OSAS doctrine denies the faith

[DiscipleDave]

You misrepresent the truth. As long as we abide in this tabernacle of flesh we are subject to it's weakness and we sin. Only when this body of flesh is transformed into a sinless body like unto His glorious body will we no longer sin.

If this logic were True, then Jesus would never have told a man and a woman to Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you. Strange thing for Him to say, if what you say is True. Also the Apostles teach us plainly to Awake to righteousness and sin not, if your logic is True, the Apostle would never have said that, And the are many, many verses which plainly teach us that it is possible, only this generation refuses to see that possibility. Is it not written to NOT obey the flesh and its desires? Yes, again your logic does not hold firm, your logic is built on sand, and most certainly does not line up with Scriptures, but what it does line up with quite nicely is the thinking of typical christians of this generation who love to sin, and make excuses as to why they do not have to cease from sinning.

The difference is that we do not enjoy sin and when we sin we learn to trust Christ even more.

Seriously that made me laugh. Everyone who KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY commits a sin, enjoys that sin. All sin is selfishness, All sin that is knowingly and willingly done, is because that person WANTS to commit that sin, if they did not want to commit that sin, they would not commit that sin in the first place. Now granted many who want to commit a particular sin, may feel conviction afterwards (Holy Ghost working in that persons life to try to convince that person how evil that sin was) But EVERYONE who knowingly and willingly commits sin, WANTS to do so. lol they don't enjoy it, that really made me laugh. Also you say because of your sinning it makes you Trust Jesus more. Again, laughing. Try Trusting Him BEFORE you commit the sin. Try looking to Him for Strength and Power to overcome the temptation, BEFORE you willingly commit the sin, then you look to Jesus, That is backward. When i am tempted to commit a sin, i immediately pray to Jesus to help me, to give me His Strength, to lend me His Power against that temptation, and guess what, He does, and the temptation goes away, and i do not commit that sin, because i TRUSTED JESUS to help me, if He does this for me, He will do it for you. The problem is, this generation loves to sin, why would they seek and Truth Jesus when they are tempted to commit sin, no not this generation, the generation would rather commit the sin, then and only then look to Jesus. these do not know the Truth, but believe the lies taught by men.

Col 2:18-23 are worth a read. You cannot will to not sin and be entirely successful.

Says you, but Scriptures does not teach that nonsense. Want to see many verses which contrary to what you just said then read Sin No More. Granted most will not read it, do you know why, Because they love to sin, and are not willing to read the Scriptures which plainly teach to STOP IT or else. Oh my, read it, and you may just have to give up your life as you are living it, and become a servant/slave to Jesus Christ, and and you might learn through Scriptures that you need to cease from sinning, Oh can't have that, better not read that. Much weeping and gnashing of teeth from this generation.

Want to see a verse that most Christians when they stand before God on Judgment Day are going to hear?

1Co_15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

And they will not be able to plead ignorance on that Day. So try as you may to interpret that verse to mean something other than what it plainly teaches, so you do not have to change your current life that you are living, that you think "All is Well"

^i^ Responding to post # 1053

 

[kennethcadwell]

Places where the 10 Commandments are shown to be upheld in the NT covenant




Old Testament New Testament
--------------- ----------------


First
Commandment
Exodus 20:3;
Deuteronomy 5:7 Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8; Revelation 14:7


Second
Commandment
Exodus 20:4-6;
Deuteronomy 5:8-10 Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-20; Ephesians 5:5


Third
Commandment
Exodus 20:7;
Deuteronomy 5:11 Matthew 5:33-37; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7


Fourth
Commandment
Exodus 20:8-11;
Deuteronomy 5:12-15 Luke 4:16; 23:55-56; Acts 17:1-2; 18:4; Hebrews 4:9; 1 John 2:6


Fifth
Commandment
Exodus 20:12;
Deuteronomy 5:16 Matthew 15:4-9; 19:19; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; Ephesians 6:1-3


Sixth
Commandment
Exodus 20:13;
Deuteronomy 5: 17 Matthew 5:21-22; 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29-30; 13:9


Seventh
Commandment
Exodus 20:14;
Deuteronomy 5:18 Matthew 5:27-28; 19:18; Mark 10:11-12, 19; Luke 16:18; 18:20; Romans 7:2-3; 13:9


Eighth
Commandment
Exodus 20:15;
Deuteronomy 5:19 Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 9:21


Ninth
Commandment
Exodus 20:16;
Deuteronomy 5:20 Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Acts 5:3-4; Romans 13:9; Ephesians 4:25


10th
Commandment
Exodus 20:17;
Deuteronomy 5:21 Luke 12:15; Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21; Ephesians 5:3, 5

 

[Jason0047]

Fourth
Commandment
Exodus 20:8-11;
Deuteronomy 5:12-15 Luke 4:16; 23:55-56;

This was all Old Covenant and not the New Covenant. The New Covenant officially began with Christ' death upon the cross when the temple veil was torn in two.

Acts 17:1-2; 18:4;

Paul became a Jew to win the Jews. It is not wrong to keep the Sabbath. We can worship the Sabbath any day now according to Paul. For Paul says some men regard all days the same (Romans 14:5); And we are not to judge anyone according to holy days or Sabbaths (Colossians 2:16).

Hebrews 4:9;

Has to be read in context to verses 9 and 10. It speaks of another rest. This would be a rest in Christ.

1 John 2:6

This was pertaining to the New Covenant and not the Old Covenant. While one most certainly can do so (It is certainly not a requirement), For Paul makes it clear that there some who regard all days the same. So we have a liberty in Christ. For Christ most definitely would have eaten food that was only clean according to the Law. But Peter was told to eat unclean animals. Should Peter have ignored that vision? No, of course not.

As for the other 9 Commandments. Yes, they have been repeated in the New Testament because they are moral laws which would fall under the category of loving God and loving your neighbor.

 

[kennethcadwell]

This was all Old Covenant and not the New Covenant. The New Covenant officially began with Christ' death upon the cross when the temple veil was torn in two.



Paul became a Jew to win the Jews. It is not wrong to keep the Sabbath. We can worship the Sabbath any day now according to Paul. For Paul says some men regard all days the same (Romans 14:5); And we are not to judge anyone according to holy days or Sabbaths (Colossians 2:16).



Has to be read in context to verses 9 and 10. It speaks of another rest. This would be a rest in Christ.



This was pertaining to the New Covenant and not the Old Covenant. While one most certainly can do so (It is certainly not a requirement), For Paul makes it clear that there some who regard all days the same. So we have a liberty in Christ. For Christ most definitely would have eaten food that were only clean according to the Law. But Peter was told to eat unclean animals. Should Peter have ignored that vision? No, of course not.

Obviously you have not read all the scriptures I gave or you would not have said this was all old covenant and not new covenant.

Both Lord Jesus and the Apostle Paul both showed by love the 10 Commandments will be upheld.
If you love another you will do not wrong to them therefore you would not be transgressing/breaking any of the 10 Commandments.

I gave a chart that clearly shows the 10 Commandments are upheld under the new covenant.
Those scriptures are not speaking of them being in the old covenant only, and even the Apostles by the Holy Spirit gave in Acts 15:20, 29 other standards that still apply under the new covenant.

I know the Sabbath is not considered by a day in the new covenant, because Hebrews clearly tells us that our Sabbath rest is in Jesus now. And we are to give all days to God !!!

Where are you going with 1 John 2:6?
It is not saying anything about what to eat or not to eat in that verse, for it is talking about abiding in Christ one is to walk as He walked. Meaning a person who abides in Christ unto salvation is to walk in love, mercy, and forgiveness.
And it is most definitely a requirement for salvation to walk properly in the faith, as one can not say they abide in Christ but serve the flesh by living deliberate sinful lifestyle.

 

[Jason0047]

Obviously you have not read all the scriptures I gave or you would not have said this was all old covenant and not new covenant.

Both Lord Jesus and the Apostle Paul both showed by love the 10 Commandments will be upheld.
If you love another you will do not wrong to them therefore you would not be transgressing/breaking any of the 10 Commandments.

I gave a chart that clearly shows the 10 Commandments are upheld under the new covenant.
Those scriptures are not speaking of them being in the old covenant only, and even the Apostles by the Holy Spirit gave in Acts 15:20, 29 other standards that still apply under the new covenant.

I know the Sabbath is not considered by a day in the new covenant, because Hebrews clearly tells us that our Sabbath rest is in Jesus now. And we are to give all days to God !!!

Where are you going with 1 John 2:6?
It is not saying anything about what to eat or not to eat in that verse, for it is talking about abiding in Christ one is to walk as He walked. Meaning a person who abides in Christ unto salvation is to walk in love, mercy, and forgiveness.
And it is most definitely a requirement for salvation to walk properly in the faith, as one can not say they abide in Christ but serve the flesh by living deliberate sinful lifestyle.

They gathered on the first day of the week. So how was that a keeping of the Sabbath?

As for the other 9, I agree that they are in the New Covenant and that they are still binding Commands.

 

[kennethcadwell]

They gathered on the first day of the week. So how was that a keeping of the Sabbath?

As for the other 9, I agree that they are in the New Covenant and that they are still binding Commands.

You are giving only one scripture by the stating of they gathered on the first day of the week.
You do know that keeping the Sabbath holy really does not have anything to do with going to church to worship, it is a day of rest. And the first day of the week was Sunday, not Saturday, which Saturday is the actual Sabbath day.

With that being said the Lord Jesus and Gods word from Matthew 12:1, Mark 3:1-6, and Hebrews 4 shows how the Sabbath is now observed under the new covenant. It is not done away with, only how we are to observe it now has changed.

 

[Jason0047]

You are giving only one scripture by the stating of they gathered on the first day of the week.
You do know that keeping the Sabbath holy really does not have anything to do with going to church to worship, it is a day of rest. And the first day of the week was Sunday, not Saturday, which Saturday is the actual Sabbath day.

Yes, that is why I said it. The first day of the week is Sunday. And the Sabbath is Saturday. They gathered for worship on Sunday. The Sabbath day has not changed. However, we have a liberty in Christ to worship Christ any day of the week now.

With that being said the Lord Jesus and Gods word from Matthew 12:1, Mark 3:1-6, and Hebrews 4 shows how the Sabbath is now observed under the new covenant. It is not done away with, only how we are to observe it now has changed.

Matthew and Mark are still of the Old Covenant and Hebrews 4 teaches the opposite of what you think.

 

[BradC]

You believe that you will forever be a slave to sin in this life? Yes?
If that is what you believe, then yes.... you are condoning sin because it would be like the alcoholic who says they will never be able to stop drinking on their road to being sober free.

Why do you obsess with this notion that other believers have relinquished their life to being a slave to sin? You are in some kind of rut in your doctrine because we have been made free from sin, which does not mean that we won't have bouts with sin along the way. The alcoholic is in bondage to alcohol through an addition and needs to be delivered or to just put it aside because it is not good for them and has no benefit and will eventually take their life. God will deliver the believer from this addiction and any other addiction, including prostitution (male or female) who come to him. He has promised to give them rest and peace in their heart. Many people revert to these things because their heart is troubled and they have no provision or scapegoat.

Jason, your whole premise for your understanding concerning these things is not right. Maybe you have had a bout with much sin in the past or you know of others close to you who have and you have come to your own own conclusions through the word as to how God delivers those in bondage to sin, even the believer. What if God left you with a certain weakness in your flesh that was always causing you to sin or fall into sin and would not remove it. You cry out to him to remove it but he doesn't seem to be listening. So you take it upon yourself that you are going to confess and repent of every sin you have ever committed all over again just in case you missed something to see if that gets God's attention...nothing.

The weakness is still there, your are still tempted and yes you fail again. So you confess it and repent and tell God you won't do that again. God looks on and says to himself, you want to make a bet! All this time he has wanted to give you grace and instead you keep confessing and repenting. He wants to make his strength perfect in your weakness but you are so busy confessing and repenting that you miss it and think that God has forsaken you because of your sin. Then you get into this inner debate that your past is forgiven but not your future so you better act accordingly or you will miss out on salvation. So you take the high ground and purpose to never sin no matter what and then...you guessed it...bang...you failed again. All this time God is trying to teach you that your sin has been put away through the cross and you can receive grace and walk in the strength of that grace through the Holy Spirit and no longer do you have to be mentally and emotionally in bondage to sin because of your weakness.

This is the practical reality of the believer in relationship to the cross that put all sin away so that we could be a servant of righteousness by grace through faith as we learn to lay aside what God has put away through the cross. Sin is no longer the issue, it is the cross and grace of God and being lead by the Spirit. We are clean and our life is hid with Christ in God. We reckon ourselves to be dead in deed unto sin and alive unto God. If we sin we look to the cross and we see Christ as our advocate who bore our sins upon his own body. This is always to be our focal point and if there is a greater issue involved God will reveal it to us.

 

[Mitspa]

1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

1Jo 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 ¶ Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Its sad that so many are so unsure of their salvation and look to dead works to try and "earn" what God will only give freely by faith

True Believers have boldness and confidence that they are secure in Christ, the Holy Spirit bearing witness to eternal life

Oh that some would believe in Christ and receive eternal life !

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of my hand.

 

[Grandpa]

If this logic were True, then Jesus would never have told a man and a woman to Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you. Strange thing for Him to say, if what you say is True.

Its not that strange.

How is the law a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ? Its because we can't do it and we need help.

The Lord tells us to do things we can't do so we will come to Him. And then we will know why He gave those commands.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I wonder if part of the veil is thinking that you, a person in the flesh, can do the things that the Lord commands. I wonder how people have all these theories and perform mental gymnastics in order to not see that it is the Lord Himself who performs these commands, through us, if we rest in Him. It's His Work. His Finished Work.

It seems to be the same veil that causes people to not see His Work of Salvation as well. Apparently He needs our help???

When we come to Christ we should learn one important Truth. Trust in Christ.

When we were at our worst, we trusted in Christ. What changes??? If we learned to trust in Christ then how would we forget this important lesson? How do you un-know the Power of Christ?

Does He only lend a hand to the Christian and then the Christian is on his own to perform the law and all of Gods other requirements? Or have we learned that we can always trust in Christ?

Apparently some have learned they can trust in Christ. What happened to the rest of you? Did you think that you performed anything that God Requires on your own???

Are you now perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect? If not, what do you do? Hope He relaxes His Standard?

 

[notuptome]

If this logic were True, then Jesus would never have told a man and a woman to Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you. Strange thing for Him to say, if what you say is True. Also the Apostles teach us plainly to Awake to righteousness and sin not, if your logic is True, the Apostle would never have said that, And the are many, many verses which plainly teach us that it is possible, only this generation refuses to see that possibility. Is it not written to NOT obey the flesh and its desires? Yes, again your logic does not hold firm, your logic is built on sand, and most certainly does not line up with Scriptures, but what it does line up with quite nicely is the thinking of typical christians of this generation who love to sin, and make excuses as to why they do not have to cease from sinning.

Paul should have come to you for advice on this matter. Poor old Paul the chiefest of sinners who willed not to sin yet sinned. Rom 7:15-21 If only Paul were as holy as you he need not have struggled against sin.

Seriously that made me laugh. Everyone who KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY commits a sin, enjoys that sin. All sin is selfishness, All sin that is knowingly and willingly done, is because that person WANTS to commit that sin, if they did not want to commit that sin, they would not commit that sin in the first place. Now granted many who want to commit a particular sin, may feel conviction afterwards (Holy Ghost working in that persons life to try to convince that person how evil that sin was) But EVERYONE who knowingly and willingly commits sin, WANTS to do so. lol they don't enjoy it, that really made me laugh. Also you say because of your sinning it makes you Trust Jesus more. Again, laughing. Try Trusting Him BEFORE you commit the sin. Try looking to Him for Strength and Power to overcome the temptation, BEFORE you willingly commit the sin, then you look to Jesus, That is backward. When i am tempted to commit a sin, i immediately pray to Jesus to help me, to give me His Strength, to lend me His Power against that temptation, and guess what, He does, and the temptation goes away, and i do not commit that sin, because i TRUSTED JESUS to help me, if He does this for me, He will do it for you. The problem is, this generation loves to sin, why would they seek and Truth Jesus when they are tempted to commit sin, no not this generation, the generation would rather commit the sin, then and only then look to Jesus. these do not know the Truth, but believe the lies taught by men.

You must read James 1:1-14. The Pharisees did not believe they had any sin.

Says you, but Scriptures does not teach that nonsense. Want to see many verses which contrary to what you just said then read Sin No More. Granted most will not read it, do you know why, Because they love to sin, and are not willing to read the Scriptures which plainly teach to STOP IT or else. Oh my, read it, and you may just have to give up your life as you are living it, and become a servant/slave to Jesus Christ, and and you might learn through Scriptures that you need to cease from sinning, Oh can't have that, better not read that. Much weeping and gnashing of teeth from this generation.

Want to see a verse that most Christians when they stand before God on Judgment Day are going to hear?

1Co_15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

And they will not be able to plead ignorance on that Day. So try as you may to interpret that verse to mean something other than what it plainly teaches, so you do not have to change your current life that you are living, that you think "All is Well"

^i^ Responding to post # 1053

It seems that I would be hard pressed to find another poster who is a self righteous as you. You are so perfect you hardly need Jesus to save you.

I need Gods grace everyday and I need Gods tender mercies everyday. Whether I abound or whether I am abased I need Gods grace.

At the judgment seat of Christ I will boast only in Christ not in myself. Not my merits but His. He is worthy not me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[yaright]

So did Abraham not substitute a ram for Isaac? It was not a type of surrender to One Who redeems. It was a substitutionary thank ogffering. This was a type of the GREAT SUBSTITUTE Who bore our sins in His own body on the tree. You are just making it up as you go along.

The only reason that the word substitute is not found in the Bible is simply because translators decided not to use it. The concept is found everywhere.

Jesus reveals the action and the purpose. If you desire to reach back into the Old Testament in the literal sense, ignoring what Jesus did and what His Father said, than be consistent with your concept. The actual literal words of Jesus being sacrificed are not in the Old Testament. In your own words, you must successfully defeat God, because surrender is out of the question with you.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant So did Abraham not substitute a ram for Isaac? It was not a type of surrender to One Who redeems. It was a substitutionary thank offering. This was a type of the GREAT SUBSTITUTE Who bore our sins in His own body on the tree. You are just making it up as you go along.

The only reason that the word substitute is not found in the Bible is simply because translators decided not to use it. The concept is found everywhere.

Jesus reveals the action and the purpose. If you desire to reach back into the Old Testament in the literal sense, ignoring what Jesus did and what His Father said, than be consistent with your concept. The actual literal words of Jesus being sacrificed are not in the Old Testament.

Yet it pleased YHWH to bruise Him, He has put Him to grief, when you shall make His life a guilt offering, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of YHWH will prosper in His hand' (Isaiah 53.10).

Seems pretty clear to me.

In your own words, you must successfully defeat God, because surrender is out of the question with you.

I have seen many stupid things said on this site, but that is the most stupid of all.

 

[valiant]

If this logic were True, then Jesus would never have told a man and a woman to Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you. Strange thing for Him to say, if what you say is True.

The Bible constantly tells people not to sin. But it also makes clear that it is an achievement which is not possible until after death. In fact Jesus just spoke to a woman who had committed adultery, and the prime meaning of His words was 'do not commit adultery again.'

Also the Apostles teach us plainly to Awake to righteousness and sin not, if your logic is True, the Apostle would never have said that,

your logic is at fault. The aim was that men would have an intent to follow after righteousness without sinning. It did not mean that they could completely achieve it.

Indeed you yourself sin every day, for you do not without ceasing love God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength and everyone in the world as yourself. If you say that you do you are simply a liar (1.John 1.10).

 

[yaright]

Yet it pleased YHWH to bruise Him, He has put Him to grief, when you shall make His life a guilt offering, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of YHWH will prosper in His hand' (Isaiah 53.10).

Seems pretty clear to me.



I have seen many stupid things said on this site, but that is the most stupid of all.

You have an advantage over me. For you, being all knowing, has given you the power to elevate yourself above others.

 

[yaright]

Its not that strange.

How is the law a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ? Its because we can't do it and we need help.

The Lord tells us to do things we can't do so we will come to Him. And then we will know why He gave those commands.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I wonder if part of the veil is thinking that you, a person in the flesh, can do the things that the Lord commands. I wonder how people have all these theories and perform mental gymnastics in order to not see that it is the Lord Himself who performs these commands, through us, if we rest in Him. It's His Work. His Finished Work.

It seems to be the same veil that causes people to not see His Work of Salvation as well. Apparently He needs our help???

When we come to Christ we should learn one important Truth. Trust in Christ.

When we were at our worst, we trusted in Christ. What changes??? If we learned to trust in Christ then how would we forget this important lesson? How do you un-know the Power of Christ?

Does He only lend a hand to the Christian and then the Christian is on his own to perform the law and all of Gods other requirements? Or have we learned that we can always trust in Christ?

Apparently some have learned they can trust in Christ. What happened to the rest of you? Did you think that you performed anything that God Requires on your own???

Are you now perfect as your Father in Heaven is Perfect? If not, what do you do? Hope He relaxes His Standard?

There are so many examples that remain as answers. I like your approach. One of many examples that stand out to me is the end of a series of parable language that culminated in Peter being 'caught' in the things which seemed right to him, and Jesus speaking to Peter in that place of awakening (rooster). Jesus asked Peter to compare his thoughts towards his church and towards Jesus; "Do you love Me more than these?" Peter replied, "Lord, You know I love You." and again Jesus asked in this place Peter is about to get caught in his thoughts, "Do you love Me more than these?" Again Peter replied, "Lord, You know I love You." I must have been dense not to have seen this for so many years; and the third time had sprung the trap that caught Peter in his thoughts, "Do you love Me more than these?" Only then did Peter see something wrong, but Jesus needed to continue in the revealing. Peter replied with understanding he did not have before. Peter said and did things according to the things which seemed right to him this parable is meant for All (will be made to stumble because of Me) who follow Jesus. Peter replied, "Lord, You KNOW ALL THINGS, You know I love You." We absolutely do say and do the the things which seem right to each of us. But Jesus reveals that nature which God made us with, was and is deceived from the beginning, and Satan's deception is so clever that we cannot see it happening. Jesus spoke of Satan's deception early on in a series of parables to reveal what had taken place. The deception is so profound that even to this day it is taught as being Peter's pride, and that we shouldn't be like him. What? Jesus gave this to each of us so that we could see the deception that took place in each and every one of us. I have seen the fingers pointed at Peter in many of the present christian religions. The deception is so profound that we missed seeing that all the other disciples agreed with Peter. ALL of them. I like your approach because without realizing it, we say trust in Christ, but until we are shown on a personal level like Peter, we do not realize just how much more we trust in the things which seem right to us, because we were made with that nature.

 

[valiant]

Originally posted by yaright
- In your own words, you must successfully defeat God, because surrender is out of the question with you.

Originally Posted by valiant Yet it pleased YHWH to bruise Him, He has put Him to grief, when you shall make His life a guilt offering, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of YHWH will prosper in His hand' (Isaiah 53.10).

Seems pretty clear to me.



I have seen many stupid things said on this site, but that is the most stupid of all.

You have an advantage over me. For you, being all knowing, has given you the power to elevate yourself above others.

Are you the pot or the kettle? :}

 

[yaright]

Yes, that is why I said it. The first day of the week is Sunday. And the Sabbath is Saturday. They gathered for worship on Sunday. The Sabbath day has not changed. However, we have a liberty in Christ to worship Christ any day of the week now.


Matthew and Mark are still of the Old Covenant and Hebrews 4 teaches the opposite of what you think.

I don't believe you would be speaking against the traditions of your christian religion; to say the traditions of another christian religion sees Sunday as the day of rest to worship Christ. All christian traditions are but the mere image of the true. These are also tied to Old Testament biblical festivals and traditions which are also the mere image of the true. For the longest time I was not able to understand what was real verses what the tradition meant. Whether I worshipped Jesus on Saturday or Sunday by the works of tradition did not make as much difference in my life as talking with Him every day. Even though the Lord's prayer required this of me, the work of that tradition brought little if any satisfaction until I began to actually want to talk with Him. So to say this day or that day is the actual Sabbath day has very little value if the person has no desire to Love and worship Him. I will not say that the works of tradition cannot or does not teach. Traditions speak of the things our Heavenly Father and Jesus have done out of their love for us. Thank you for your witness of traditions. What you have shared is no small thing.

 

[Jason0047]

Why do you obsess with this notion that other believers have relinquished their life to being a slave to sin? You are in some kind of rut in your doctrine because we have been made free from sin, which does not mean that we won't have bouts with sin along the way. The alcoholic is in bondage to alcohol through an addition and needs to be delivered or to just put it aside because it is not good for them and has no benefit and will eventually take their life. God will deliver the believer from this addiction and any other addiction, including prostitution (male or female) who come to him. He has promised to give them rest and peace in their heart. Many people revert to these things because their heart is troubled and they have no provision or scapegoat.

Jason, your whole premise for your understanding concerning these things is not right. Maybe you have had a bout with much sin in the past or you know of others close to you who have and you have come to your own own conclusions through the word as to how God delivers those in bondage to sin, even the believer. What if God left you with a certain weakness in your flesh that was always causing you to sin or fall into sin and would not remove it. You cry out to him to remove it but he doesn't seem to be listening. So you take it upon yourself that you are going to confess and repent of every sin you have ever committed all over again just in case you missed something to see if that gets God's attention...nothing.

The weakness is still there, your are still tempted and yes you fail again. So you confess it and repent and tell God you won't do that again. God looks on and says to himself, you want to make a bet! All this time he has wanted to give you grace and instead you keep confessing and repenting. He wants to make his strength perfect in your weakness but you are so busy confessing and repenting that you miss it and think that God has forsaken you because of your sin. Then you get into this inner debate that your past is forgiven but not your future so you better act accordingly or you will miss out on salvation. So you take the high ground and purpose to never sin no matter what and then...you guessed it...bang...you failed again. All this time God is trying to teach you that your sin has been put away through the cross and you can receive grace and walk in the strength of that grace through the Holy Spirit and no longer do you have to be mentally and emotionally in bondage to sin because of your weakness.

This is the practical reality of the believer in relationship to the cross that put all sin away so that we could be a servant of righteousness by grace through faith as we learn to lay aside what God has put away through the cross. Sin is no longer the issue, it is the cross and grace of God and being lead by the Spirit. We are clean and our life is hid with Christ in God. We reckon ourselves to be dead in deed unto sin and alive unto God. If we sin we look to the cross and we see Christ as our advocate who bore our sins upon his own body. This is always to be our focal point and if there is a greater issue involved God will reveal it to us.

You say we are delivered from addictions like alcoholism and on the other hand if you still believe as I last remembered, you hold to the view that you cannot stop sinning. However, Jesus says if you sin, you are a slave to sin. A slave is someone who is addicted or a slave to something. In other words, the person who believes they will forever sin is like the alcoholic who cannot stop drinking. Meaning, what you believe is a contradiction.

 

[jennaleanne]

Why do you obsess with this notion that other believers have relinquished their life to being a slave to sin? You are in some kind of rut in your doctrine because we have been made free from sin, which does not mean that we won't have bouts with sin along the way. The alcoholic is in bondage to alcohol through an addition and needs to be delivered or to just put it aside because it is not good for them and has no benefit and will eventually take their life. God will deliver the believer from this addiction and any other addiction, including prostitution (male or female) who come to him. He has promised to give them rest and peace in their heart. Many people revert to these things because their heart is troubled and they have no provision or scapegoat.

Jason, your whole premise for your understanding concerning these things is not right. Maybe you have had a bout with much sin in the past or you know of others close to you who have and you have come to your own own conclusions through the word as to how God delivers those in bondage to sin, even the believer. What if God left you with a certain weakness in your flesh that was always causing you to sin or fall into sin and would not remove it. You cry out to him to remove it but he doesn't seem to be listening. So you take it upon yourself that you are going to confess and repent of every sin you have ever committed all over again just in case you missed something to see if that gets God's attention...nothing.

The weakness is still there, your are still tempted and yes you fail again. So you confess it and repent and tell God you won't do that again. God looks on and says to himself, you want to make a bet! All this time he has wanted to give you grace and instead you keep confessing and repenting. He wants to make his strength perfect in your weakness but you are so busy confessing and repenting that you miss it and think that God has forsaken you because of your sin. Then you get into this inner debate that your past is forgiven but not your future so you better act accordingly or you will miss out on salvation. So you take the high ground and purpose to never sin no matter what and then...you guessed it...bang...you failed again. All this time God is trying to teach you that your sin has been put away through the cross and you can receive grace and walk in the strength of that grace through the Holy Spirit and no longer do you have to be mentally and emotionally in bondage to sin because of your weakness.

This is the practical reality of the believer in relationship to the cross that put all sin away so that we could be a servant of righteousness by grace through faith as we learn to lay aside what God has put away through the cross. Sin is no longer the issue, it is the cross and grace of God and being lead by the Spirit. We are clean and our life is hid with Christ in God. We reckon ourselves to be dead in deed unto sin and alive unto God. If we sin we look to the cross and we see Christ as our advocate who bore our sins upon his own body. This is always to be our focal point and if there is a greater issue involved God will reveal it to us.

These words ^^ Should be like water to a parched soul.. So full of life and truth.. I struggled with the message of grace for 5 years being a Christian.. Every time something went wrong in my life I thought it was something I had done wrong so I would sit in fear tormented by every sin I might have committed.. This is not freedom, Its bondage.. Galatians 5v1 Stand fast therefore in liberty that Christ has made you free, and do not be entangled with a yoke of bondage... We are totally and completely free from the power of sin, Does that mean we will never sin again, Of course not.. Should we ask forgiveness if we have been convicted of sin.. I believe so, 1 john 1 v9 If we confess our sins he is faithfull and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.. Does that mean its ok to keep sinning? NO WAY ! Romans 6 explains all of this... Its black and white.. God hates sin, But he knows all of our weaknesses.. I know I have fallen a million times a million times a million.. This was down to the fact I thought God was mad at me, The enemy lied to me about who God really was and because I didn't understand grace I was "working" to please God. This is impossible. Romans 2v4 changed everything for me.. Gods goodness is what leads us to repent. The more we know Gods love the less we want to do the things that grieve him.
Anyone who is in bondage in any area I encourage you to study the message of grace. Scripture without grace brings condemnation... Rest in his unmerited favour.. I am, and I tell you its beautiful. Thankyou Jesus! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx