Let's Take a Deeper Look at this Hyper Stuff

[Cee]

Thank you brother, you preach Christ with your humility.

1 Peter 5:4And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. 5Young men, in the same way, submit yourselves to your elders. And all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

Humbleness leads us to greater grace.

Bless you bro.

I want to be careful in how I write this, and make sure that people understand I am not trying to take a side. Simply, realize that while Angela has been a bit on the warpath we should acknowledge that it is in sincerity and with genuine concern for the believer. She cares for people and doesn't want them to get stuck and harmed by a doctrine that in her own opinion is dangerous. So she is passionate for the defense of those hurting, and doesn't want people to suffer.

VVith this in mind, answer in grace and with meekness. I myself was rather forward in coming to the defense of a fellow believer and that has been resolved privately. She does realize she has acted contrary to certain forum etiquette, but is steadfast in protecting what she believes to be the truth and to not allow people to get into a doctrine she perceives to be harmful. So again, this in mind, we need to come to a mutual understanding of where this perceived danger is located (within the doctrine) and how to resolve this misunderstanding, if it is one.

I apologize to anyone that was surprised by my forward response, in defense of a fellow believer. I should have handled that a little better. Now, lets move on to understanding.

 

[Cee]

Freedom is scary, if we don't completely comprehend the transformative power of His grace.

Here's Paul correcting people in sin:

11And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 12“All things are lawful for me,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful for me,” but I will not be dominated by anything.

His focus: Sure, you can do all things, but why would you? Unless you've forgotten who you are in Christ.

 

[LaurenTM]

21But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP]h[/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[SUP]i[/SUP] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3: 20-24


God extends grace to demonstrate His righteousness

No one is righteous apart from God. He extends grace, we accept grace, we are made righteous

This justification is free...we cannot return it and we cannot manufacture it.

This entire exchange operates through faith

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

we have the book of Romans which teaches us that the just shall live by faith Romans 1:17

faith, is actually the unseen evidence of God as He draws us to Him.


God is or should be, the object of our faith. the appearance of Jesus in the timeline of this earth as a physical person, is the fulfillment of the promise of God made as He ejected A & E from the garden

Jesus is the One who has crushed the serpent's head (the devil)

Romans 1 indicates that those who repress the truth of God are turned over to their sin and ever increasing sin and final rejection by God

Romans 1:19 makes plain that God has not hidden Himself...God has planted within the inner consciousness, or soul, of mankind, the knowledge that He does in fact exist; continuing in v.20, God's invisible nature and all that He is, have been made plain by the very things He has created


I conclude that there is no excuse for sin according to Romans

there is no option or escape clause that I can identify that is in any way assured through acceptance of God's Son as appropriation for the sin of anyone at all

I could listen to someone tell me that I am free to sin all day long and I would not believe them because 1) I have a conscience that is not seared over; I have renewed and I am renewing my mind...not in church but with the Bible as the Bible instructs us to do and 2) I have a relationship with God that is between the 2 of us and I do not depend on anyone else to be a mediator between Him and myself. I have a mediator and that is Jesus Christ. He has made the way of peace for me.

I conclude, as I did in my op, that sin is the result of following people rather than God.

There are many false doctrines in the world today.

God actually states that a person is under a curse if they depend on the arm of man rather than depend on and put their trust in God

Thus says the LORD, "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

This is not a revoked curse.

People know when they are sinning. The Bible says that people are drawn away and enticed by their own sin.

I see a pattern there. Call sin what it is. God does not accept the error of doctrine as an excuse for sin.

I have learned some very difficult lessons because I did not know what scripture actually taught. At no time, did I think it was ok to sin however.

I would actually have alot more to say, but nobody likes overlong posts

 

[WarriorForChrist]

Jesus Loves Every Single One of You on this thread.

 

[UnderGrace]

There are many false doctrines in the world today.

God actually states that a person is under a curse if they depend on the arm of man rather than depend on and put their trust in God

Thus says the LORD, "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

This is not a revoked curse.

People know when they are sinning. The Bible says that people are drawn away and enticed by their own sin.

I see a pattern there. Call sin what it is. God does not accept the error of doctrine as an excuse for sin.

LaurenTM, sadly there are many false doctrines, people like them they sound good, they are uplifting, powerful, but that is not the only part of doctrine and truth.

I do promote and believe in abounding grace and God's love. Unfortunately we still have to proceed with caution always.
We lambast anyone who preaches the law yet we fail to realize that Satan can also preach love. He has all the bases covered.

It reminds me of the overused expression, "There are many ways to fall, but only one way to stand up straight" (G. K. Chesterton) Jesus is more than able to meet all our needs, no other.

I do think your post brings a very balanced approach. Thank you.

 

[God4me]

What we declare ourselves is irrelevant. God in His grace accounts us as righteous in Christ even while we are still ungodly. We are thus righteous for ever in His sight (rom 3.24-25; 4.5),

whom God has cleansed call not thou common,





God has declared no such thing, you are imagining it.



we forget nothing. where God's grace is concerned there is no 'our part'. It is all of compassion and mercy, you presume upon God. He saves unto the uttermost those who come to God by Jesus Christ.

God declares us healed, victorious, and blessed with abundant life, but some Christians declare they are sick, defeated and live below what God has planned for us.
When we sin, we are in a state of unrighteousness, until we confess and repent, Then we are forgiven, cleansed and restored back to righteousness.
God said when we sin, we are unrighteous, until we confess and repent, so we have to agree with God and say the same as God, and therefore declaring ourselves unrighteous.

Forget what JP says, when he said when he sins he is blessed because God isn't counting his sins against him.

 

[Vigil]

This is actually the first I've heard of this, who started this "movement"?

 

[Grace777x70]

This is actually the first I've heard of this, who started this "movement"?

The Lord Jesus Christ died and bled so that we could experience His abundant grace and love for us and Paul explained it. These two started it along with the other apostles but Paul had the greatest revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

 

[Vigil]

The Lord Jesus Christ died and bled so that we could experience His abundant grace and love for us and Paul explained it. These two started it along with the other apostles but Paul had the greatest revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

But Jesus tells us to "sin no more" and to flee from it and not to live sinful lives. Sinning freely and not even trying to live by Gods will while going "Jesus will save me!" doesn't seem right. I know people like that, and they have caused a lot of problems for people I know.

Yes no one deserves salvation, and we are saved by grace. But that isn't the same as God telling us we can just go nuts and do whatever we want and hell be okay with it.

 

[God4me]

I imagine you are speaking of JP when you say "one well known.....??

I have almost all of his books inside my computer. And I can instantly post the precise quote from almost any of his books. Would you please cite the book titles and page numbers for what you claim above?

I have no doubt you believe you heard that. We all tend to hear what we expect to hear when we selectively read through prejudiced lenses. But, I am specifically and pointedly asking for his book titles and page numbers so I can see for myself.

That isn't too difficult for you to provide, is it.

I saw the hyper grace teacher say those things on the TV, and I saw the whole messages, so I haven't taken it out of context.
This same man said, "The only thing we need to go up in the rapture, is to be alive on earth at the time, Then he said,
"We don't have to be faithful or holy, Just here at the time.

His latest, is, We don't sin and we don't have our part to play, accept to receive righteousness.

I am a Jesus given Eph 4: 11. and a God set in the Church, 1 Cor 12: 28, Bible Teacher, So I listen carefully to see what people say, and how it compares with the scriptures. So I know when people are right, or wrong.

 

[Vigil]

But Jesus tells us to "sin no more" and to flee from it and not to live sinful lives. Sinning freely and not even trying to live by Gods will while going "Jesus will save me!" doesn't seem right. I know people like that, and they have caused a lot of problems for people I know.

Yes no one deserves salvation, and we are saved by grace. But that isn't the same as God telling us we can just go nuts and do whatever we want and hell be okay with it.

Who is teaching hyper-grace?

 

[FreeNChrist]

But Jesus tells us to "sin no more" and to flee from it and not to live sinful lives. Sinning freely and not even trying to live by Gods will while going "Jesus will save me!" doesn't seem right. I know people like that, and they have caused a lot of problems for people I know.

Yes no one deserves salvation, and we are saved by grace. But that isn't the same as God telling us we can just go nuts and do whatever we want and hell be okay with it.

Here we go again....

 

[Grace777x70]

But Jesus tells us to "sin no more" and to flee from it and not to live sinful lives. Sinning freely and not even trying to live by Gods will while going "Jesus will save me!" doesn't seem right. I know people like that, and they have caused a lot of problems for people I know.

Yes no one deserves salvation, and we are saved by grace. But that isn't the same as God telling us we can just go nuts and do whatever we want and hell be okay with it.

who says we can go nuts and do whatever we want?....Where did you get that thought from? You could benefit from reading the whole thread as you are starting off with the wrong premise.

 

[Vigil]

who says we can go nuts and do whatever we want?....Where did you get that thought from? You could benefit from reading the whole thread as you are starting off with the wrong premise.

The very first post in this thread is where I got the premise and by trying to understand the "philosophy" or interpretation that is central to the hypergrace teaching. Maybe I got it wrong, but from what I read, it basically says you don't need to do anything but believe to be saved by grace. Can you explain to me how I might be mistaken? I am asking sincerely, and without malice, because perhaps I do have it all wrong, but based on what I have seen in the thread, that seems to be the bottom line.

 

[Grace777x70]

I saw the hyper grace teacher say those things on the TV, and I saw the whole messages, so I haven't taken it out of context.
This same man said, "The only thing we need to go up in the rapture, is to be alive on earth at the time, Then he said,
"We don't have to be faithful or holy, Just here at the time.

His latest, is, We don't sin and we don't have our part to play, accept to receive righteousness.

I am a Jesus given Eph 4: 11. and a God set in the Church, 1 Cor 12: 28, Bible Teacher, So I listen carefully to see what people say, and how it compares with the scriptures. So I know when people are right, or wrong.

Forgive us but with a track record of certain people constantly "applying" what they "think" they heard... and when we go look at it - it is not what the original people were really saying.

If you can provide a quote from a reputable source then we can see what was really said. Then we can discuss it intelligently and within it's proper context things were said too.

 

[Grace777x70]

The very first post in this thread is where I got the premise and by trying to understand the "philosophy" or interpretation that is central to the hypergrace teaching. Maybe I got it wrong, but from what I read, it basically says you don't need to do anything but believe to be saved by grace. Can you explain to me how I might be mistaken? I am asking sincerely, and without malice, because perhaps I do have it all wrong, but based on what I have seen in the thread, that seems to be the bottom line.

The central theme to the preaching of the grace of Christ is that Christ died for all of us and He took away all the sin of the world. Now, if people believe in Him - they will receive the forgiveness of sins. That God's love and grace is boundless and relentless towards us.

Again..I suggest you read through this whole thread because on it is everything including links in some posts to further explain the gospel of the grace of Christ.

 

[Willie-T]

I saw the hyper grace teacher say those things on the TV, and I saw the whole messages, so I haven't taken it out of context.
This same man said, "The only thing we need to go up in the rapture, is to be alive on earth at the time, Then he said,
"We don't have to be faithful or holy, Just here at the time.

His latest, is, We don't sin and we don't have our part to play, accept to receive righteousness.

I am a Jesus given Eph 4: 11. and a God set in the Church, 1 Cor 12: 28, Bible Teacher, So I listen carefully to see what people say, and how it compares with the scriptures. So I know when people are right, or wrong.

Did I miss where you posted the book titles and pages? Your memory of what you think you heard doesn't cut it.... Why don't you simply listen to preachers read the Bible to you? For the same reason you needn't think you really get it when you watch some videos.

 

[LaurenTM]

LaurenTM, sadly there are many false doctrines, people like them they sound good, they are uplifting, powerful, but that is not the only part of doctrine and truth.

I do promote and believe in abounding grace and God's love. Unfortunately we still have to proceed with caution always.
We lambast anyone who preaches the law yet we fail to realize that Satan can also preach love. He has all the bases covered.

It reminds me of the overused expression, "There are many ways to fall, but only one way to stand up straight" (G. K. Chesterton) Jesus is more than able to meet all our needs, no other.

I do think your post brings a very balanced approach. Thank you.

Thank you.

I am starting to understand better what is going on.

The emphasis is being put on what is wrong instead of what is right

This, I am becoming convinced, is a ploy of the devil and many are falling for it

People obviously do not even know what is right so how are they going to be able to know what is wrong

From the responses all over this forum, it is plain to see that people do not understand grace; therefore they pick apart anything they view as a threat to their understanding as though it were an attack on the gospel itself

 

[Cee]

Hyper-grace tells us its okay to go nuts and be righteous. It's about FREEDOM. Anything that doesn't feel like freedom should be carefully inspected. Because where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom.

Of course freedom is scary to those who don't COMPLETELY comprehend and embrace the transformative power of grace. Religion is about control. Jesus came to set us free.

When religion sees a problem, it thinks we need more control.

Religion comes from fear.

The idea that people will be "mislead" when taught freedom in Christ is one of the tools of religion's armory.

But, it's that moment someone says, "Wait a minute, I don't have to follow all these rules for God to love me?"

Yet chooses to follow God anyway that we really see the power of the cross.

 

[LaurenTM]

The very first post in this thread is where I got the premise and by trying to understand the "philosophy" or interpretation that is central to the hypergrace teaching. Maybe I got it wrong, but from what I read, it basically says you don't need to do anything but believe to be saved by grace. Can you explain to me how I might be mistaken? I am asking sincerely, and without malice, because perhaps I do have it all wrong, but based on what I have seen in the thread, that seems to be the bottom line.

that is not so

I wrote the op and there is nothing in there about doing whatever you want

what you have seen in this thread?

I think you already had an idea of what you were going to say coming into this thread

I KNOW you did not get your idea from my op