James 2?

[John146]

James 1:3 doesn't even say anything about the "twelve tribes". Lets actually read the verse before commenting then maybe you can comment with understanding.

James 1:3

[SUP]3 [/SUP]"Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience."

These are believing Jews being addressed.

The OT Jew had to live by their own faith. The believer in the Church Age lives by the faith of Christ.

Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."

Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

 

[John146]

When you stop trying to make scripture fit Pauline doctrine, you will begin to see truth. Until then you will always be blind to scripture. I know, I was there once.

Romans 4:2

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.


Romans 4:13

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

I would never try to make it fit Pauline doctrine, that's the mistake.

Notice when Paul uses Abraham as an example, Abraham is uncircumcised. When James uses Abraham, he is circumcised as in Gen. 22. Abraham can be used as a dual type, to God's physical people the twelve tribes of Israel, and God's spiritual people, the body of Christ.

 

[John146]

Ever read John 15?

No one was "in Christ" in John 15.

 

[John146]

All those scriptures I gave have the exact same Greek word as James used here.

James 1:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.


I think you are looking at the meaning of "soul" from your religious upbringing and how it has been used in church. There are a few meanings for the word soul. We all do this which is why we need to have our minds renewed constantly when we see new truth.

You know me Grace777x70, I don't play the Greek game. I believe the word of God as it stands, every word. But I'll play along...so the word of God will save your present life by keeping you from sin? Is that what most commentaries say?

 

[John146]

You have to admit, if you were a tribulation Jew, the book of James would be an excellent read.

 

[Scriptureplz]

The OT Jew had to live by their own faith. The believer in the Church Age lives by the faith of Christ.

Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."

Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

When do you think James was written? You need to just stop and become a student. Until you do you will not understand scripture because you are trying to make it fit a Pauline doctrine which is false.

 

[Scriptureplz]

No one was "in Christ" in John 15.

I asked if you had read it!

 

[Grace777x70]

You know me Grace777x70, I don't play the Greek game. I believe the word of God as it stands, every word. But I'll play along...so the word of God will save your present life by keeping you from sin? Is that what most commentaries say?

I would seriously consider getting a Greek concordance. You can keep the KJV as there are concordances dedicated to the KJV but it will help you immensely to discover jewels in the scriptures.

I haven't read any commentaries on James 1:21 yet but ...Yes...the word of God will definitely save our soul ( as in our quality of life being experienced on this earth as I have shown you in the other scriptures)..

It's called the renewing of the mind ( which is an aspect of our soul ) will save your soul. Let's say that I am prone to panic attacks. I receive the engrafted word of God that says " God has not given me a spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind".

As I receive the truth of this and believe it..my panic attacks go away. My soul is being saved. The Greek word "saved" means wholeness, health, to rescue, preserve, to save.

And we have to receive it with meekness. That means we humble ourselves and submit to the authority of God’s Word above our own wisdom. It needs to be engrafted into us as branches are engrafted into trees.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Abraham justified himself before GOD that he truly did believe GOD. Abraham couldn't have cared less what men thought. What he did had nothing to do with being justified before men.

And this did not require physical works that GOD would need to see,but James said show me your faith without your work and I will show you my faith by my works.

A person can't show their faith without showing their works,which would require a body that can be seen, by a person.

 

[garee]

These are just a couple of passages that indicate believers are being addressed. To understand context of any passage it must be determined who is being addressed. The epistle of James is of such importance to be understood correctly. Why not give this message some time out of your day to see this view and determine to yourself if Dr. Cucuzza has it interpreted correctly?

Hi Scriptureplz,

He missed the opening statement as to the context of James 2, it sets the context .The commandment reads...

Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not “the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory”, with respect of persons.

He completely left out the opening "law of faith" in respect to the “faith of Christ” the anointing Holy Spirit of God. We are not to have Christ’s work of faith, as a labor of His love that works in us in respect to any man and it (the faith) includes coming from Abraham .

Do you believe God needs faith to work in us to both will and do His good pleasure? Do we avoid talking about the faith of God and how His faith worked, with his works, and by His works, His faith was made perfect? Would we dare to contribute His faith to Abraham or any sinner?

Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

After all Job 23 informs us .He is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases .He performs that which is appointed to us just as he did with Abraham. It is he that makes our hearts soft.

There is no work we could do of our own selves that we could offer towards God.They would be considered dead works..

 

[God4me]

Abraham justified himself before GOD that he truly did believe GOD. Abraham couldn't have cared less what men thought. What he did had nothing to do with being justified before men.

Abraham was already justified before God, [as a man of God], Way before he offered up Isaac, So it wasn't his work of offering Isaac that made Abraham a man of God, and it's not works that make people children of God.

James is talking about being justified before men, See James 2: 18.

If you think works save/justifies you, then go and kill one of your children, on a loved one, Then you be confident that you are saved.
But anyone who knows the Bible, will know that Clothing and feeding people, protecting people or offering their children to be killed, doesn't SAVE US. So James isn't talking about works for salvation.

 

[garee]

Abraham was already justified before God, [as a man of God], Way before he offered up Isaac, So it wasn't his work of offering Isaac that made Abraham a man of God, and it's not works that make people children of God.

James is talking about being justified before men, See James 2: 18.

If you think works save/justifies you, then go and kill one of your children, on a loved one, Then you be confident that you are saved.
But anyone who knows the Bible, will know that Clothing and feeding people, protecting people or offering their children to be killed, doesn't SAVE US. So James isn't talking about works for salvation.

I would agree it was not Abraham’s work of his own faith, coming from his own heart as the imaginations thereof that gave himself justification. But it did require the work of God that worked in Abraham to both will and do God’s good pleasure. For the faith of God without the works of God would be dead and we would still be in our sin had not he finished all the work required to save us.

If we do not see God as needing faith to works his works. Then I think the whole chapter of James 2 is dead. Because it is built on the faith of Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Abraham was already justified before God, [as a man of God], Way before he offered up Isaac, So it wasn't his work of offering Isaac that made Abraham a man of God, and it's not works that make people children of God.

James is talking about being justified before men, See James 2: 18.

If you think works save/justifies you, then go and kill one of your children, on a loved one, Then you be confident that you are saved.
But anyone who knows the Bible, will know that Clothing and feeding people, protecting people or offering their children to be killed, doesn't SAVE US. So James isn't talking about works for salvation.

That's all it can mean. What sense does your interpretation make in the context of not feeding and sheltering a needy brother? The message is clear: a mouth that says I love GOD (foremost commandment) isn't enough to save a person because loving GOD is loving the brothers. In other words, hypocritical faith doesn't save.

 

[garee]

That's all it can mean. What sense does your interpretation make in the context of not feeding and sheltering a needy brother? The message is clear: a mouth that says I love GOD (foremost commandment) isn't enough to save a person because loving GOD is loving the brothers. In other words, hypocritical faith doesn't save.

Yes we cannot have the faith that comes from the imagination of our own sinful hearts that we would offer towards God.That kind of faith toward God would be dead.

Two kinds of faith, two directions.

God's work of faith towards us-ward and the creature work of faith towards God, God-ward

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

The foundation of repentance is based on the faith of Christ working towards us. The anointing Holy Spirit, Christ doing the first work, which is to believe God who is working in us to both will and do his good pleasure. It is the same first works through the hearing of His faith by which we did first believe as that in which those in Revelation 3 are told to repent .This is seeing they were putting their faith in men called the Nicolaitanes. Rather than walking by faith (the unseen)


Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

[JustWhoIAm]

James 2:23 - FRIEND OF GOD.

Friend.

Relationships go two ways. Abraham WANTED to be God's FRIEND. That was a big part of his justification - not just belief but his willingness to seek his friendship with the Lord primarily before anything else.

God is not some void that expects absolute obedience and doesn't pitch in to make the friendship work. His nature is to bless because he loves us. He met Abraham in the middle. Those two spent much time talking as buddies (along with many other heroes of the faith).

 

[God4me]

I would agree it was not Abraham’s work of his own faith, coming from his own heart as the imaginations thereof that gave himself justification. But it did require the work of God that worked in Abraham to both will and do God’s good pleasure. For the faith of God without the works of God would be dead and we would still be in our sin had not he finished all the work required to save us.

If we do not see God as needing faith to works his works. Then I think the whole chapter of James 2 is dead. Because it is built on the faith of Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God.

You sound like a Calvinist, They say people can't believe unless God gives them the faith. And there was no work involved in Abraham becoming a man of God, See Rom 4: 1--5.
He was justified by faith alone.

 

[God4me]

That's all it can mean. What sense does your interpretation make in the context of not feeding and sheltering a needy brother? The message is clear: a mouth that says I love GOD (foremost commandment) isn't enough to save a person because loving GOD is loving the brothers. In other words, hypocritical faith doesn't save.

Feeding, clothing, protecting people and offering your child as a sacrifice, DOES NOT save anyone.

 

[Scriptureplz]

Feeding, clothing, protecting people and offering your child as a sacrifice, DOES NOT save anyone.

Amen! Fruit "of the Spirit" bring forth works, but only if we "abide" in Him (John 15:1-8). A believer can be saved but not a disciple. Disciple's are those that continue in the Word and make them a part of their life in submission to Him. This submission is not a requirement to be saved, and that is where many are confused and teach others a false gospel of works.

 

[KJV1611]

James 2 is simple... there are two types of faith, head knowledge and the faith that God gives his children. God given faith produces good works.

 

[garee]

You sound like a Calvinist, They say people can't believe unless God gives them the faith. And there was no work involved in Abraham becoming a man of God, See Rom 4: 1--5.
He was justified by faith alone.

Where else would we get the faith from if not from God who has no form ?

Calvin is dead and we are not to have the faith of Christ in respect to other persons .This would include Calvin, Abraham or in respect to my own-self, as gods we could have before him.

See Rom 4: 1--5.
He was justified by faith alone.

Yes the faith of Christ, alone that worked in Abraham... just as it works in us to both will and do the good pleasure of our Savior. There is no difference he purifies the hearts of all men through his faith working in them .

No faith, no God. Know the faith of God, know the salvation he works in us.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

The froward generation.The generation of Adam as in natural unconverted man.

The generation of Christ those who have the faith of Christ.