Gifts - Tongues and the Interpretation of Tongues

[JesusIsAll]

Uhm... mine doesn't count?

Joshua, what part of discerning whether a tongue is Holy or not falls under 'general discernment'? Discernment of spirits includes discerning the Holy Spirit vs a false spirit, does it not?

Oh! Sorry. It looked like you were quoting some big old long thing of somebody else, first glance, didn't see it was your insertions in the quote. Hmm. Thank you, but doesn't quite explain the major divergence of Spirit activity, which, to be clearer, I wasn't expecting a satisfactory explanation for, but would like to see how it's explained, the singularity of certain congregations. You have to conclude, outright, some have it, most don't, so why, if it's truth (for rationale already posted)?

Would add I do much like a lot of your answer, agree there are things I wouldn't hesitate to call out as false and ridiculous, yes, if one has an ounce of sense and spirituality, head for the exits!

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Uhm... mine doesn't count?

Joshua, what part of discerning whether a tongue is Holy or not falls under 'general discernment'? Discernment of spirits includes discerning the Holy Spirit vs a false spirit, does it not?

Discerning of Spirits allows you to see and hear into the spiritual realm. It also does not include judging prophecy or a tongue or interpretation of a tongue.

discerning of spirits is seeing and hearing angels, demons, that sort of thing.

I remember once I was preaching at a meeting and I had given the altar call and 12 people came forward and as soon as they were saved I heard this sound like a mighty river, but it was so beautiful, it was like a choir I had never heard before.

Later that night during the fellowship dinner, the host pastor introduced me to his 92 year old mother and she looked at me and said, ya heard em did'nt ya man of God! I said pardon me, I heard what? She replied, once those 12 got saved you heard the angels in heaven rejoicing! It brought me to tears, because she was righter than rain. I said wow, that is what I heard, she said, yeah I heard em too and man of God, you should have seen how bright they got too!



I know this can be very confusing and not at all trying to pick a fight with you bro.

 

[RickyZ]

Oh! Sorry. It looked like you were quoting some big old long thing of somebody else, first glance, didn't see it was your insertions in the quote. Hmm. Thank you, but doesn't quite explain the major divergence of Spirit activity, which, to be clearer, I wasn't expecting a satisfactory explanation for, but would like to see how it's explained, the singularity of certain congregations. You have to conclude, outright, some have it, most don't, so why, if it's truth (for rationale already posted)?

Would add I do much like a lot of your answer, agree there are things I wouldn't hesitate to call out as false and ridiculous, yes, if one has an ounce of sense and spirituality, head for the exits!

No worries; I apologies for the humanistic response.

Your words the major divergence of Spirit activity, ... the singularity of certain congregations are the huge red flags you need to be looking for (and I sense you are). We are ONE BODY and any church on either side that wants to promote itself above that is cause for suspicion (which sadly to varying degrees pertains to most of them). Those that function in the gifts are NOT above any that don't. And vice versa. If they tell you any different walk away.

So what is the real difference? It's human availability, that's all. Make yourself available to them and they will flow thru you. Shut the door and they won't. It's as simple as that. This http://christianchat.com/blogs/rickyz/6714-power-faith.html will tell you all you need to know about it, and not in my words. Do you have faith in them and are you discerning enough to root out the falsehoods. If you have faith to say yes to both of those then make yourself available - privately. It's not in calling up wheelchair-bounds to a stage, it's about the friend of yours who's been feeling bad and a gentle hand on the shoulder and saying "in Jesus Name feel better". It's about seeing the bum panhandling and instead of money bringing him a sandwich and saying 'in Jesus Name be filled". It's about facing someone who's lost and asking, Lord give me words, and then letting those words flow thru your lips to their ears. It's about travailing in prayer, and confessing Lord I don't know all but You do, please pray thru me. These are the true Gifts, not that stage show every Sunday and Wednesday. You master these and you will make your Master very happy.

 

[RickyZ]

Discerning of Spirits allows you to see and hear into the spiritual realm.


Amen brother that's what it is all about.


It also does not include judging prophecy or a tongue or interpretation of a tongue.


Well, that's kinda what this whole discussion is about isn't it? Some say they're all real, some say they're all faked; as usual the truth lies somewhere in the middle (or with both). Don't we then need discernment to tell faked from true? (Here's an an example from experience*)


discerning of spirits is seeing and hearing angels, demons, that sort of thing.


Yes, exactly, but never is discernment more important (thus seeing angels and demons more important) than when the enemy is trying to hide. That my dear friend is when we need it the most.


I remember once I was preaching at a meeting and I had given the altar call and 12 people came forward and as soon as they were saved I heard this sound like a mighty river, but it was so beautiful, it was like a choir I had never heard before.

Later that night during the fellowship dinner, the host pastor introduced me to his 92 year old mother and she looked at me and said, ya heard em did'nt ya man of God! I said pardon me, I heard what? She replied, once those 12 got saved you heard the angels in heaven rejoicing! It brought me to tears, because she was righter than rain. I said wow, that is what I heard, she said, yeah I heard em too and man of God, you should have seen how bright they got too!


See? So you do believe in the true gifts Hallelujah!


I know this can be very confusing and not at all trying to pick a fight with you bro.

No fight at all, I got nothing but hugs for you when we meet upstairs (or even here if we're so lucky).

Here's that experience. Hope it helps.

*I’m in the nosebleed seats at a Christian concert when what appeared to be a person
in distress approached the stage. The performer rebukes her in the name of the
Lord, and security is called in to drag her away. The Spirit says “that’s not
Me” and I’m burdened with this need to go find and talk to the performer. So
when his set is over I make my way backstage to a security door. “Authorized
personnel Only.” But it’s unlocked and I go thru it into this long empty hall.
I’m walking along wondering where to go, and this voice behind me says “can I
help you sir?” I turn around it’s a security guard. Expecting to be thrown out,
I say I’m looking for the performer. The guard points down the direction I was
headed, and says 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] door on the right. I say thanks, turn and walk
that way, expecting the guy to stop me and ask if I had reason to be there.
When all I hear is silence I turn around and he’s gone. No footsteps, no doors,
just gone. So I knock on the star’s door, he lets me in. I describe my
experience to him, and he says that he had been having the same conviction.



Here was a gift of discernment, knowledge in where to go, a miracle appearance, and
confirmation in another’s discernment that testified to the glory of God. God
says He'll establish His word to us by 2 or more witnesses. Here by an act of
faith God used me to bring a second witness to His word that He'd already
spoken to another. I fall on my face in laughter and tears that trashy old me
could be used by Him for such!

Now, all you have to do is where it says I or me, write in your own name.

 

[FancyNancy]

What is funny is the fact that the only church who had an issue with this and of the which it is even mentioned to is the childish, immature Corinthian church which had some 16 particular things wrong with it....in essence people who push this, believe this and practice this say to the world they are immature babes in Christ...Paul in the very verses that YOU twist states that they are childish things that were put away when he became an adult....and that he would rather speak 5 words that can be understood than 10000 words of some mumbo jumbo that did not mean a thing.....You say you promote scripture right...how do you deal with the fact that most of the time it is women doing this and the bible tells women to keep silent in church and to not usurp authority over a man to teach in the assembly??????????? Let me guess.....I bet you don't keep silent do you?

I don't shout out in tongues for the congregation to hear, if it is me speaking to God. It isn't for them. It's for me. But I am not silent, either. Most of my speaking in tongues is done privately and when I am laying hands on someone. Holy Spirit's doing the talking.


As for your remark about women, that comes from a place of misunderstanding of Paul and scripture. The only time I have to be silent is alongside men and children when we are learning the word of God together in the church setting.

 

[presidente]

I don't speak in tongues and in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians he does seem to suggest it's the least important of the gifts. He also suggests that when tongues is spoken in public there should be an interpreter present yet I have never heard of anyone with the gift of interpretation? Has anyone here on CC?

Definitely. At least in the 1980's in Pentecostal churches, it happened quite often that someone would speak in tongues and someone else would interpret. When I was a teenager, I was active in the Assemblies of God denomination. I know that some of the Bible colleges were careful to teach that speaking in tongues was to be followed by an interpretation. I went to three A/G's, one for a short period of time. It sure seemed to me that it was generally accepted in A/G churches that tongues were to be interpreted. I never saw everyone speaking in tongues at the same time or the congregation being asked to speak in tongues.

I would think I've heard hundreds of messages in tongues an interpretations. It kind of happens like prophecies do in A/G and other Pentecostal churches. Either at a kind of lull in the song service, or just everything goes quiet and someone prophesies or someone speaks in tongues and interprets.

I believe there may be some Pentecostal churches among country southern folk from more Wesleyan Holiness side of the movement where people would pray in tongues at the same time. Some of the Charismatics encourage speaking or singing in tongues en masse. Benny Hinn tells everyone to speak in tongues.

But the A/G is the largest Pentecostal denomination. It's kind of a 'big tent' denomination with congregations having local autonomy, but ministerial ordination through the denomination with denominational Bible schools. So I suppose an individual congregation could have everyone speaking in tongues at the same time.

Preachers from the Word of Faith movement, a subset of the Charismatic movement, have been very successful in getting airtime on TV. Maybe some of them have left the impression that people who speak in tongues just do so all at the same time without an interpreter.

I know a couple of people who said they'd gotten interpretations of tongues and someone else gave the same interpretation before they could. One was a kid in middle school who went to the same church and Christian school I went to. Another was my college roommate. Of course, that sort of thing happens with prophecies. I've gotten words of knowledge only to hear someone else prophesy them as a part of a prophecy before I could share them. Or part of it would be shared in the prophecy.

It's also pretty cool when either a word of knowledge prophecy or an interpretation of tongue tells you what you were thinking or something specific about yourself or what you are going through. I've been on both ends of that

 

[presidente]

What fruits of the "Spirit" do you display? love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,gentleness and self-control?
Rarely is this seen by those who claim to have the "Spirit" although they do not have the anointing of His Holy Spirit. They are filthy dreamers and those who babble like pagans, friends of the world and enemies of God.

It could just be who you hang out with, or your own prejudices. I see plenty of people with fruits of the Spirit who believe in and operate in spiritual gifts. I see a correlation between the two, to some extent. People who exercise spiritual gifts don't always live morally perfect, as the example of the church in Corinth shows us.

I've also encountered a lot of people who were more of a cessationist mindset who didn't seem to be all that spiritual either in their lifestyle. I won't name the denomination, but where I went to college, you could ask a lot of drunk people coming out of bars what denomination they belonged to or what church they went to, and it would likely be one that wasn't known for being too friendly to gifts of the Spirit.

I think you've got a bit of prejudice. Maybe you can expand your circle of acquaintances there to get a broader view of reality.

 

[presidente]

I have some questions. To preface, I've never in my life attended a church where there was jumping up and down and dancing, people smacked on the head, rolling on the floor and convulsing, babbling, barking like dogs or in group paroxysms of laughter.

The Psalms talk about rejoicing before the Lord and dancing. Some Pentecostals and Charismatics incorporate that into their church services because it is in the Bible. My guess would be that most Pentecostal and Charismatic churches don't have anyone dancing during the praise songs, if you go there on Sunday morning, and if they do, it would be scarcely noticeable, kind of like swaying back and forth. Culturally, Pentecostalism was birthed out of an interractial revival, too. You may also notice that some predominantly black choirs in Baptist churches may sway or dance a bit together as they sing.


If you randomly picked a church out of the phone book that believed in the operation of the Biblical spiritual gifts, and you went there, you probably wouldn't see anyone convulsing or barking like a dog, or laughing unless a preacher said something funny during a sermon.

I heard Dr. Michael Brown on a recorded radio broadcast online the other day. He said he'd heard cessationists talk about barking like a dog. He said in all his years (decades, I forget how long) in the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement, he'd never witnessed that. He asked the general overseer of the A/G denomination, the largest Pentecostal denomination, and he hadn't ever witnessed that either. Neither have I. I've never seen anyone ever barking like a dog in church that I recall. But if someone has, it's most likely a kid in the nursery when they go to pick the children up after church.

Peter and Paul spoke in tongues. Someone else claims to speak in tongues and barked like a dog (allegedly, even though there isn't any evidence for this). So since they all spoke in tongues, does that make Peter and Paul bad? Does that mean they barked like a dog?

The fact is, the Bible teaches that these gifts are given as the Spirit wills. That's the doctrinal teaching of scripture on the matter. I suppose I could pick some crazy quote that someone from Westboro Baptist said and draw a bunch of conclusions about how bad Baptists are, and how bad Calvinists are since Westboro Baptist is a Baptist church that believes in Calvinism.

I guess I could just write off anything a Baptist says as wrong because Westboro Baptist is Baptist. The folks at that church probably believe a lot of basic Christian doctrine that most of us agree with about the divinity of Christ, the atonement, and hundreds of other things. Should I refuse to believe the Biblical doctrines they happen to agree with because they protest funerals?

Why is one congregation saying it has something special of the Holy Spirit other churches don't? Why are they special to God? Also, I've not seen proof of babbling in the Bible. Just asking, as it makes no sense to me the Holy Spirt is a respecter of persons and manifest radically different between churches.

The gifts are given as the Spirit wills, and if I get one gift and another believer gets another, I don't have a right to call the Spirit a respecter of persons.

But we also read, "Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things. Hold fast to that which is good." Another translations says "Do not put out the Spirit's fire."

I don't this unreasonable to infer from that passage in I Thessalonians 5 that Paul is indicating that if the church despises prophesyings, that it might quench the Spirit. If prophesying and other gifts of the Spirit are met with contempt in a certain church, it's not unreasonable to think that we might not see much of that gift in that church. Jesus did not do many mighty miracles in Nazareth when He went to Nazareth because of their unbelief. That seems to be the way the Lord works.

So I'd expect to see more of a certain gift in a church that actually prayed for it and desired it than in a church that either did not pray for it, or outright despised it.

Regarding church gatherings, the Lord commanded through Paul, "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge." If a church does not do that and insists on following a liturgy and having only a pastor speak, might that not be despising prophesying?

The 'decently and in order' is the Lord's order, not our modern church order. It is an order in which 'every one of you' may have a psalm, doctrine, tongue, revelation or interpretation 'unto edifying.' It is an order that allows one to speak in tongues and one to interpret. It is an order in which the prophets are allowed to speak two or three and the other judge. It is an order in which the prophet holds his peace for another sitting by who receives a revelation. It is also an order that says 'for ye may all prophesy one by one.' It's an order that is very pro-gifts. That's the context in which 'Let everything be done decently and in order' is written.

 

[Ella85]

What is funny is the fact that the only church who had an issue with this and of the which it is even mentioned to is the childish, immature Corinthian church which had some 16 particular things wrong with it....in essence people who push this, believe this and practice this say to the world they are immature babes in Christ...Paul in the very verses that YOU twist states that they are childish things that were put away when he became an adult....and that he would rather speak 5 words that can be understood than 10000 words of some mumbo jumbo that did not mean a thing.....You say you promote scripture right...how do you deal with the fact that most of the time it is women doing this and the bible tells women to keep silent in church and to not usurp authority over a man to teach in the assembly??????????? Let me guess.....I bet you don't keep silent do you?

Amen!!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't shout out in tongues for the congregation to hear, if it is me speaking to God. It isn't for them. It's for me. But I am not silent, either. Most of my speaking in tongues is done privately and when I am laying hands on someone. Holy Spirit's doing the talking.


As for your remark about women, that comes from a place of misunderstanding of Paul and scripture. The only time I have to be silent is alongside men and children when we are learning the word of God together in the church setting.

Show me where the bible tells women to LAY HANDS on SOMEONE.......and there is no misunderstanding on my part.......!

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Definitely. At least in the 1980's in Pentecostal churches, it happened quite often that someone would speak in tongues and someone else would interpret. When I was a teenager, I was active in the Assemblies of God denomination. I know that some of the Bible colleges were careful to teach that speaking in tongues was to be followed by an interpretation. I went to three A/G's, one for a short period of time. It sure seemed to me that it was generally accepted in A/G churches that tongues were to be interpreted. I never saw everyone speaking in tongues at the same time or the congregation being asked to speak in tongues.

I would think I've heard hundreds of messages in tongues an interpretations. It kind of happens like prophecies do in A/G and other Pentecostal churches. Either at a kind of lull in the song service, or just everything goes quiet and someone prophesies or someone speaks in tongues and interprets.

I believe there may be some Pentecostal churches among country southern folk from more Wesleyan Holiness side of the movement where people would pray in tongues at the same time. Some of the Charismatics encourage speaking or singing in tongues en masse. Benny Hinn tells everyone to speak in tongues.

But the A/G is the largest Pentecostal denomination. It's kind of a 'big tent' denomination with congregations having local autonomy, but ministerial ordination through the denomination with denominational Bible schools. So I suppose an individual congregation could have everyone speaking in tongues at the same time.

Preachers from the Word of Faith movement, a subset of the Charismatic movement, have been very successful in getting airtime on TV. Maybe some of them have left the impression that people who speak in tongues just do so all at the same time without an interpreter.

I know a couple of people who said they'd gotten interpretations of tongues and someone else gave the same interpretation before they could. One was a kid in middle school who went to the same church and Christian school I went to. Another was my college roommate. Of course, that sort of thing happens with prophecies. I've gotten words of knowledge only to hear someone else prophesy them as a part of a prophecy before I could share them. Or part of it would be shared in the prophecy.

It's also pretty cool when either a word of knowledge prophecy or an interpretation of tongue tells you what you were thinking or something specific about yourself or what you are going through. I've been on both ends of that

I was raised AOG after we left the Baptists. The AOG started the nonsense that the "initial" evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was speaking in tongues. They also started the foolishness that you had to have this also to be saved.

Both are false.

Acts 1.8 said when the spirit comes upon you it is for the "power" to witness.

There is a splinter group of the WOF movement that now teaches that tongues and interpretation is better[safer] than prophecy, which is clearly against what the Bible says and because of that it is ok to have more than 2-3 tongues in a service. Also clearly agaisnt what the Bible says.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

What fruits of the "Spirit" do you display? love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,gentleness and self-control?

Fruit of the Spirit works within and is for character.

Power of the Spirit works upon and is for service/witness.

Would you agree?

 

[Edwin]

By the way I can explain what is the purpose of tongues by scripture. How many functions of tongues in scripture. Why paul talks about tongues. But this I will do if asked because it is controversial, the most important thing is love.

 

[notuptome]

OK, let's keep this simple, shall we? You say these gifts ceased in 70 AD. Prove it..... put up or shut up.

You are certainly proof enough but God said when the perfect was come tongues would end. The perfect is the completion of Gods word the bible. The completion of the NT took that which was in part and completed the perfect word of God.

One only need examine how tongues are currently abused by the Gentiles in the church to understand that they are nothing like what the apostolic church had.

When you argue with God you always lose. You make all kinds of false accusations but you know that tongues will not reappear until the tribulation when they will be a sign for Israel. I did not say they ceased in 70AD I just said that God said they would cease when the perfect was come. The completion of that which was only till then in part. The NT completed the OT.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I understand just fine which is why I posted the true definition of those Greek words, and they both mean to be dipped and immersed. Bapto though is in reference to that of like being dyed a color, and Babtizo is in reference to being immersed in water. Babtizo is what is used in Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 which is where it is commanded by the Lord.

Those two verses are not referring to Holy Spirit baptism but by being water immersed in Jesus name. Apostle Peter uses this same baptizo in Acts 2:38 and shows how this baptism by water is done here before the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

Baptizo is to submerge like a ship. If you submerge one into water like a sunken ship they will die for lack of oxygen. The application is to submerge them into the Holy Spirit or to submerge them into the doctrine of Christ as in Mat 28.

You demonstrate knowledge but lack understanding. Well at least you can use a concordance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Man, I know a lot of the gifts are faked, but I would think LONG AND HARD before I would deny them all outright.

What part of only three have ended do you not understand? You must go out of your way to create the impression that because three sign gifts have ended that all have ended. I winder who is being less than truthful?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

In order for cessationism to be true, we must be in the millennial reign of Christ, about 1,930 years past it to be exact. During this time we have:

The RCC, supposedly the "true church" that kills everyone that doesn't agree with them..... for centuries.
The crusades..... where exactly was Jesus reigning at the time?
WWI, WWII, all the wars between England & France, or was it Spain? So many wars, so little reigning.
Man-made epidemics, the black plague, & other viral atrocities..... why wasn't it stopped?

Saying this time is the millennial reign of Christ is absolute heresy, blasphemous, & a slap in the face to Jesus' name & reputation..... but the cessationists don't care, as long as they're right. They will continue to argue till Jesus comes..... oh, wait, they have maybe seven more years to argue after the rapture, too.

Let me use a simple phrase you can understand. That is absurd. Joel clearly places the return of signs to Israel in the tribulation period.

You love to make false claims about what the other must believe in order to create some kind of credibility to your argument. I just hope you don't lose your salvation over this.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[FancyNancy]

Show me where the bible tells women to LAY HANDS on SOMEONE.......and there is no misunderstanding on my part.......!

Where does it say in any of scripture that the work of being a disciple of Jesus means that women are exempt? Get real.

Mark 16:17-18
These miraculous signs will accompany those who believe: They will cast out demons in my name, and they will speak in new languages. [SUP]18 [/SUP]They will be able to handle snakes with safety, and if they drink anything poisonous, it won’t hurt them. They will be able to place their hands on the sick, and they will be healed.”


I don't see any restriction, do you? A believer is a believer. Be elucidated.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Let me use a simple phrase you can understand. That is absurd. Joel clearly places the return of signs to Israel in the tribulation period.

You love to make false claims about what the other must believe in order to create some kind of credibility to your argument. I just hope you don't lose your salvation over this.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

you can lose your salvation!?!?

 

[FancyNancy]

You are certainly proof enough but God said when the perfect was come tongues would end. The perfect is the completion of Gods word the bible. The completion of the NT took that which was in part and completed the perfect word of God.

One only need examine how tongues are currently abused by the Gentiles in the church to understand that they are nothing like what the apostolic church had.

When you argue with God you always lose. You make all kinds of false accusations but you know that tongues will not reappear until the tribulation when they will be a sign for Israel. I did not say they ceased in 70AD I just said that God said they would cease when the perfect was come. The completion of that which was only till then in part. The NT completed the OT.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Lose? You've already lost out on much blessing and usefulness by denying what Jesus has made clearly available to His Church, which he is still building until He comes for her.

Where does it say in scripture that tongues will disappear and then reappear? The Holy Spirit will be active during the Tribulation except to moce the hearts of Jews toward their Messiah, and working through the 2 witnesses and the 144,000.

The gifts will cease when Jesus comes, because He is the perfect who will come. We won't need the gifts as we will be with Him, glorified already.