the son of Abraham and her Egyptian servant Hagar--making fun of her son, Isaac. (Genesis 21:9 NLT).

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. (Galatians 4:28-29).

 

[Jason0047]

I wouldn't say i'm stubborn I am more than willing to learn and admit i am wrong but unless I am proven wrong i cannot simply believe whatever someone else tells me. You say we can be perfect and sinless you say scripture even says that, but the scriptures don't always say what we think they say. a lot of times it's our interpretations that make it say that. True I don't use a lot of scripture in my posts for a couple of reasons 1 I never feel lead to 2 I would rather not hardly use it than to use it out of context or use it as a weapon against others. Scripture is very holy and sacred so if i am disliked because i don't use it like a lot of ppl so be it but i will not use something so treasured so holy and so sacred like that.

One, Jesus said, man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of God.

Two, as being sinless or perfect, check out this video here (that includes many verses on the subject),

[VIDEO=youtube;-AQtoN_HdIo]https://youtu.be/-AQtoN_HdIo[/VIDEO]

 

[Blain]

One, Jesus said, man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of God.

Two, as being sinless or perfect, check out this video here (that includes many verses on the subject),

[VIDEO=youtube;-AQtoN_HdIo]https://youtu.be/-AQtoN_HdIo[/VIDEO]

yes this is true he said that and I meditate on his word everyday but i will not use it simply to prove a point. You may use scripture to debate but i prefer to use it to uplift strengthen and encourage others. I am very careful as to how i use the word of God because i have been in these forums a long time and have seen the word misused mistreated twisted and used as weapons against fellow believers. I could honestly care less about debates, i go in them but I know when to shake the dust off my feet and walk away. I am not here to debate I am here to help others to show the love of God and grow closer and stronger in him and help others do so as well.

ever notice how many more enemies are made in these debates than friends?

 

[Jason0047]

Yes, if they are not born again and they are not seeking to purify themselves (i.e. they confess their sin and strive to forsake it), then they have the blessed hope. If they think they can sin and still be saved, then they are in for a rude awakening.

Meant to say ..... they have NO blessed hope.

 

[Jason0047]

yes this is true he said that and I meditate on his word everyday but i will not use it simply to prove a point. You may use scripture to debate but i prefer to use it to uplift strengthen and encourage others. I am very careful as to how i use the word of God because i have been in these forums a long time and have seen the word misused mistreated twisted and used as weapons against fellow believers. I could honestly care less about debates, i go in them but I know when to shake the dust off my feet and walk away. I am not here to debate I am here to help others to show the love of God and grow closer and stronger in him and help others do so as well.

ever notice how many more enemies are made in these debates than friends?

The Word of God is called a two edged sword for a reason. It is not a fluffy kitten. It pierces the heart and makes people feel uncomfortable about their sin and the way they live their lives. However, God's grace is there for those who want to honestly serve God in His good ways rather than making excuses for them in wanting to keep sin within their life. Those who say they cannot ever stop from sinning are going against what the Bible actually teaches. Even if you were to think about it logically; Why would God want you to think you could not stop sinning? Why would he do that to a person? Is God not holy and righteous? Does God not want the best for His people? When I debate or discuss the Scriptures with others it is always done with love and respect. I do not seek to attack others. Yes, I have judged others. But I only judge if I have been judged. And even then I pray for them and seek to love them. For in my walk with God, I believe the Spirit has shown me more thru discussing and debating the Scriptures then just reading it on my own because others challenge what I believe (Whereby I have to research whether those things be so or not according to God's Word).

As for enemies: Jesus said, come not think that I come to send peace but a sword. For your enemies will be those of your own household, etc.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

No. Sin has always been separation from God. That has never changed.

Sin is separation from God:

Isaiah 59:2

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.​

Micah 3:4

Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves in an evil way in their deeds.​

Ezekiel 39:23-24

And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them​

Isaiah 1:15

And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.​

Deuteronomy 31:17-18

Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.​

Proverbs 1:28 CJB and Proverbs 1:29

Then they will call me, but I won’t answer; they will seek me earnestly, but they won’t find me. For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord​

Isaiah 57:17 ESV

Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry, I struck him; I hid my face and was angry, but he went on backsliding in the way of his own heart.​

Proverbs 15:29

The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.​

Deuteronomy 32:19-20 KJ2

And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very perverse generation, children in whom is no faith.​

John 9:31 ESV

We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.​

Proverbs 28:9

He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.​

Job 27:8-9 GNV

For what hope hath the hypocrite when he hath heaped up riches, if God take away his soul? Will God hear his cry, when trouble cometh upon him?​

Zechariah 7:13 KJ2

Therefore it has come to pass that as He cried and they would not hear, so they cried and I would not hear,” saith the Lord of hosts.​

Ezekiel 8:17-18 NLT

Have you seen this, son of man?” he asked. “Is it nothing to the people of Judah that they commit these detestable sins, leading the whole nation into violence, thumbing their noses at me, and provoking my anger? Therefore, I will respond in fury. I will neither pity nor spare them. And though they cry for mercy, I will not listen.​

Jeremiah 14:10-12

Thus saith the Lord unto this people, Thus have they loved to wander, they have not refrained their feet, therefore the Lord doth not accept them; he will now remember their iniquity, and visit their sins. Then said the Lord unto me, Pray not for this people for their good. When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.​

Isaiah 58:9 HCSB

At that time, when you call, the Lord will answer; when you cry out, He will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you get rid of the yoke among you, the finger-pointing and malicious speaking,​

Proverbs 21:13

Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.​

Psalm 66:18

If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me​

Psalm 34:15-16

The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry. The face of the Lord is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.​

Remember GOD is a SPIRIT and must be worshipped in spirit and truth.

The change took place in our spirit but while we are alive here on earth our body has not been glorified so we need to do what Paul said and renew our mind to the WORD of GOD.

GOD deals with us SPIRIT to spirit and not SPIRIT to flesh.
That's why we should renew our minds.

sidenote.....I put the word spirit in caps to indicate GOD.

 

[Blain]

The Word of God is called a two edged sword for a reason. It is not a fluffy kitten. It pierces the heart and makes people feel uncomfortable about their sin and the way they live their lives. However, God's grace is there for those who want to honestly serve God in His good ways rather than making excuses for them in wanting to keep sin within their life. Those who say they cannot ever stop from sinning are going against what the Bible actually teaches. Even if you were to think about it logically; Why would God want you to think you could not stop sinning? Why would he do that to a person? Is God not holy and righteous? Does God not want the best for His people? When I debate or discuss the Scriptures with others it is always done with love and respect. I do not seek to attack others. Yes, I have judged others. But I only judge if I have been judged. And even then I pray for them and seek to love them. For in my walk with God, I believe the Spirit has shown me more thru discussing and debating the Scriptures then just reading it on my own because others challenge what I believe (Whereby I have to research whether those things be so or not according to God's Word).

As for enemies: Jesus said, come not think that I come to send peace but a sword. For your enemies will be those of your own household, etc.

I have no issue with God's word convicting us what I have a problem with is how ppl misuse and treat his word. But you ask why would god do that to a person. Well you are asking a question that has been asked since the beginning of time. we don't know why God allows certain things or why he does the things he does but his thoughts are not our thoughts and his ways are not our ways. Just because God allows something we don't like or agree with doesn't mean he is wrong. Believe me I want nothing more than to be out of this flesh no longer held down by my human sinful nature no longer seeing through the fleshly eyes and loving with the fleshly heart but I know and understand that this is how things are and not because of God but because of us.

We are the ones who chose to eat the fruit we are the ones who screwed up not him.

 

[Jason0047]

Remember GOD is a SPIRIT and must be worshipped in spirit and truth.

The change took place in our spirit but while we are alive here on earth our body has not been glorified so we need to do what Paul said and renew our mind to the WORD of GOD.

GOD deals with us SPIRIT to spirit and not SPIRIT to flesh.
That's why we should renew our minds.

sidenote.....I put the word spirit in caps to indicate GOD.

So are you for or against the verses I posted here? Not sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying that when you sin, you only sin in the body and you don't sin in the spirit? Are you saying your future sin is wiped out because of Jesus?

If so, this will lead a person to think they have a license to sin or to treat sin as if it was a fluffy kitten. But sin is very serious to God. Sin is what put Jesus Christ on the cross. That is how serious God treats sin.

Do you feel it is fair and just for a believer to sin just like an unbeliever and still make it into heaven if they are not sorry about what they do and they are not seeking to change?

 

[Jason0047]

I have no issue with God's word convicting us what I have a problem with is how ppl misuse and treat his word. But you ask why would god do that to a person. Well you are asking a question that has been asked since the beginning of time. we don't know why God allows certain things or why he does the things he does but his thoughts are our thoughts and his ways are not our ways.

No, you will not find one teaching in the Bible that says we are not perfect and that we cannot stop from sinning. If you were to research the Bible at Blue Letter Bible.org on the keywords "perfect" and "cease sin" and "ceased sin", you would see that there are verses that would refute what you have been taught or studied.

Just because God allows something we don't like or agree with doesn't mean he is wrong.

God never allows for a believer to think that sinning is okay. If He did, He would not be a Holy God.

Believe me I want nothing more than to be out of this flesh no longer held down by my human sinful nature no longer seeing through the fleshly eyes and loving with the fleshly heart but I know and understand that this is how things are and not because of God but because of us.

We are the ones who chose to eat the fruit we are the ones who screwed up not him.

No, we are to be born again and transformed spiritually. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few (not many) be there that find it. God does not want His people to condone sin or to promote the idea that we cannot stop being a slave to sin. Paul says we are slaves to righteousness (Romans 6). In other words, if one is not a slave to righteousness, then that means they are a slave to sin. John says he that sins is of the devil. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.