BAPTISM --- TWICE ??

[eternally-gratefull]

Your post is to BillG.

I can agree with all of it. Even the idea that teens should not be baptized.
My daugter became born again at the age of 14 and she still is. She has a family now.

However, many teens THINK they want to follow God and then fall away.
As you believe, I also believe that one must continue in the faith to be saved.

However, you said something in your last statement that I don't understand.
Are you saying that Paul was not saved UNTIL he was baptized??

I think Jesus said to win the children over, it is much easier to become a person of faith when your young, before you have been perverted with the world. then later in life.

Now I think alot of teens or younger get saved and baptised because it is their parents wish and they want to make their parents happy, But do not have faith

But mny (myself included) am glad I made my choice as a child..

 

[Grace777x70]

what if he stops having faith in you, or that you were his true father? Is he still your son?

Of course he is still my son. He is just listening to a false spirit that is deceiving him. True faith is of the heart and not in the head. People can have wrong beliefs in their minds and yet that doesn't change the essence of who they truly are.

 

[FranC]

I have a son that was born-again when he was young ( where he was baptized into Christ ) - and here is the absolute truth part - He is still my son no matter what he did or didn't do. He is my son "by birth".

He cannot "un-born " himself from being my son no matter how messed up in his mind and thinking he gets.

You can't change baptism into OSAS.
I know you say this all the time as Others here do.
Here's the difference:

YOU aren't God.
It's OK to use humans to understand God in some cases. It DOES help us.
However, we shouldn't forget that God is ALMIGHTY, PURE, HOLY, A BLINDING LIGHT, PERFECT

WE are not like that. Our demands are not as great as God's.
He had to kill His only begotten Son to break our slavery to satan.
YOU don't have to kill ONE SON, to save all the other ones.

I just think that sometimes we belittle God by speaking as though HE is like US.
Job 38:4...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's what they call the first sin commited.
The first disobedience toward God.

The difference is that they impute this sin to all mankind.
Protestants don't --- we believe we just suffer from the effects of original sin.

It's in the bible... it's just that it's seen differently by different theologians.
Some impute
Some don't

Both agree that the effects are with us. (of course).

it comes from the view of in adam all die, How do we die, since death is caused by sin, The answer was adams origional sin.

The catholic view of baptizing babies aside (that does not remove origional sin) Many protestants do believe in this thought that the whole world is placed in Adam, thus suffer the fate of his one sin, so we can all have the opportunity to be placed under the second adam, and his lack of sin.

anyway, it is complicated do not want to hijack your thread.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course he is still my son. He is just listening to a false spirit that is deceiving him. True faith is of the heart and not in the head. People can have wrong beliefs in their minds and yet that doesn't change the essence of who they truly are.

of course, You can not change the blood..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can't change baptism into OSAS.
I know you say this all the time as Others here do.
Here's the difference:

YOU aren't God.
It's OK to use humans to understand God in some cases. It DOES help us.
However, we shouldn't forget that God is ALMIGHTY, PURE, HOLY, A BLINDING LIGHT, PERFECT

WE are not like that. Our demands are not as great as God's.
He had to kill His only begotten Son to break our slavery to satan.
YOU don't have to kill ONE SON, to save all the other ones.

I just think that sometimes we belittle God by speaking as though HE is like US.
Job 38:4...

I wish people would stop focusing on some doctrine they heard about, and start focusing on the word of God.

I think people are so OSAS conscious they are not seeing the picture of what others are trying to say.

The bible says if an evil man can love his child and give him great gifts, How much more will God who is not evil give those he loves.

Take the greatest dad who ever lived, and he can not even begin to love his child as much as God loves us, So when we take a human and try to share how God treats his children, we can always Know God will love his child much much more than the human example we gave.

So yes, we can use a human example, in fact God did it all the time in his word.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Water baptism will never save anyone anyway, if the person place their faith in Christ, god himself baptized the person into Christ, that is what saves,

Yes!
A true jew is one who has had his heart circumcised - not his flesh.
And a true Baptism is not performed by human hands either.
Each man should follow his own conscience in this. If he has never been baptized in water but he has received the Holy Spirit and his conscience is not bothered, no man should disturb him, because he realizes the sacraments of the church are pictures of the real matter, in spirit.

If another man is bothered in conscience, no one should disturb him either if he wants the sacrament of the church. He won't be harmed by it. Only his suit may be harmed!

 

[FranC]

I wish people would stop focusing on some doctrine they heard about, and start focusing on the word of God.

I think people are so OSAS conscious they are not seeing the picture of what others are trying to say.

The bible says if an evil man can love his child and give him great gifts, How much more will God who is not evil give those he loves.

Take the greatest dad who ever lived, and he can not even begin to love his child as much as God loves us, So when we take a human and try to share how God treats his children, we can always Know God will love his child much much more than the human example we gave.

So yes, we can use a human example, in fact God did it all the time in his word.

You just said above that God gives gifts to those He loves.
Does He give gifts to those who are evil and serving satan?
Psalm 11:5-7

 

[FranC]

Of course he is still my son. He is just listening to a false spirit that is deceiving him. True faith is of the heart and not in the head. People can have wrong beliefs in their minds and yet that doesn't change the essence of who they truly are.

I don't want to change the thread, but...
Luke 15:24

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't want to change the thread, but...
Luke 15:24

He never stopped being the son, He always was the son, He had no life, and now is made alive again,

It talks about our walk on earth, (are we blessed, Are we living a life that is meaningful, or are we not blessed, and our spirit quenched because of what we are doing at the time) not our position in our parents.

 

[hornetguy]

I agree with what you've said except the part about women, MAYBE, not being baptized.
Jesus made it a point to include women in His preaching and in His ministry.
Woman were honored LESS at the time of Jesus than at the time of Moses.
So, I'd have to say that in the preaching of Paul and Peter and the Others, they did include women although
they did not want them to preach.

As for AllenW's comment, I think there's a misunderstanding.
Here's his post...It looks like he's agreeing with you about children being baptized:


Originally Posted by AllenW View Post

In Acts 16:31 and beyond, salvation was offered to the jailer and his household.
The jailer believed, had his whole household baptized, then they rejoiced because THEY ALL BELIEVED IN GOD!
Therefore, infants could not have been included unless they had the ability to believe.

Yes, I agree with what he said... I think I misread it at first.

I DO believe the women were baptized, as well... I was just trying to point out that in that society, many times the women were not included as being part of the "group" being discussed.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus said, “Have the people [SUP][c][/SUP]sit down.” Now there was much grass in the place. So the men [SUP][d][/SUP]sat down, in number about five thousand.

He gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the crowds, [SUP]20 [/SUP]and they all ate and were satisfied. They picked up what was left over of the broken pieces, twelve full baskets. [SUP]21 [/SUP]There were about five thousand men who ate, besides women and children.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]But Peter, [SUP][o][/SUP]taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: “Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man [SUP][r][/SUP]attested to you by God with [SUP][s][/SUP]miracles and wonders and [SUP][t][/SUP]signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know—

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You just said above that God gives gifts to those He loves.
Does He give gifts to those who are evil and serving satan?
Psalm 11:5-7

According to John, a child of God can not do this.


1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So what would be the point of your question?

now before we came to God, We were evil, and we were serving satan, Yet God died for us when we were evil, and saved us while we were evil, and changed us into a new creation.

 

[hornetguy]

Lol, those are some good examples;

Being baptized in a vat of beer...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa

That's good!

And baptizing pets, please stop, some people will start doing it..

But drugs I believe are mentioned, sort of, when Paul tells Timothy I believe that we need to always be sober minded.

I don't think "sober minded" has anything to do with our state of inebriation... it means to be serious about what you are doing... don't be an air-head...

adjective. The definition of sober-minded is someone who is serious and sensible. A person who is studious and logical is an example of someone who would be described as sober-minded.

 

[BeyondET]

Who says babies can't comprehend, God can comprehend the babies heart.

[video=youtube;SwKLKcN5_uw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwKLKcN5_uw[/video]

 

[AllenW]

I don't think "sober minded" has anything to do with our state of inebriation... it means to be serious about what you are doing... don't be an air-head...

And can you be that way if you are on drugs?
If you are on an LSD trip for instance.
The answer is no, so it's very appropriate.

 

[hornetguy]

A true jew is one who has had his heart circumcised - not his flesh.

I disagree with your premise... to be a Jew REQUIRED the physical act of circumcision. If it was not required, then why do it at all?

A Jewish man could stand and say all day long "I am a true Jew, because I follow God".... but if he had refused circumcision, he would NOT have been a Jew. It was HIS part of accepting the covenant.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Jesus was baptised twice. The Jews did take their babies to the priest to be devoted and then He was baptised by John the Baptist.

Unfortunately I am not sure what you call infant baptism when it is the Jewish ritual. In Afrikaans directly translated it will be a devotion/blessing of the child...

 

[hornetguy]

And can you be that way if you are on drugs?
If you are on an LSD trip for instance.
The answer is no, so it's very appropriate.

Good point.

 

[BeyondET]

I disagree with your premise... to be a Jew REQUIRED the physical act of circumcision. If it was not required, then why do it at all?

A Jewish man could stand and say all day long "I am a true Jew, because I follow God".... but if he had refused circumcision, he would NOT have been a Jew. It was HIS part of accepting the covenant.

The physical act of being circumcised was preformed while a baby, even Jesus was circumcised at eight days old.

when a person is circumised as today the older they are the more complicated it would have been,

 

[FranC]

Jesus was baptised twice. The Jews did take their babies to the priest to be devoted and then He was baptised by John the Baptist.

Unfortunately I am not sure what you call infant baptism when it is the Jewish ritual. In Afrikaans directly translated it will be a devotion/blessing of the child...

Jesus was baptized one time.
By John the Baptist in the River Jordan when He was about 30 years old.

When Jesus was a baby, He was presented at the temple, to the LORD. (God Father).
According to the Law of Moses.
Jesus was the first born.
Numbers 3:13

It's what we would call today, dedicating the baby to God.