How long can a Christian go without sinning?

[PeterJens]

I don't think that loving ones self is ingrained in people what you are talking about is self preservation which is primal ALL animals have it.

Loving ones self is a byproduct of self respect,self control and self awareness.

A perfect example is the Native Americans that live on reservations they have sime of the highest suicide rates because awareness of self and everything that goes with that(self respect,self control) is not taught,this is also why it's normal for them to steal everything in site.

Im not racist im Native American and we steal from each other it's perfectly normal athough it shouldn't be.

Culture and love are powerful things in groups.
There was a study of group behaviour, one of a village in africa, and another of a community in India.
In India, this group was always concerned and looking out for people in the group and helping
each other.

The group in africa were always just looking for the needs of the individual, whether it benefited
or not the group.

The person sent to study this group in africa could not help becoming like them in outlook.

It is this emotional overlay, a cultural identity where things are expressed in concern sincerely to
others and their needs and wants, or only on oneself that is so powerful. Children pick this up
very quickly, what is acceptable to say and express and what the group will approve of or condemn.
As social beings we follow the rules, until we develop a true sense of our own identity, which in Christ
is driven by His love and reality in our hearts.

 

[mailmandan]

If DiscipleDave ever comes across this thread, he is going to have a field day! He believes that he presently lives a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time in contradiction to 1 John 1:8 and claims that anyone else who falls short of that same standard is a child of the devil. - http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146196-helmet-hope-salvation-9.html

He keeps insisting that the Bible teaches sinless perfection or else and claims to hear from God!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I think this.

Paul spent his time worrying about others. and who he needed to serve. Not how many times he sinned in a day. Or if he could go a day or two without sinning.

You usually will not see Christians focused on God bringing sin issues up.. You see the pharisee type people bring sin issues up..

so to me it is really not even an issue.

Wasn't it a few years after Paul met God that he really went to the other believers? We don't know what his struggles were to get to the place he was. But we do hear him express some of it in places like, I don't WANT to sin, but I DO what I don't WANT to do. That was a struggle he himself went through in working out his own salvation with fear and trembling, or he wouldn't have been able to express it to us, who have the same struggle.

I think that if Christians honestly talk with one another about what their own struggles in trusting have been, or are, we find that God does bring up sin issues with us in our hearts, and we work through them with the Spirits' help. He DOES show us our own hypocrisies, etc. It isn't bad to focus on our walk sometimes and talk with others about their own struggles in it.

Good morning, by the way!

Sometimes, to talk about our problem areas is not self love but is a burning thirst in us for righteousness inside in our heart and the pain we feel at seeing we aren't acting well.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If DiscipleDave ever comes across this thread, he is going to have a field day! He believes that he presently lives a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time in contradiction to 1 John 1:8 and claims that anyone else who falls short of that same standard is a child of the devil. - http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146196-helmet-hope-salvation-9.html

He keeps insisting that the Bible teaches sinless perfection or else and claims to hear from God!

Morning mailmandan,

Hmmmm .... Well, there goes the process of being transformed into the image of the Lord, huh? If we were already perfect, without fault or defect, there would be no need for sanctification. Jesus is our sinless perfection.

 

[Depleted]

I know the Bible better than you ever will. And why would you think my intent is to get thru to you?

Oi vey! Cocky much?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wasn't it a few years after Paul met God that he really went to the other believers? We don't know what his struggles were to get to the place he was. But we do hear him express some of it in places like, I don't WANT to sin, but I DO what I don't WANT to do. That was a struggle he himself went through in working out his own salvation with fear and trembling, or he wouldn't have been able to express it to us, who have the same struggle.

I think that if Christians honestly talk with one another about what their own struggles in trusting have been, or are, we find that God does bring up sin issues with us in our hearts, and we work through them with the Spirits' help. He DOES show us our own hypocrisies, etc. It isn't bad to focus on our walk sometimes and talk with others about their own struggles in it.

Good morning, by the way!

Sometimes, to talk about our problem areas is not self love but is a burning thirst in us for righteousness inside in our heart and the pain we feel at seeing we aren't acting well.

I do believe in discipleship. In this relationship. We open our hearts to someone, and allow them to speak in our lives. In this relationship, we also speak of our sin issues and confess them, And help each other out.

I do not think Christians go around thinking how much they sin,, Their focus should be on others.. If we sin, we confess, and move on. that's what Grace does, It gives us power so we do not judge ourselves and become defeated when we have sin issues in our lives on particular days. . And allows us to move forward. and continue to run the race.

I think this is what paul meant when he said oh what a wretched man I am,, (he admitted his true self) then said, he will for the grace of God continue to press on to the prize.. and work out that salvation that was given to him.

Good morning to you also..

 

[Depleted]

ha! I know you do. However, talking to some around here is about as fruitful as arguing with an Alzheimer's patient as to why they're not allowed to use the stove.

Thank you for that. Dad is that Alzheimer's patient. It really is always, always, ALWAYS about you, isn't it?

Back to ignore you go.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Believers aren't that much different from non-believers when it comes to sin then. The difference is only that this set of sinners have faith in Christ. As rosy as that sounds and as self-deprecating as some are, God's word doesn't paint this picture.

We are not like the world, we are not supposed to be walking in the flesh (though at times we do). To simply ascertain that we sin just as much if not more than people who do not have Christ, then something is utterly wrong in our approach. If you look at the fruit of a believer and that of a non-believer and find them to be equal in conduct, something is awry.

There is a verse that speaks of a believer having sin that not even the pagans have. Yet, this is carnal Christianity. This is a babe in Christ having yet matured. This is someone who hasn't been in their walk long, and been progressively sanctified. Such a person needs to awake to righteousness and sin not. They need to walk out their identity in Christ. They need to renew their mind. Just because it exists doesn't mean that it should be the case. They shouldn't be using their liberty as an occasion for the flesh, but to use their members for righteousness.

The point being, to say that we sin daily paints a very sad tale. It paints a picture to those in sin, the world, that the burdens that so oppress them are still yet burdens in Christ. This shouldn't be so! What hope do we offer those in darkness if we claim to be of the light and yet present ourselves as being in the shadows?

Salvation isn't just about a ticket to Heaven. There is wholeness involved, and deliverance. There are chains being broken and liberty bestowed. This isn't like the song that says "Hello darkness my old friend", but rather an embrace of walking in the light, that is Jesus Christ. We have been set free from sin's dominion, we are dead to sin. God sets us free from sins, as He sanctifies us. Such burdens and wickedness do not have their grip on us, only in that we perceive them to.

To the sinner entangled in his flesh that gives him the propensity to sin, we offer a solution. We do not simply pat them on the back and say that we all sin. We encourage them and exhort them into their identity in Christ and reveal to them the truth of being born-again. Their taste for righteousness and the things of God restored. A propensity for righteousness. As I recently read, a fish out of water can only stay on land for so long. In the same way that to sin for us is contrary to our new nature in Christ, having been born-again. It is out of the ordinary, or it should be.

Again, this isn't about sinless perfectionism. This is about the deliverance from sin's dominion in our lives.

There is a great difference, specifically because we have been delivered from sin's dominion. We have the option of not sinning. Because we have Christ we no longer have to sin. But we do still sin, and to pretend we don't does more to damage our testimony than anything. The worst thing we do as Christians is present to the world this notion that we are without sin. Because they see right through it, and hypocrisy discredits the whole message. We may be better off than them, but we are not better than them.

"When Christ is within, His strength is ours. Weak in ourselves we are "strong in the Lord and in the power of His might." We are "strong in the grace that is Christ Jesus." Concerning every victory won or work accomplished we thankfully acknowledge, "It is not I, but Christ who dwelleth in me." Concerning every failure and defeat we sorrowfully acknowledge, "It is not Christ, but sin that dwelleth in me." The discouragement arising from futile attempts to live the Christian life is traceable in every case to a lack of dependence upon the power of the Indwelling Christ.” - JAMES M. CAMPBELL

 

[willybob]

Would you be surprised to know that it seems a lot of believer's answer to this is hardly but a day? Recently a pastor at my church was asked this question and his response to the question, "Can a Christian not sin for a day, a week, a month, or a year?" was "I don't think so." Of course he left himself open for criticism and said if anyone wants to teach him better to just pull him to the side. He wasn't being definitive, but always keeps an open stance because he believes the Lord can show people stuff that he is missing.

Anyways, I find it peculiar is all. This seems to be a Christian stance on sinning, that we can hardly go a day or a week without sinning. Yet, I don't find this stance in the Bible. We don't get a warning from the apostle Paul or in any of epistles stating something like, "You're not perfect. You're going to keep sinning, but keep going." or, really any statement that you will sin, but rather if you do sin (we have an Advocate with the Father).

We are told to not use our liberty as an occasion or opportunity to entertain the flesh but to serve in righteousness. We are encouraged to reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God, because as Christ died and rose, we did we (represented in baptism). You'll see the epistles stating who we are in Christ. Righteous loving people, zealous of good works. All of this speaks to walking in righteousness, even saying that sin doesn't have dominion over us because we are not under the law but grace.

Why is our response to this question hardly but a day when scripture states we've been set free? Why is it so hard for a Christian to believe a believer can go a long period of time without sinning or even a short period of time? Have we not died to sin? Did not this propensity get taken from us, where we have the choice to sin (having had the old man be crucified)?

To think that the leadership in the Church believe that we cannot go any period of time without sinning is baffling. What has happened to sanctification? Does God not chastise? Do we not have the fruit of the Holy Spirit? Did not Christ die to set us free, to make us who were once dead now alive in Him, having been born-again? Where is our liberty, to not sin, but to serve in the newness of the spirit? Aren't we supposed to awake to righteousness and sin not?

This isn't talking about sinless perfectionism, this is talking about the mindset of the Church in relation to sin. They still see themselves in chains, when God says that sin shall not have dominion over you. What is the reasoning for this?

Do you mean the vile sins of the flesh that will disqualify one from inheriting the kingdom? If so, then I don't believe Joseph ever did these sins, he avoided evil at all points, there is no evidence in the scriptures that he did and He lived to be 110 years old. Job never partook of them either, and he lived to be over 200 years old. Neither did Daniel nor Hannah. Now were these men perfect in all knowledge, free from mistakes, sins of ignorance, subject to vanity being made under the curse of physical death? No! but they never engaged themselves in the vile sins that will send one to hell...I know its hard for some to grasp but not all people are sinners...I do agree most have been sinners, especially myself... but Christian's like Paul are FORMER sinners having become saints and departed from the bonds of iniquity. The Lords prayer covers the two kinds of sins, as well the apostle John does in his epistles too...

 

[BenFTW]

There is a great difference, specifically because we have been delivered from sin's dominion. We have the option of not sinning. Because we have Christ we no longer have to sin. But we do still sin, and to pretend we don't does more to damage our testimony than anything. The worst thing we do as Christians is present to the world this notion that we are without sin. Because they see right through it, and hypocrisy discredits the whole message. We may be better off than them, but we are not better than them.

"When Christ is within, His strength is ours. Weak in ourselves we are "strong in the Lord and in the power of His might." We are "strong in the grace that is Christ Jesus." Concerning every victory won or work accomplished we thankfully acknowledge, "It is not I, but Christ who dwelleth in me." Concerning every failure and defeat we sorrowfully acknowledge, "It is not Christ, but sin that dwelleth in me." The discouragement arising from futile attempts to live the Christian life is traceable in every case to a lack of dependence upon the power of the Indwelling Christ.” - JAMES M. CAMPBELL

I was being sarcastic. There is, as you said, a great difference and the glory goes to God.

 

[Sirk]

Thank you for that. Dad is that Alzheimer's patient. It really is always, always, ALWAYS about you, isn't it?

Back to ignore you go.

Yay! I woke up to some good news!

 

[garee]

Believers aren't that much different from non-believers when it comes to sin then. The difference is only that this set of sinners Believers aren't that much different from non-believers when it comes to sin then.

Yes the wage of sin (one) is eternal damnation for either. One set forgiven, the other mercy was not applied.

The difference is only that this set of sinners have faith in Christ. As rosy as that sounds and as self-deprecating as some are, God's word doesn't paint this picture.

As rosy as it is (the glory of God according to the grace of God ) it is not subject to change. You should rejoice in the gospel rather than make it a sad occasion.

Its principle as a law not a opinion subject to change . Two masters, faith or works? Grace or death?

One set of sinners (the forgiven ones) has the faith of Christ in respect to his finished work that makes us perfect/ complete. That work of His faith (not of our own selves) is not after something we could do .We continue to walk by faith (Christ's in us) all the days of our new born again lives.

We have the authority of that faith in us but are never to assume it could be us. As long as we live in a body of sin we are subject to its desires. God gives us a new heart and a new spirit that will never die at our rebirth. To have the work of Christ’s faith that works in us in respect to our own selves or others is simply to blaspheme the Holy name by which we are called.

We are not like the world, we are not supposed to be walking in the flesh (though at times we do). To simply ascertain that we sin just as much if not more than people who do not have Christ, then something is utterly wrong in our approach.

It’s not the amount of sin that determines if God will send a strong delusion to believe a lie or as a new creature ..call the person back to repentance over and over all the days of their life. One sin demands eternal damnation and not how often one does sin living in a body of sin..

To sin in the least is to be held responsible for the whole wage of sin.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

It His grace according to His faith that works in us to both will and do his good pleasure that can teach us to say no to ungodliness. Without His grace there would be nothing that would a turn a person towards God who has no form so that then after they are turned by God they could repent, as a work of Christ working in us .

This is again to both will and do his good pleasure. For it is God who can make our hearts soft.

For the grace of God that "bringeth" salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Tit 2:11

If you look at the fruit of a believer and that of a non-believer and find them to be equal in conduct, something is awry.

Its when He sees the fruit. Just like the Exodus when he sees the blood not when we think we see it. Its truth before we believe and not after something we could do, with could be fruit. Like the man in Mathew 7 .He did preform what he claimed ,prophecy in the name of Christ which as prophecy could cast out demons(God is not served by human hands). He can use a believer to work out His will as easily as one who has no faith. God called him a worker of inquity . Its what blaspheming produces making the cross without effect.

Yes the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven because men cannot see into the hearts of each other as to whether God is with them or not. If he began the good work of salvation he will finish it. .

There is a verse that speaks of a believer having sin that not even the pagans have. Yet, this is carnal Christianity. This is a babe in Christ having yet matured.

It does not say he was not mature .Just that he violated a law and was used as an example, nothing more and nothing less.

Mature Christians are provided the same grace that came from the same work of Christ’s faith ,as a labor of His love in the new believer.

If the mature sin, which all men do, the wage of that one sin remains "eternal damnation". By the grace of Christ we have been delivered from these bodies of sin that show us as sinners. We never outgrow our need for the milk of the word, it (not works we perform) teaches us that God is gracious.

This is someone who hasn't been in their walk long, and been progressively sanctified. Such a person needs to awake to righteousness and sin not. They need to walk out their identity in Christ. They need to renew their mind. Just because it exists doesn't mean that it should be the case. They shouldn't be using their liberty as an occasion for the flesh, but to use their members for righteousness.

If they have eternal life they can. and do use the liberty. (its called sinning.)

Christ is the one who gives us a new spirit by which we can renew our minds .Without that grace we would have nothing to turn us so that then after we are turned we could repent.

True repentance is a work of God ,not of our own selves lest any man say they turned God.

The point being, to say that we sin daily paints a very sad tale. It paints a picture to those in sin, the world, that the burdens that so oppress them are still yet burdens in Christ. This shouldn't be so!

Should'nt be as ideology and the fact that me do .are two different things. One theory the other law.

Yes it was sad when God corrupted the old creation because of one sin. It is the wrath of God that is being revealed daily. Not a pretty picture..

What hope do we offer those in darkness if we claim to be of the light and yet present ourselves as being in the shadows?

We do have that living hope in us it will never disappoint a true Christian who have passed from death (never to rise to new life) to eternal life (those who will rise).

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.Rom 7:24



. As rosy as that sounds and as self-deprecating as some are, God's word doesn't paint this picture.



One set of sinners (the forgiven ones) has the faith of Christ in respect to his finished work that makes us perfect/ complete. That work of his faith (not of our own selves) is not after something we could do .We have the authority of that faith in us but are never to assume it could be us. As long as we live in a body of sin we are subject to its desires. God gives us a new heart and a new spirt that will never die at our rebirth. To have the work of Christ’s faith that works in us in respect to our own selves or other is simply to blaspheme the Holy name by which we are called.

We are not like the world, we are not supposed to be walking in the flesh (though at times we do). To simply ascertain that we sin just as much if not more than people who do not have Christ, then something is utterly wrong in our approach.
It’s not the amount of sin that determines if God will send a strong delusion to believe a lie or as a new creature call the person bac to repentance over and over all the days of their life. One sin demands eternal damnation. To sin in the least is to be held responsible for the whole wage of sin. It His grace according to His faith that works in us to both will and do his good pleasure that can teach us to say no to ungodliness. Without His grace there would be nothing that would a turn a person towards God who has no form so that then they could repent as a work of Christ working in us .again to both will and do his good pleasure.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Tit 2:11

If you look at the fruit of a believer and that of a non-believer and find them to be equal in conduct, something is awry.
Yes the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven because men cannot see into the hearts of each other as to whether God is with them or not. If he began the good work of salvation he will finish it. .

There is a verse that speaks of a believer having sin that not even the pagans have. Yet, this is carnal Christianity. This is a babe in Christ having yet matured.
Mature Christians are provided the same grace that came from the same work of Christ’s faith as a labor of His love then the new believer. If the mature sin which all men do the wage of that one sin remains eternal damnation. By the grace of Christ we have been delivered from these bodies of sin that show us as sinners. We never outgrow our need for the milk of the word it teaches us that God is gracious.

This is someone who hasn't been in their walk long, and been progressively sanctified. Such a person needs to awake to righteousness and sin not. They need to walk out their identity in Christ. They need to renew their mind. Just because it exists doesn't mean that it should be the case. They shouldn't be using their liberty as an occasion for the flesh, but to use their members for righteousness.

If they have eternal life they can.

Christ is the one who gives us a new spirit by which we can renew our minds .Without that grace we would have nothing to turn us so that then after we are turned we could repent. The unbeliever receives the strong delusion.

True repentance is a work of God ,not of our own selves lest any man say they turned God.

The point being, to say that we sin daily paints a very sad tale. It paints a picture to those in sin, the world, that the burdens that so oppress them are still yet burdens in Christ. This shouldn't be so!

Yes it was sad when God corrupted the old creation because of one sin. It is the wrath of God that is being revealed daily. Not a pretty picture..

What hope do we offer those in darkness if we claim to be of the light and yet present ourselves as being in the shadows?

We have that living hope in us.it will never disappoint a true Christian who have passed from death (never to rise to new life) to eternal life (those who will rise).

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh "the law of sin".Rom 7:24 (The law of sin , not theory, is still one sin equals eternal, damnation, no limbo )

 

[BenFTW]

Thank you for that. Dad is that Alzheimer's patient. It really is always, always, ALWAYS about you, isn't it?

Back to ignore you go.

I've noticed a trend in you lately that any time you offer criticism its always about the premise of self. I don't know who you have been listening to, but its like you've gone to an extreme that anything having to do with self is sin. There is a word for this, but I can't at the moment grasp it to articulate it.

Often people bring up this word to say, for example, that if you are a giving person and it pleases you to give then it really isn't "something." I suppose, it really isn't selfless. So the fact that one gains something inherently makes it so that it isn't selfless, no matter how small a benefit.

My issue with this mindset of selflessness is that we have many instances in which scripture notes a benefit from doing that which is good. Be it rewards at the Bema seat of Christ, or in this life, as we give we also receive (sowing and reaping). Its kind of just bothered me, lately, when I continue to see you bring up this concept of selflessness in all things when, for example, even Jesus died on the cross with the joy set before Him.

Selflessness and denying my part in the Gospel (God died for me) is not a healthy stance that I keep seeing you bring up. Any time someone is discussing topics revolving around our relationship with God for example, your immediate response is that its about Him not you. Yet, God is bestowing the riches of His grace upon us. He loves us. We are His children. We are in this equation just as much as God, its Him and us.

I don't know Depleted, I just find this almost borders on the line of a false sense of humility. Just because self is involved it doesn't somehow negate the act as righteous. If I grow a business that serves people, I am gaining but so are others (from the product sold). This isn't selfless, and yet it is perfectly righteous in that both parties are gaining something.

God doesn't mind if we look after self, remember that we are after all the temple of the Holy Spirit.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I was being sarcastic. There is, as you said, a great difference and the glory goes to God.

When we limit sin to the big ten and the dirty dozen it's easy to think of ourselves as doing pretty well in the sin department. But, when we accept the reality of the depth of our sin, my question is, how can we say we don't sin everyday?? At least with a straight face?

 

[notuptome]

The closer your walk with Jesus the more evident your sin becomes.

In the Light of His perfection you begin to see sin you have previously overlooked or ignored. Walk in the darkness of your own will and you will see only your perfection not His.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[BenFTW]

When we limit sin to the big ten and the dirty dozen it's easy to think of ourselves as doing pretty well in the sin department. But, when we accept the reality of the depth of our sin, my question is, how can we say we don't sin everyday?? At least with a straight face?

My issue with this line of reasoning is that we are told to not use our liberty or freedom as an opportunity to entertain the lusts of the flesh. So, how can we say that we sin EVERY DAY when God, through the apostle Paul, says to not do that? I see your point, don't misunderstand me, but consider the point I am bringing up.

If we sin every single day of the year, why are we told that we are dead to sin and that we shouldn't live therein? That we should walk in righteousness? Serve in the newness of life and in the Spirit?

Do you think its even possible to go a period of time without sinning (while awake)? Shouldn't this be the norm, as opposed to a rarity (at least at some point in our walk)?

 

[gb9]

Hi Ben. This was my point when I first came to cc. It is also why we went through
total inability ideas, what walking in righteousness is or is not, is Christs victory a reality or not.

Now here is the thing. When I first started reading the bible as a teenager, I knew whatever
Paul was talking about, when I read the words it made sense, but as soon as I started thinking
myself, however I expressed it, I got it wrong.

Over the years I have begun to realise it is about dwelling with the Most High, spending time in
thought word and deed in Him. Do we become more Holy, or the Holiness within work through
our frailty?

Sin is just the tip of the iceburg of intensions and desires of the heart, defending hurts and pain
and loss, which the cross and love resolve.

But to capture the glimpse of healing within, and the support Christ gives is faith.
To communicate this to peoples souls is something only God can achieve.

It also appears that within church life it is hard for people to realise this as well.
But without this, how are we to show Christ within, victory over sin and death,
resurrection power.

4th paragraph. sin is NOT emotional struggle. it is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so.

it so dangerous to try to force everything through the lens of emotions. because if you define sin as feelings, then you can flip that and define holiness, righteousness, through feelings, and declare yourself pure, holy and righteous because you FEEL like you are.

 

[Sirk]

The question is...how long can a sinner go without christianing.

 

[BenFTW]

The question is...how long can a sinner go without christianing.

Unfortunately, and sadly, their whole life 'til their last breath.

 

[Grandpa]

When we limit sin to the big ten and the dirty dozen it's easy to think of ourselves as doing pretty well in the sin department. But, when we accept the reality of the depth of our sin, my question is, how can we say we don't sin everyday?? At least with a straight face?

I was perfect as my Father in Heaven is Perfect. Well, almost. What is almost??? Falling short...