saved by Justification alone?

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gotime

Senior Member
#81
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#81
Some really good stuff guys love it.

The works are never our own. They are the works of Christ in us through us. When self dies and Christ lives within the obedience that form a human perspective looks human is actually the good news of Christ in you the hope of Glory.

I don't get angry not because it saves me no rather the one who got angry died and Christ lives his calm loving life through me. His works not ours.
 
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Roberth

Banned
#82
Oct 3, 2015
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#82
seed_time_harvest said:
I'm totally confused by that statement.[/QUOTE

Jesus died to sanctify us, But sanctification could not happen until we were justified.
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"IN Christ" we already stand justified, sanctified and glorified. See 1 Cor 1:30
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#83
Mar 3, 2011
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#83
Roberth said:


Evidence doesn't equal holiness.

Keep in mind the following:

1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us"
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keep in mind that the context there is to those who have yet to come to Christ.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#84
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#84
It also helps to understand that Justification is not the goal of the believer. Rather it is the avenue to what Christ came to do.
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seed_time_harvest said:
I'm totally confused by that statement.
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He could mean, 'glorification' next stop :)

And those whom he predestined, he also called; and those whom he called, he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.
(Rom 8:30)
 
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Roberth

Banned
#85
Oct 3, 2015
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#85
gotime said:
keep in mind that the context there is to those who have yet to come to Christ.
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That's not true...Come on!

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and thetruth is not in us.9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#86
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
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#86
crossnote said:
He could mean, 'glorification' next stop :)

And those whom he predestined, he also called; and those whom he called, he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.
(Rom 8:30)
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Jesus takes it all the way.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#87
#87
Roberth said:


Evidence doesn't equal holiness.

Keep in mind the following:

1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us"
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Evidence shows that one is saved in Christ as that evidence is produced in and through us by the Holy Spirit, for we can not bear fruit on our own.

No fruit Jesus clearly shows they will be cut off and burned as this is a clear showing that they are not abiding in the True Vine (Him). For one can not have the Holy Spirit and there be no proof of it !!!
 
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gotime

Senior Member
#88
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#88
Roberth said:
That's not true...Come on!

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and thetruth is not in us.9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
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yes it is:

and here it is:

1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

may have what? fellowship with us and the Father and Jesus Christ. Meaning that they do not yet have fellowship with them or Jesus.

Then how can we, if we confess we are sinners then He will cleanse us and then we will have fellowship but if we refuse to accept we are sinners then we can never have that fellowship cause we wont see our need.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#89
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#89
crossnote said:
When it comes to salvation/justification the ONLY connection to works is His works not ours. You must keep our works out of the equation...to mix our works with justification/salvation is a false gospel.
The issue is...is it our works that Justify us or Christ's works for salvation?
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I believe that a simple demonstration for what we have been trying to convey about salvation by grace through faith apart from works, any works, is that, If there was a line of people standing in front of Jesus and behind him was the entrance to the kingdom of God and he asked each individual, "Why should I let you in here?" What should the correct answer be? Would it be, "Lord, because you paid the penalty for my sins with your blood?" Or, "Lord, you shed your blood for me [and] I kept the Sabbath on Saturday, I abstained from certain foods, I clothed and fed the poor, I kept the ten commandments, etc., etc. If anyone answered with anything other than the first choice, they're dead! The response from the Lord will be, "depart from me you evil doer, I never knew you!" Our claim to salvation should be through the shed blood of Christ alone and as believers we should now be zealous for good works, looking to glorify God in all that we do.
 
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KennethC

Guest
#91
#91
Roberth said:


That's not true...Come on!

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and thetruth is not in us.9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
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Yes but this does not support continuous everyday deliberate sinning by believers, for if it did then it would contradict what John says a little later that those who are born in Christ can not sin, and also what he says in the very next chapter that "if" we sin again.

Notice he says if not that we will and always will, also in verse 6 what do you think walking in darkness means ???

It means to continue in deliberate habitual sinning lifestyle, as the context is about habitual sinning that born again believers can not do.
 
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weakness

Guest
#92
#92
dcontroversal said:
Agree with this for sure![/QUOTE I agree too. Wreaking my car gives me justification to get another one to get to work. Jesus justified our lives of because of sin by dieing for us without ever sinning , like going to jail for us I always thought sanctified means to be clean or inocent or set apart for somthing.
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J

JUSTNE1

Guest
#93
#93
The amazing thing is that the Old Testament Prophets such as Moses, Elijah and Isaiah etc are also saved by this Grace through Faith in Jesus even though Our Lords work was ahead of their time, it is written no man is Justified any other way.
This would imply that God chooses and elects as is written but that the Covenant never really changed but Fulfilled, as Christ decreed. It also shows Our Lords omnipresent character as Elijah was taken direct to heaven, the scriptures cannot be broken and Christ was the first to be reborn so in effect Elijah must have ascended after.
It also implies that works based salvation can never be anything other than human vanity as the foreknowledge of God to Salvation has been predetermined as are any works that we may or not perceive that we do.
In essence we were always in Christ who are in Christ and always have been!

Praise God! Amazing!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#94
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#94
KennethC said:
Why do you think the scripture says He remains faithful because He can not deny Himself ???

This is because the Holy Spirit that abides in us can not deny the teachings and commands of the Lord Jesus Christ, which is why it says even by Paul by faith we establish (Romans 3:31) the law, and walking in love upholds all commandments given by the Lord (Romans 13:9-11).

The Holy Spirit in us can not guide us in disobedience, for He was sent to strengthen us where we are weak and help us to abstain from and have victory over sin.

It is not me being good enough, it is about His righteousness molding us into His ways. We are not left to still continue to walk the same way we did before we were born again, and the scriptures even command us not to walk in the same sinful ways we use to.

Paul shows the difference of being in Christ and still continuing in the flesh, and he says those who walk by the Spirit abide in Christ and He in us. Apostle John shows the same thing by our walk/actions will tell if we abide in Christ and He in us, no evidence of this in our actions shows the Holy Spirit does not abide and we are not in the Truth.
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BECAUSE Christ cannot deny himself!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#95
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#95
KennethC said:
Evidence shows that one is saved in Christ as that evidence is produced in and through us by the Holy Spirit, for we can not bear fruit on our own.

No fruit Jesus clearly shows they will be cut off and burned as this is a clear showing that they are not abiding in the True Vine (Him). For one can not have the Holy Spirit and there be no proof of it !!!
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There is nothing but ignorance of the word here....as the bible does not teach this...nothing but a working for salvation that is nothing more than heresy! This view also sets forth ignorance of 1st Corinthians 3 and a saved child of God who is worldy and has works of wood, hay and stubble...man you take the cake for rejecring obvious truths that contradicts your stand!
 
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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#97
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#97
crossnote said:
And neither does He leave us when we prove unfaithful. He remains faithful.
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I agree and he will never understand because his working for salvation and false gospel blinds him to the truth!
 
MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#99
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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#99
Stephen63 said:
Do I have to put my previous post in font size 7 & color it in purple just for you to read what God Himself said?
And to the rest of you naysayers..... I don't need to prove myself over & over to you just to receive mocking & jeers. That's the Holy Spirit's job to convince, not mine.
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Even if you find a way to force the site to accept size 25, If people don't respond as you expect to small type; making it large is unlikely to change people's response.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#100
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
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#100
KennethC said:
Isaiah 64:5

Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those thatremember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.

Shall be saved which means they are not saved yet here !!!
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ESV . . . You meet him who joyfully works righteousness, those who remember you in your ways. Behold, you were angry, and we sinned; in our sins we have been a long time, and shall we be saved? (meant as a question) We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.
NIV . . . You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways. But when we continued to sin against them,you were angry. How then can we be saved? (meant as a question) All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; . .

How then can we be saved because all our righteous deeds/acts are like a polluted garment/are like filthy rags . . . There was someone coming that would take care of that . . .

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe . . . When do we have to believe? not now but in the future? . . . in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved . . . According to you - not now but in the future. NIV - If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe (now) in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. . . . ESV - because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved . . . Your understanding of the word "shall" may not be up to par . . .

NIV - See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are!!!
(now) 1 John 3:1a
ESV - See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. (now)
 
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