Total inability - original sin - inherited from adam

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HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#401
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#401
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Those who believe in total inability are totally unable. What I find remarkable and funny (hilarious actually) is the position (held by some) that we are the righteousness of GOD, yet we are unable to work righteousness. The only way such a totally contradictory mindset can be rationalized is through the gnostic dissociation process that divides a person into two separate egos and then rejects (denies the existence of) one of them (total inability) and embraces (identifies with) the other (righteousness of GOD).
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Here's an example of this. Notice that there is a division between the 'I' that is the righteousness of GOD that doesn't sin (one's true identity) and the 'I' that is the flesh that does sin (one's false identity that is simply ignored).

Grasp this truth and let it sink in. Come in agreement with God that you are born-again, made the righteousness of God in Christ, Jesus. You are no longer shackled to sin, but set free by God's grace. He doesn't condemn you for your sin. He loves you, and you are reconciled to Him. Forevermore. See yourself through God's eyes. VVho does God call you to be and who has He made you to be? Be just that. Its who you are. VVhen you sin you realize that isn't who you are. Your actions don't align with who you truly are. Recognizing who you are, according to God, will in part have an affect upon the amount of sin in your life. You are a saint, a child of God born-again, and dead to sin. Set free to walk in righteousness.​

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#403
#403
Stunnedbygrace said:
I think peter wants to talk about something he is trying to understand. He is wanting to have discourse about something that others seem to him to be saying that he doesn't understand what they are trying to convey. I think his motive in wanting to talk about it is to talk it through with others to understand what they MEAN when they say that they can do no good without Christ.
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if this is true, Would he be humble enough to openly discuss things. Not tell people what they believe, And even after many people try to explain to him. No Peter. We do not believe or teach this way, he would at least say, Ok Help me understand what you do believe What is it that I am missing, Because it appears to me you are saying this (which no one could argue was the wrong way a person should react) Where did I go wrong..

Instead, We get,, "Your wrong about this", "I know what you believe", "you believe this".. "I will not repent, because I have done nothing wrong"..and the highlight of his arguments, "Your mental illness".

I am sorry, I love and respect you more than many people, and I wish so deeply you were right, I would be the first to praise God, because a possible brother is changing, But Peter has shown absolutely no sign whatsoever what you say is true.
 
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Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#404
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#404
It's time for us to grow up in what Christ has already done for us. To remain spiritual babies is ok for a while but let's grow up in the Lord Jesus and be who we really are - children of our Father.

I love the scripture that says "Awake to righteousness and sin not" I did a study on the Greek word "Awake" - and it means - "to come to one's self, to sober up to who you really are."

The understanding of the new birth in Christ and that we are in fact new creatures with a new heart that has a new spirit - created in righteousness and holiness is paramount in growing in Christ.

We will remain baby Christians until we awake to who we are in Christ because of Jesus' completed work. We need to be establish in the word of righteousness in order to grow up in Christ. Hebrews says that they who are not accustomed to the word of righteousness are still babes.

Immaturity keeps us from understanding righteousness; i.e., our right standing with God. Therefore, understanding righteousness is an indication of maturity.

The English word “unaccustomed” was translated from the Greek word “APEIROS,” and it means “inexperienced, i.e. ignorant”.

“The word of righteousness” is speaking about justification by faith, as opposed to trying to earn our right standing with God. Those who haven’t understood justification by grace are still babes in Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#405
#405
BenFTW said:
Self congratulatory. :rolleyes:
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I have read his post 5 times, to see th epointn he was trying to make,

Its not there. Again, Who is he talking to? its like they make things up.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#406
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#406
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Here's an example of this. Notice that there is a division between the 'I' that is the righteousness of GOD that doesn't sin (one's true identity) and the 'I' that is the flesh that does sin (one's false identity that is simply ignored).
Grasp this truth and let it sink in. Come in agreement with God that you are born-again, made the righteousness of God in Christ, Jesus. You are no longer shackled to sin, but set free by God's grace. He doesn't condemn you for your sin. He loves you, and you are reconciled to Him. Forevermore. See yourself through God's eyes. VVho does God call you to be and who has He made you to be? Be just that. Its who you are. VVhen you sin you realize that isn't who you are. Your actions don't align with who you truly are. Recognizing who you are, according to God, will in part have an affect upon the amount of sin in your life. You are a saint, a child of God born-again, and dead to sin. Set free to walk in righteousness.​
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I have a hard time with understanding that wording and idea too. But in a sense, when we met God, there WAS a division made between the one who was birthed that day we met Him and the one who existed before we met Him. And the one has to decrease and the other increase. The one will die and the other will never die. I mean, I certainly don't connect deeply with how they say what they want to convey, and I don't think I will EVER be able to say I am the righteousness of God. I don't connect with the language of I AM already what I, personally, see as I am BECOMING, but I don't think the person who speaks that way is evil. I don't completely understand them, that's for sure, and I prefer having a deeper conversation and a more varied conversation than the same phrases over and over again, but they don't make me furious or make me think they're evil.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#407
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#407
eternally-gratefull said:
I have read his post 5 times, to see th epointn he was trying to make,

Its not there. Again, Who is he talking to? its like they make things up.
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It is impossible to understand what has happened to us in Christ when we became new creations in Him - when people don't believe that they are born-again yet until we have our new bodies. This is HeRose's belief so all this talk about "being righteous in Christ" would be complete nonsense to our natural minds. This means we have to "do righteous deeds" in order to "maintain" righteousness - there is absolutely no understanding of what Christ has done for us.

This is the false "gospel" that is being promoted here.

The understanding of the new creation in Christ is paramount to growing up in Him and then becoming outwardly in our behavior who we really are - sons/daughters of our Father - created in righteousness and holiness.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#408
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#408
eternally-gratefull said:
I have read his post 5 times, to see th epointn he was trying to make,

Its not there. Again, Who is he talking to? its like they make things up.
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I saw a point in his post. When he began the thread, it was with the thought that total inability is ridiculous. In his last post, he said, hmmm...maybe in a sense, I DO understand a little more what the broad concept is...maybe it means that we have total inabilty UNTIL we find the way, the light.

Yes, I really saw that in his post, but I took some time to think about what he was trying to say.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#409
#409
Stunnedbygrace said:
I saw a point in his post. When he began the thread, it was with the thought that total inability is ridiculous. In his last post, he said, hmmm...maybe in a sense, I DO understand a little more what the broad concept is...maybe it means that we have total inabilty UNTIL we find the way, the light.

Yes, I really saw that in his post, but I took some time to think about what he was trying to say.
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Here's an example of this. Notice that there is a division between the 'I' that is the righteousness of GOD that doesn't sin (one's true identity) and the 'I' that is the flesh that does sin (one's false identity that is simply ignored).
Grasp this truth and let it sink in. Come in agreement with God that you are born-again, made the righteousness of God in Christ, Jesus. You are no longer shackled to sin, but set free by God's grace. He doesn't condemn you for your sin. He loves you, and you are reconciled to Him. Forevermore. See yourself through God's eyes. VVho does God call you to be and who has He made you to be? Be just that. Its who you are. VVhen you sin you realize that isn't who you are. Your actions don't align with who you truly are. Recognizing who you are, according to God, will in part have an affect upon the amount of sin in your life. You are a saint, a child of God born-again, and dead to sin. Set free to walk in righteousness.​
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I read it again a few times,, I even quoted it in this post. to see if the words change,

I do not see what you saw..

What I saw is him mocking Bens words.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#410
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#410
Stunnedbygrace said:
I have a hard time with understanding that wording and idea too. But in a sense, when we met God, there WAS a division made between the one who was birthed that day we met Him and the one who existed before we met Him. And the one has to decrease and the other increase. The one will die and the other will never die. I mean, I certainly don't connect deeply with how they say what they want to convey, and I don't think I will EVER be able to say I am the righteousness of God. I don't connect with the language of I AM already what I, personally, see as I am BECOMING, but I don't think the person who speaks that way is evil. I don't completely understand them, that's for sure, and I prefer having a deeper conversation and a more varied conversation than the same phrases over and over again, but they don't make me furious or make me think they're evil.
Click to expand...

The truth is - if we are in Christ - in our new creation in Christ - in our spirit also called the new man - we will never be more righteous then we are right now.

We have the righteousness of God in Christ whether our unrenewed minds think it is true or not is irrelevant to what Christ has done for us when we were born again. The scriptures testify to this truth over and over again.

Sometimes we confuse righteousness with sanctification. Agreeing with what God says about us because of what Christ did for us - will change our lives dramatically and create a peaceful mind and stability within us.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#411
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#411
Stunnedbygrace said:
I saw a point in his post. When he began the thread, it was with the thought that total inability is ridiculous. In his last post, he said, hmmm...maybe in a sense, I DO understand a little more what the broad concept is...maybe it means that we have total inabilty UNTIL we find the way, the light.

Yes, I really saw that in his post, but I took some time to think about what he was trying to say.
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That's exactly what I, and I think Peter, are talking about.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#412
#412
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
That's exactly what I, and I think Peter, are talking about.
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well you did not say it in your post.

And amazingly,, Everyone else says the same thing.

So according to what you just admitted, We are ALL in agreement..
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#413
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#413
eternally-gratefull said:

if this is true, Would he be humble enough to openly discuss things. Not tell people what they believe, And even after many people try to explain to him. No Peter. We do not believe or teach this way, he would at least say, Ok Help me understand what you do believe What is it that I am missing, Because it appears to me you are saying this (which no one could argue was the wrong way a person should react) Where did I go wrong..

Instead, We get,, "Your wrong about this", "I know what you believe", "you believe this".. "I will not repent, because I have done nothing wrong"..and the highlight of his arguments, "Your mental illness".

I am sorry, I love and respect you more than many people, and I wish so deeply you were right, I would be the first to praise God, because a possible brother is changing, But Peter has shown absolutely no sign whatsoever what you say is true.
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Your way is not going to work to bring reconciliation. We have asked you to stop insisting on this way that isn't working. You will not be able to get peter to do what you desire him to do. Haven't you seen that yet, EG? So you must conceive of a different way to reconciliation unless you want to continue to make everyone miserable who desires to talk with peter and understand what he thinks, what he MEANS,and how he has arrived at what he thinks.

In a sense, EG, you are walking completely different from Jesus, but you can't see it.
Jesus humbled Himself, even though we were in the wrong, to pave the way to reconciliation. He did not insist we change first to make reconciliation happen. He humbled Himself WHILE we were His enemies. Don't you see that the way to the kind of reconciliation that God wants requires that WE are the ones who do the humbling of self? EVEN if we are not in the wrong?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#415
#415
Stunnedbygrace said:
Your way is not going to work to bring reconciliation. We have asked you to stop insisting on this way that isn't working. You will not be able to get peter to do what you desire him to do. Haven't you seen that yet, EG? So you must conceive of a different way to reconciliation unless you want to continue to make everyone miserable who desires to talk with peter and understand what he thinks, what he MEANS,and how he has arrived at what he thinks.

In a sense, EG, you are walking completely different from Jesus, but you can't see it.
Jesus humbled Himself, even though we were in the wrong, to pave the way to reconciliation. He did not insist we change first to make reconciliation happen. He humbled Himself WHILE we were His enemies. Don't you see that the way to the kind of reconciliation that God wants requires that WE are the ones who do the humbling of self? EVEN if we are not in the wrong?
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Allowing a man to continue in sin has never worked..

You two are not the first two people who tried to settle this in a calm cool collected way

I am just going to continue to expose when he says people believe things they do not.. If everyone else would do the same, Maybe just maybe, he will see what he is doing

But it will not stop me from doing it..

If he, or anyon else says, So and so believes this, And they do not. I am going to point that out to them, Your mistaking, they did not say this, they do not believe that..
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#417
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#417
eternally-gratefull said:

Allowing a man to continue in sin has never worked..

You two are not the first two people who tried to settle this in a calm cool collected way

I am just going to continue to expose when he says people believe things they do not.. If everyone else would do the same, Maybe just maybe, he will see what he is doing

But it will not stop me from doing it..

If he, or anyon else says, So and so believes this, And they do not. I am going to point that out to them, Your mistaking, they did not say this, they do not believe that..
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I can't speak for anyone else but I will definitely not follow you into your folly.
Ariel has asked you to stop also.
If you cannot even humble yourself to the wishes of two sisters you love, why would you expect peter to humble himself to you?
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#419
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#419
Grace777x70 said:
The truth is - if we are in Christ - in our new creation in Christ - in our spirit also called the new man - we will never be more righteous then we are right now.

We have the righteousness of God in Christ whether our unrenewed minds think it is true or not is irrelevant to what Christ has done for us when we were born again. The scriptures testify to this truth over and over again.

Sometimes we confuse righteousness with sanctification. Agreeing with what God says about us because of what Christ did for us - will change our lives dramatically and create a peaceful mind and stability within us.
Click to expand...
I THINK I have not confused righteousness with holiness...
They both come by faith, the one immediately, the one a process.
I do make a distinction in my mind between them.
The first one, righteousness, He gives to me to do away with my fear of death.
The second one then begins to be able to come about BECAUSE of this great mercy.

I might view righteousness a little differently than you...
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#420
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#420
A small comment

"Everyone else says the same thing."

Too many times this is exactly 100% not true. You only find out what people believe
by going through the points and then seeing how they respond.

Now Ben from his writing 100% disagrees.

BenFTW Re: The Holy Spirit convicts of sin #308


"As has been said in the past, if anyone here has found out the secret to living sinless in the here and now, ever single Christian here is all ears. They want to be set free from sin, they want to walk in complete victory. To live a year without sin, or even a month (some would argue a day) would be amazing. If someone here is walking sinless, every moment of every single day in their own actions, thoughts, and deeds, they have a moral obligation to share their secret. Unfortunately, those that think they do are walking in denial."

Many calvanists would also disagree as it is part of the doctrine of faith.

Now I am happy when people declare their personal position, or state anothers declared position.
 
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