TRIBULATION LIE
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I was doing some research and I was directed to these Scriptures when doing a study on perseverance or preservation of the saints. Since someone asked
Colossians 3:3-4 "For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
That sounds like we return with the Lord at His second coming, that does sound like we meet Him in the air and turn around and come back to earth with Him. One thing I've noticed about those that don't believe in the rapture, they seem to think the gathering together of the saints and His tendon coming are the same thing, when they are not. Two separate instances, ones the meeting in the air and the other is coming in the clouds of heaven with great poser and glory, which from what Colossians says, we will be a part of with Christ.
Colossians 3:3-4 "For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.4 When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
That sounds like we return with the Lord at His second coming, that does sound like we meet Him in the air and turn around and come back to earth with Him. One thing I've noticed about those that don't believe in the rapture, they seem to think the gathering together of the saints and His tendon coming are the same thing, when they are not. Two separate instances, ones the meeting in the air and the other is coming in the clouds of heaven with great poser and glory, which from what Colossians says, we will be a part of with Christ.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Only can be understood at the time when there is advanced technology,and advanced travel,for the saints can see what the world is doing to understand these things that shall occur around the world.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The world will eventually be at odds with the saints in which they will persecute them worldwide.
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
The surmounting tension of possible nuclear war,and war in general,and the problems on earth,will cause the nations to come together as one to solve their problems,and to prevent war,and achieve peace on earth,like WW1 led to League of Nations,and WW2 led to United Nations,the problems on earth will lead to the world being split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,as the world cooperates together to try to solve problems,prevent war,and obtain peace.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
The world will have a unified religious system,whose standard format is the new age movement,with a false interpretation of Christianity,Islam,and Judaism,to be compatible with the unified religious system.
It will be the time that the world will not want to hear the word of God according to how it has been preached for thousands of years,but want to hear it according to the format of the unified religious system,and Christianity will rapidly decline in impacting the world with the truth,which is a stepping stone to the coming beast kingdom,causing the world to view reality according to spiritual evolution.People has evolved as much as possible physically,not it is about spiritual evolution through nature.
When they say Peace and safety,it becomes a temptation on the whole world,and a decision point for people,and it is not the operation of God,and will lead the world that made the decision to follow the world to the beast kingdom,where they will rebel against God,by establishing a kingdom that is based on the occult,nature worship,and acknowledges no God,but honors the God of forces,or the power of nature as their God.
Jesus will deliver all those that abide in the truth,that act Christlike representing goodness,from that temptation,and hypocrites and the world will be tempted by it.
When they say Peace and safety the 7 years period will begin,and the deception upon the people that do not love God will begin.
The saints are on earth when they say Peace and safety,and they will be delivered from the temptation that shall come upon all the world,that shall try all them that dwell on earth.
During the first three and one half years repentance,and salvation,is still available to the world,so the saints will remain on earth and represent the truth,and God will not go against the world.
Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
The religion of Islam and the world clash,and the ten horn kingdom failed at obtaining peace on earth,and the world turns to the beast to help them,which he has been promoting the new age movement,and the harnessing of nature for power,and spiritual evolution.
6 trumpets,6 disasters the occur on earth that the world knows about,6 warnings to turn to God.After the 6th trumpet the world does not turn to God,and keeps trying to solve their problems,so God gives them the man of sin,the beast,to rule over them.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Israel is protected for the first three and one half year from the deception of the world.
God gives the world the beast to rule over them,and war breaks out in heaven,and the devils are cast to earth,and Satan appears as the beast,and deceives all who do not love God,and persecutes all people that hold the testimony that Jesus is Lord and Savior.
Israel is protected for the last three and one half years from being taken down by the beast.
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
All people who do not love God will follow the beast kingdom,and when they take the mark of the beast,repentance,and salvation,is no longer available to the world,and they make war against all who did not take the mark,which is all people that hold the testimony that Jesus is Lord and Savior.
Continued on next post.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Only can be understood at the time when there is advanced technology,and advanced travel,for the saints can see what the world is doing to understand these things that shall occur around the world.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The world will eventually be at odds with the saints in which they will persecute them worldwide.
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
The surmounting tension of possible nuclear war,and war in general,and the problems on earth,will cause the nations to come together as one to solve their problems,and to prevent war,and achieve peace on earth,like WW1 led to League of Nations,and WW2 led to United Nations,the problems on earth will lead to the world being split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,as the world cooperates together to try to solve problems,prevent war,and obtain peace.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
The world will have a unified religious system,whose standard format is the new age movement,with a false interpretation of Christianity,Islam,and Judaism,to be compatible with the unified religious system.
It will be the time that the world will not want to hear the word of God according to how it has been preached for thousands of years,but want to hear it according to the format of the unified religious system,and Christianity will rapidly decline in impacting the world with the truth,which is a stepping stone to the coming beast kingdom,causing the world to view reality according to spiritual evolution.People has evolved as much as possible physically,not it is about spiritual evolution through nature.
When they say Peace and safety,it becomes a temptation on the whole world,and a decision point for people,and it is not the operation of God,and will lead the world that made the decision to follow the world to the beast kingdom,where they will rebel against God,by establishing a kingdom that is based on the occult,nature worship,and acknowledges no God,but honors the God of forces,or the power of nature as their God.
Jesus will deliver all those that abide in the truth,that act Christlike representing goodness,from that temptation,and hypocrites and the world will be tempted by it.
When they say Peace and safety the 7 years period will begin,and the deception upon the people that do not love God will begin.
The saints are on earth when they say Peace and safety,and they will be delivered from the temptation that shall come upon all the world,that shall try all them that dwell on earth.
During the first three and one half years repentance,and salvation,is still available to the world,so the saints will remain on earth and represent the truth,and God will not go against the world.
Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
Rev 9:19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
The religion of Islam and the world clash,and the ten horn kingdom failed at obtaining peace on earth,and the world turns to the beast to help them,which he has been promoting the new age movement,and the harnessing of nature for power,and spiritual evolution.
6 trumpets,6 disasters the occur on earth that the world knows about,6 warnings to turn to God.After the 6th trumpet the world does not turn to God,and keeps trying to solve their problems,so God gives them the man of sin,the beast,to rule over them.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Israel is protected for the first three and one half year from the deception of the world.
God gives the world the beast to rule over them,and war breaks out in heaven,and the devils are cast to earth,and Satan appears as the beast,and deceives all who do not love God,and persecutes all people that hold the testimony that Jesus is Lord and Savior.
Israel is protected for the last three and one half years from being taken down by the beast.
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
All people who do not love God will follow the beast kingdom,and when they take the mark of the beast,repentance,and salvation,is no longer available to the world,and they make war against all who did not take the mark,which is all people that hold the testimony that Jesus is Lord and Savior.
Continued on next post.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
The beast convinces the world that he harnessed the power of nature,and achieved power through nature,and power over the elements,and the second beast does miracles in the sight of people to convince them that the first beast did receive power through nature,and gave this power to the second beast,and will share this power with all who follow him,which is what the world was striving for,which they believe now when the New Age Christ appears he will restore all the hidden mysteries of the past,and they can get back the occult powers people used to possess.
The world believes that the beast did achieve power over the elements,and say,who is like unto the beast,and who can make war against him,believing he has the power to establish his kingdom,and no foe can stop him.
The miracles will appear to be so real that it would deceive the very elect,if it were possible,but it is not possible,for they are rooted in the truth,having the Holy Spirit.
The beast has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues,and has power to rule,and have his way,for the last three and one half years,so God will not go against them until the three and one half years is over.
God will not go against the world until the 7 years period is over.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
When the beast accomplishes to scatter the power of the holy people then the resurrection shall happen,all that shall remain on earth,and then the wrath of God will be poured out on the world.
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Eze 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
Eze 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
Eze 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.
Eze 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
Eze 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
Eze 38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
Eze 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
Eze 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
The beast and the world will attack Israel,and God will come back with His saints,and save Israel,and punish the world for their sins and iniquities against Him,and end this sin business on earth.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
There is only 2 resurrections,one before the millennial reign of Christ,and one after the millennial reign of Christ.
Jesus and the saints shall rule for 1000 years over the people that God spared at the battle of Armageddon,and at the end of the 1000 years they attack the saints,and God rains fire down on them,and devours them.
The people that Jesus and the saints rule over took the mark of the beast so they still have punishment coming,but God postponed their judgment until the 1000 years is finished.
God is love,and will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him,so God will allow the world their way,and persecute the truth,and all people in the truth,and when they get to Israel,which God turned them to the truth,as the last step to ridding the world of all that is called God,or worshipped,and all who claim Jesus as Lord and Savior,then God will put them down.
The saints will go through the 7 years period,and the saints are on earth when the 7 years period begins.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
The beast convinces the world that he harnessed the power of nature,and achieved power through nature,and power over the elements,and the second beast does miracles in the sight of people to convince them that the first beast did receive power through nature,and gave this power to the second beast,and will share this power with all who follow him,which is what the world was striving for,which they believe now when the New Age Christ appears he will restore all the hidden mysteries of the past,and they can get back the occult powers people used to possess.
The world believes that the beast did achieve power over the elements,and say,who is like unto the beast,and who can make war against him,believing he has the power to establish his kingdom,and no foe can stop him.
The miracles will appear to be so real that it would deceive the very elect,if it were possible,but it is not possible,for they are rooted in the truth,having the Holy Spirit.
The beast has power over all nations,kindreds,and tongues,and has power to rule,and have his way,for the last three and one half years,so God will not go against them until the three and one half years is over.
God will not go against the world until the 7 years period is over.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
When the beast accomplishes to scatter the power of the holy people then the resurrection shall happen,all that shall remain on earth,and then the wrath of God will be poured out on the world.
Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Eze 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
Eze 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
Eze 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.
Eze 38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
Eze 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
Eze 38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
Eze 38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
Eze 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
The beast and the world will attack Israel,and God will come back with His saints,and save Israel,and punish the world for their sins and iniquities against Him,and end this sin business on earth.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
There is only 2 resurrections,one before the millennial reign of Christ,and one after the millennial reign of Christ.
Jesus and the saints shall rule for 1000 years over the people that God spared at the battle of Armageddon,and at the end of the 1000 years they attack the saints,and God rains fire down on them,and devours them.
The people that Jesus and the saints rule over took the mark of the beast so they still have punishment coming,but God postponed their judgment until the 1000 years is finished.
God is love,and will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him,so God will allow the world their way,and persecute the truth,and all people in the truth,and when they get to Israel,which God turned them to the truth,as the last step to ridding the world of all that is called God,or worshipped,and all who claim Jesus as Lord and Savior,then God will put them down.
The saints will go through the 7 years period,and the saints are on earth when the 7 years period begins.
Valiant
Do you not believe there will be Tribulation when the antichrist shows up. The verses I spoke of are very clear telling you Christ WILL NOT come back until after the Antichrist shows up. That's all nothing else. I didn't say anything about a special Tribulation. If you think Gods wrath has already happened your in the twilight zone.
Do you not believe there will be Tribulation when the antichrist shows up. The verses I spoke of are very clear telling you Christ WILL NOT come back until after the Antichrist shows up. That's all nothing else. I didn't say anything about a special Tribulation. If you think Gods wrath has already happened your in the twilight zone.
P
Don't you think that - at whatever point in time the church were to cease to exist on the Earth - that - the powers of darkness "will have won" - since - the church is gone, yet the powers of darkness remain...???
I say it is the truth that the 'church' is not going anywhere... Jesus will return ( to stay ) -- and, the 'church' is not leaving... It will be here at least 1000 years beyond the Second Coming of Christ ( and beyond that on the New Earth, with the New Jerusalem, etc. ). Until after hell is thrown into the lake of fire, the 'church' will be on the Earth. I believe that scripture tells us this.
I realize that the general definition for Strongs G2729 is "to overpower"; therefore, the idea of "not overcoming" is certainly valid. However, the verse does specifically say that it is "the gates of hell" that will not accomplish it. I am not so sure that the equivalence to [ the general idea of ] "powers of darkness" is necessarily as valid. I believe that the true-and-proper understanding rests in the question:
What does it mean for the "gates of hell" to "prevail against" the 'church'?
Jesus could just as easily have said:
The powers of darkness shall not prevail against it.
But, He did not...
I believe that the "full" meaning of this statement is not just a simple "general" / "generic" idea like "powers of darkness"...
I say it is the truth that the 'church' is not going anywhere... Jesus will return ( to stay ) -- and, the 'church' is not leaving... It will be here at least 1000 years beyond the Second Coming of Christ ( and beyond that on the New Earth, with the New Jerusalem, etc. ). Until after hell is thrown into the lake of fire, the 'church' will be on the Earth. I believe that scripture tells us this.
I realize that the general definition for Strongs G2729 is "to overpower"; therefore, the idea of "not overcoming" is certainly valid. However, the verse does specifically say that it is "the gates of hell" that will not accomplish it. I am not so sure that the equivalence to [ the general idea of ] "powers of darkness" is necessarily as valid. I believe that the true-and-proper understanding rests in the question:
What does it mean for the "gates of hell" to "prevail against" the 'church'?
Jesus could just as easily have said:
The powers of darkness shall not prevail against it.
But, He did not...
I believe that the "full" meaning of this statement is not just a simple "general" / "generic" idea like "powers of darkness"...
The Babylonian captivity
400 years of bondage in Egypt
The 3 Hebrew children
Jesus death
And others
But it says specifically the AC kills all refusing the mark.
It could appear he won,but martyrs are not loosers
As usual, I am late to this thread, and I am not reading the whole thing. I see this has become a good discussion (as in not attacking people) of eschatology!
I just want to say to Samuel, should he return, that I wonder why he never uses a single Bible verse when he posts? I know this was dealt with in the first few pages, but he needs to be taken to task again! I may not agree with some of the eschatological viewpoints of some of the people on this thread, but I respect that they have taken time to search out the Scriptures and post them here. Further, although this seems to be a good discussion, I do not understand why Samuel keeps on posting virtually the same OP, which consists of attacking other viewpoints, sending people to hell for their eschatology (wait, when I accused him of believing this on another thread, he admitted that he didn't believe people would go to hell for their eschatology, despite the fact that the way he writes his posts makes everyone think that is what he believes!) No one goes to hell for what they believe about the rapture. We only go to hell for one reason - not believing in Jesus! (I am of course talking about the divine/man Jesus, who died on the cross, and was raised from the dead, and will return one day!)
I am amillennial, don't believe in the rapture, or the millennium, or the so called great tribulation. (Please note, the letters are not capitalized in the Greek! Or everything is capitalized in the majescule texts!) I can support this Biblically, but right now, I am getting ready to go church. Besides, I have posted the Scriptures and the Greek before, and no one has changed their minds about what they believe about end times, so why would I bother?
And to all you amateur Greek "experts," quoting a concordance like Strong's, which always refers to the KJV, errors and all! Someone back a few pages ago, posted something so strange, I knew this person had actually never studied Greek. Plus, with common prepositions like en, ἐν, there is room for variation, and this is one word, that changed a lot in usage from the classical era to the Koine Greek era. En means "in, on, among." But sometimes it means "for," and occasionally other things! Prepositions can be very slippery words. Never make a doctrine out of a preposition!
Plus, I will note again that slapping a preposition onto the beginning of a word (prefix) can result in the meaning of the word, being the word "in" and then the word. Or, it could intensify the word. Kata and meta often do that. Or, it can change to something completely and totally different, leaving you wondering how the meanings of the words in the compound word have so radically changed.
Translating is an science, in that it is a much more complex language than English, and there are a million rules to memorize, and then apply them. Plus, Greek often (Luke comes to mind!) has a radically different word order than English, for very important reasons. The Greeks liked to put the most important word or words in a sentence at the front of the sentence. Sometimes, a verb is thrown in at the end, and it could be several lines or verses later. So no word for word translations, ever! That is a joke!
Translating is also an art. Because, you have to take a language from a different time and culture, and put it in readable, understandable English. That is what I am really working on right now. My Greek prof said one of the things he learned being on the NIV translation committee, is that the translations have to be readable in English. If you translate in such a way that it is hard to understand, regardless of how you stick to the rules, you have really failed.
Which brings me to my last point! I think someone posted in several long posts, all the passages that person thought were applicable to his eschatological view. But, it was all in KJV. I can't read KJV! I don't understand the words. I refuse to plough through (plow for you Americans!) through pages of a version from 400 years ago. I speak Canadian English! But, I do think my English is close enough to American, British, Australian, New Zealander English that there is no difficulty for me to understand modern English from most countries, unless a lot of slang is thrown in. I usually read all the posts with Scriptures, and often I will check "like" just to encourage people to use the Bible more in their posts. Not so KJV. I do not read or give likes to what is a foreign language! I speak French and English fluently, I read Spanish and can understand it quite a bit, and I can stumble through some simple German. I read Biblical Greek quite well, just starting to translate the LXX and the early church fathers, so I am expanding my vocabulary a lot. I can get through Hebrew a bit too, but I have to up my game. When I am finished my Greek course, Hebrew is something I am going to get back into studying!
But I, like most people, do not read or speak King James English, for the simple reason that it is a dead language with no use whatsoever. Like an unbeliever who has no use for Koine Greek, because they don't read the Bible, I have no use for a language that has no modern use. Of course, the KJV onlyists will freak out at this! And I know there are people here who use the KJV, but do not think it is the "only" version. But for the sake of me, and new Christians and non-Christian, couldn't we just agree to use a modern text?
There are so many good versions today! ESV, NASB, NIV, HCSB, NET and then even easier versions. Oh, even NKJV, would be readable, if someone wants! So I beg you, that if you are going to post three pages of Bible verses, make it a version, that a guest, viewing these posts could read, understand, and maybe even be convicted by God? Thanks!
I just want to say to Samuel, should he return, that I wonder why he never uses a single Bible verse when he posts? I know this was dealt with in the first few pages, but he needs to be taken to task again! I may not agree with some of the eschatological viewpoints of some of the people on this thread, but I respect that they have taken time to search out the Scriptures and post them here. Further, although this seems to be a good discussion, I do not understand why Samuel keeps on posting virtually the same OP, which consists of attacking other viewpoints, sending people to hell for their eschatology (wait, when I accused him of believing this on another thread, he admitted that he didn't believe people would go to hell for their eschatology, despite the fact that the way he writes his posts makes everyone think that is what he believes!) No one goes to hell for what they believe about the rapture. We only go to hell for one reason - not believing in Jesus! (I am of course talking about the divine/man Jesus, who died on the cross, and was raised from the dead, and will return one day!)
I am amillennial, don't believe in the rapture, or the millennium, or the so called great tribulation. (Please note, the letters are not capitalized in the Greek! Or everything is capitalized in the majescule texts!) I can support this Biblically, but right now, I am getting ready to go church. Besides, I have posted the Scriptures and the Greek before, and no one has changed their minds about what they believe about end times, so why would I bother?
And to all you amateur Greek "experts," quoting a concordance like Strong's, which always refers to the KJV, errors and all! Someone back a few pages ago, posted something so strange, I knew this person had actually never studied Greek. Plus, with common prepositions like en, ἐν, there is room for variation, and this is one word, that changed a lot in usage from the classical era to the Koine Greek era. En means "in, on, among." But sometimes it means "for," and occasionally other things! Prepositions can be very slippery words. Never make a doctrine out of a preposition!
Plus, I will note again that slapping a preposition onto the beginning of a word (prefix) can result in the meaning of the word, being the word "in" and then the word. Or, it could intensify the word. Kata and meta often do that. Or, it can change to something completely and totally different, leaving you wondering how the meanings of the words in the compound word have so radically changed.
Translating is an science, in that it is a much more complex language than English, and there are a million rules to memorize, and then apply them. Plus, Greek often (Luke comes to mind!) has a radically different word order than English, for very important reasons. The Greeks liked to put the most important word or words in a sentence at the front of the sentence. Sometimes, a verb is thrown in at the end, and it could be several lines or verses later. So no word for word translations, ever! That is a joke!
Translating is also an art. Because, you have to take a language from a different time and culture, and put it in readable, understandable English. That is what I am really working on right now. My Greek prof said one of the things he learned being on the NIV translation committee, is that the translations have to be readable in English. If you translate in such a way that it is hard to understand, regardless of how you stick to the rules, you have really failed.
Which brings me to my last point! I think someone posted in several long posts, all the passages that person thought were applicable to his eschatological view. But, it was all in KJV. I can't read KJV! I don't understand the words. I refuse to plough through (plow for you Americans!) through pages of a version from 400 years ago. I speak Canadian English! But, I do think my English is close enough to American, British, Australian, New Zealander English that there is no difficulty for me to understand modern English from most countries, unless a lot of slang is thrown in. I usually read all the posts with Scriptures, and often I will check "like" just to encourage people to use the Bible more in their posts. Not so KJV. I do not read or give likes to what is a foreign language! I speak French and English fluently, I read Spanish and can understand it quite a bit, and I can stumble through some simple German. I read Biblical Greek quite well, just starting to translate the LXX and the early church fathers, so I am expanding my vocabulary a lot. I can get through Hebrew a bit too, but I have to up my game. When I am finished my Greek course, Hebrew is something I am going to get back into studying!
But I, like most people, do not read or speak King James English, for the simple reason that it is a dead language with no use whatsoever. Like an unbeliever who has no use for Koine Greek, because they don't read the Bible, I have no use for a language that has no modern use. Of course, the KJV onlyists will freak out at this! And I know there are people here who use the KJV, but do not think it is the "only" version. But for the sake of me, and new Christians and non-Christian, couldn't we just agree to use a modern text?
There are so many good versions today! ESV, NASB, NIV, HCSB, NET and then even easier versions. Oh, even NKJV, would be readable, if someone wants! So I beg you, that if you are going to post three pages of Bible verses, make it a version, that a guest, viewing these posts could read, understand, and maybe even be convicted by God? Thanks!
well I prefer to be in the twilight zone with Paul. He said God's wrath was revealed from Heaven in 1st century ad (Romans 1.18). I believe him.
There will be much tribulation for the church (Acts 14,22). But there will not be a special tribulation period at the end more intense than any other..
there have been many periods of intense tribulation,
There will be much tribulation for the church (Acts 14,22). But there will not be a special tribulation period at the end more intense than any other..
there have been many periods of intense tribulation,
That's all fine an dandy, except my explanation explains why we are still here 2000 years later, I did it by using the original meaning as I found it to be. A fixed point in time, where this will all come to pass in a quick manner when it starts.
Now we are here 2000 years later. But of course, I GUESS, you want to suggest it all happened 2000 years ago, which as no cred. So my understanding is correct, because Jesus/God an't lie....so Jesus meant just what I stated. At a fixed point in time, this will come to pass quickly.
Now we are here 2000 years later. But of course, I GUESS, you want to suggest it all happened 2000 years ago, which as no cred. So my understanding is correct, because Jesus/God an't lie....so Jesus meant just what I stated. At a fixed point in time, this will come to pass quickly.
Hi Angela, You bring strange things to my ears(eyes in this case), you cannot comprehend the KJV, you do not believe in the rapture(gathering) of the church, you do not believe in the millennial reign of Christ, or the great tribulation, since all of these teachings are clearly in the bible and accepted by most Christians...what gives?
Well the king james language is not one easily understood I read it sometimes because i get a difference sense of the bible the king james version i could be mistaken but i believe it's called old english with words such as thy a thee.
This is not a language easily understood by modern day people even though i enjoy reading it i myself have a hard time understanding it. As for Angela not believing in those things yes it is accepted by most Christians but you will find that sometimes even the most wise and spiritually mature of Christians do not believe in the same things that most do.
This is not a language easily understood by modern day people even though i enjoy reading it i myself have a hard time understanding it. As for Angela not believing in those things yes it is accepted by most Christians but you will find that sometimes even the most wise and spiritually mature of Christians do not believe in the same things that most do.
Hi Blain, I read a KJV along with others, however I have not read the old style English version for many years, the KJ I read is in modern English and in most cases very easy to understand. I am not liberal when it comes to the bible, I believe we need to accept what it is saying in context, because I believe it really is from God. I come from a different perspective then many, God actually talked to me at salvation, I never read the bible until 4 years after I was saved(read it and weep), when I begin to read the bible I studied it every day for several years without any outside person telling me how to interpret it(God was my interpreter). I noticed when young that some older Christians taught different then what I found in the bible and was at the point of going along with them when the Lord spoke to me and said, you have to chose, you either believe God or man, I said I want to believe God and after that I had no problem standing on the word no matter what others had to say. It is very important to get the actual meaning that God is telling us through the scriptures, otherwise we end up missing God in an important area.
LOL.........No I mean it means what it means, not what people who are way out in left field says it means. I have been a preacher for over 30 years, believe me, I guffaw at what I see in here at times. People do not need to back up anything they say, they just blurt it out.
I mean all Revelation happened 2000 years ago,
The Abomination of Desolation happened before Jesus was born, even though Jesus warned us what to watch for when it comes..............Then those who say the AoD happened in AD 70, when anyone who can read can see by looking at Daniel 12:1-2, Matthew 24:14-22 and Rev. 12 that the Abomination can only be an end time event. Yet they wll deny it until they are blue in the face. Its called PRIDE....They can't be wrong.
I have been proven wrong by God many times, because when He is willing to reveal this to me, my understanding goes out the door. Rev. 17:18, I wrote a blog, and stated that it was Rome......God 2 months later taps me on the Shoulder, hey Ron, you were wrong. Its Rome, NYC, Jerusalem, Mecca, the RCC, NYC, America its not even a City....wheres who it is. I don't mind being wrong at all. Some people can't hear God because they can't ever be wrong.
I mean all Revelation happened 2000 years ago,
The Abomination of Desolation happened before Jesus was born, even though Jesus warned us what to watch for when it comes..............Then those who say the AoD happened in AD 70, when anyone who can read can see by looking at Daniel 12:1-2, Matthew 24:14-22 and Rev. 12 that the Abomination can only be an end time event. Yet they wll deny it until they are blue in the face. Its called PRIDE....They can't be wrong.
I have been proven wrong by God many times, because when He is willing to reveal this to me, my understanding goes out the door. Rev. 17:18, I wrote a blog, and stated that it was Rome......God 2 months later taps me on the Shoulder, hey Ron, you were wrong. Its Rome, NYC, Jerusalem, Mecca, the RCC, NYC, America its not even a City....wheres who it is. I don't mind being wrong at all. Some people can't hear God because they can't ever be wrong.
I am in the same boat. When i was saved I had no one to teach me how to be a Christian or even what it means to be a Christian i had no one to teach me how to read the bible or how to interpret it I only had god as my teacher. Even as a brand new believer I saw the power that flows through those pages and within the first week of being saved i had a vision in which i was sitting on my bed with the bible open and i placed my right hand on it and closed my eyes to pray even with my eyes closed I could see the power and love of God flowing through the pages almost like waves or pulses suddenly a powerful fire erupted form the bible traveling from it up my arm and infusing in me when i opened my eyes they were not my eye they were a blazing fire and I could truly see.
With these eyes of fire there was no secret in the bible I could not see there was nothing hidden that I could not understand the word of God and the very heart of God himself was an open book to me in which could search to my hearts content with no limitations and nothing hidden from my eyes. When i read the bible I do so differently and with different eyes than the average Christian because for me I am not simply reading and studying the bible I am reading and studying the very heart of God himself. I do not read the bible with my own set of beliefs and views set in stone because to understand the heart of God you must have an open and teachable heart and have the willingness to lay it all down in order for him to show you the truth.
Another thing that is absolutely vital is to see through loves eyes, God is very clever he specifically made the bible in a way where only those whose hearts are infused with deep and agape love could truly see and read it. The bible is like an onion or the earths crust it has many layers most people can see the first or perhaps the third layer at most through much study however the eyes to be able to see and understand the deeper layers requires a heart that is nothing short of love. The deeper the love infused in our hearts the more we see through loves eyes. Because after all only love can truly see.
With these eyes of fire there was no secret in the bible I could not see there was nothing hidden that I could not understand the word of God and the very heart of God himself was an open book to me in which could search to my hearts content with no limitations and nothing hidden from my eyes. When i read the bible I do so differently and with different eyes than the average Christian because for me I am not simply reading and studying the bible I am reading and studying the very heart of God himself. I do not read the bible with my own set of beliefs and views set in stone because to understand the heart of God you must have an open and teachable heart and have the willingness to lay it all down in order for him to show you the truth.
Another thing that is absolutely vital is to see through loves eyes, God is very clever he specifically made the bible in a way where only those whose hearts are infused with deep and agape love could truly see and read it. The bible is like an onion or the earths crust it has many layers most people can see the first or perhaps the third layer at most through much study however the eyes to be able to see and understand the deeper layers requires a heart that is nothing short of love. The deeper the love infused in our hearts the more we see through loves eyes. Because after all only love can truly see.