Christmas Trees Are not Pagan

[laura_charlotte]

No, it's not just about carved idols.
The people did worship the tree itself as well as stumps of trees as a part of pagan worship.
The argument that it's simply about carved idols is just an excuse.

Christ redeems mankind.
God specifically says not to worship Him in any way that the pagans utilized... two very different things. An apple and oranges comparison really.

​Well said! The scripture itself makes the true argument.

 

[dcontroversal]

Why did God command the groves to be cut down in the O.T...? Were the trees evil, what evil had they done? Guilt by association! Just saying!

 

[Mooky]

Agree! I love onions raw even and dill pickles are just awesome! I'm not a mayo-holic but a great mix I came up with is to mix bbq with mayo, throw in some soy sauce (1/2tsp), green chili sauce, and mix it all up. IT makes a great dipping sauce for fries or potato chunks!.....I like experimenting in the kitchen a lot.....

My mouth is literally watering!I have this private joke that I am a person who likes " grandfather foods." ie. typically un- girly foods .....give me mustard, tobasco sauce, pickles, garlic sauce, salami, chilli ( the-hotter-the-better) and other delectable delights.
Let the girly- girls keep their cakes, biscuits,chocolate and ice- cream .....I have a savoury tooth through and through!

 

[Tintin]

Brother Tintin, if you read the history of Nimrod and Semiramis you get the picture of Christmas trees and presents we are using today.

Christ doesn't redeem pagan things but He will redeem the pagan worshippers if they turn to Him.

Nimrod and Semiramis lived at least a millennium apart. So there's nothing there. I think you're misunderstanding me when I say Christ redeems pagan things.

 

[Tintin]

I
would say most countries. But thank you for agreeing. The story of Nimrod, where is that found?

It's non-biblical clap-trap either started by Alexander He's Sloppy's "The Two Babylons" or popularised by his work.

 

[Tintin]

tint im using my brain and looking at the Jer pass and i see
1) dont copy the nations
2) vanity
3) silver and gold
4) tree cut down in forest, make into idol and decorated

i look at Christmas today, how its celebrated, how Jesus has been ignored with:
1) a tradition copied from the nations
2) vanity
3) (greed) silver and gold
4) a decorated tree.

hard for me to believe one has nothing to do with the other.

You almost dismissed the bit that gives the whole thing its context - that the tree is carved by human hands into an idol. That's key. That doesn't describe chopping down a tree in a forest (or whatever) and bringing it home. Carving a tree into an idol is a huge difference. Also, covering an idol in silver and gold is vastly different from putting coloured tinsel on a tree. It's fair enough if you oppose Christmas because Holy Spirit convicted YOU about it. I'm just saying that you're clutching at pine-needles here with this 'evidence'.

 

[blue_ladybug]

The tree (could) become an idol if you dipped it's branches into a giant vat of liquid gold and silver.. lol

 

[Tintin]

Nimrod and Semiramis lived at least a millennium apart. So there's nothing there. I think you're misunderstanding me when I say Christ redeems pagan things.

I've actually read Alexander He's Sloppy's "The Two Babylons". What I put in bold is key. And there are many, many more issues with his pet project. He's Sloppy's evidence isn't history, it's not even mythology. Yes, it's fiction, but it's his fiction - of his own making. He cobbled a whole heap of completely unrelated world mythologies together to provide 'evidence' for his little agenda. Unfortunately, his influence was far-reaching, even though his 'research' was extremely sloppy, even by liberal bible scholars/theologians' or YouTube 'truth' standards.

 

[jaybird88]

You almost dismissed the bit that gives the whole thing its context - that the tree is carved by human hands into an idol. That's key. That doesn't describe chopping down a tree in a forest (or whatever) and bringing it home. Carving a tree into an idol is a huge difference. Also, covering an idol in silver and gold is vastly different from putting coloured tinsel on a tree. It's fair enough if you oppose Christmas because Holy Spirit convicted YOU about it. I'm just saying that you're clutching at pine-needles here with this 'evidence'.

when i said:

tree cut down in forest, make into idol and decorated

i was addressing the tree being carved into an idol.

i believe you and many others here at CC honor Jesus at Christmas. the point im making with all this is we are a small majority as the masses celebrate Christmas with little or no focus on Jesus, the focus goes to the tree, copy the nations, vanity, greed/wealth. just like the passage says. make sense?

 

[OneFaith]

This scripture is not talking about a Christmas tree. It says they use a chisel and carve an image- who carves an image into their Christmas tree? No, the point the Bible was saying is that they cut down a tree, make an image out of it, and decorate their new false god- who even has to be sturdied so that it don't fall over.

The point is, false gods are no gods at all, so don't worship them. If I carved a face into a cucumber, and pronounced that it was a god, someone in this world would worship it (pathetic). A Christmas tree is a light, a decoration, not a god. If it's not more important to you than God Himself, and you don't worship it, I'd say you're good.

 

[Tintin]

when i said:


i was addressing the tree being carved into an idol.

i believe you and many others here at CC honor Jesus at Christmas. the point im making with all this is we are a small majority as the masses celebrate Christmas with little or no focus on Jesus, the focus goes to the tree, copy the nations, vanity, greed/wealth. just like the passage says. make sense?

Okay, I see what you're saying. But even with those who aren't Christians, I don't see much of a focus on Christmas trees at all. But vanity/greed/wealth, they're very valid reasons for opposing Christmas. That said, the vast majority of non-Christians are more likely to idolise family, friends, food and presents than their Christmas tree.

 

[missy2014]

*throws cotton balls at Socreta

That's the Christian non violent protest *cottonballs* how tough* def not innocent

 

[missy2014]

*throws cotton balls at Socreta

Blows feathers at Socreta * its soft on the skin*

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Nimrod and Semiramis lived at least a millennium apart. So there's nothing there.

Tintin I think the biggest challenge is to find sources we can trust. The information is so old and we can challenge anything presented to us. The information about Nimrod and his mother is well documented and if somebody tried to discredit them on purpose I can understand where you are coming from.

Like I said yesterday, we can argue about this but that is not my intension. Present the presumed facts and then let people decide for themselves . If you want a Christmas tree it no skin of my nose brother

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

nope nope and more nope

While eating my porridge this morning (see what I did there ) I though of another beauty about pork meat. Because of there light skin complexions and little hair the pigs are prone to get skin cancer. The only way they know how to get rid of it is to eat the cancer from each other and yes, you guessed it the cancer cells are still sitting in "little pig" when you are grilling it away on the barbeque. The cancer cells are entering your system and yummy you have to digest the cancer cells (if you can...).

Oops, I am just kidding I did not have breakfast this morning

 

[Tintin]

Tintin I think the biggest challenge is to find sources we can trust. The information is so old and we can challenge anything presented to us. The information about Nimrod and his mother is well documented and if somebody tried to discredit them on purpose I can understand where you are coming from.

Like I said yesterday, we can argue about this but that is not my intension. Present the presumed facts and then let people decide for themselves . If you want a Christmas tree it no skin of my nose brother

No, actually, it's not. We know absolutely nothing about Nimrod's mother, not even her name. And like I said, in reality, Nimrod and Semiramis lived over 1,000 years apart so there would've been absolutely no interaction between them. There's no history here, there's no viable mythology even. There's nothing there. Nothing. Nothing to discredit. Nothing. It's all just He's Sloppy's imagination. Why do you give this the benefit of the doubt?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

No, actually, it's not. We know absolutely nothing about Nimrod's mother, not even her name. And like I said, in reality, Nimrod and Semiramis lived over 1,000 years apart so there would've been absolutely no interaction between them. There's no history here, there's no viable mythology even. There's nothing there. Nothing. Nothing to discredit. Nothing. It's all just He's Sloppy's imagination. Why do you give this the benefit of the doubt?

Tintin, if you want to defend their honour I am ok with that again no skin of my nose. I don't believe in their religion and I don't keep Christmas or Easter so I actually don't care. I know the information is available and we can decide what we want to believe.

If I look at Christmas and Easter, the commercial side is a warning about where it is from.

 

[laura_charlotte]

when i said: i was addressing the tree being carved into an idol.

the point im making with all this is we are a small majority as the masses celebrate Christmas with little or no focus on Jesus, the focus goes to the tree, copy the nations, vanity, greed/wealth. just like the passage says. make sense?

Unfortunately, as you pointed out, it's not just that tree is an idol,







whether it be the pagan day in question or any other, Jesus is not honoured much less acknowledged by the mainstream.

 

[Blik]

Back to the original topic... I have some questions

I think we can all agree that many of the things associated with christmas originate from pagan origins. I simple encyclopedia read will confirm this.

So there are many who believe that it's okay now, because we don't specifically worship the tree or the mistletoe or the decorations, etc. We've thrown Jesus' name on the festival, and it's all supposedly good.

Where I question this is that the scripture specifically tells us not to worship God the same way the pagans worship their gods. We also have examples in scripture where God revealed His very thoughts on His people following in the traditions of the pagans. The death of Uzza comes to mind as a clear example that we are not to follow in the example or tradition of the pagans.

Then I look at what Jesus said where the question was asked, "Can good fruit come from a bad root?" And although I have to agree that it in the very deepest down can't, I'm wondering how some can justify that it can?

I can't find a single example in the scriptures where God said that taking a pagan holiday and slapping Jesus' name on it would make it okay in His eyes. I can't find a single scripture to back up where mixing of good and evil is 'acceptable' to God.

Thoughts???

The word tells us that we are to live through Christ, yet today's world is filled with things of the pagans, myths, and idols. Even the name of the days of the week! We have no holidays we celebrate that are given to us by the Lord. The Sabbath changed to Sunday isn't in scripture, it is based on that it was discovered that Christ had risen on Sunday, but scripture doesn't tell us when He rose. The word Easter isn't in original scripture, and when Constantine spoke about it being part of the Nicene Council he said that we must not have Passover for the Jews had that and we must not do anything the Jews did. (I am paraphrasing that). Christmas is a holiday that isn't suggested once in scripture, but was a Christian way of celebrating the winter solstice.

God gave us holidays to celebrate--they are a celebration of God's plan for our redemption. Every Friday night there is a celebration over supper with singing, love, and family. The world hasn't added commercialism, eggs as in Easter, football as in Thanksgiving, or any of worldly things to those God given celebrations.

The results of the part of Christmas that is celebrating the birth of Christ has been uplifting to even our agnostic world, I should think that following God would be much better.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Have you ever seen how kids react when their parents try to put them on Santa's lap? That spirits collide like freight trains and the kid starts crying. Mommy and daddy hop around and tell little Johnny/Suzy "it's ok, it's ok" but that kid is just not ok. (anything for the sake of a good picture to post on facebook or whatever.......)

We are so out of touch with God's reality sometimes. If your kid picks it up listen to them