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I will agree 100 percent as far as it comes to salvation.
But that is not what I am discussing, I am discussing the other promises God gave to one single nation. He even confirmed that promise to two of the first sons of abraham, And declaires he will remember his promise to them if Israel repent.
That has nothing to do wiht anyone salvation.
But that is not what I am discussing, I am discussing the other promises God gave to one single nation. He even confirmed that promise to two of the first sons of abraham, And declaires he will remember his promise to them if Israel repent.
That has nothing to do wiht anyone salvation.
I am not sure I am getting your point here. Of course it preceded the time that the dragon waits for the child. As I stated in my outline, this represents the fact that the governing powers of Israel were taken away as they were now subjects of Roman authorities. This suggests the power of the Roman empire over the the woman - the nation of Israel. Have I misunderstood you?
this was for this post to old hermit etc
strange babylon, is an old name for iraq. and you wonder why people can t follow the novels of interpretation. (your long posts)
and a dragon is a money man. (7 stock exchange s)
just gos to show, by keeping it tied to roman, only shows, that you miss the universe, being transformed before history.
i don t have time to read all your posts, but at a guess i would be wasting my time.
this was for this post to old hermit etc
strange babylon, is an old name for iraq. and you wonder why people can t follow the novels of interpretation. (your long posts)
and a dragon is a money man. (7 stock exchange s)
just gos to show, by keeping it tied to roman, only shows, that you miss the universe, being transformed before history.
i don t have time to read all your posts, but at a guess i would be wasting my time.
this is a bible forum , not a one track response ,
for example
if some one disagrees with your interpretation, but if you have defined wrongly in small places, then there is a good chance you have defined wrongly in most places. give prophesy definition is not tried only to the bible, but to future era, and people etc
prophesy
ˈprɒfɪsʌɪ/
verb
[COLOR=#878787 !important]verb: prophesy; 3rd person present: prophesies; past tense: prophesied; past participle: prophesied; gerund or present participle: prophesying[/COLOR]
This suggests the power of the Roman empire over the the woman - the nation of Israel. Have I misunderstood you?
usa was not discovered ,nor were many of the planets etc
for example
if some one disagrees with your interpretation, but if you have defined wrongly in small places, then there is a good chance you have defined wrongly in most places. give prophesy definition is not tried only to the bible, but to future era, and people etc
prophesy
ˈprɒfɪsʌɪ/
verb
[COLOR=#878787 !important]verb: prophesy; 3rd person present: prophesies; past tense: prophesied; past participle: prophesied; gerund or present participle: prophesying[/COLOR]
- say that (a specified thing) will happen in the future.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"Jacques was prophesying a bumper harvest"[/COLOR]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]predict, foretell, forecast, foresee, forewarn of, prognosticate, divine; More
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
for example
This suggests the power of the Roman empire over the the woman - the nation of Israel. Have I misunderstood you?
usa was not discovered ,nor were many of the planets etc
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As I stated earlier, chapter twelve is a microcosm of the entire redemptive plan of God from the nation of Israel to the victory of the saints.
Let's review the symbols and how these symbols are represented by the text and see is we still agree on this.
1. The woman with child in verses 1 and 2 is Israel as an appointed nation.2."Clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet,” represents the splendor of the nation that God had given her.
3. The "twelve stars” represents the 12 tribes of the nations.
4. “And she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.” This is Israel in travail as she brings forth her Messiah.
5. The"great red dragon" Is Satan according to verse nine.
6. "Having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.” This Represents the nation of Rome represented in the seven mountains on which the woman sits," which are "seven kings" - Roman emperors.
7. The “The ten horns" are the confederate kingdoms who give their power and authority to the beast,”
8. The sweeping away of a third of the stars of heaven and throwing them to the earth.” speaks of power has been taken away. This suggests the power of the Roman empire over these confederate nations. This would include the nation of Israel that fell under Roman dominance.
9. The time element provided by the text is in verse 4, the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.” This defines the time in which this scene takes place. And the seeking to devour the child is the attempt on the life of Jesus when he was born.
10. "And she gave birth to a son, a male child, This is Jesus, not the Church which is always represented in the feminine.
11. "Her child was caught up to God and to His throne.” This in the coronation scene of Messiah at his ascension fromDaniel 7:13-14.
12. “Then the woman (Israel) fled into the wilderness.” These are the Jewish Christians who fled to the mountains as the Lord had warned them to do when the destruction of Jerusalem began.
13. The thousand two hundred and sixty days” is the same thing as the time, times, and half time. 1260 days = 3 1/2 half years. It is the 42 months which is also 1260 days. What John is doing is narrowing the field of interpretation of Daniel's time, times, and half time which he interpresents by revelation as 3 1/2 years. This makes it a literal number linked to a specific time designation that is described the same way in three differeny neumeric terms.
If you think I have misrepresented any of these symbols please feel free to let me know.
Let's review the symbols and how these symbols are represented by the text and see is we still agree on this.
1. The woman with child in verses 1 and 2 is Israel as an appointed nation.2."Clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet,” represents the splendor of the nation that God had given her.
3. The "twelve stars” represents the 12 tribes of the nations.
4. “And she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.” This is Israel in travail as she brings forth her Messiah.
5. The"great red dragon" Is Satan according to verse nine.
6. "Having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.” This Represents the nation of Rome represented in the seven mountains on which the woman sits," which are "seven kings" - Roman emperors.
7. The “The ten horns" are the confederate kingdoms who give their power and authority to the beast,”
8. The sweeping away of a third of the stars of heaven and throwing them to the earth.” speaks of power has been taken away. This suggests the power of the Roman empire over these confederate nations. This would include the nation of Israel that fell under Roman dominance.
9. The time element provided by the text is in verse 4, the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.” This defines the time in which this scene takes place. And the seeking to devour the child is the attempt on the life of Jesus when he was born.
10. "And she gave birth to a son, a male child, This is Jesus, not the Church which is always represented in the feminine.
11. "Her child was caught up to God and to His throne.” This in the coronation scene of Messiah at his ascension fromDaniel 7:13-14.
12. “Then the woman (Israel) fled into the wilderness.” These are the Jewish Christians who fled to the mountains as the Lord had warned them to do when the destruction of Jerusalem began.
13. The thousand two hundred and sixty days” is the same thing as the time, times, and half time. 1260 days = 3 1/2 half years. It is the 42 months which is also 1260 days. What John is doing is narrowing the field of interpretation of Daniel's time, times, and half time which he interpresents by revelation as 3 1/2 years. This makes it a literal number linked to a specific time designation that is described the same way in three differeny neumeric terms.
If you think I have misrepresented any of these symbols please feel free to let me know.
i understand that bro. but
Definition of Manna: Manna was the supernaturalfood God gave to the Israelites during their 40-year wandering in the desert. The word manna means"What is it?" in Hebrew.
verses.
bread crumbs that fall off someones table (all )
my god , gives food , other gods give crumbs . etc to get to root you need all, etc
Definition of Manna: Manna was the supernaturalfood God gave to the Israelites during their 40-year wandering in the desert. The word manna means"What is it?" in Hebrew.
verses.
bread crumbs that fall off someones table (all )
my god , gives food , other gods give crumbs . etc to get to root you need all, etc
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Brother oldhermit,
Time has been short and I'm still studying your posts to understand your viewpoint.
======================================
I agree with points 1-11.
============================
In post # 370, in a response about who is the remnant in Rev 12:17, you say,
"These are the Jewish Christians"
But in point 12, speaking about the woman fleeing into the wilderness v 6, you say that "These are the Jewish Christians".
You have both the woman and the remnant being the "Jewish Christians".
=========================================
May I suggest that the remnant is the gentile Christians?
The "seed" is the seed of the kingdom, (mustard seed), among the gentile nations.
==============================================
But if this would be true, then it would identify the woman as the "natural branches".
Would this change your overall understanding of the Ch 12?
Time has been short and I'm still studying your posts to understand your viewpoint.
======================================
I agree with points 1-11.
============================
In post # 370, in a response about who is the remnant in Rev 12:17, you say,
"These are the Jewish Christians"
But in point 12, speaking about the woman fleeing into the wilderness v 6, you say that "These are the Jewish Christians".
You have both the woman and the remnant being the "Jewish Christians".
=========================================
May I suggest that the remnant is the gentile Christians?
The "seed" is the seed of the kingdom, (mustard seed), among the gentile nations.
==============================================
But if this would be true, then it would identify the woman as the "natural branches".
Would this change your overall understanding of the Ch 12?
The woman of the text has given birth to a Son - Messiah who has ascended to the throne. The Jews were the first converts to Christianity. Thus, they are still the woman who fled into the wilderness. They are still of Israel. This does not of course omit any Gentile converts. It is just that the focus in on the nation of Israel, not the nations. If we are to suggest that the remnant is the Gentiles then we are going to have to find a text that refers to Gentiles as the remnant. The 'remnant' was always indicative of the faithful of Israel. See 2 Kings 19:31, Isaiah 10:21-22; 11:5-16; 37:32, Rom 9:27, and many others.
Brother oldhermit,
My internet is really bad, I lose parts of posts, so if you get a weird one that's why.
The woman who gives birth is the natural branches of Israel.
The natural branches of the kingdom are seen "fleeing".
The remnant can't be the "natural" branches because they flee.
The remnant would still be the "faithful of Israel", but gentiles, the wild branches.
Rom 11:19, "The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in".
This verse would show that the gentiles were a "type" of remnant of Israel.
If the natural branches were broken off, who would then remain?
My internet is really bad, I lose parts of posts, so if you get a weird one that's why.
The woman who gives birth is the natural branches of Israel.
The natural branches of the kingdom are seen "fleeing".
The remnant can't be the "natural" branches because they flee.
The remnant would still be the "faithful of Israel", but gentiles, the wild branches.
Rom 11:19, "The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in".
This verse would show that the gentiles were a "type" of remnant of Israel.
If the natural branches were broken off, who would then remain?
The reason the woman is fleeing is by divine decree. She is fleeing the destruction that was befalling Jerusalem. Jesus tells his disciples - Jews, to flee to the mountains when they saw the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. In Luke 21:20-22 he says it this way, “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled."