Keeping the law = Salvation (Right???)

[Jason0047]

Maybe I didn't put it across very well I know it was a long post.

What I meant is that no one need go to hell any more because of their sin, as Jesus has paid the price for them.
The problem is if they reject Jesus, the corner stone, then they are in big trouble because they cannot pay the price
for their own sin and live.

So in essence they go to hell because they reject the free gift of salvation, death has lost its sting but they reject
the antidote etc.

So a believer can commit a sin like say lying (not confess of it) and then die and still be saved?

 

[Jason0047]

You denied that Christ has forgiven all our sins, so I responded with...

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Have you changed your mind or do you continue to twist Scripture?

I provided the context (that is not talking about future sin) and you are ignoring it. Also, you have not addressed the other verses I brought up.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

true, even we in Christ should never get so puffed up that because we do not do these sins, we are ok. it is when we think we are ok that satan comes in and takes us down. We need to ALWAYS come to God in humility. thats why legalism is so dangerous, even to those who have come to true faith, because it either forces us to lie to ourselves and makes us useless to God. or admit defeat and walk away.

It takes the Focus off Christ Crucified, what He has done for you.. legalism , modern day pharisees, Scribes..... oh believe Me... He chastised me back as a young Christian.. got my focus off Him and what He had done at the tree for me, made it about 'me'.. and how much I was going to do for God and how great it was.... He sat me back down below the Cross, and today the Peaceable Fruit of Righteousness is yielded, Faith in His complete Atoning Work, as Sufficient, with the FOCUS on God and His Son Crucified, Christ Crucified!.. of your His He will bring you back to the Foot of the Cross of Christ, thats a humble place.. for it shows you how weak, and un deserving, and really powerless WITHOUT Him in your life.. It only took ONE CHASTISEMENT to yield that .. INDEED! AND if you have experienced the Father's Hand, you will know what He means when He disciplines, it was not fun.. but I'm glad He did it.. so thankful.. Salvation and Merits of it are all ABOUT GOD... indeed! flowing thru the bloody Tree, where He gave Himself!

 

[crossnote]

I provided the context (that is not talking about future sin) and you are ignoring it. Also, you have not addressed the other verses I brought up.

I'm on a tablet so my responses are short and to the point (try it).
ALL SIN...not just past. Forgiven. You can't seem to get past that.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

When Christ died ALL our sins were future. ..FORGIVEN.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did you notice how you didn't even address the verses I brought up but yet you just quoted a verse that appears to support your Theology instead?.However, it does not say future sin is forgiven you. Being forgiven of all trespasses is in context to past sin and not future sin. We know this because it talks about how we used to be sinners and that those who still sin have the wrath of God abiding on them in the next chapter.

Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. (Colossians 3:5-7).

I would rather use what paul said.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[SUP][a][/SUP] nor sodomites, [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

it says everything they have was dobe by God, given by God and performed by God. Nothing of what they had done, or did not do. Like your preaching.

Talk about picking and chosing verses..

 

[Jason0047]

You denied that Christ has forgiven all our sins, so I responded with...

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Have you changed your mind or do you continue to twist Scripture? ALL SIN, ALL, ALL.

You are in a feed back loop of seeing only what you want to see and not what the Scriptures are actually saying according to the context. I showed you the context of the following chapter. It says they used to be sinners and anyone who abides in those types of sins has the wrath of God abiding on them. So this negates any kind of teaching that future sin is forgiven you. Besides, you are still not addressing the other verses I brought up.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So a believer can commit a sin like say lying (not confess of it) and then die and still be saved?

1. did jesus pay for that sin?
2. How do you know the believer even remembered he commited that sin, or that it was even a known sin?
3. Is grace not still in effect. or have we now moved to works?

either way, question 1 trumps all the other questions.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

btw.... if ye are claiming to KNOW HIM... but do not yield the Peaceable fruit of Righteousness and have never tasted the Father's Chastising Hand, then ye are spurious.. sown of the Wicked One.. indeed! For Whom the Father Loves, He disciplines! indeed!

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not Sons.

Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them Reverence: shall we not much rather be in Subjection unto the Father of spirits, and Live?

For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be Partakers of His Holiness.

Now no chastening for the Present seemeth to be Joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it Yieldeth the Peaceable fruit of Righteousness unto Them which are Exercised thereby. Hebrews!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are in a feed back loop of seeing only what you want to see and not what the Scriptures are actually saying according to the context. I showed you the context of the following chapter. It says they used to be sinners and anyone who abides in those types of sins has the wrath of God abiding on them. So this negates any kind of teaching that future sin is forgiven you. Besides, you are still not addressing the other verses I brought up.

see, You are a pharisee.

You do not do "Those sins" so you do not have to repent of your own sins, because your ok.

 

[Jason0047]

It takes the Focus off Christ Crucified, what He has done for you.. legalism , modern day pharisees, Scribes..... oh believe Me... He chastised me back as a young Christian.. got my focus off Him and what He had done at the tree for me, made it about 'me'.. and how much I was going to do for God and how great it was.... He sat me back down below the Cross, and today the Peaceable Fruit of Righteousness is yielded, Faith in His complete Atoning Work, as Sufficient, with the FOCUS on God and His Son Crucified, Christ Crucified!.. of your His He will bring you back to the Foot of the Cross of Christ, thats a humble place.. for it shows you how weak, and un deserving, and really powerless WITHOUT Him in your life.. It only took ONE CHASTISEMENT to yield that .. INDEED! AND if you have experienced the Father's Hand, you will know what He means when He disciplines, it was not fun.. but I'm glad He did it.. so thankful.. Salvation and Merits of it are all ABOUT GOD... indeed! flowing thru the bloody Tree, where He gave Himself!

Let's cut to the bottom line here. Do you believe you can abide in unrepentant sin and still be saved? Yes, or no? If you say yes.... you are condoning a sin and still be saved doctrine. Which would mean God would be in approval of the evil that you are doing in His name because He is rewarding with Heaven despite the evil or sin you are doing here.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

paint drying
grass grow

 

[seed_time_harvest]

They don't have to say it. They already believe all future sin is forgiven and they believe no believer can cease from sin. So it is a belief that allows for one to think they can sin and still be saved.

you would be grateful and desire to live right after receiving grace and you would not be thinking i will be forgiven no matter how much i sin.
But nevertheless under grace if we confess our sins then he is just and faithful to forgive us of our sins and cleanse from all unrighteousness.

 

[Jason0047]

see, You are a pharisee.

You do not do "Those sins" so you do not have to repent of your own sins, because your ok.

See, that is your only leverage is to falsely assume that I and or all true believers are slaves to sin. Jesus said to the Pharisees in John 8 that they were slaves to sin because his word did not abide within them. Meaning, they did not obey His Words.

 

[crossnote]

You are in a feed back loop of seeing only what you want to see and not what the Scriptures are actually saying according to the context. I showed you the context of the following chapter. It says they used to be sinners and anyone who abides in those types of sins has the wrath of God abiding on them. So this negates any kind of teaching that future sin is forgiven you. Besides, you are still not addressing the other verses I brought up.

So this verse is nullified in your books?

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Remeber when Christ died ALL our sins were future, but I guess to you they weren't ALL forgiven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's cut to the bottom line here. Do you believe you can abide in unrepentant sin and still be saved? Yes, or no? If you say yes.... you are condoning a sin and still be saved doctrine. Which would mean God would be in approval of the evil that you are doing in His name because He is rewarding with Heaven despite the evil or sin you are doing here.

lets cut to the chase.

Do you believe a person born of God, justified by God, sanctified by God, made alive by God, and adopted by God, would live in unrepentant sin, especially since God will chasten them for all sin. and all the sins they commit are a horrific poison to their new creation, and as such, causes pain and suffering unlike before they came to Christ?

Your problem is your faith is in your ability, and not in Gods ability. and your complete lack of knowledge of what a new creation in christ brings all who are adopted into his family.

 

[Jason0047]

you would be grateful and desire to live right after receiving grace and you would not be thinking i will be forgiven no matter how much i sin.
But nevertheless under grace if we confess our sins then he is just and faithful to forgive us of our sins and cleanse from all unrighteousness.

Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other. So no. You can't ignore an open wound in your body anymore than one can ignore sin within their life. Sin needs to be taken to Jesus by confessing it to Him and by forsaking it with His help.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

See, that is your only leverage is to falsely assume that I and or all true believers are slaves to sin. Jesus said to the Pharisees in John 8 that they were slaves to sin because his word did not abide within them. Meaning, they did not obey His Words.

Your not a true believer, if you were, you would do as Peter James and Paul did, and humble yourselves in all areas. and stop condemning others and puffing yourself up about how Good you are.

Your faith is in yourself. NOT GOD!

 

[Jason0047]

lets cut to the chase.

Do you believe a person born of God, justified by God, sanctified by God, made alive by God, and adopted by God, would live in unrepentant sin, especially since God will chasten them for all sin. and all the sins they commit are a horrific poison to their new creation, and as such, causes pain and suffering unlike before they came to Christ?

Your problem is your faith is in your ability, and not in Gods ability. and your complete lack of knowledge of what a new creation in christ brings all who are adopted into his family.

What I see is that you have a very low regard for sin. For you believe no sin can truly separate you from the love of God. Which basically means God will just let you get away with occasionally lying, or lusting after a girl without you confessing and or forsaking such sins. However, we know the "Condemnation" mentioned in Scripture pulls the rug out from under such a false belief, though. For it says men loved darkness instead of the Light because their deeds were evil. For everyone that does evil hates the Light (See John 3:19-21).

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Let's cut to the bottom line here. Do you believe you can abide in unrepentant sin and still be saved? Yes, or no? If you say yes.... you are condoning a sin and still be saved doctrine. Which would mean God would be in approval of the evil that you are doing in His name because He is rewarding with Heaven despite the evil or sin you are doing here.

To abide in un repentant sin? a Genuine convert wont do that JASON.. because God wont let him/her continue to live in the flesh!.. its about God! not man ... you see your Error! as far as me abiding in un repentant sin. that wont happen, because He wont let it happen, I'm dead to sin, Die Daily, suffer in the flesh as Peter says... My Faith and Trust is in Him who gave Himself on the tree.. you make the Gospel about 'you and your power or abilities Jason'.. you truly .. exactly the ERROR I was chastised for as a YOUNG CHRISTIAN.. some 18 year ago or so...

in all honesty Jason.. you do despite unto the Spirit of Grace, and you blaspheme the Holy Ghost, calling the Work of the Spirit of Grace in my life and others on here 'evil'. sorry that will never be forgiven... sorry.. you have SEALED your fate..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What I see is that you have a very low regard for sin and that you believe no sin can truly separate you from the love of God. Which basically means God will just let you get away with occasionally lying, or lusting after a girl without you confessing and or forsaking such sins. See, you are fighting against me on this because of the "Condemnation" mentioned in Scripture (See John 3:19-21).

No, I have a very high understanding of what all sin in, not just the few sins you want to preach against. of course sin can separate us from God, and cause God to stop blessing us, and instead have to chasten us.

Your problem is, you have never experienced the chastening of God (And I must wonder if your parents ever chastened you, since you think we can resists the chastening of God)

what need is their of chastening if we are sinless. maybe your not chastened because as paul says you are illegitimate and not a true son.