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There is a lot more to prophecy then telling of future events. New Covenant prophecy is different from Old Testament prophecy.
Biblical New Covenant simple prophecy ( which has nothing to do with forth-telling ) is shown in 1 Cor 14:3. It has to do with comforting and exhorting the saints in order to build them up in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 14:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
Biblical New Covenant simple prophecy ( which has nothing to do with forth-telling ) is shown in 1 Cor 14:3. It has to do with comforting and exhorting the saints in order to build them up in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 14:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.
U
Hebrews 2:4 teaches the God gives gifts according to His own will not according to our seeking
".....gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will." Hebrews 2:4.
1 Cor. 12:8-11 lists 9 gifts, the last being tongues and interpretation of tongues:
Tongues were spoken on 3 occasions in Acts (2:4; 10:46; 19:6), on none of these occasions are the recipients seeking, waiting or expecting to speak in tongues. At Pentecost, only the Apostles (12) spoke in tongues, but all who were saved (3000) received the Holy Spirit (2:38,39).
1 Corinthians 12:31 "Covet earnestly the best gifts"; tongues are not the best gifts, but one of the least gifts (14:1).
Spiritual gifts could be desired (14:1) but not claimed in faith as a birthright.
There is no command to seek them.
".....gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will." Hebrews 2:4.
1 Cor. 12:8-11 lists 9 gifts, the last being tongues and interpretation of tongues:
Tongues were spoken on 3 occasions in Acts (2:4; 10:46; 19:6), on none of these occasions are the recipients seeking, waiting or expecting to speak in tongues. At Pentecost, only the Apostles (12) spoke in tongues, but all who were saved (3000) received the Holy Spirit (2:38,39).
1 Corinthians 12:31 "Covet earnestly the best gifts"; tongues are not the best gifts, but one of the least gifts (14:1).
Spiritual gifts could be desired (14:1) but not claimed in faith as a birthright.
There is no command to seek them.
U
Well that is not what Hebrews 2:4 states, it says He distributes according to His will, not according to our seeking. I see no place in scripture where each person is assured to receive the gift of speaking in tongues ( a language).
According to what Paul is teaching the only appropriate place for this to occur, since tongues is speaking in a foreign language,
is when A (who is saved) meets B (who is unsaved and foreign), and B hears the Gospel from A in his own language. But, as he speaks, A has no idea what he is saying. Yet, B hears what he says, perfectly! Afterwards, A will not know what he said, unless B translates through another person who is present and who speaks both languages!
That this may still happen, that is up to God, however the need for this has dramatically decreased since the times of the apostles.
If however you redefine tongues as a private prayer language, then I would say you are adding to scripture something that is not there.
According to what Paul is teaching the only appropriate place for this to occur, since tongues is speaking in a foreign language,
is when A (who is saved) meets B (who is unsaved and foreign), and B hears the Gospel from A in his own language. But, as he speaks, A has no idea what he is saying. Yet, B hears what he says, perfectly! Afterwards, A will not know what he said, unless B translates through another person who is present and who speaks both languages!
That this may still happen, that is up to God, however the need for this has dramatically decreased since the times of the apostles.
If however you redefine tongues as a private prayer language, then I would say you are adding to scripture something that is not there.
1 Corinthians 14:39
39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
That the gifts can be sought means that He is willing to distribute to the one seeking.
39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
That the gifts can be sought means that He is willing to distribute to the one seeking.
L
I can only go by what I've read in the Bible and experienced along the way about the tongues issue. When it comes to such things like speaking in tongues the Lord knew I was not sure if it was even of Him.
There are always a bunch of different people telling us different things all along our way in the Christian life. They will have all the verses that support their side. They will have theological teachings and well known respected Christians who also do or don't do. There are a ton of people who do not speak in tongues just like there are a ton who do. There are some who are healed and some who are not. I could go on and on about different subjects and those who are and those who are not.
If you have never been exposed to such teaching and believe that tongues ceased when the Bible was completed., you already believe you doing the "Biblical" thing. So you don't even investigate the question of tongues. No one in your church does it and your pastor doesn't even talk about it or believe it. There is no judgment attached to not seeking a gift you didn't even know was yours. There is a lack yes., but not judgment. There is no judgment either way in Christ. Grace covers so many things.
Also, we can't repent (change our minds) about something if we have not been thoroughly convinced in our own minds. We don't want to do something because of fear or of being like everyone else or not being like everyone else or out of doubt. And the Holy Spirit will bring us to the right motivation for sure as we are asking Him to open the truth of this issue pro or con.
The Good Shepherd leads us through each step of the way and when we are ready we learn the next step. And because of His grace we are able to learn and given room to learn. No matter how we look at it., we will ALWAYS be sheep in need of a Shepherd. Many people are still not convinced of that. Many still think they are in charge of their lives and based on all their choices they will stand or fall. And you and I know that is just not true. For sure if we are seeking He will show us the answer.
Roger is correct Biblically. The evidence of the cloven tongue per Acts 2 is that everyone present heard in the very dialect of their home language of birth. God knows... how we speak and hear.
Furthermore, those who claim one must speak the gibberish tongue to prove they have The Holy Spirit are speaking from the devil, because God's Word declares that The Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts severally as He wills.
So you guys really... need this lesson again from Apostle Paul...
1 Cor 12:3-14
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
According to Paul there, only one with The Holy Spirit can claim that Jesus Christ is Lord!
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
The spiritual gifts are like administrations, and have diversities of operations. That means the cloven tongue of Pentecost is only ONE of these several administrations!!!
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
That idea, "dividing to every man severally as He will", means The Holy Spirit gives an administration to each believer according to His will. That means not all believers receive all of them, but only the administration He calls for each person.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
KJV
1 Cor 12:28-31
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Notice with "diversities of tongues" Paul is speaking of known languages of the world, not babel gibberish speech.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
KJV
According to Apostle Paul in that 1 Cor.12 chapter, diversities of tongues is the LEAST OF the gifts from The Holy Spirit!! It's the very last one... on Paul's list!
SO THOSE WHO CLAIM IF YOU DON'T SPEAK THE BABEL GIBBERISH THEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT NEED TO QUIT LISTENING TO DEVILS THAT HAVE GOTTEN POWER OVER THEM AND COME BACK TO JESUS CHRIST ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD!
Furthermore, those who claim one must speak the gibberish tongue to prove they have The Holy Spirit are speaking from the devil, because God's Word declares that The Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts severally as He wills.
So you guys really... need this lesson again from Apostle Paul...
1 Cor 12:3-14
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
According to Paul there, only one with The Holy Spirit can claim that Jesus Christ is Lord!
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
The spiritual gifts are like administrations, and have diversities of operations. That means the cloven tongue of Pentecost is only ONE of these several administrations!!!
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
That idea, "dividing to every man severally as He will", means The Holy Spirit gives an administration to each believer according to His will. That means not all believers receive all of them, but only the administration He calls for each person.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
KJV
1 Cor 12:28-31
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Notice with "diversities of tongues" Paul is speaking of known languages of the world, not babel gibberish speech.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
KJV
According to Apostle Paul in that 1 Cor.12 chapter, diversities of tongues is the LEAST OF the gifts from The Holy Spirit!! It's the very last one... on Paul's list!
SO THOSE WHO CLAIM IF YOU DON'T SPEAK THE BABEL GIBBERISH THEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT NEED TO QUIT LISTENING TO DEVILS THAT HAVE GOTTEN POWER OVER THEM AND COME BACK TO JESUS CHRIST ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD!
To prophecy is to declare existing revealed the will of God. He is no longer bringing any new prophecy what we had in part today because he has sealed up the possibility of any new today we have the whole, called the perfect .Need more?
The warning to not add I would think would be be enough to confirm it. The question is will you heed the warning ?
I disagree with 2 points on this, but otherwise this is an excellent treatise on the subject. So much so I'm not going to debate the 2 points. And I'm saving it for my files. Good job DP.
satan muddies the waters in many ways. He commits outright fraud. He then eggs people on into going far and above what God intended. Then he puffs up those who may be doing it right, making them imply some kind of superiority over others who don't - These people remind me of the Sneetches (bonus points for placing that reference without looking it up).
No one is superior for speaking - nobody is inferior for not.
But it's not a question of superiority, it's a question of missing out.
satan muddies the waters in many ways. He commits outright fraud. He then eggs people on into going far and above what God intended. Then he puffs up those who may be doing it right, making them imply some kind of superiority over others who don't - These people remind me of the Sneetches (bonus points for placing that reference without looking it up).
No one is superior for speaking - nobody is inferior for not.
But it's not a question of superiority, it's a question of missing out.
I made a thread on tongues that addresses some of the false notions people have been putting forth in this thread:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/139991-gift-tongues-contrary-pentecost.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/139991-gift-tongues-contrary-pentecost.html
U
Does it really now?The bible tells me that tongues are not to them that believe but to them that believe not because those that did not believe in Corinth probably spoke a foreign language.
Corinth was a busy city with many languages.... and presently I am not witnessing to anyone that does not speak my language.
Does it really now?
The proof is in the pudding. Yes there are fakes and frauds and charlatans and blabbers and arrogants and all kind of weird stuff going on out there.
But there is also a lot of true genuine edification of believers and their assemblies going on as well. The pudding proves that.
God says He wants us to. satan doesn't want us to. Who ya gonna call?