Would you sacrifice your child if God asked you to?

[LaurenTM]

scripture is open to interpretation, it is undeniable. if scripture was not open to private interpretation, everybody who reads it would agree about at least the most important points. That there is more than 40 000 different denomination of christians clearly proves that scripture is open to interpretation, how else do you explain the diversity of interpretations? just check the various answers on this thread... if the bible was not open to interpretation, then people would not offer all those interpretations, that's obvious. and if the Holy spirit translates, as you say, then why does it translate different things to different people? it sounds uncannily like private interpretation to me...

First of all, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, II Peter 1:20

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, II Timothy 3:16

First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. II Peter 1:20


1) scripture is not open to interpretation...not just prophecy, but all scripture because scripture states it is INSPIRED, meaning it is not just the thoughts of men as II Timothy 3:16 states above

2) as scripture states we are not free to interpret it any way we want, the only possible conclusion is that sinful human beings have taken truth and twisted and perverted it

3) scoffing at the word of God indicates someone who is in rebellion against God, irregardless of whether or not they refer to themselves as a Christian


what is actually undeniable, is that you prefer to live as you want and will gladly argue your case before everyone; the problem is, for you and others who think as you do, God has the final say

 

[ukok102nak]

scripture interprets inself
thats why let the scripture speaks for itself
and
a private interpretation is a interpretaion of a man man made doctine
which bring confusion unto all
as they say
anything you will say will be use against you
but you dont have to remain silent when it comes to
the written words of god in the holy
as it is written
:read:
Mga Gawa: 4. 19. But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
20. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[ukok102nak]

As for calling God a liar, i think you need to read your bible more:

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets. 2 Chronicles 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people. Jeremiah 4:10

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jeremiah 20:7

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11

Just saying

:hrmm: the best answer to this is
continue to read those verses from the first written part
unto the very last part of each passage and
the truth shall set you free

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[Simeon]

So, this is how you understand these Scriptures? That they VALIDATE THAT GOD IS A LIAR?

Dude, you are ONE SICK AND MESSED UP DUDE.............(that is as nice a description as I can post here without actually telling you what I really think you are)

These passages, if you read them carefully and in context, are quite clear to the fact that God is not above deceiving and misleading. Unless you are willing to accept those passages do not belong in the bible and are not the true word of God, then your assertion that God cannot lie is false. The bible says so.

Now my original point is reinforced, the bible is open to interpretation, some passages say clearly that God doesn't lie, some others say he can lie, and so it is up to us to pick and chose the bit we prefer. If that is not being open to interpretation I don't know what is.

 

[Simeon]

"In any unbelieving argument or reasoning, you must always start with premises which need not to be proved in order for an argument to go on for either they have already been verified to be true or they are merely assumed to be true for the sake of argument" PAE

So, How do you know that you really know what you pretend to know?

you are confused, here is what i said:

and you are wrong, this conversation is making more and more sense to me, the longer it goes the more it reinforces the disturbing thought that compelled me to start this thread, that there is a lot of made up stuff masquerading as "knowledge" in christianity... that is becoming increasingly obvious to me; i haven't yet thought too much about the implications but it is disturbing..
where did i say i knew anything? where did i say i didn't believe? i'm just expressing my doubts. isn't it clear from my questions that what i'm doing is searching, is not being sure, is being confused and disturbed by questions with no clear answers?
i contest the answers i get here because they do not make sense to me, people are affirming things to me that are coming clear they have no way of knowing. i find that a problem, so i push and question, to see if something usefull comes out. so far, if you take stock, you have to admit there hasn't been a strong case made, people throw opinions and impressions and hopes to me, nothing tangible, nothing verified, nothing verifiable even. that is why i have increasing doubt.

 

[Simeon]

1) scripture is not open to interpretation...not just prophecy, but all scripture because scripture states it is INSPIRED, meaning it is not just the thoughts of men as II Timothy 3:16 states above

what I'm saying is that despite what the bible says, the fact remains that there are countless different interpretations out there. and that has to be explained.

2) as scripture states we are not free to interpret it any way we want, the only possible conclusion is that sinful human beings have taken truth and twisted and perverted it


okay, I am willing to accept that, my question is: how do we figure out who is right and who isn't?

3) scoffing at the word of God indicates someone who is in rebellion against God, irregardless of whether or not they refer to themselves as a Christian

i do not scoff at it, i find it wanting in clarity and reliability. i see so many different interpretation of its message that i can not help but wonder which interpretation is correct and why. on my own i cannot figure it out. anybody who assert having the correct message has to explain how he knows so. and if that was possibe to do, then all the other christians who genuinely want to know too would see the truth and accept it. this is not what is happening, by far. there are more than 40 000 christian denominations in the world. they ALL disagree on some point. If you can come up with th one right way to understand the bible, why don't you set them right? why don't you set me right?
I have come to think that it is because nor you nor anybody else, can assert the true word of God with any measure of authority.
that is why i say that it is undeniable that scripture is open to interpretation , no matter what you find in it to the contrary.

 

[Simeon]

Laurent, another point:

be careful of circular thinking.
what you are saying sounds a lot like:

the bible is not open to interpretation
we know that because it says so in the bible
we know it is true if it says so in the bible because the bible is not open to interpretation
therefore it is undeniable that the bible is not open to interpretation

 

[LaurenTM]

Simeon;2722392 LaurenTM;2721970

1) scripture is not open to interpretation...not just prophecy, but all scripture because scripture states it is INSPIRED, meaning it is not just the thoughts of men as II Timothy 3:16 states above

what I'm saying is that despite what the bible says, the fact remains that there are countless different interpretations out there. and that has to be explained.


well see? there's your problem right there! DESPITE what the Bible says. so, no matter what, you are still going to go off in another direction.


2) as scripture states we are not free to interpret it any way we want, the only possible conclusion is that sinful human beings have taken truth and twisted and perverted it


okay, I am willing to accept that, my question is: how do we figure out who is right and who isn't?

read and study the Bible and let it speak for itself

3) scoffing at the word of God indicates someone who is in rebellion against God, irregardless of whether or not they refer to themselves as a Christian

i do not scoff at it, i find it wanting in clarity and reliability. i see so many different interpretation of its message that i can not help but wonder which interpretation is correct and why. on my own i cannot figure it out. anybody who assert having the correct message has to explain how he knows so. and if that was possibe to do, then all the other christians who genuinely want to know too would see the truth and accept it. this is not what is happening, by far. there are more than 40 000 christian denominations in the world. they ALL disagree on some point. If you can come up with th one right way to understand the bible, why don't you set them right? why don't you set me right?
I have come to think that it is because nor you nor anybody else, can assert the true word of God with any measure of authority.
that is why i say that it is undeniable that scripture is open to interpretation , no matter what you find in it to the contrary.


why don't I set you right? LOL! come on now...that's a childish game there...

who's gonna set ME right? why would you think I can set you right?

what you are doing here, is trying to put the onus for your own unbelief on someone else. doesn't work

 

[LaurenTM]

Laurent, another point:

be careful of circular thinking.
what you are saying sounds a lot like:

the bible is not open to interpretation
we know that because it says so in the bible
we know it is true if it says so in the bible because the bible is not open to interpretation
therefore it is undeniable that the bible is not open to interpretation

I think you are here to validate your own circles and it will not matter what anyone says or how they respond

you cannot call yourself a Christian and then in the next breath state that scripture is not valid

you say it is not valid when you take away all of its authority and give it any meaning that suits you

you say you believe, but in actuality you are full of doubt

 

[psalm6819]

These passages, if you read them carefully and in context, are quite clear to the fact that God is not above deceiving and misleading. Unless you are willing to accept those passages do not belong in the bible and are not the true word of God, then your assertion that God cannot lie is false. The bible says so.

Now my original point is reinforced, the bible is open to interpretation, some passages say clearly that God doesn't lie, some others say he can lie, and so it is up to us to pick and chose the bit we prefer. If that is not being open to interpretation I don't know what is.

what bible are you reading??????????????

 

[Depleted]

what bible are you reading??????????????

The Vegetable Gardener's Bible?

 

[Simeon]

what bible are you reading??????????????

King james version i believe:

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets. 2 Chronicles 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people. Jeremiah 4:10

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jeremiah 20:7

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11

 

[Simeon]

you say you believe, but in actuality you are full of doubt

i don't see a contradiction there. And yes, I am full of doubt, why would I ask questions otherwise?
but what I'm looking for is answers, not being told I'm foolish for asking.

 

[Simeon]

Simeon;2722392 LaurenTM;2721970

1) scripture is not open to interpretation...not just prophecy, but all scripture because scripture states it is INSPIRED, meaning it is not just the thoughts of men as II Timothy 3:16 states above

what I'm saying is that despite what the bible says, the fact remains that there are countless different interpretations out there. and that has to be explained.


well see? there's your problem right there! DESPITE what the Bible says. so, no matter what, you are still going to go off in another direction.


2) as scripture states we are not free to interpret it any way we want, the only possible conclusion is that sinful human beings have taken truth and twisted and perverted it


okay, I am willing to accept that, my question is: how do we figure out who is right and who isn't?

read and study the Bible and let it speak for itself

3) scoffing at the word of God indicates someone who is in rebellion against God, irregardless of whether or not they refer to themselves as a Christian

i do not scoff at it, i find it wanting in clarity and reliability. i see so many different interpretation of its message that i can not help but wonder which interpretation is correct and why. on my own i cannot figure it out. anybody who assert having the correct message has to explain how he knows so. and if that was possibe to do, then all the other christians who genuinely want to know too would see the truth and accept it. this is not what is happening, by far. there are more than 40 000 christian denominations in the world. they ALL disagree on some point. If you can come up with th one right way to understand the bible, why don't you set them right? why don't you set me right?
I have come to think that it is because nor you nor anybody else, can assert the true word of God with any measure of authority.
that is why i say that it is undeniable that scripture is open to interpretation , no matter what you find in it to the contrary.


why don't I set you right? LOL! come on now...that's a childish game there...

who's gonna set ME right? why would you think I can set you right?

what you are doing here, is trying to put the onus for your own unbelief on someone else. doesn't work

the bible doesn't help when it says contradictory things. can God deceive a prophet or not? one part of the bible says God cannot Lie, another parts says :
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. Ezekiel 14:9

so can he or not? how do i find out? not by reading the bible obviously, it says two contradictory things. How do i know which one is right? they can't both be!

 

[ukok102nak]

:8) as it is written
:read:
Juan: 20. 27. Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

~;> so as it is written
:read:
Awit: 22. 16. For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19. But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20. Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21. Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22. I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[Simeon]

And that's it? Everybody shies away from my questions...

 

[fredoheaven]

And that's it? Everybody shies away from my questions...

Because you don't ask sincere questions, only a pre-conceive ideas. Want the truth?

See 1 John 5:7; Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21

 

[Simeon]

Yes I want the truth.
What is a sincere question according to you?

My questions are sincere.
My most sincere question is: given that the bible is demonstrably open to interpretation, how can we determine which interpretation is correct?
That seems to me not only a legitimate question but a very important one too.

 

[fredoheaven]

Yes, you wanted the truth and what you wanted to know this time is how to determine which interpretation is correct. Since the bible can be interpreted by anyone as you are saying in the sense like you were doing and others were doing and I am doing. Everybody has its own right to give his opinion or interpretation but there must be a real interpretation. Exactly, the bible interprets its own and that is the best interpretation. Given the reasonable idea that scriptures is open to interpretation in this sense, still the scriptures speaks of “private interpretation” meaning only those who have faith in the Book and the Holy Spirit guiding them are the one giving the right interpretation. It starts with believing the Book, the Bible. This is related to the “logic of faith.” The logic of faith is that you must first believe in the Book.

Varieties of interpretations among real Christians exist yet they may still the same. One maybe is looking in a “box” the breadth, others see it, its length, while some, the depth and still others the height yet they are looking at the same “box” of scriptures. So there’s seems to be some contradictions but that’s not all, they are looking the same figure. But of course, the right interpretation is the one who sees all sides of the box.

Hope this helps and I believe others will be there to help you…


Ephesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

 

[fredoheaven]

Want the truth?

See 1 John 5:7; Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21

I hope you will be able to find truth in this particular passages of scriptures...Read it! Believe it and you will find it!