Is the Old Testament the Old Law? Should we Follow it?

[Yahshua]

I am still not comfortable with it. Will need to see where your headed.

To me, the penalty of sin is death. So we should keep the penalty as to what it is..

Yes it sounds harsh that you went a few MPH over the speed limit and you get the death penalty. but in the reality of things, that is the fact of eternity.

Ok.

---Scene 2---

I go to court and confess to the judge that I was speeding, but then say I can't pay the fine. To pay with my life is too high of a price; can't afford it. So I beg for forgiveness.


My attorney (the judge's son), having compassion on me, pays the amount I owe (he dies and resurrects).

I say, "thank you for saving me from the judgement!!" There was nothing I could do to pay my ticket and avoid judgment. I was completely at the mercy of the judge and without the compassion of my attorney I would've faced that judgment. He alone paid the price for me and the judge declared me right(eous) again in the eyes of the speeding law. The law has been satisfied by my attorney so that my record is clean. I am justified; no longer guilty.

[^The proper context of Galatians 2:21 & Ephesians 2:8: "salvation from Christ alone who paid my price. I am justified, not of my effort or any work of the law I could do."]

Is this better eternally-gratefull?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok.

---Scene 2---

I go to court and confess to the judge that I was speeding, but then say I can't pay the fine. To pay with my life is too high of a price; can't afford it. So I beg for forgiveness.


My attorney (the judge's son), having compassion on me, pays the amount I owe (he dies and resurrects).

I say, "thank you for saving me from the judgement!!" There was nothing I could do to pay my ticket and avoid judgment. I was completely at the mercy of the judge and without the compassion of my attorney I would've faced that judgment. He alone paid the price for me and the judge declared me right(eous) again in the eyes of the speeding law. The law has been satisfied by my attorney so that my record is clean. I am justified; no longer guilty.

[^The proper context of Galatians 2:21 & Ephesians 2:8: "salvation from Christ alone who paid my price. I am justified, not of my effort or any work of the law I could do."]

Is this better eternally-gratefull?

ok. so far so good.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Ok.

---Scene 2---

I go to court and confess to the judge that I was speeding, but then say I can't pay the fine. To pay with my life is too high of a price; can't afford it. So I beg for forgiveness.


My attorney (the judge's son), having compassion on me, pays the amount I owe (he dies and resurrects).

I say, "thank you for saving me from the judgement!!" There was nothing I could do to pay my ticket and avoid judgment. I was completely at the mercy of the judge and without the compassion of my attorney I would've faced that judgment. He alone paid the price for me and the judge declared me right(eous) again in the eyes of the speeding law. The law has been satisfied by my attorney so that my record is clean. I am justified; no longer guilty.

[^The proper context of Galatians 2:21 & Ephesians 2:8: "salvation from Christ alone who paid my price. I am justified, not of my effort or any work of the law I could do."]

Is this better eternally-gratefull?

This whole scenario is accurate. We don't even appear in court. If we appeared in court we would be convicted. But we partake of a judgment already made. By faith that judgment is applied to us (death), and by faith we receive the life of the one who was raised from the dead. Since he has a spotless record, we now have a spotless record.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This whole scenario is accurate. We don't even appear in court. If we appeared in court we would be convicted. But we partake of a judgment already made. By faith that judgment is applied to us (death), and by faith we receive the life of the one who was raised from the dead. Since he has a spotless record, we now have a spotless record.

I meant INaccurate.

 

[Yahshua]

ok. so far so good.

Ok. I just want to reemphasize that in the last scene there was confession, request for forgiveness, and a trust/faith in the attorney's work to pay my penalty which I couldn't affect on my own. Also I want to point out that in the scene **the Judge declared me right(eous) in the eyes of the law** afterwards.

Let's call my name Noah (or Abraham) for now, just to tie in your question regarding those two...because scene 2 just showed that my declaration of righteousness by the judge is separate from the law I could follow.

Now we get to scene 3...

 

[Yahshua]

I meant INaccurate.

Well then I'm taking back my like! lol

 

[Yahshua]

Ok...

---Scene 3---

Now before I leave my attorney tells me "go and speed no more". The judge then adds, "My son is also a driving instructor and I'm making him available to you. He'll be with you to teach you how to properly obey the driving law so that you speed no more."

I leave the court side by side with my attorney who's now my driving instructor, free and clear from the judgment. He and I approach my car, with me - once again - right(eous) in the law's eye; made just(ified) by the attorney's free gift.

[^The proper context of Ezekiel 36:27, Malachi 3:2, John 16:13, Philippians 4:13: "I will put my spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees & laws. He will refine the priests of God so they worship in righteousness. The spirit of truth will guide you. I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength"]


So now I have a choice to make from this point forward:

A) Obey the speed limit to "speed no more" like my attorney says, or
B) Do not obey the speed limit

What about this?

 

[FreeNChrist]

Ok...

---Scene 3---

Now before I leave my attorney tells me "go and speed no more". The judge then adds, "My son is also a driving instructor and I'm making him available to you. He'll be with you to teach you how to properly obey the driving law so that you speed no more."

I leave the court side by side with my attorney who's now my driving instructor, free and clear from the judgment. He and I approach my car, with me - once again - right(eous) in the law's eye; made just(ified) by the attorney's free gift.

[^The proper context of Ezekiel 36:27, Malachi 3:2, John 16:13, Philippians 4:13: "I will put my spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees & laws. He will refine the priests of God so they worship in righteousness. The spirit of truth will guide you. I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength"]


So now I have a choice to make from this point forward:

A) Obey the speed limit to "speed no more" like my attorney says, or
B) Do not obey the speed limit

What about this?

Where's the choice C? Just let Jesus drive.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok...

---Scene 3---

Now before I leave my attorney tells me "go and speed no more". The judge then adds, "My son is also a driving instructor and I'm making him available to you. He'll be with you to teach you how to properly obey the driving law so that you speed no more."

I leave the court side by side with my attorney who's now my driving instructor, free and clear from the judgment. He and I approach my car, with me - once again - right(eous) in the law's eye; made just(ified) by the attorney's free gift.

[^The proper context of Ezekiel 36:27, Malachi 3:2, John 16:13, Philippians 4:13: "I will put my spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees & laws. He will refine the priests of God so they worship in righteousness. The spirit of truth will guide you. I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength"]


So now I have a choice to make from this point forward:

A) Obey the speed limit to "speed no more" like my attorney says, or
B) Do not obey the speed limit

What about this?

Your forgiven no matter what. So your choice is not a choice of do this or else.

the issue now is. Why do you want to sin to begin with? (who are you trying to impress with your self willed neglect of the law?) or (are you just rebelling because)

If on the other hand, You know there are people on the roads beside you, and your speeding puts your life and there's in danger, not to mention the people who may be in the car with you. Then you would never even think of speeding, and would not need instruction

 

[seraphprincess]

Didn't Jesus say that the most important laws were to love the Lord your God with all your soul, mind, heart and strength, and to love your neighbor as you love yourself? No one is perfect, we all slip up some time. But we Christians should all strive to obey god and do what's right. I think we should try to obey the 10 commandments, but think of it, some of those are hard in modern day society.

How many of us have taken the Lord's name is vain? How many of us have used some thing as a graven image? Put something ahead of God in our lives? How many lust in our hearts? How many dishonor our parents by taking advantage and getting money from them we never plan on paying back or treating them like they are imbecile children when we grow up and time goes on and our parents get old? How many of us are rude and mean to our neighbors? How many of us want stuff that is too expensive? Sometimes we get angry with people, really angry, so angry we wish them dead.


These are sins that the 10 commandments basically cover. DO you think you are not guilty? Look again. I am been guilty. I am saved by grace. My favorite gospel song is Amazing Grace. I also like Be Thou My Vision and Joyful Joyful we adore thee.

Christians need to uplift our brothers and sisters when they have a problem with righteousness. Support the weaker Christian who has a problem with sin, instead of shaming or humiliating them. I once had a hypocritical and holier-than thou attiutude, and before God could heal me of my hurting heart and use me for his service.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Didn't Jesus say that the most important laws were to love the Lord your God with all your soul, mind, heart and strength, and to love your neighbor as you love yourself? No one is perfect, we all slip up some time. But we Christians should all strive to obey god and do what's right. I think we should try to obey the 10 commandments, but think of it, some of those are hard in modern day society.

How many of us have taken the Lord's name is vain? How many of us have used some thing as a graven image? Put something ahead of God in our lives? How many lust in our hearts? How many dishonor our parents by taking advantage and getting money from them we never plan on paying back or treating them like they are imbecile children when we grow up and time goes on and our parents get old? How many of us are rude and mean to our neighbors? How many of us want stuff that is too expensive? Sometimes we get angry with people, really angry, so angry we wish them dead.


These are sins that the 10 commandments basically cover. DO you think you are not guilty? Look again. I am been guilty. I am saved by grace. My favorite gospel song is Amazing Grace. I also like Be Thou My Vision and Joyful Joyful we adore thee.

Christians need to uplift our brothers and sisters when they have a problem with righteousness. Support the weaker Christian who has a problem with sin, instead of shaming or humiliating them. I once had a hypocritical and holier-than thou attiutude, and before God could heal me of my hurting heart and use me for his service.

Does it matter what I think? What matters is what God thinks. And what God has said is that I am not guilty. Not because of what I do or don't do, but because of what His Son has done.

 

[Yahshua]

Your forgiven no matter what. So your choice is not a choice of do this or else.

the issue now is. Why do you want to sin to begin with? (who are you trying to impress with your self willed neglect of the law?) or (are you just rebelling because)

If on the other hand, You know there are people on the roads beside you, and your speeding puts your life and there's in danger, not to mention the people who may be in the car with you. Then you would never even think of speeding, and would not need instruction

The reason why there's a choice after being declared right(eous) by the judge, and being made just(ified) by my attorney's free gift, and receiving the driving instructor (Holy Spirit)...is because - like Paul says - I am no longer a slave in bondage to "speeding". I now have a choice whether I will speed or not, whereas before I didn't have a choice.

Romans 6:6 - For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.

 

[Yahshua]

brb i have to go to the store. Will reply when i get back.

 

[seraphprincess]

When Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose from the grave on Easter Sunday, he fulfilled the law. The law was made complete, since Jesus was the new Adam, and through the first Adam everybody sinned, through Jesus the son of God and son of man the sins of all people who ever would be born were forgiven. In Genesis God promised a descendant of Eve would come who would crush the serpent's head, and the serpent would strike his heel. Jesus crushed Satan the old lying serpent with his bleeding, wounded feet, the nails in his heels on the cross, so great was his love for us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The reason why there's a choice after being declared right(eous) by the judge, and being made just(ified) by my attorney's free gift, and receiving the driving instructor (Holy Spirit)...is because - like Paul says - I am no longer a slave in bondage to "speeding". I now have a choice whether I will speed or not, whereas before I didn't have a choice.
Romans 6:6 - For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.

true, you do have a choice. which is why I said you must chose which way your going to go.

But like I said, You can never be convicted again, even if you do it again, because your penalty has been paid in full "it is finished" as jesus said.

The law did you no good before you were converted.

You do not need to be told after you were converted what the law was, You already confessed you were guilty. so what do you need that law for?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Like I tried to say earlier. I had a problem with your scenario.

Reality is like this.

Again as I said, your court date will not be until judgment day.

Until then you will speed all you want. And the only thing which can happen to you is you can crash, hurt yourself or others, and maybe kill others and maybe even kill yourself.

During that time (because you see the sign, and notice all the carnage that is happening because no one is obeying the law. You have had to fix your car so many times and have been injured so many times, and see the pain and suffering of those around you which yuo have caused,, not to mention the pain yourself. You keep trying things your way, and it never seems to work.

while your at it. You see some people who are driving in a respectful way, They are following the speed limit as posted. and are amazed, that they never seem to get into crashes. because of recklessness. Even when people hurt them, they are not angry or upset. they are always joyful no matter what.

you finally go ask them, and they say they have found that the judges son paid their sin debt in full. And they could be restored and not suffer they penalty of their sin. And the joy they have of being forgiven, and shown that the judge is not an evil judge but a loving judge, who did not want things to be so chaotic and painful and deadly. but organized and safe and joyful.

You decide to accept that payment on your behalf. Thus as john says, you have passed from death to life and will never be judged. ( yuo will never see the judge)

Your life changes, You do not need to speed. because you trust the judge to take care of you. You learn to love and care for others, you want to share this love with others.. so you live a life so others will be drawn to you as you were drawn to your discipler.

Yes, from time to time the trials of life get you to forget that the judge will get you where you need to be on time, and with all you need no matter how late you are. and you speed. You do not get down when you realize what you did, you love the judge even more. Because you know your forgiven, and next time hopefully you will trust him, and learn from your mistake (something you could never do before you were converted)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

brb i have to go to the store. Will reply when i get back.

I have another hard day at work tomorrow. So I better get to bed myself. will continue this discussion later, Hope your trip to the store went well.

 

[stonesoffire]

Not sure if this has been brought up before so disregard if it's already been discussed.

Jesus said that He was giving a new commandment after resurrection. To love others as He has loved us. Is this commandment added to the 10? Or does this one commandment fulfill the first two?

 

[Hungry]

I think I have it all figured out, but in case I just think I do, I generally suppress my urge to comment. Let's face it, we all think we are right and that's why we like to share our opinions. With that disclaimer I will share my interpretation and if you find it less than credible you can help correct me.

God is the Creator, He creates. Man was created with the purpose to be stewards over creation here on Earth. We were created as immortal spirit encased in flesh. The flesh is created to be an adaptable bio-mechanical device. Who knows what would have happened if man didn't fall. I think we can all agree that God is not stupid. If man lived and populated forever eventually we would run out of room. I think man was designed to live much longer than we do now but I think eventually the flesh would die and we would return to the creator. What kept Adam and Eve in fellowship with God and in Eden? Submission. Man wanting to be like God, causing disobedience leading to fear, guilt, and shame. This is the knowledge of evil. These debased emotions not only separate us from God but bring all kinds of sickness and disease to these fleshy vessels. When we submit to God and put Him in charge, we are supposed to give up our desire to rule ourselves. All sin is from ruling yourself. When you rule your own life, desire leads your steps. It makes you strive and yearn for creature comforts. This is feeding the flesh. The flesh is designed for survival and adaptation. Treating it like our master instead of a tool to carry out our mandate, causes us to desire, that leads to sin, that separates us from God. Love God and treat others as you want to be treated. This causes us to obey because loving God makes us want to obey Him, not have to obey Him. Loving others and desiring their benefit ahead of ours frees us from desire for self that leads to sin. Because man chose to lead himself we are born into sin because we are forced and trained to want, to compete for more. We call it success. To be born again is to be born of the spirit and recognize the flesh as our temporary vessel, and the meaning of life is not to gather creature comforts. The Commandments were given to a group of people whose hearts were hardened. Being slaves they only understood rules. Through faith in Christ our spirit is reunited with the Creator. Our flesh is just a vessel. Our sinful nature is just the remnants of our flesh doing what we have trained it to do. Our brain is part of the flesh and we have programmed it to be addicted to sinful behavior. Because of brain chemistry we will always be addicted, but we don't have to obey the temptations. We are not our flesh, and are no longer punished for what it does.

Maybe this will help clear some things up....or cause more confusion. Either way be blessed.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Not sure if this has been brought up before so disregard if it's already been discussed.

Jesus said that He was giving a new commandment after resurrection. To love others as He has loved us. Is this commandment added to the 10? Or does this one commandment fulfill the first two?

The new commandment is the same as the 2nd greatest commandment in Moses law (Leviticus 19:18). It's distinct from the 10 commandments. It was established as one of the two laws of the new covenant. The other law is faith.

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:18​