Pope Says Having A Personal Relationship With Jesus Is Dangerous And Harmful

maxwel · Sep 17, 2015

More:

The Pope, in this article, is intentionally mixing two different things together, to intentionally confuse, and make this issue of "mediation" seem more palatable.
A. There is the issue of needing the community of believers to "grow" and "develop" as a Christian... this IS biblical.
B. There is the issue of needing the Roman Catholic Church to MEDIATE on our behalf, with Christ... which is completely unbilical.

By mixing apples and oranges together, he can confuse these two issues, so we fail to draw the correct distinction.

If we are confused by this rhetoric, we walk away, scratching our heads, and going, "Yeah, I guess that sounds okay."
It's intentional confusion of two distinct issues.

It is intentional obfuscation...
much like politicians do on a daily basis.

No one, on this planet, needs anyone to mediate between them and Christ.
That is completely unbiblical.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 17, 2015

onlinebuddy said:

if this is whayt he is saying, then he is off base, and wrong.

We are to disciple and teach and serve each other, Not force our beliefs on people and say listen to us or else..

I never claimed the roman church was where we should be, I was just agreeing that we need to be in a body and not lone warriers.

Jackson123 · Sep 17, 2015

Pope said having personal relation with Jesus is danger, and give a reason

Jesus said having personal relation/bide in Him is the saver thing to do and give a reason.

It mean Pope is covertly anti Jesus teaching

> It mean Pope is Antichrist.

phil112 · Sep 17, 2015

onlinebuddy said:

Don't misunderstand my posts by assuming something I don't say. What the pope says affects all of us, in some way, simply because of the many followers he has. I questioned why people listen to him. That isn't even close to saying people aren't, or can't be, affected by him. My best friend that died in a motorcycle accident a few years ago was catholic. He was raised catholic and never for a second entertained the thought of leaving. His older brother, of whom I am close friends today, and I, have had many conversations about catholicism and I do not mince words with him. So much so that he tells me I should convert to it as I would make a good one - a compliment to my strong oratory, no doubt.

As for what I highlighted, you are correct. So many people don't read, or understand what they read, and it hurts them. Altho we are encouraged to fellowship, it absolutely does not mean to fellowship with those that worship in a false doctrine. Those people worship Him with their lips, but their heart is far from Him.
If you can't worship with true believers, worship alone. "yea, let God be true, tho every man a liar".
A good part of the time serving God is lonely. He said He has a peculiar people. Look up the definition of "peculiar".

ThomistColin · Sep 17, 2015

onlinebuddy said:

You need to read your sources better. That was from the Satirical Online Newspaper National Report. Keyword here is satire. Its a fake new report.

ThomistColin · Sep 17, 2015

Wow you guys latch onto a single word and twist it into the "one Mediator between God and man" debate?

I'm sorry. Stop and think for a moment. Are you now saying that if I say that the debate last night required the mediation of the CNN reporter, am I now saying that in order for the debate to happen the CNN reporter had to mediate between man and God?

Seriously, you feed each other such lies and then accuse us of lying or twisting things. We are nothing outside of the Church. If you accept Christ and deny your brother...do you honestly think Christ will acknowledge you before His Father? The Church is the Body of Christ. God chose it to be the "pillar and foundation of truth" a passage of Scripture often overlooked or outright denied. You can be angry about all the doctrines of the Catholic Church, but I don't see anything in what the Pope said as wrong or offensive. The only people are are meant to be offended are those who DO NOT fellowship, but instead sit at home and watch youtube videos and claim to be part of the Body of Christ.

GuessWho · Sep 17, 2015

onlinebuddy said:

. I am sorry then. I am, however, glad that at least two people understood my posts. It is disarming when you write long posts and...in vain. So, if two people understood me, I am happy with myself.

onlinebuddy said:

In my opinion we should separate the message from the messenger. I don't need to search for who said what in order to agree or disagree with something. That seems unfair and biased. If you, for instance, say something, I don't go and "check" you. I agree or disagree with you based on what you say, not on who you are.

onlinebuddy said:

I don't know about that phrase in bold. Could you give an example where he says that?

onlinebuddy said:

All I read was him talking about the importance of the Church. Obviously he was talking about the Catholic Church. He wouldn't have any coherence if he was talking about the Lutheran Church.

I know that the Catholics have put a big emphasis on the organisation of the Church, while the Protestants on the authority of the Bible.

Each one tried to find an "objective" authority, one in the Church, the other one in Sola Scriptura. Both failed.

Ahwatukee · Sep 17, 2015

ThomistColin,

There is no delicate way to put this, so I'm just going say it and I say it in the spirit of the love Christ. Roman Catholicism is pagan through and through. It is a counterfeit of the true church. It is paganism wearing Christian clothing and anyone who adheres to and engages with her in her spiritual adultery (her practices and beliefs) will suffer with her. However, regardless of her state, God still has people that he has chosen who have aligned themselves with her and he is calling them out:

"Come out of her, my people,’so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes."

Rome with her pagan system is Mystery Babylon, the woman who rides the beast and she will be playing a big part in that last day kingdom and her pope as the false prophet to the beast.

The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet:

She was glittering with gold:

* The seven heads you saw are seven hills upon which the woman sits.

Rome is that city with her pagan system that was built on and is famous for her seven hills.

* The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth.

Roman Catholicism is in no way the church of Christ. Everything about it is pagan, from the Egyptian obelisk that sits out in the middle of St. Peter's square, to Mary worship, to the sacraments, to the Eucharist and too many more to go into detail about on this post.

If you are truly concerned about forgiveness of sins and eternal life, you need to be honest with yourself and take a deep, hard, look at the teachings of the RCC. Just the things that I briefly mentioned about above disqualify her as being the true church. I say to you the same thing that God is saying, come out of her!

ThomistColin · Sep 17, 2015

Ahwatukee said:

Except the Vatican isn't within the Rome of Seven Hills. Wrong side of the Tiber River. You know what city stands directly in the middle of 7 hills, Mecca. Mecca's Kaabah is draped in Crimson and Scarlet. Its surrounded by gold and the city glitters with gold.

The Whore who Rides the Beast is Mecca.

But that isn't the point. The point is the amazing twisting of words to create a sensationlist thread.

crossnote · Sep 17, 2015

ThomistColin said:

By 'mediator' I mean a go between or middleman. According to your own encyclopedia of vicar, which the pope claims to be it sounds awfully close to a middleman.

New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia...VICAR

"A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: "Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep" (John 21:16-17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matthew 16:18-19.
In the course of the ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. "Quanto", 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ."

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Vicar of Christ

Yeraza_Bats · Sep 18, 2015

ThomistColin said:

The bible actually tells you that its the religious city in the desert by the red sea, and that when it is destroyed, the Arabs will no longer pitch a tent there, and that God will stretch His hand from Dedan to Tenam. Those are all references of Mecca yeah

onlinebuddy · Sep 18, 2015

ThomistColin said:

Pope Francis To Followers: "Koran And Holy Bible Are The Same" | National Report

Yes, you're right. I didn't realize that it was a satirical publication.

I am still wondering if the Pope's calling is to be an ambassador of peace. Jesus never was and ambassador of peace. (correct me if I'm wrong) Furthermore, being a prominent figure, the Pope should not leave any ambiguity in his speech. Saying that a "personal relationship" with Jesus is "dangerous"...., irrespective of the intended context or connotation, is not appropriate. It's a very negative way of putting one's message across. It can (and has) hurt the sentiments of millions of Christians/ believers whose only hope in this world is their personal relationship with Christ.

GuessWho · Sep 18, 2015

onlinebuddy said:

Are you for real?

Now I can see why we didn't understand each other.

onlinebuddy · Sep 18, 2015

Then I'm happy for you

I disagree!!!
There is a big difference between a cc member and "the" Pope. A cc member such as myself does not claim to have arrived. I am just debating the Pope's words, and would be more than happy if he is proved right, and I am proved wrong. I am just doing what the Bible is telling me to do.

Here's the phrase that you highlighted in bold: (The Pope) ...does not acknowledge a believer who does not belong to the RCC.
Ask any non-Catholic Christian if their children are accepted in Catholic schools without making a fuss that, "Are you Catholic?".
If you are married outside the Catholic church in a Bible-believing (and practicing) Church, does the Catholic Church accept the authenticity and the sacredness of your marriage? Would they baptize your children? The answer to both questions is "No." They would first tell you to "regularize" your marriage in the RCC to make it valid. All this, because the RCC is supposed to be the one and only true church on earth....No other church has any authority. The catholic church does not always say this overtly, but it is obvious from its actions.

Because he does not consider any other church valid. CC members who have catholic friends and relatives know what I'm talking about.

I have mentioned this earlier, and would take the trouble to mention it again: Not all Non-Catholics are Protestants. This is a classic catholic view that all non-catholics are Protestants.
If emphasis is placed on the scripture, it will obviously be placed on the importance of the church as well. Emphasis on one leads to the other. If not, something is amiss.

phil112 · Sep 18, 2015

GuessWho said:

Without going back and reading all the posts, which I know can be a "not good" thing if I miss context, I'll agree on the surface with Buddy. Christ was here only to give man salvation, to be an ambassador of His Father.
Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Xis · Sep 18, 2015

Wow. I'm not sure where to start because I'm a bit dumbfounded.

Jesus is the Prince of Peace. Yes, he brought a sword, but it is for dividing those that want to love or hate (or perhaps those that want the truth, and those that want to settle for a half-truth). I'm open to correction on this, because I'm just rolling off of the top of my head. In any case, I do believe that Jesus' message is that we can have peace even when there is hatred and unrest around us. I can only reference the beatitudes here.

The pope's words are notoriously deceptive due to the selective reporting and deceptive interpretations and insinuations attached to his words. I can't imagine that any Christian (or anybody else) would be scandalized by a message of peace. The only thing that comes to mind is this:

Luk_7:32 They are like to children sitting in the marketplace and speaking one to another and saying: We have piped to you, and you have not danced: we have mourned, and you have not wept.

Let's try to lose our bias and judge righteously.

Xis

onlinebuddy · Sep 18, 2015

GuessWho said:

Please allow me to rephrase...

What I had said earlier: JI am still wondering if the Pope's calling is to be an ambassador of peace. Jesus never was and ambassador of peace. (correct me if I'm wrong)

What i meant: is that communal harmony or peace between two religious communities should not be the purpose of a church leader.

Jesus was an ambassador of the truth. (In fact he WAS the truth.)
Jesus knew that the result of proclaiming the truth would be a "sword," and not peace.
Peace must not be achieved at the cost of truth.
No Christian leader must put more efforts towards world peace, or peace between two religious communities more than efforts to proclaim the truth (i.e. Jesus).

The essence of that particular post of mine was that:
The Pope should not leave any ambiguity in his words, bcoz he would be hurting the sentiments of many people.
Also, he should not use words such as, "personal relationship with Jesus Christ."
Let me add, that using these words was a direct attack on evangelicals, born-again Christians, etc.,

GuessWho · Sep 18, 2015

Jesus Christ commanded us to live in peace with everyone and to live holy lives. Without these two, no one will see God.

(Hebrews 12:14)

I don't believe his words were an attack to evangelicals and born-again christians. I don't believe it was an attack at all.

Maybe you read too much into it because all of these supposed meanings are just in your imagination.

There are parts on this world where christians are still being persecuted and killed for being christians. I don't understand why wouldn't someone want that there be peace between different religions?

Jackson123 · Sep 18, 2015

ThomistColin said:

There is no such thing.

Except Christ mean except brother in Christ.

If a man say except Christ and not love his brother he is Lie.

it mean to say except Christ is danger is lie.

Except Christ is the saver can be.

Except the church not necessary save. Depend on what kind of church.

but except real Christ is always save.

Bible say if a man except Him will be save.

Pope is anti bible.

MikeHenderson · Sep 18, 2015

The question is ,"which Church was Pope Francis referring to?"

Pope Francis was referring to the Corrupted Catholic Church. We do not need communion with and the mediation of the Corrupted Catholic Church.

There are many True Christian Churches in the World and we do not need a Mary Worshiping Pope Francis telling us we need the Corrupted Catholic Church.

How can the Catholic Church be the True Church when it teaches the Muslims are our Brothers in Christ?

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator.******* In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.****** Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128)

Muslims do not hold the Faith of Abraham because they deny that Jesus Christ is God! They Worship and follow Allah instead. So why do we need to listen to anything the Corrupted Pope Francis says? Pope Francis is a Wolf in sheep clothing.

Matthew 7:15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You will know them by their fruits.

Pope Says Having A Personal Relationship With Jesus Is Dangerous And Harmful

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