S
"Why would you compare church services to the aspects of the temple that had to do with the ark and Holy of Holies? (And do you believe the Holy of Holies in Jerusalem is truly the dwelling place of God?)"
Well, we worship in church service, among our families, and in our private time. Israel had a geographical place of worship, even though they were able to practice private acts of worship anywhere.
I believe that Israel and their Temple were typical of the Church. We are the dwelling place of God as the true and anti-typical Temple.
"In the Old Testament, Israel gathered as an assembly, an ekklesia. Shouldn't we consider what they did in their gatherings of their ekklesia when we consider Old Testament patterns regarding the ekklesia of Christ? The Psalms tell people to sing, rejoice, clap their hands, and dance. If you draw from Old Testament examples and commands, why not those rather than issues related specifically to the ark of the covenant."
I used Old Testament to show that God is consistently is zealous for his worship to be true and pure.
"I see those who promote the Regulative Principle of worship using scripture to prop up church services that are either man-made or draw from synagogue and temple liturgy without paying much attention to some of the specific commands to the actual New Testament churches on what to do in church."
So we see differently, because that is not my experience, however, it was yours.
"I Corinthians 14 is the most lengthy passage we have on what to actually do in church gatherings aside form passages on the Lord's Supper. Why may speak? 'Every one of you.' The restriction is that it be done 'unto edifying.' The passage speaks of an individual singing a psalm. An individual doesn't have to be on a stage, but would you count that as a 'performance.'"
Paul's direction to the Corinthians in his day were to be followed. I don't deny that.
"Where is the idea that only clergy, or primarily clergy, must teach the word? The Bible doesn't teach that. It is assumed by much of Protestant tradition. Where does the New Testament teach that there must be one speaker giving a sermon? This seems to be assumed by Protestant tradition. The 'commandments of the Lord' for church meetings in I Corinthians 14 regulate how multiple speakers may prophesy. Some of the Reformed Christians redefine prophesying to mean the preaching of sermons, but how many of them have two or three sermons per meeting? The chapter teaches, "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.'"
Reformed Churches, for an example of Protestant tradition, often have a plurality of elders, and not all believe that there is one main speaker. You dont seem to know much about Protestanism.
A form of prophesying is preaching the word, more than predicting the future. Read up on the Old Testament prophets, they spoke more of exhortation to obedience and faithfulness to God than predicting events. We don't need to have prophets now since Scripture contains all that is necessary to edify each other. I agree with Paul, 'For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged..." (1 Cor. 14:30).
"If you are going to use a 'regulative principle' shouldn't you at least start with the very direct commands that tell what to do in church? Instead of having members of the congregation use their gifts in a meeting to edify one another, allowing tongues and interpretation, multiple prophecies, it seems like those who are into the 'Regulative Principle' are into the 'performance' of the one clergyman preaching a sermon. The 'regulative principle' is used as a justification for arguing about whether a psalter should be sung instead of hymns or repetitive choruses, arguing that scripture, like the psalms, should be sung in church. But then the parts of the psalms that say to dance, shout, clap, etc. aren't followed. It seems like the Regulative Principle is applied inconsistently, with a lot of cherry picking, while specific commands for church meeting in the New Testament itself are ignored."
If you desire to learn, not everyone who holds to the believe in Exclusive Psalmody. Just as there is various beliefs within Protestanism, various beliefs within Reformed Theology, so there is various beliefs as to what else is considered RPW. Instead of generalizing, please respectfully consider reviewing it to different camps.
"The Bible does not teach that we are to gather together as a church to worship. One use of 'worship' is to translate a word that might be translated 'service', a word which could be used to refer to a wide variety of 'service' including clipping grass or liturgical activity. That's how we use the word 'worship.' The word most commonly translated 'worship' means to prostrate, to bow down with one's head toward the ground or floor. Jesus taught that they that prostate to the Father must prostate to him in spirit and in truth."
So apparently the apostles never encouraged and directed the believers to gather and fellowship? I would not want to forsake the assembling of the saints, since it is a form of public worship and a means of grace to bless us.
Well, we worship in church service, among our families, and in our private time. Israel had a geographical place of worship, even though they were able to practice private acts of worship anywhere.
I believe that Israel and their Temple were typical of the Church. We are the dwelling place of God as the true and anti-typical Temple.
"In the Old Testament, Israel gathered as an assembly, an ekklesia. Shouldn't we consider what they did in their gatherings of their ekklesia when we consider Old Testament patterns regarding the ekklesia of Christ? The Psalms tell people to sing, rejoice, clap their hands, and dance. If you draw from Old Testament examples and commands, why not those rather than issues related specifically to the ark of the covenant."
I used Old Testament to show that God is consistently is zealous for his worship to be true and pure.
"I see those who promote the Regulative Principle of worship using scripture to prop up church services that are either man-made or draw from synagogue and temple liturgy without paying much attention to some of the specific commands to the actual New Testament churches on what to do in church."
So we see differently, because that is not my experience, however, it was yours.
"I Corinthians 14 is the most lengthy passage we have on what to actually do in church gatherings aside form passages on the Lord's Supper. Why may speak? 'Every one of you.' The restriction is that it be done 'unto edifying.' The passage speaks of an individual singing a psalm. An individual doesn't have to be on a stage, but would you count that as a 'performance.'"
Paul's direction to the Corinthians in his day were to be followed. I don't deny that.
"Where is the idea that only clergy, or primarily clergy, must teach the word? The Bible doesn't teach that. It is assumed by much of Protestant tradition. Where does the New Testament teach that there must be one speaker giving a sermon? This seems to be assumed by Protestant tradition. The 'commandments of the Lord' for church meetings in I Corinthians 14 regulate how multiple speakers may prophesy. Some of the Reformed Christians redefine prophesying to mean the preaching of sermons, but how many of them have two or three sermons per meeting? The chapter teaches, "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.'"
Reformed Churches, for an example of Protestant tradition, often have a plurality of elders, and not all believe that there is one main speaker. You dont seem to know much about Protestanism.
A form of prophesying is preaching the word, more than predicting the future. Read up on the Old Testament prophets, they spoke more of exhortation to obedience and faithfulness to God than predicting events. We don't need to have prophets now since Scripture contains all that is necessary to edify each other. I agree with Paul, 'For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged..." (1 Cor. 14:30).
"If you are going to use a 'regulative principle' shouldn't you at least start with the very direct commands that tell what to do in church? Instead of having members of the congregation use their gifts in a meeting to edify one another, allowing tongues and interpretation, multiple prophecies, it seems like those who are into the 'Regulative Principle' are into the 'performance' of the one clergyman preaching a sermon. The 'regulative principle' is used as a justification for arguing about whether a psalter should be sung instead of hymns or repetitive choruses, arguing that scripture, like the psalms, should be sung in church. But then the parts of the psalms that say to dance, shout, clap, etc. aren't followed. It seems like the Regulative Principle is applied inconsistently, with a lot of cherry picking, while specific commands for church meeting in the New Testament itself are ignored."
If you desire to learn, not everyone who holds to the believe in Exclusive Psalmody. Just as there is various beliefs within Protestanism, various beliefs within Reformed Theology, so there is various beliefs as to what else is considered RPW. Instead of generalizing, please respectfully consider reviewing it to different camps.
"The Bible does not teach that we are to gather together as a church to worship. One use of 'worship' is to translate a word that might be translated 'service', a word which could be used to refer to a wide variety of 'service' including clipping grass or liturgical activity. That's how we use the word 'worship.' The word most commonly translated 'worship' means to prostrate, to bow down with one's head toward the ground or floor. Jesus taught that they that prostate to the Father must prostate to him in spirit and in truth."
So apparently the apostles never encouraged and directed the believers to gather and fellowship? I would not want to forsake the assembling of the saints, since it is a form of public worship and a means of grace to bless us.