Works

[Grace777x70]

Unfortunately your stepsisters experience has nothing to do with what Jesus did when He came here to show us the heart of the Father. We cannot let our experiences dictate truth...only scripture does that and Jesus is perfect theology. You never see Jesus refusing anyone that came to Him to be healed.

Sometimes we look to the man for healing...but only Jesus is our healer!

Take the incident where the disciples couldn't get a demon cast out and then Jesus came and healed the boy. To any on-lookers they would say.."See..it's not God's will to heal because the disciples couldn't get it done...but when Jesus ( Mr. perfect theology ) showed up - He showed that it was in fact the Father's will for that boy to get well.

Acts 10:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

It is always God's will to heal people...it's in the gospel ( see post #78 )..in saying that..there can come a time where we can give up our lives for Christ by standing for Him as our brethren are in Syria right now. That is a different from having a sickness on us. Our physical bodies will eventually wear out and we'll leave our bodies here but there is the hope of a new body - a glorified one in Christ!

My stepsister chased faith healers around and she still died. She brought people who walked with two canes who should have been in wheelchairs to be healed and they left the same way they came in.

 

[coby]

My stepsister chased faith healers around and she still died. She brought people who walked with two canes who should have been in wheelchairs to be healed and they left the same way they came in.

I saw someone all of a sudden starting to walk twice in my life. Once in Canada, I saw him walking towards the meeting with his crutches. Then during the meeting he threw them in the air. Another one in a meeting here in Holland. He was just saved and did something he couldn't do. He jumped on the podium. I thought: man, this guy is just saved and he's instantly healed. Look at me. I had RSI for at least a year, read Bible texts hours a day and confessed that I was healed. I thought: look at him, he simply steps out in faith, so I did it too. I started to bump on the floor with that arm and they prayed, it was completely gone. Believers shouldn't follow the signs, but the other way around. I also saw people die after prayer. I remember that happy Hunter I got the course from said the first person she prayed for died. Well she just prayed for the next one. We can give up if we see that it doesn't always work, but we shouldn't do that.

 

[Chuckt]

Unfortunately your stepsisters experience has nothing to do with what Jesus did when He came here to show us the heart of the Father. We cannot let our experiences dictate truth...only scripture does that and Jesus is perfect theology. You never see Jesus refusing anyone that came to Him to be healed.

Sometimes we look to the man for healing...but only Jesus is our healer!

Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.-John 6:26

The rhetorical answer is that people are only following Jesus because he fed them and not because they wanted Jesus to be Lord and Savior.


Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

The purpose of a parable was to conceal a matter. Why do we have over 2,000 cults and many denominations if the truth is so clear to us? Jesus could make the truth more plain and then people who want nothing to do with salvation or Jesus would come get saved because then there wouldn't be any doubt. Why does God not heal? Because people who don't want Jesus would come get saved and how do you deal with unrepentant people in heaven? Why don't we just open up hell and let them come into heaven? What kind of problems would there be?


Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Healing was a sign to the earthly ministry of Jesus and if healing and healing is not guaranteed in the atonement because then no one would die. The father commanded that in the day Adam ate from the tree in the garden, Adam would die. And so we all die because the reason is given in Genesis that God doesn't want us to live forever in our sin nature which is why he put two angels in front of the tree of life. Why didn't God just forgive Adam and Eve right there and just heal them there by letting them eat of the tree of life in the Garden of Eve if healing was guaranteed in the atonement?

My grandmother had a superstition not to eat any fruit that touched the ground because God cursed the ground:

Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Healing goes against the curse and it goes against Adam's choice so if healing is guaranteed then Satan no longer has the right to be god of this world (2. Cor. 4:4) and it would overlook the truth that Adam acted as head of the human race and gave his dominion over to Satan.

Second, the Holy Spirit is called the earnest (2 Cor. 5:5). Earnest is a down payment which means we haven't received all that Christ died for.

Until Jesus redeems the the title deed and opens the scroll, the fruit of the fall will continue.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Did Jesus argue? Did Jesus say it was His kingdom?
It isn't the end of the age yet and we still have sickness because healing in the atonement is not yet guaranteed.

And the fact that Jesus only called Lazarus back from the grave should tell us something.

Paul didn't tell Timothy to get healed. Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach so this idea of healing should be in a movie called "False Teachers Gone Wild."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A few notes.

People do not heal others. God does
People do not rise others from the dead, If he wishes, Only God could do this.

If someone goes around puffing up the fact that they raise people from the dd and heal others. Then run, They are not giving God credit. When lightenewing strikes, I do not want to be near them!

 

[3Scoreand10]

I saw someone all of a sudden starting to walk twice in my life. Once in Canada, I saw him walking towards the meeting with his crutches. Then during the meeting he threw them in the air. Another one in a meeting here in Holland. He was just saved and did something he couldn't do. He jumped on the podium. I thought: man, this guy is just saved and he's instantly healed. Look at me. I had RSI for at least a year, read Bible texts hours a day and confessed that I was healed. I thought: look at him, he simply steps out in faith, so I did it too. I started to bump on the floor with that arm and they prayed, it was completely gone. Believers shouldn't follow the signs, but the other way around. I also saw people die after prayer. I remember that happy Hunter I got the course from said the first person she prayed for died. Well she just prayed for the next one. We can give up if we see that it doesn't always work, but we shouldn't do that.

Just part of the show.
These people are like the circus.
I had an uncle that worked in one of these healing circus acts before he was saved.
Wake up folks. Your are being deceived.

 

[BenFTW]

Just part of the show.
These people are like the circus.
I had an uncle that worked in one of these healing circus acts before he was saved.
Wake up folks. Your are being deceived.

Cessationist?

 

[3Scoreand10]

Cessationist?

That is what the word clearly teaches.
God clearly works miracles and heals today. But it is not by the hands of these con men/women who are in it for fame and money. God does not make a spectacle or show of His work.

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus is perfect theology.

Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law. The curses of the law are in Deut 28:15-48..lots
of sicknesses in there..

Can I ask you a question....do you believe the manifestations of the Holy Spirit ( some call them gifts ) in 1 Cor 12...are they still here working in people's lives?

Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.-John 6:26

The rhetorical answer is that people are only following Jesus because he fed them and not because they wanted Jesus to be Lord and Savior.


Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

The purpose of a parable was to conceal a matter. Why do we have over 2,000 cults and many denominations if the truth is so clear to us? Jesus could make the truth more plain and then people who want nothing to do with salvation or Jesus would come get saved because then there wouldn't be any doubt. Why does God not heal? Because people who don't want Jesus would come get saved and how do you deal with unrepentant people in heaven? Why don't we just open up hell and let them come into heaven? What kind of problems would there be?


Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Healing was a sign to the earthly ministry of Jesus and if healing and healing is not guaranteed in the atonement because then no one would die. The father commanded that in the day Adam ate from the tree in the garden, Adam would die. And so we all die because the reason is given in Genesis that God doesn't want us to live forever in our sin nature which is why he put two angels in front of the tree of life. Why didn't God just forgive Adam and Eve right there and just heal them there by letting them eat of the tree of life in the Garden of Eve if healing was guaranteed in the atonement?

My grandmother had a superstition not to eat any fruit that touched the ground because God cursed the ground:

Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Healing goes against the curse and it goes against Adam's choice so if healing is guaranteed then Satan no longer has the right to be god of this world (2. Cor. 4:4) and it would overlook the truth that Adam acted as head of the human race and gave his dominion over to Satan.

Second, the Holy Spirit is called the earnest (2 Cor. 5:5). Earnest is a down payment which means we haven't received all that Christ died for.

Until Jesus redeems the the title deed and opens the scroll, the fruit of the fall will continue.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Did Jesus argue? Did Jesus say it was His kingdom?
It isn't the end of the age yet and we still have sickness because healing in the atonement is not yet guaranteed.

And the fact that Jesus only called Lazarus back from the grave should tell us something.

Paul didn't tell Timothy to get healed. Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach so this idea of healing should be in a movie called "False Teachers Gone Wild."

 

[coby]

Just part of the show.
These people are like the circus.
I had an uncle that worked in one of these healing circus acts before he was saved.
Wake up folks. Your are being deceived.

Oh well I was very happy I was healed myself too and could work again, so that wasn't a charlatan.

 

[Grace777x70]

There are definitely false people in every aspect of Christianity but I wouldn't throw the baby out for the dirty water. I have seen a few charlatans myself..I just ignore them and preach the true manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

Just part of the show.
These people are like the circus.
I had an uncle that worked in one of these healing circus acts before he was saved.
Wake up folks. Your are being deceived.

 

[coby]

Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.-John 6:26

The rhetorical answer is that people are only following Jesus because he fed them and not because they wanted Jesus to be Lord and Savior.


Matthew 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

The purpose of a parable was to conceal a matter. Why do we have over 2,000 cults and many denominations if the truth is so clear to us? Jesus could make the truth more plain and then people who want nothing to do with salvation or Jesus would come get saved because then there wouldn't be any doubt. Why does God not heal? Because people who don't want Jesus would come get saved and how do you deal with unrepentant people in heaven? Why don't we just open up hell and let them come into heaven? What kind of problems would there be?


Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Healing was a sign to the earthly ministry of Jesus and if healing and healing is not guaranteed in the atonement because then no one would die. The father commanded that in the day Adam ate from the tree in the garden, Adam would die. And so we all die because the reason is given in Genesis that God doesn't want us to live forever in our sin nature which is why he put two angels in front of the tree of life. Why didn't God just forgive Adam and Eve right there and just heal them there by letting them eat of the tree of life in the Garden of Eve if healing was guaranteed in the atonement?

My grandmother had a superstition not to eat any fruit that touched the ground because God cursed the ground:

Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Healing goes against the curse and it goes against Adam's choice so if healing is guaranteed then Satan no longer has the right to be god of this world (2. Cor. 4:4) and it would overlook the truth that Adam acted as head of the human race and gave his dominion over to Satan.

Second, the Holy Spirit is called the earnest (2 Cor. 5:5). Earnest is a down payment which means we haven't received all that Christ died for.

Until Jesus redeems the the title deed and opens the scroll, the fruit of the fall will continue.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Matthew 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Did Jesus argue? Did Jesus say it was His kingdom?
It isn't the end of the age yet and we still have sickness because healing in the atonement is not yet guaranteed.

And the fact that Jesus only called Lazarus back from the grave should tell us something.

Paul didn't tell Timothy to get healed. Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach so this idea of healing should be in a movie called "False Teachers Gone Wild."

It's all about the heart of people. The pharisees wanted a sign so they could kill Him, the other bunch just wanted to eat, but He said to one man: unless you people see signs and wonders you will by no means believe and He healed his son and the man and his whole household got saved.

 

[KennethC]

Works do not save or maintain salvation !!!

They are the product and "proof" of one who is truly saved in Christ unto salvation.

Salvation is a process, not a one time event !!!

The gifts of the Holy Spirit still exist today, all of them, yet we do have some that are not doing these gifts along the lines of how the bible says they should and will be done.

And the said thing is that these fake versions are being defended by some Christians instead of rebuked as they should be.

Speaking out loud in tongues without an interpreter, making a show out of it, using them for gain, and tempted God in the process by misusing what was given. These are all false versions that should not be supported or defended !!!

True healings do not happen all the time or whenever the person wants to do it, it is done by the Holy Spirit through the person when it serves God's will.

Some people are left not healed for a learning process for growth and so they can be a testimony to other going through the same situations.

Believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but do not follow after charlatans !!!

 

[3Scoreand10]

Oh well I was very happy I was healed myself too and could work again, so that wasn't a charlatan.

If you were healed, it was by the grace of God and not at the hands of this con man.
How much did you put in the offering plate that night to pay for healing?
I will assure you that that con man made a lot of money that night.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Works do not save or maintain salvation !!!

They are the product and "proof" of one who is truly saved in Christ unto salvation.

Salvation is a process, not a one time event !!!

You can not make this statement, then claim works are not a means to be saved..

The ONLY way works can be left out of the means to salvation is that salvation is a one time event..

 

[3Scoreand10]

You can not make this statement, then claim works are not a means to be saved..

The ONLY way works can be left out of the means to salvation is that salvation is a one time event..

Ken has deceived himself that he does not teach a works based salvation.
In a previous post, he stated that in his youth he choose to walk away from God there by losing his salvation and had to be saved a second time. He also teaches that water baptism is necessary for salvation. Water baptism is a work.

 

[MikeHenderson]

Being healed is not proof that a person has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. There are many people out there deceiving people into believing they were healed the minute they claim to have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ken has deceived himself that he does not teach a works based salvation.
In a previous post, he stated that in his youth he choose to walk away from God there by losing his salvation and had to be saved a second time. He also teaches that water baptism is necessary for salvation. Water baptism is a work.

I know. He has me on ignore because I keep calling him out on it.. I guess he thinks that will shut me up..

 

[KennethC]

Ken has deceived himself that he does not teach a works based salvation.
In a previous post, he stated that in his youth he choose to walk away from God there by losing his salvation and had to be saved a second time. He also teaches that water baptism is necessary for salvation. Water baptism is a work.

Look if you believe it is okay to be a lazy or disobedient servant go right on ahead as that is your choice, but when you stand before Christ don't tell Him you were never warned.

Matthew 25 and Luke 12 both Jesus speaks on such issues, and in both cases the lazy and disobedient servants do not get eternal life !!!

Just because you and a few others can not get over the "Works" aspect and realize that salvation/eternal life all hangs on the fact of faith in Christ (abiding in Him) there is no more I can teach you !!!

Eternal security only exists "IN" Christ, outside of Christ there is no security !!!

I know exactly what God said to me by the Holy Spirit when I left to go do my own thing, God kept coming after me to get me to return to Him. He did this because He showed me that if I died in that disobedient state I would not be in the kingdom !!!

You can continue to think disobedience does not matter, but the Word of God calls disobedience "Unbelief."

 

[KennethC]

Being healed is not proof that a person has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. There are many people out there deceiving people into believing they were healed the minute they claim to have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

I did not say being healed is proof of one who has accepted Jesus, please read what I actually said as the bible supports it !!!

A person who has accepted Christ and abides in Him their works/actions/speech will be proof of that.

They will not continue to walk around still being the same old deliberate sinful person they once were, and the bible says if they do then their conversion and repentance was false. Or the other situation is that they gave back into their lusts and returned to that lifestyle.

Apostle James clearly shows that when one departs from the Truth, if they do not return then they will not be saved !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Look if you believe it is okay to be a lazy or disobedient servant go right on ahead as that is your choice, but when you stand before Christ don't tell Him you were never warned.

Matthew 25 and Luke 12 both Jesus speaks on such issues, and in both cases the lazy and disobedient servants do not get eternal life !!!

Just because you and a few others can not get over the "Works" aspect and realize that salvation/eternal life all hangs on the fact of faith in Christ (abiding in Him) there is no more I can teach you !!!

Eternal security only exists "IN" Christ, outside of Christ there is no security !!!

I know exactly what God said to me by the Holy Spirit when I left to go do my own thing, God kept coming after me to get me to return to Him. He did this because He showed me that if I died in that disobedient state I would not be in the kingdom !!!

You can continue to think disobedience does not matter, but the Word of God calls disobedience "Unbelief."

We know God warned us, If we get lazy, We know we will suffer.

Unlike you. we do not work to keep salvation We work to find the JOY God promised to those who love him

We love him because he first loved us, Not because he may praise us and save us f we work really really really hard to please him.