ROMANS, CHAPTER 8

[PilgrimPassingThru]

my 1984 NIV has it, but has a space first and a big note about how it is probably a later addition. i think i remember reading somewhere that it is believed to be a true account - not made up - that had been passed around throughout the churches and was eventually inserted there, fairly early on, actually, but probably wasn't actually written in the original gospel.

Hey thanks PH!

Yeah, my supposedly "evil" KJV has it too

But if you ever find a bible without it let me know, cause I wanna to make sure I have a copy of "the purest and most unadulterated words" out there so when folks start dissing translations I can join in tell em' I too have "THE Fonz" of all the translations (ya losers!). And to know what it is like to sit on a high horse and say so (kidding, but not really)

 

[God4me]

John 3:8 says the "wind' goes where it listeth.
after that we are to press on for that upward call in CHRIST, laying hold of HIM who TOOK HOLD OF US...

Please note the words, "Lay hold of", we have our part to do.

 

[fredoheaven]

fred, say you want to translate the scripture into spanish?
what's the first thing you do -- grab the kjv and a spanish-english dictionary?
or go for some hebrew & greek manuscripts?

case closed.

Yap "case closed" because i am not a translator but a simple bible believer and I am not Spanish speaking guy. KJV is enough for me.

Thanks...

 

[God4me]

Please note the words, "Lay hold of", we have our part to do.

um, it's in verse 4. it's not a "deleted thought."

HRFTD is correct; this is very likely a copying error.

and there in verse 4 -- it says "us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit"

it's not presenting a "choice" -- it's stating a reality about all those who have believed & placed their hope in Christ. see chapter 7 ((what the "therefore" is there for)). i find a new law within me that is contrary to the flesh. how well do i walk after it? how much do i stumble? how far along am i? those questions don't change the reality: that the spirit gives life, and the flesh profits nothing.

Rom 8: 1, clearly is a choice, those carnal Christians don't receive or enjoy the blessings, Acts 20: 32.

 

[God4me]

Please note the words, "Lay hold of", we have our part to do.

actually, we need to co-operate with the Holy Spirit

passivity leads to deception

we are to be active in our pursuit of the truth and that includes renewing our minds with the word of God

when we renew our minds, we align ourselves with God's thoughts on a matter

this is not a simple matter as can be seen from the many threads wherein disagreement is the main subject and self-righteousness the apparent goal

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Phil 2:12

this does not mean we save ourselves of course, but it really is up to us how much of God's salvation we appropriate

the work of Jesus on the cross is a completed work. we cannot add to it but it seems many try to subtract from it

we need to APPROPRIATE it and believe that God has actually done everything for us. we need to believe it and act on it in faith and not allow the devil to condemn us or make us unsure of our salvation which, we did nothing to earn in the first place

Jesus did'nt finish the work for salvation, on the cross, He still had to go to hell, Act's 2: 27, and be raised up, 1 Cor 15: 17--20.
Rom 4: 25.

 

[God4me]

Please note the words, "Lay hold of", we have our part to do.

but we "are being built" by Him.

you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
(1 Peter 2:5)


​

And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
(Ephesians 2:22)​

is that my own work? how is this reconciled with Jude?

God is only able to keep me from stumbling if i keep myself from stumbling? He is faithful to complete the work He began only if i am faithful to complete the work He began?
He is the Creator of my feet only in the sense that He produced a bag of lego foot-parts and it's on me to put them together?
surely not lol. He made my hands and my eyes and my comprehension also. all things that are necessary to do any work are from Him, and all the work is Him living, working and willing in me -- every bit of this is His mercy.

keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
(Jude 1:21)​

how do i "keep myself" ?
bearing in mind that He is the One who is able to keep me?

by believing and clinging to Him, and enduring in that sure hope, the Anchor of my soul . . yes?
but even when i am faithless, He is faithful -- when i lose my grip i fall into His hand!
i love Him ♥
He is the Living Mercy of God, enduring forever!!

We have to let God do a work in us, and we have to build ourselves up.

 

[God4me]

Please note the words, "Lay hold of", we have our part to do.

Condemnation?

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

1 John 3:20 For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

Romans 8:34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

A little deeper dive in Romans 8...

Romans 8:1

1There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life has set you[SUP][b][/SUP] free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,[SUP][c][/SUP] he condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

If you stop here you'll miss where Paul is going...

[SUP] 9[/SUP]You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.


You're not in the flesh, but in the Spirit - IF IN FACT the Spirit of God dwells in you.

Does the Spirit of God dwell in you? If not, you don't belong to Him.

C.

You know very well that not all Christians aren't in the Spirit, but the are living in the flesh.
That's why their legal rights aren't being fulfilled in them Rom 8: 4.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

the gospels say that Jesus did many other things that aren't written down. way too many to be written down. i don't doubt that this is a true story at all, and the image of Him stooping & writing in the dust, ignoring them while they are trying to get a reaction from Him and trap Him with His words is one of my favorite of Him!

Oops, you edited that last part in I missed this.

Here is the thing though, every thing that makes it in (not in the earlier manuscripts) would not need to be questioned so much at all if its just "a given" such things can be allowed simply because it is written that there are many other things he "did", which is taken to mean "said" on the account huh? And especially if we like it (which there? is not always the case) I mean, how often have we seen someone quote "I condemn thee not" (and snip it) there only casually sweep that end part under the bus by editing out "the go and sin no more"? lol

And quite a few RCer's use that "many other things Jesus did" verse to further justify the additional doctrines most protestants have an issue with. All the while I argue for the "did part" (over the implied "said" part) as they use that as a part of justifying that also (which is not written) but would take up. Whereas you have found you like that verse which is in there (but supposedly not really in there at all) and would seek to use the passage some RCers love to further justify their own additional doctrines (taking did as said to do it) and agreeing to the one is like biting yourself in the butt (when they get wind of it) really, just to say, "well you prots have done it... for example... they might say (and go there). And that would be if it really isnt there and we would so allow for it and simply because of that one verse about the many other things. On that point (if ever a debate break out on it) and this was taken into an account it wouldnt provide much of a leg to stand on against the others argument (to let it go) but if we did (for that reason) I cant see how it wouldnt also grant to them the same permissions in their own justification for their entire doctrines (which are typically argued through the big "T" "Traditions"). The other just helps to prop it up (in their mind) as I am understanding it.

Peace PH, God bless you

 

[Cee]

You know very well that not all Christians aren't in the Spirit, but the are living in the flesh.
That's why their legal rights aren't being fulfilled in them Rom 8: 4.

Actually I believe Scripture. Not your theories.

 

[God4me]

Actually I believe Scripture. Not your theories.

No.. NO.. You present only half truths of the Bible, I can give you lots of scriptures that you have to throw out of the Bible, because of your deceiving teachings.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

We are not in the flesh if so be the Spirit of God is in us, and this is a true spiritual truth, even though we might be in the flesh after a carnal truth (in these bodies) we are just not to live according to the flesh, or after the flesh

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[Cee]

No.. NO.. You present only half truths of the Bible, I can give you lots of scriptures that you have to throw out of the Bible, because of your deceiving teachings.

Please do. I'm not worried about it. I know the Truth. And I actually believe it.

Starting with this one:

9You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

C.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Yeah, its "through the Spirit" we are to put to death the deeds of the body, so you would have to have the Spirit in order to do something through it.

 

[God4me]

Actually I believe Scripture. Not your theories.

They are not my theories,
Rom 8: 1 is the only time that "Condemnation", Adds, "No divide or separating" to it. Apart from Rom 5: 16, where because of sin, everyone was divided and separated from God and His blessings.
So Rom 8: 1 says there is no Condemnation, dividing or separating from God and His blessings, to them who are in Christ,
THOSE WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

And we know that not every Christians are walking in the Spirit, see v 5--8, That's one reason why they get sick and miss out on God's blessings.
The Greek for, "The righteousness of the law", in Rom 8: 4, Means, Our legal rights.
And the legal rights are for those who walk after the Spirit, But sad to say, to many Christians are walking after the flesh.
Some of our legal rights are found in Rom 8.
V11, The Holy Spirit will keep our flesh healthy and alive, Yet Christians get sick and die.
V14, &v 16, The mature Christians will discern the voice of the Spirit and be led by Him.
V17, Heirs and joint-heirs with Jesus, [Heirs to our legal rights and our inheritance, Acts 20: 32].
Please note, Acts 20: 32, "AMONG THEM WHO ARE SANCTIFIED".
Rom 8: 25--28, The Spirit intercedes for us so all things will work for our good. Also v34.
V31 Nothing can have an effect on those who are walking in the Spirit.
V32 Because God spared not Him own Son [Jesus], How much more will He freely give us ALL THINGS.
V37 We are more than conquerors, through Christ.
Vs 35, 38--39, Nothing can separate us, [Divide or separate] from these blessings.
But these blessings are for those who walk in the Spirit, Not for those who are walking in the carnal flesh,
As the carnal mind is enmity, Greek,[Echthra, from Echthros, Enemy], So those who walk after the flesh, are enimies of God and are divided from Him and His blessings.

We HAVE to present the whole truth, Not just part truths as the false grace teachers teach.

 

[God4me]

Please do. I'm not worried about it. I know the Truth. And I actually believe it.

Starting with this one:

9You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

C.

You know that not every Christian is in the Spirit, and if you don't, where have you been for the last few decades.

 

[God4me]

We are not in the flesh if so be the Spirit of God is in us, and this is a true spiritual truth, even though we might be in the flesh after a carnal truth (in these bodies) we are just not to live according to the flesh, or after the flesh

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Please note the word, "IF", a small word with a big meaning.
The false grace teachers overlook the "IF'S" of the Bible.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Please note the word, "IF", a small word with a big meaning.
The false grace teachers overlook the "IF'S" of the Bible.

I underlined it, I do see it. I dont even know what everyones doctrines are as there are just too many to keep tabs.

Good-nite to all, my pillow is chanting my name

 

[Cee]

You're right not all do walk in the Spirit, but you said not all are In the Spirit.

And that's a big difference. I think we are on the same page here then.

Yes, we are all IN the Spirit, but we don't all walk in the Spirit, that's where renewing of the mind comes into play, which is understanding who we are in Christ (or in the Spirit). Which is the fact we are one with Him as your signature stated. And that His ways are written on our heart and mind. The REASON why Christians don't walk after the Spirit is because they don't know they are even IN the Spirit, which is why I highlighted this Scripture to you in the first place.

C.

 

[God4me]

You're right not all do walk in the Spirit, but you said not all are In the Spirit.

And that's a big difference. I think we are on the same page here then.

Yes, we are all IN the Spirit, but we don't all walk in the Spirit, that's where renewing of the mind comes into play, which is understanding who we are in Christ (or in the Spirit). Which is the fact we are one with Him as your signature stated. And that His ways are written on our heart and mind. The REASON why Christians don't walk after the Spirit is because they don't know they are even IN the Spirit, which is why I highlighted this Scripture to you in the first place.

C.

Mankind is Spirit soul and body, and only the spirit is saved, [Born again], The soul, [Mind will and emotions] are to be renewed Rom 12: 2. The body is still waiting redemption, Rom 8: 23.
We are [and should] present our bodies, a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God. Rom 12: 1.
Our soul, [Mind] are the most powerful part of our makeup, and if we chose to walk in the Spirit, then we have the blessings, But if we chose to walk in the flesh, we can miss out of the blessings.
So we can be either in the flesh, or in the spirit.
Just because the Spirit of God is in us, it doesn't mean we are in the Spirit, as we can be in the flesh at times.

 

[Cee]

We are in the Spirit, but we need to obey the Spirit of God.

Scripture is clear we are in the Spirit if we belong to Christ.

It is also clear that we need to be led by the Spirit to be sons of God.

Yes we are 3 parts, yes our souls need to be renewed. So I'm in total agreement with you there.

C.