Gifts - Tongues and the Interpretation of Tongues

[dcontroversal]

Come on Dcon.........

The passage in Acts 28:3-5 is clearly showing that a disciple of Christ will be protected from harm like that if they completely trust in the faith. This goes hand in hand with what the Lord said in Mark 9:23;

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

I am not saying believers should be going around just doing snake handling as some churches have done, which is the wrong premise on how to take those passages. But we can not take away from the word of God that He will protect us through harmful times and from harmful things when it suits His will.

Kenneth...you come on...LINE THAT IS....Acts 28 was applicable unto an APOSTLE who had a mission and was SENT BY GOD with specific purpose.....Paul went through numerous life threatening experiences because his time was not YET...there is NO generalization of protection found in Acts 28 for anyone other than Paul.....if that was the case then ALL of the FAITHFUL brethren who were killed by LIONS and wild beasts in the CIRCUS under NERO would have never happened......get over it..there are certain events where the children of God were spared death, but over all that PROMISE is not found in the scriptures extended unto every faithful believer...as a matter fact the exact opposite is true......

 

[kennethcadwell]

For those who deny the authenticity of Mark 16v9-20, you might want to have a look at This ...

Yahweh Shalom

I don't deny that passage as others do just to up and do away with it, as other scriptures can be used to parallel it, but it was added on;

The Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus said to be the oldest known Greek manuscripts known to man to have this chapter in it both stop at verse 8 and does not contain the rest of the chapter.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Kenneth...you come on...LINE THAT IS....Acts 28 was applicable unto an APOSTLE who had a mission and was SENT BY GOD with specific purpose.....Paul went through numerous life threatening experiences because his time was not YET...there is NO generalization of protection found in Acts 28 for anyone other than Paul.....if that was the case then ALL of the FAITHFUL brethren who were killed by LIONS and wild beasts in the CIRCUS under NERO would have never happened......get over it..there are certain events where the children of God were spared death, but over all that PROMISE is not found in the scriptures extended unto every faithful believer...as a matter fact the exact opposite is true......

Did you not read the last part of what I said;

I am not saying believers should be going around just doing snake handling as some churches have done, which is the wrong premise on how to take those passages. But we can not take away from the word of God that He will protect us through harmful times and from harmful things when it suits His will.


Then I still though have another question for you, do you deny that all things are possible for us who believe to be able to do them ??? Do you deny that scripture by Jesus or do you believe that if you set your mind and heart on something and your faith is fully in Christ then you will be able to do it ???

 

[notuptome]

This was in reference of saying one can not lose salvation, so it goes exactly with what was put forth......

Who is the only one that can destroy the soul, and how is this done ?

Continue in self righteousness and deny the sufficiency of the grace of God. Make the blood of Jesus of no effect by adding conditions and works to salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

Continue in self righteousness and deny the sufficiency of the grace of God. Make the blood of Jesus of no effect by adding conditions and works to salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Continue to avoid answering the question and coming back with false allegations all you want as that shows your true colors...

 

[notuptome]

Continue to avoid answering the question and coming back with false allegations all you want as that shows your true colors...

Oh man you got me. Nobody is a good as you. You completely missed what I said but I really don't believe you want to know. The preaching of the cross is foolishness to them that perish.

You just cannot tolerate the total sufficiency of Gods grace to save men from their sins. To keep them sealed unto the day of redemption. All that just irritates you doesn't it? Takes you out of the equation and leaves only God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Stephen63]

Let me use a simple phrase you can understand. That is absurd. Joel clearly places the return of signs to Israel in the tribulation period.

You love to make false claims about what the other must believe in order to create some kind of credibility to your argument. I just hope you don't lose your salvation over this.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Oooooook, now I'm making false claims. I noticed there were no verses quoted to back your "theory".

Now you have two things to prove. Give the standard beliefs of cessationism to prove I'm making false claims. I know I can back up mine..... I've researched it.

BTW, why would you make a statement about losing my salvation if you don't believe you can? Just wondering.....

 

[RickyZ]

What part of only three have ended do you not understand?

Hey Rog! Good to see ya again. Sure, I'll give it to you that you think only the three have ceased. Most seem to think it's all or nothing, that's what/who I was more addressing. But thanks for pointing that out. You are different in that you believe it's only a partial cessation.

I would argue here that it's not, but I won't because... well, to quote an old friend...

You just are not going to get it because you refuse to hear it.

OK, let's keep this simple, shall we? You say these gifts ceased in 70 AD. Prove it..... put up or shut up.

Does not this kind of intercourse, so prevalent even here among the body, prove that the perfection that causes the gifts to cease hasn't come?

If you think this is perfect, you have nooo idea of the world to come. May the Lord so enlighten you.

 

[FancyNancy]

To continually avoid what is said is not wise. To change what someone has said is less than honest. Out of the mouth come the issues of the heart.

You just are not going to get it because you refuse to hear it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Honey, I got it LONG ago, praise the Lord Jesus Christ! You've stopped up your spiritual ears. That's a problem for you.

 

[FancyNancy]

The natural man cannot and will not understand the things of the spirit because they are spiritually discerned. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. The only true way to understand scripture is with the mind of Christ which we have as born again believers. The Holy Spirit can reveal the deep things of God so that we will not have any doubts concerning His word because the Holy Spirit is the one that inspired it. The spiritual gifts are still in operation today and one thing I know that if you do not believe you get what you receive. The coming revival is the revival of the truth of doctrine that is in scripture.

 

[FancyNancy]

I've been to some churches around here that do this tongue thing and its always gibberish and nobody inteprets. I think these poor people do it to impress the pastor. This same pastor dunked a kid under water 5 times til the kid wisened up and just started gibbering. I asked later what it was like. He told me he did it so he wouldn't be dunked again!

I don't believe your story.

 

[FancyNancy]

This is history as well as current events. Watched any news lately?

What did Jesus say about that? What are you supposed to do when these things begin to happen?

Sorry scripture says signs are for Israel and Gentiles seek after wisdom.

Signs are primarily fort Israel, but they are BLINDED. God is kind in opening up His secrets to the Gentile world. We see the signs.

The church never takes the place of Israel. The prophesies are to Israel not to the church. The church is receiving the blessing intended for Israel but the church has not replaced Israel in Gods prophesies. The tribulation is an event for Israel not the church.

No one has said that Israel has been replaced..at least not anyone here that I have read. Yes, I know that the Tribulation is primarily for God to finish up with Israel, for in the end, all Israel will be saved.

Which we do from the bible.

I sure hope you do!

 

[FancyNancy]

What natural man would't want these gifts? I would LOVE to have them. The natural man wouldn't want these gifts to stop,and the natural man could never come to a conclusion why some has ceased. Only through the Holy Spirit and the study of the mind of Christ can we come to the conclusion that some have ceased. No man in his flesh would want these gifts to stop at some point.

Nonsense. The natural man has no clue about spiritual things. It is the righteous, who have the mind of Christ and Holy Spirit teaching them who can rightly divide the word of God and who KNOW that no ability that is promised to the Church by God for our use in building up and edifiying the Church will cease until the Church is complete. That day is God's decision, and we will see it complete when Jesus catches us away and we meet Him int he clouds to be whisked away to the wedding of the Lamb. Not one moment before shall one single gift or tool of the Holy Spirit disappear.

 

[FancyNancy]

I'm glad to hear that. Now what? He is wrong about tongues prophesy and knowledge if he teaches they are still active.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Anyone who turns his back on God's word and His offer of special gifts for His Body to employ in the building of the Kingdom is nothing more than a lazy labourer who shirks his duties.

 

[mwc68]

I don't believe your story.

why would i lie? But that is your right. That incident opened my eyes

 

[Stephen63]

First and foremost there Josh...I am a doer of the word, but like I said the last chapter of Mark has been added and I believe Paul's account in 1st Corinthians 13...the words cease, fail and vanish are CLEAR!.....Now since you want to defend your girlfriend...SHOW ME ONE PLACE WHERE A WOMAN LAID HANDS ON ANYONE AND THEY WERE HEALED...as a matter of fact show me TWO witnesses from SCRIPTURE....if it is SO IMPORTANT that WOMEN DO IT or CAN DO IT there will be EXAMPLES....I AM WAITING!

That claim is easy to make for someone who believes... one... has... to... do... absolutely... nothing, nor believe faith without works is dead. James 2:20

Amazing, isn't it? They live with this boastful certainty of being "locked in", while scripture says,
Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV) [SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Now, for us who believe this, we're going to believe what God wants us to believe, & do what He wills us to do. You can sit & twiddle your thumbs & keep on believing what you want, because you've been told dozens of times. There will be no blood required at the watchman's hands for not sounding the alarm for you.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

First and foremost there Josh...I am a doer of the word, but like I said the last chapter of Mark has been added and I believe Paul's account in 1st Corinthians 13...the words cease, fail and vanish are CLEAR!.....Now since you want to defend your girlfriend...SHOW ME ONE PLACE WHERE A WOMAN LAID HANDS ON ANYONE AND THEY WERE HEALED...as a matter of fact show me TWO witnesses from SCRIPTURE....if it is SO IMPORTANT that WOMEN DO IT or CAN DO IT there will be EXAMPLES....I AM WAITING!

DC, your a mighty man from MO, show me.

Are you saying your God is not big enough to empty out that hospital or is he? Likewise is he big enough to use a man and woman or both?

This is real show and tell, I cannot show you a single place in the Bible that says what your are asking...

BOOYAH MARINE!your turn!

Is your God big enough to empty out that hospital and is he big enough to use a man and woman or both to empty it?

I am waiting!

 

[presidente]

Jesus was already here so Paul was not referring to Jesus return but the completion of that which was in part which is the NT.

You pretend as if your own knowledge is greater than the authors of the New Testament. The understanding of Paul before perfect came will be like a child's in comparison to his knowledge after the perfect came.

We should look at the rest of the text of I Corinthians to understand the time frame during which prophecy operates, rather than just reading a theory back into I Corinthians 13.

I Corinthians 1:7
"So that ye come behind in no spiritual gift, waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Signs were and are for the Jews not for the Gentiles. A sign of impending judgment.

When you brought this up in a previous conversation, the Bible shows that signs were for Gentiles, too.

Acts 15
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. (ESV)

The Jews required a sign. But that was what they wanted. The Bible shows that God showed many signs to Gentiles as well. Many of the things Moses did in Egypt allowed the Egyptians, to know that He is the LORD. It's also likely that Sergius Paulus was a Gentile. He converted after hearing the Gospel and seeing the blinding of Elymas.

Joel prophesied that they will return along with the signs in the heavens prior to Christ returning to save Israel from destruction.

You have no scriptural justification for creating two 'last days' time periods. Peter's inspired interpretation of Joel shows that Acts 2's events occurred in 'the last days.' He didn't say there were two last days, or that the last days would stop and restart-- which is kind of nonsensical if you think about it.

Jesus is building His church through the foolishness of the preaching of the cross.

That's true. But in the next very chapter, in I Corinthians 2:4, Paul tells us,
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

You create this false dichotomy between preaching the cross and spiritual gifts. Paul preached with the demonstration of the Spirit and of power. He wrote the Romans that with signs and wonders, from Jerusalem round about unto Illyricum, he had fully preached the Gospel of Christ.

Show me where the Bible teaches we are to live in a time now where there is preaching and none of these supernatural demonstration of the Spirit's power? Why does the picture of what Christianity should be like that you seem to have in your mind differ from the picture we see in the Bible?

 

[presidente]

I was raised AOG after we left the Baptists. The AOG started the nonsense that the "initial" evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was speaking in tongues. They also started the foolishness that you had to have this also to be saved.

Both are false.

I don't believe in the 'initial evidence doctrine'. Sure, people can be empowered by the Spirit and speak in tongues, but if one doesn't speak in tongues, I don't believe that someone is not necessarily filled or baptized with the Holy Spirit.

But the A/G does not teach that if you haven't spoken in tongues, you aren't saved. Back when the denomination was founded, it was a loose affiliation and many participants did not believe in having a doctrinal statement besides the Bible, but some preachers started the Oneness movement, and were a part of the A/G, so they did come up with a doctrinal statement that excluded Oneness beliefs and the Oneness split off from the A/G several years into it's founding. In the Oneness movement, there are those who believe if you haven't spoken in tongues, that you aren't saved. I'm not sure the exact year, but I'm pretty sure it has been over 80 or 90 years, so unless you are super old, you probably haven't heard an A/G preacher say that if you don't speak in tongues you aren't saved, since that is against A/G doctrine.

 

[jb]

I don't deny that passage..

Sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate that you denied the genuineness of Mark 16v9-20, I was just using your post to link to an article which establishes its authenticity...

Yahweh Shalom