BAPTISM --- TWICE ??

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Nov 22, 2015
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lol, Have you ever studied the greek word? The word baptizo was a very popular word in greek culture, and very little of the word usage had anything to do with water.

so yeah, Sorry, but this is not true

Baptizo is a word which means to immerse or place into, it was also used in the day of a person who died garments (gave them their color) a baptizer was a person who did the dying.

so it had many uses, not just to immerse in water.

As for biblical support. Paul says the children of Israel were baptized into moses, No one would have though all the people of Isreal were taken to the river and immersed in water, EVERYONE would have understood they were placed into moses, moses being the spiritual head. Just like we are baptized into Christ, Christ being the spiritual head.

in fact, the whole issue comes to a word, Baptize is not even a native English word, and it is not the definition or interpretation of the Greek word (baptizo) it is a transliteration. Which was a huge mistake, if they just interpreted the word. we would not be having this conversation.
I agree....some people see the word "baptized" and all they can think about is water. Being baptized has been used as a representation in scripture and obviously it speaks of what happened to believers in Christ when they believed.

Acts 10:43-48 clearly shows that people get water baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit when they were baptized into the body of Christ when they believed after hearing the gospel of the grace of Christ. Eph. 1:13 shows this truth too.

Here is an example of baptize being used in relation to Moses as a representative of something else besides water.

1 Corinthians 10:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]
and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
 
Apr 30, 2016
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lol, Have you ever studied the greek word? The word baptizo was a very popular word in greek culture, and very little of the word usage had anything to do with water.

so yeah, Sorry, but this is not true

Baptizo is a word which means to immerse or place into, it was also used in the day of a person who died garments (gave them their color) a baptizer was a person who did the dying.

so it had many uses, not just to immerse in water.

As for biblical support. Paul says the children of Israel were baptized into moses, No one would have though all the people of Isreal were taken to the river and immersed in water, EVERYONE would have understood they were placed into moses, moses being the spiritual head. Just like we are baptized into Christ, Christ being the spiritual head.

in fact, the whole issue comes to a word, Baptize is not even a native English word, and it is not the definition or interpretation of the Greek word (baptizo) it is a transliteration. Which was a huge mistake, if they just interpreted the word. we would not be having this conversation.
The above is for Hornetguy.

I just want to say that a Jewish acquaintance of mine told me about the dying aspect of the word and how it meant what you said.

It's a transliteration. OK.
But when the bible was translated from the Greek to the Latin then back to the Greek and into English, don't you agree that the translators were intelligent enough to use the right word and that the theologians were able to exegete verses and correctly translate them?

If you don't think so, how could we trust anything the bible says??
(this is why I hate discussing the Greek, although I know it's important)
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Agreed, and Jesus also said " No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

Works accompany faith, it's not rocket science to all.

Btw, all glory be to God our Father who leads us in the power of His love, in Jesus Christ.

Good day to all of you.

May God's love,mercy and peace keep you all....... in Christ Jesus.
Check out my signature line ...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
The above is for Hornetguy.

I just want to say that a Jewish acquaintance of mine told me about the dying aspect of the word and how it meant what you said.

It's a transliteration. OK.
But when the bible was translated from the Greek to the Latin then back to the Greek and into English, don't you agree that the translators were intelligent enough to use the right word and that the theologians were able to exegete verses and correctly translate them?

If you don't think so, how could we trust anything the bible says??
(this is why I hate discussing the Greek, although I know it's important)

a transliteration means a new word was made, formed by the old word.

ie, the greek baptizo became an english word baptize (take the O and change it to e)

The greek word baptizmo became the english word baptism

the only way to properly get the definition would be to go look up the defenition in the greek, since it is a native greek word not english

what has happened is people have taken the English word, and made it basically mean whatever they want to support their own theory of what it means.



the English language is in itself a bad enough language, let alone using non native english words, which anyone can make mean whatever they want. That is why the greek is important. Why did they transliterate the word and not translate? I can not answer, although I know they were not inspired.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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But Paul was talking about spiritual things, comparing the physical circumcision of the Jew to our "spiritual circumcision" as Christians.. he was saying that just being circumcised qualified you to be "Jewish".... but that now, it takes a spiritual circumcision.... a marking of our hearts to be considered a "new Jew", or Christian. Just a physical act won't cut it.... that is also a very bad pun....:eek:

Paul was a Pharisee... he would have NEVER said that circumcision for Jews was only a mental/spiritual state of being....
Hmm...I wasn't talking about Paul before he met God...
But now that you mention it, I believe his view on physical circumcision changed after he met God. He gives many indications of this in his writing.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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What do you mean MMD?

In John 4:10,14 Jesus is explaining to the Samaritan woman that HE is the Living Water.

In John 3:5 Jesus says that one must be born of water and spirit. So are you saying Jesus is the water?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In John 7:37-39 Jesus says that streams of living water will flow out of those who believe in Him.

verse 39 clearly states that the Living Water is the Holy Spirt, which had not yet been given since Jesus was not glorified.

The Living Water is the Holy Spirit.
Joel 2:28 God will pour out His Spirit just like the Living Waters will pour out of those who believe in Jesus.
John 1:33 The one coming AFTER John the Baptist will baptize with the Holy Spirit.

And, in fact, this is what happens in Acts 2:15-17

Acts 2:15-17 New International Version (NIV)

15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning!
16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

The people were elated at having received the Holy Spirit...Peter was telling the crowd that they were not drunk.



We can safely say that in John 3:5 Jesus did not mean this Living Water that you mention.

It's accepted by all theologians that Jesus either meant:

Natural Birth
or
Baptism

Also, Jesus DID say that we are to be baptized.
John 3:5 - Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John 4:10 - Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.

John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Titus 3:5 - not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

John 15:3 - You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Ephesians 5:26 - that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word.

1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

I understand that the Holy Spirit is the instrument of both the cleansing and the birth of the divine nature in us. "Water" intensifies and magnifies "Spirit" by means of the many figurative ways God's Holy Spirit is shown working: as a means of God's light-and life-giving Word, of spiritual power, and of cleansing. Water is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. Baptism does not avail to cleanse the heart from defilement, but our Lord did say, "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you" (John 15:3).
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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I'll try to keep this organized...

Baptizo is a word which means to immerse or place into, it was also used in the day of a person who died garments (gave them their color) a baptizer was a person who did the dying.
Yes, that is true... the dye was a liquid, just as water is a liquid. The CONCEPT of baptizo (to immerse) was to completely dip something into a liquid... to IMMERSE it in the liquid. Therefore, when the concept of baptism (our word for it) was mentioned, it was understood by the people of that time as being immersed into a liquid (water).

The concept of a "virtual" immersion didn't come along until Jesus started talking about a spiritual baptism.... being immersed in the Spirit.

As for biblical support. Paul says the children of Israel were baptized into moses, No one would have though all the people of Isreal were taken to the river and immersed in water, EVERYONE would have understood they were placed into moses, moses being the spiritual head. Just like we are baptized into Christ, Christ being the spiritual head.
Yes.... PAUL said that, after Jesus' concept of immersion in the spiritual sense was made known. The OT folks that spoke Greek (and the people at Pentecost) had NO concept of a spiritual baptism. To them, baptizo meant to immerse in water.

The Ethiopian eunuch knew this, and his ONLY concept of baptism involved water. He did not ask Philip, can I be spiritually baptized now? He said, look! There's some water! Is there any reason why I cannot be baptized?

In fact, I cannot remember ANY example before Jesus, where the term baptizo had anything to do with a spiritual, or virtual immersion...

Baptism, from my study and reading, ALWAYS meant a full immersion into some type of liquid... most of the time water... unless you were dyeing cloth, of course...
Then, Jesus came along, and gave us a whole new concept (new covenant) of how things work in his kingdom. We no longer have the "hard copy" law... we have guidelines... (not just 'don't murder', but don't even HATE someone)

The same goes for baptism.... not only are we to be immersed in water, but we will also be immersed spiritually.... a totally new concept.

One did not eliminate the other, they complement each other.. not only are you being physically immersed in water, but you are also being spiritually immersed...
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'll try to keep this organized...
Yes, that is true... the dye was a liquid, just as water is a liquid. The CONCEPT of baptizo (to immerse) was to completely dip something into a liquid... to IMMERSE it in the liquid. Therefore, when the concept of baptism (our word for it) was mentioned, it was understood by the people of that time as being immersed into a liquid (water).
The concept of a "virtual" immersion didn't come along until Jesus started talking about a spiritual baptism.... being immersed in the Spirit.
Yes.... PAUL said that, after Jesus' concept of immersion in the spiritual sense was made known. The OT folks that spoke Greek (and the people at Pentecost) had NO concept of a spiritual baptism. To them, baptizo meant to immerse in water.
The Ethiopian eunuch knew this, and his ONLY concept of baptism involved water. He did not ask Philip, can I be spiritually baptized now? He said, look! There's some water! Is there any reason why I cannot be baptized?

In fact, I cannot remember ANY example before Jesus, where the term baptizo had anything to do with a spiritual, or virtual immersion...

Baptism, from my study and reading, ALWAYS meant a full immersion into some type of liquid... most of the time water... unless you were dyeing cloth, of course...
Then, Jesus came along, and gave us a whole new concept (new covenant) of how things work in his kingdom. We no longer have the "hard copy" law... we have guidelines... (not just 'don't murder', but don't even HATE someone)

The same goes for baptism.... not only are we to be immersed in water, but we will also be immersed spiritually.... a totally new concept.

One did not eliminate the other, they complement each other.. not only are you being physically immersed in water, but you are also being spiritually immersed...
the following is taken from weist.. word studies in the greek new testament..

Baptise, baptism, these two words are not native to the english language, therefore do not have any intrinsic meaning of their own. The only rightfull meaning they can have is the one derived from the greek word of which they are the spelling. The verb is spelled Baptizo, from which a slight change in spelling we get our worde baptize, the noun is baptisma, and taking off the last letter we have baptism.

we will study these words first in their classic usage. The word baptizo is related to another greek word bapto. the latter meant to dip, dip under. it was used of the smith tempering the red hot steel. it was also used of the sense of to dip in die, to colour or steep. it was used in the act of dieing the hair, and of glazing earthen vessels. it was used as a proverb in the sense of "steeping someone in crimson". that is giving him a bloddy caxcomb. It meant also to fill by dipping in, to draw. It was used of a ship that dipped, that is sank. Baptiso the related word meant to dip repeatedly. it was used of the act of sinking ships. it meant also to bathe. it was used in the phrase soaked in wine. where the word soaked, is the meaning of baptizo. it is found in the phrase overhead and ears in debt, where the word overhead and ears, are the graphic nature of what the word meant. the word here therefor means completely submerged. our present day english equivilent would be sunk. A baptes is one who dips or dyes. a baptisis is a dipping, bathing, a washing, a drawing of water. A baptisma is that which is dipped, a baptisteron is a bathing place, a baptistes is one that dips, a dyer, baptos means dipped, dyed. bright colored, drawn like water.

Baptizo is used in the 9th book of the odyssey, where the hissing of the burning eye of the cyclops is compaired to the sound of water where the smith dips ( baptizo) a piece of iron, tempering it. , in the battle of frogs and mice, it is said that a mouse thrust a frog with a reed, and the frogged leaped over the water, dying ( baptizo ) the water with blood. Euripides uses the word as a ship which goes down in the water and does not come back to the surface. Lucian dreams that he has seen a huge bird shot with a mighty arrow, and as it flies high in the air, it dies ( baptizo) the earth with his blood. in Xenophon's Anabasis, we have the instance where the Greek soldiers placed ( baptizo) the points of their spears in a bowl of blood.

We come now to the usage of these words in the koine greek, giving examples from the papyri, the LXX, and the new testament.
In secular documents of the koine period, moulton and Milligan report the following uses of baptise.. A submerged boat, ceremonial ablusions, a person flooded or overwhelmed in calamities. they say that the word was used in its metaphorical sense even among the uneducated of people. . A biblical example of this is found in our Lords speaking of his passion as a baptism ( matt 10: 38), these scholars report the use of bapto as referring to fullers and dyers. the word is used of colored garments, and of wool to be dyed. the word baptisma is found in a question regaurding a new baptism someone is reported to be preaching. This use of the noun is peculiar to the N.T. and to ecclesiastical writers.

In the LXX we have in leviticus 4: 6 the words, and the priest shall dip ( bapto) his finger in the blood, and sprinkle (prosraino) of the blood seven times before the Lord. Here the word Bapto is found juxtaposition to prostriano, a verb closely allied with prozrantizo, baptiso meaning to dip, the latter verb to sprinkle

In the NT we have the rich man asking that lazerus dip ( bapto) his finger in water and cool his tongue. ( luke 16: 24 ). In Heb 9: 10, Baptisma is translated washings and refers to the ceremonial ablusions of Judaism. In Mark 7: 4 Baptisma is used of the ceremonial washings of cups, pots, brazen vessels and tables, Baptisma is used in Matt 3: 7 and baptizo in matt 3: 16 and 1 cor 14 of the rite of water baptism. In Mark 10: 38 our Lord speaks of his sufferings on the cross as the baptisma with which he is to be baptizo.

In these examples we see various uses of the words bapto and baptizo we discover three distinct usages, a mechanical, a ceremonial and a metaphoricle one.

The mechanical usage can be illustrated by the action of the smith dipping the hot iron in water, tempering it, or the dyer dipping the cloth in the dye for the purpose of dying it. these instances of the use of our greek word, give us the following defenition of the word in its mechanical usage. the word refers to the introduction or placing of a person or thing into a new environment or into union with something else, as to alter its condition or its relationship to its previous environment or condition. While the word, we found, had other uses, yet the one that predominated above the others was the mechanical one. Observe how perfectly the meaning is in accord with the usage of the word in rom 6: 3- 4. where the believing sinner is baptized into vital union with Jesus Christ. The believing sinner is introduced or placed in Christ, thus comming into union with him. By that action, he is taken out of his old environment and condition in which he had lived, the first adam, and is placed into a new environment and condition, the last Adam. By this action his condition is changed from that of a lost sinner with a totally depraved nature to that of a saint with a devine nature. His relationship to the law of God is changed from that of a guilty sinner to that of a justified saint. All this is accomplish with the act of the Holy Spirit introducing, or placing us into vital union with Jesus Christ. No ceremony of water baptism ever did that! The entire context is supernatural in its character. The greek word here should not be transliterated but translated. The translation should read; " as many were introduced (placed ) into Christ jesus, into his death were introduced. therefore we were buried with him through the aformentioned introduction into his death. The same holds true for 1 cor 12: 13; which should be translated " for through the instrumentality of one spirit, we were all placed into one body."

It is because we so often associate the english word "baptism" with the rite of water baptism, that we read that ceremony into Romans 6.

Hope this helps.. It takes the greek word and shows how it was used in Christs day. As it sure helped me.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
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Hmm...I wasn't talking about Paul before he met God...
But now that you mention it, I believe his view on physical circumcision changed after he met God. He gives many indications of this in his writing.
Yes, you are correct... the physical aspect of circumcision was the old law, so Paul saw the futility of trying to impose circumcision on new Christians.... although, I believe he DID insist that Timothy be circumcised, to help with his witness to the Jewish nation...
 
Apr 30, 2016
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a transliteration means a new word was made, formed by the old word.

ie, the greek baptizo became an english word baptize (take the O and change it to e)

The greek word baptizmo became the english word baptism

the only way to properly get the definition would be to go look up the defenition in the greek, since it is a native greek word not english

what has happened is people have taken the English word, and made it basically mean whatever they want to support their own theory of what it means.



the English language is in itself a bad enough language, let alone using non native english words, which anyone can make mean whatever they want. That is why the greek is important. Why did they transliterate the word and not translate? I can not answer, although I know they were not inspired.
They didn't translate because there was no word for it.

As you know, I speak more than one language and I come across this often.

However, a MEANING was given to the word baptize.

I can tell you an italian word that's an expression and may not be in a dictionary.
However, once I explain it, the next time I use it you should know what it means.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,397
113
the following is taken from weist.. word studies in the greek new testament..

Baptise, baptism, these two words are not native to the english language, therefore do not have any intrinsic meaning of their own. The only rightfull meaning they can have is the one derived from the greek word of which they are the spelling. The verb is spelled Baptizo, from which a slight change in spelling we get our worde baptize, the noun is baptisma, and taking off the last letter we have baptism.

we will study these words first in their classic usage. The word baptizo is related to another greek word bapto. the latter meant to dip, dip under. it was used of the smith tempering the red hot steel. it was also used of the sense of to dip in die, to colour or steep. it was used in the act of dieing the hair, and of glazing earthen vessels. it was used as a proverb in the sense of "steeping someone in crimson". that is giving him a bloddy caxcomb. It meant also to fill by dipping in, to draw. It was used of a ship that dipped, that is sank. Baptiso the related word meant to dip repeatedly. it was used of the act of sinking ships. it meant also to bathe. it was used in the phrase soaked in wine. where the word soaked, is the meaning of baptizo. it is found in the phrase overhead and ears in debt, where the word overhead and ears, are the graphic nature of what the word meant. the word here therefor means completely submerged. our present day english equivilent would be sunk. A baptes is one who dips or dyes. a baptisis is a dipping, bathing, a washing, a drawing of water. A baptisma is that which is dipped, a baptisteron is a bathing place, a baptistes is one that dips, a dyer, baptos means dipped, dyed. bright colored, drawn like water.

Baptizo is used in the 9th book of the odyssey, where the hissing of the burning eye of the cyclops is compaired to the sound of water where the smith dips ( baptizo) a piece of iron, tempering it. , in the battle of frogs and mice, it is said that a mouse thrust a frog with a reed, and the frogged leaped over the water, dying ( baptizo ) the water with blood. Euripides uses the word as a ship which goes down in the water and does not come back to the surface. Lucian dreams that he has seen a huge bird shot with a mighty arrow, and as it flies high in the air, it dies ( baptizo) the earth with his blood. in Xenophon's Anabasis, we have the instance where the Greek soldiers placed ( baptizo) the points of their spears in a bowl of blood.

We come now to the usage of these words in the koine greek, giving examples from the papyri, the LXX, and the new testament.
In secular documents of the koine period, moulton and Milligan report the following uses of baptise.. A submerged boat, ceremonial ablusions, a person flooded or overwhelmed in calamities. they say that the word was used in its metaphorical sense even among the uneducated of people. . A biblical example of this is found in our Lords speaking of his passion as a baptism ( matt 10: 38), these scholars report the use of bapto as referring to fullers and dyers. the word is used of colored garments, and of wool to be dyed. the word baptisma is found in a question regaurding a new baptism someone is reported to be preaching. This use of the noun is peculiar to the N.T. and to ecclesiastical writers.

In the LXX we have in leviticus 4: 6 the words, and the priest shall dip ( bapto) his finger in the blood, and sprinkle (prosraino) of the blood seven times before the Lord. Here the word Bapto is found juxtaposition to prostriano, a verb closely allied with prozrantizo, baptiso meaning to dip, the latter verb to sprinkle

In the NT we have the rich man asking that lazerus dip ( bapto) his finger in water and cool his tongue. ( luke 16: 24 ). In Heb 9: 10, Baptisma is translated washings and refers to the ceremonial ablusions of Judaism. In Mark 7: 4 Baptisma is used of the ceremonial washings of cups, pots, brazen vessels and tables, Baptisma is used in Matt 3: 7 and baptizo in matt 3: 16 and 1 cor 14 of the rite of water baptism. In Mark 10: 38 our Lord speaks of his sufferings on the cross as the baptisma with which he is to be baptizo.

In these examples we see various uses of the words bapto and baptizo we discover three distinct usages, a mechanical, a ceremonial and a metaphoricle one.

The mechanical usage can be illustrated by the action of the smith dipping the hot iron in water, tempering it, or the dyer dipping the cloth in the dye for the purpose of dying it. these instances of the use of our greek word, give us the following defenition of the word in its mechanical usage. the word refers to the introduction or placing of a person or thing into a new environment or into union with something else, as to alter its condition or its relationship to its previous environment or condition. While the word, we found, had other uses, yet the one that predominated above the others was the mechanical one. Observe how perfectly the meaning is in accord with the usage of the word in rom 6: 3- 4. where the believing sinner is baptized into vital union with Jesus Christ. The believing sinner is introduced or placed in Christ, thus comming into union with him. By that action, he is taken out of his old environment and condition in which he had lived, the first adam, and is placed into a new environment and condition, the last Adam. By this action his condition is changed from that of a lost sinner with a totally depraved nature to that of a saint with a devine nature. His relationship to the law of God is changed from that of a guilty sinner to that of a justified saint. All this is accomplish with the act of the Holy Spirit introducing, or placing us into vital union with Jesus Christ. No ceremony of water baptism ever did that! The entire context is supernatural in its character. The greek word here should not be transliterated but translated. The translation should read; " as many were introduced (placed ) into Christ jesus, into his death were introduced. therefore we were buried with him through the aformentioned introduction into his death. The same holds true for 1 cor 12: 13; which should be translated " for through the instrumentality of one spirit, we were all placed into one body."

It is because we so often associate the english word "baptism" with the rite of water baptism, that we read that ceremony into Romans 6.

Hope this helps.. It takes the greek word and shows how it was used in Christs day. As it sure helped me.
That's a pretty long explanation of what I think I just stated....

until Jesus came along and gave us a NEW use of "baptizo", the word meant to immerse into some kind of liquid.

THAT is what the people of that time immediately thought of when they were told to "be baptized".

Jesus brought the added (expanded) use of the word as being "immersed in the Spirit". The people of that time had no concept of that. So, when Peter told the crowd to "repent and be baptized", they knew exactly what he meant for them to do.... be immersed in water.

Jesus just taught us that while we are being immersed in water, we are ALSO being immersed in the Spirit... it's both a physical and spiritual immersion.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That's a pretty long explanation of what I think I just stated....

until Jesus came along and gave us a NEW use of "baptizo", the word meant to immerse into some kind of liquid.

THAT is what the people of that time immediately thought of when they were told to "be baptized".

Jesus brought the added (expanded) use of the word as being "immersed in the Spirit". The people of that time had no concept of that. So, when Peter told the crowd to "repent and be baptized", they knew exactly what he meant for them to do.... be immersed in water.

Jesus just taught us that while we are being immersed in water, we are ALSO being immersed in the Spirit... it's both a physical and spiritual immersion.

You evidently did not read the whole article.

Quite a few things it spoke of had nothing to do with any liquid.

Like I said, it would be easier if they just interpreted it and not tansliterated

When it says baptized into him, it means literally we were immersed, or placed into him, Christ is the object by which we were baptized into. Not water.

and not, I do not believe God has to wait until some man baptizes us into water to baptize us into Christ. any more than God had to wait for a man to be circumcised before God circumcised them with the circumcision made with out hands.

 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
They didn't translate because there was no word for it.

As you know, I speak more than one language and I come across this often.

However, a MEANING was given to the word baptize.

I can tell you an italian word that's an expression and may not be in a dictionary.
However, once I explain it, the next time I use it you should know what it means.
There were words for it, thats the point,

Instead of saying we were baptized into christ

they could have said we were completely immersed in christ, or they could have said we were placed into Christ.

They did not have to use the word baptize.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,901
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Yes, that is the "bottom line" for why he was baptized, but there were other reasons, also.... to be an example, showing us the God-ordained plan of salvation.... just as he was the first of the resurrected kingdom, or church... to give us the example of what we also look forward to... to fulfill all the prophesies, etc...
Water baptism is not a salvation issue. If Jesus water baptized anybody, there is absolutely no record of it. He baptizes with the Holy Spirit, and that is recorded. He said one must be born again, and that is definitely connected to being saved. Water does not do that. The Spirit of God does that.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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You do bring up an interesting point in the verses you posted:

Acts 10:47

This clearly shows that some received the Holy Spirit and THEN they were baptized with water.

Any comment?
Well this Scripture makes it clear that infant baptism cannot possibly fulfill the biblical requirements. As Peter said in Acts 2:38 repentance must precede the gift of the Holy Spirit and baptism, and neither infants not little children can fully grasp the meaning of repentance or respond properly to the Gospel. The RCC baptizes babies because they teach baptismal regeneration. Other Protestants baptize babies by teaching that it indicates a "covenant" relationship just like circumcision. But Scripture makes it clear that water baptism is (1) a command of Christ, (2) not optional, (3) not substituted by Spirit baptism, (4) reserved for those who have genuinely repented and believed the Gospel, and (5) to be administered immediately after conversion.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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You evidently did not read the whole article.
Yes, I think I did. I didn't see any reference before Jesus that referred to baptizo as being anything other than an immersion in some type of liquid... I see comparisons after Jesus came, using the term in a metaphorical sense, but, again, that's grasping at straws...

You seem to be determined to prove that the word means something other than immersion in water, instead of using common sense, and reading/understanding it the way people of that time would have read it.

Again, NOBODY (before Jesus brought us the new meaning, or application of the word baptizo), would think that anything other than immersion in water was meant, when they were told to be baptized.

It doesn't matter what you or I think, or what we now understand... what matters is... what did the people understand Jesus and the apostles to mean when they said "repent and be baptized"

Did they scratch their heads and think..... "hmmmmm.... I wonder if I could just think I've been immersed, and that will fulfill what they told me to do"

or, "they must want me to dye my robe"

or, "this must be simply some sort of spiritual thing, that has nothing to do with water at all...."

I mean, come on..... really?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes, I think I did. I didn't see any reference before Jesus that referred to baptizo as being anything other than an immersion in some type of liquid... I see comparisons after Jesus came, using the term in a metaphorical sense, but, again, that's grasping at straws...

You seem to be determined to prove that the word means something other than immersion in water, instead of using common sense, and reading/understanding it the way people of that time would have read it.

Again, NOBODY (before Jesus brought us the new meaning, or application of the word baptizo), would think that anything other than immersion in water was meant, when they were told to be baptized.

It doesn't matter what you or I think, or what we now understand... what matters is... what did the people understand Jesus and the apostles to mean when they said "repent and be baptized"

Did they scratch their heads and think..... "hmmmmm.... I wonder if I could just think I've been immersed, and that will fulfill what they told me to do"

or, "they must want me to dye my robe"

or, "this must be simply some sort of spiritual thing, that has nothing to do with water at all...."

I mean, come on..... really?
Yeah come on really

So when Paul said we have been baptized in christ, he did not mean in christ, he meant in water, When he said we were baptized into the death and burial of Christ, he did not mean Christ, he meant water.

When john the baptist said jesus would baptize with the HS and fire, he really meant water, Even though he specifically said, it is not water.

Forgive me, But what you are saying is that God is stopped from washing us until we decide to do the work of being baptized, So we are saved by an act we do, not on something God has done. That is a works based gospel I want nothing to do with.

if you want to believe it, thats fine,, But count me out. ok..
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Jesus made a lot of corrections to the mindset of His time. He was crucified for it.
 
Feb 21, 2012
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What is the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5? One Lord, one faith, one baptism . . . .

Just as animal sacrifice pointed to the greater reality of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, water baptism is symbolic and points to a greater reality of baptism with holy Spirit.

I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Mark 1:8
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Acts 1:5
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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What is the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5? One Lord, one faith, one baptism . . . .

Just as animal sacrifice pointed to the greater reality of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, water baptism is symbolic and points to a greater reality of baptism with holy Spirit.

I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Mark 1:8
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Acts 1:5
Amen! Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, one faith, one baptism..

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body and--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all made to drink into one Spirit.