Revelation 12 Sign: September 23,2017

[GaryA]

Revelation 12:

[SUP]1[/SUP] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: [SUP]2[/SUP] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. [SUP]3[/SUP] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. [SUP]4[/SUP] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


Where is the "great red dragon" ( Revelation 12:3 ) standing before the woman ( Revelation 12:4 ) ???

If the woman is in the stars, shouldn't the dragon be there also? And, standing before the woman?

Do the "twelve stars" that are [ supposed to be ] "upon her head" look like a crown upon her head?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Very concise and easy to understand. Thank you

You're welcome! And I wish that everyone else understood it, instead of believing that God is going to send His church through the time of His wrath.

The believer in Christ has been credited with righteousness and therefore reconciled to God. Scripture states:

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them."

Therefore, for the believer the wrath of God no longer rests upon us, for God's wrath was placed on Christ. One of the main problems existing with expositors, is the belief that the church is going to remain on the earth during the time of God's wrath, being protected during that time. The on-going error is not understanding the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath and that fact that the church is no where mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath, which takes up the majority of Revelation from chapter 6 through 18.

Paul, who just after giving a detailed account of the church, both dead and living, being caught up to meet the Lord in the air as described in 1 Thes.4:13-18. He then in refers to 1 Thes.5:1-3 citing God's wrath stating that "sudden destruction will come upon them and they will not escape." Following that he says, "but you brothers are not in darkness that this day should surprise you like a thief." Meaning they (unbelievers) will not escape, but you brothers will. How will they escape? By what he just previously revealed to them regarding the dead and living being caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

There are only two places that give a percentage of the fatalities that result from God's wrath, which is the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, a fourth and a third, respectively, which would be over half of the earths population killed during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. And that is not including the fatalities that result from trumpets 1,2 and 3 nor the fatalities that will result from the seven bowl judgments.

By the time the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, my guestimation would be that there will be less than 10% of the earths current population. The oceans and fresh water will all be turned into literal blood, the cities of the nations will have been destroyed, the islands and mounts will be gone, a third of the earth and trees will have been burned up and these people think that the Lord is going to leave his church on the earth during this time?

The other on-going error is those who do not recognize that the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate events. By making them the same event, they put the church through God's wrath, which must take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

Regarding this, Rev.19:11-21 being a detailed account of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, reveals that those who will have previously been resurrected and caught up, will be following the Lord out of heaven wearing fine linen, white and clean and riding on white horses. In order to follow the Lord out of heaven, it would demonstrate that the church/bride would already have to be in heaven. Those who follow him out of heaven are his "called, chosen and faithful followers as identified in Rev.17:14.

 

[posthuman]

Revelation 12:

[SUP]1[/SUP] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: [SUP]2[/SUP] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. [SUP]3[/SUP] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. [SUP]4[/SUP] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


Where is the "great red dragon" ( Revelation 12:3 ) standing before the woman ( Revelation 12:4 ) ???

If the woman is in the stars, shouldn't the dragon be there also? And, standing before the woman?

Do the "twelve stars" that are [ supposed to be ] "upon her head" look like a crown upon her head?

heh good points.

no, the "12 stars" which are actually more like 15 stars and 3 planets look like a lion, with 3 randomly placed extra points of light, not even remotely like a crown.


Draco is totally on the other side of the northern sky, with his tail ((the only part visible while Virgo is up)) pointed toward Virgo & Leo, not ready to devour anything coming from Virgo. also there's a couple bears ((Ursa major & minor)) and a Lynx in-between them.

as Virgo rises, Draco sinks below the horizon. if you were looking at the zodiac like it's supposed to be a sign, it's more like the dragon is fleeing from the woman than he is pursuing her.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello garyA,

If the woman is in the stars, shouldn't the dragon be there also? And, standing before the woman?

The woman is not "in the stars," but is wearing a crown of twelve stars. The symbolism of the sun, moon and stars are revealed in Joseph's dream in Gen.37:9-10:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”

When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothersactually come and bow down to the ground before you?”

Sun = Jacob

Moon = Wife/wives

Eleven Stars = Eleven of the sons of Jacob, with Joseph being the twelfth star.

Therefore, the woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars, is symbolic representing the nation Israel proper.

These signs were how God revealed this information to John. The mention of the sun, moon and stars are not meant to be cosmic signs, but is to symbolically identify who the woman, the male child and who the dragon is. These people who have made this into an astrological sign are just reading into the scripture what is not there.

 

[shrume]

These signs were how God revealed this information to John.

Why would God need to reveal this information to John? I think John knew the OT very well.

The mention of the sun, moon and stars are not meant to be cosmic signs, but is to symbolically identify who the woman, the male child and who the dragon is.

What, in your opinion, was the reason for the vision?

These people who have made this into an astrological sign are just reading into the scripture what is not there.

John saw the sign "in heaven". It's astronomy, not astrology. Astrology is the devil's perversion of God's purpose for the mazzaroth.

God's word is written in the stars (Gen 1:14; Ps 19; many more).

 

[Ahwatukee]

Greetings shrume,

Originally Posted by Ahwatukee

These signs were how God revealed this information to John.

Shrume: Why would God need to reveal this information to John? I think John knew the OT very well.

The answer to this is stated right in the first verse of Revelation:

"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ."

The word "Apokalupsis" translate "Revelation" is defined as "things being revealed that were previously covered/hidden." And God is revealing those things via John to us.

What, in your opinion, was the reason for the vision?

To identify who the woman is, who the male child is and who the dragon is, as well as the events that are going to take place regarding them during that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.

John saw the sign "in heaven". It's astronomy, not astrology. Astrology is the devil's perversion of God's purpose for the mazzaroth.

As previously stated, the signs were how God related the information to John. They are not meant to be cosmic signs for us such as planets aligning and such. But the sun, moon and stars are symbolic representing Jacob, his wives and his sons. Compare Rev.12:1 with Genesis 37:9-10. These symbols are meant to identify the woman as Israel.

 

[Mem]

If Rev 19 is about the Lord's return with those whom were raptured, then who is left...,

(considering those suffering from the Lamb standing on Mount Zion with his 144k*, harvesting of the grapes of wrath cast into the wine press and trodden outside the city in Rev 14:20, and the Lamb accompanied to victory by his called and chosen ones in Rev 17:14 after the bowls of wrath,)

...of the nations to be struck down as He treads the winepress of his fury of the wrath of God, the Almighty, in Rev 19:15?

*also considering these go wherever He goes

 

[Ahwatukee]

Greetings mem!

If Rev 19 is about the Lord's return with those whom were raptured, then who is left...,

That's a good question and I have a good answer. After the church has been gathered, there will be those who will come to Christ during that time. This group is introduced in Rev.7:9-17 as "the saints who come out of the great tribulation."

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb."


"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

I answered, “Sir, you are the one who knows.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Many of the saints from every tribe, nation, people and language (Gentiles) during that time will have been killed for keeping the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will not have worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark. Those saints who do make it through alive until Christ returns to the earth, will be those who will repopulate the earth during the thousand years. The woman/Israel who will have fled out into the wilderness and will have been cared for by God during that last 3 1/2 years until Christ's return, will also repopulate the earth.

I hope this answers your question

 

[GaryA]

I'm just curious, Ahwatukee -- which one of the following would you say is more true? :

~ You somehow seldom-if-ever are able to discern when someone is making a point about something - whether sarcastic or not - that is intended for the sole purpose of getting others to think about what they are saying.

~ You never allow yourself to miss an opportunity to "play your tape" -- even if it means you are "correcting" someone that you actually agree with on a particular topic.

I am just wondering...



I did not say that the woman was "in the stars" -- I was questioning those who claim it -- by pointing out that - if the "woman of Revelation 12" was referring directly to an 'event' in the constellations of the heavens - then, surely the "dragon of Revelation 12" should also be present.

It is nice that you agree with me, but - "you are preaching to the man who just preached it to you" - only, in fewer words...

What is it with you, anyway? Do you simply 'react' to seeing my user name? Why do you always seem to think it is important to "correct" me even when you agree with me? Do you really actually read what I write, or do you assume that it is guaranteed that you will disagree with whatever I write? ( And, then - write a "correction" post even if you agree with me. )

I know you are not simply "talking to the crowd" - because, you addressed me specifically. And, you are not just "adding to what I said"; you took a whole different approach.

I really wish you would learn to more thoroughly read a post before you 'react' to it. It is a little bit 'awkward' when someone tries to "correct" something they actually agree with whole-heartedly...

Anyway...

I believe that people are prone to try to match the "few" details in scripture that align with something without considering "all" of the details that are present in scripture. ( i.e. - if the "woman of Revelation 12" is "in the stars", then where is the "dragon of Revelation 12" in that picture / scenario? If the passage is to be a complete and accurate description, I would think that the 'dragon' should be there with the 'woman' in that picture / scenario. )

ALL of the details of scripture have to match -- not just SOME of them.

 

[GaryA]

I believe that the woman in Revelation 12 represents Israel. If you were paying attention, you would probably realize this. But, you are too busy trying to make sure you get to "play your tape" as much as possible that you overlook what people are actually saying. So - "slow down"...

Look. Read. Read again if necessary.

Pay attention.

 

[Bladerunner]

I do indeed think this sign is vital to pay attention to, out of all the signs I have heard of and seen never once have I seen scripture actually come to life in the heavens, however something to remember is that it is a sign meaning it is to point to warn or to direct to something so for anyone thinking the rapture is going to happen or that the tribulation will begin think again.

Jesus did say there would be signs and this one is a sign...WHt it means, nobody knows until it happens.. I think it is suppose to coincide with the Sept. 23rd start of Rosh Hashanah. Does this bring us into a Jubilee year or end the Jubilee year in 2017.

 

[Locutus]

Nahum 3:16 Thou hast multiplied thy merchants above the stars of heaven: the cankerworm spoileth, and fleeth away.

^^^^^^ symbolic language - just like John used in his revelation.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

if you search the above,there are tons of videos showing that the alignment of the stars in september 23 is the sign of Rev. 12.

Jesus did said to watch the signs, I would like to know your opinion?

A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away. Matthew 16:4

 

[Ahwatukee]

A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away. Matthew 16:4

Hello MessageOfTheCross,

If we keep the scripture that you quoted in context, the sign that the religious leaders were looking for, was a sign from Jesus as proof of his being the Son of God and not signs in general. In fact when the disciples asked the Lord regarding the end of the age "when will all this happen and what will be the sign of your coming?" Jesus then mentioned a whole list of signs that would signal His return to the earth to end the age. Then He said to those who would be present during that time "when you see all these things (signs) begin to take place, then you will know that the end is near, even at the steps."

Therefore, there are signs for those here during that time to watch for in being able to determine the nearness of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the revealing of the anitchrist would also be signs.

 

[Nehemiah6]

if you search the above,there are tons of videos showing that the alignment of the stars in september 23 is the sign of Rev. 12.

Since Revelation 12 comes after Revelation 4-11, and most of those things have not happened as yet, kindly ignore all this hype about September 23, blood moons, etc. At this time, the primary focus of the Christian should be to get the Gospel out to every creature, not be disturbed by the "signs" in the heavens. That is a preoccupation of the heathen.

Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. (Jeremiah 10:2).

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Hello MessageOfTheCross,

If we keep the scripture that you quoted in context, the sign that the religious leaders were looking for, was a sign from Jesus as proof of his being the Son of God and not signs in general. In fact when the disciples asked the Lord regarding the end of the age "when will all this happen and what will be the sign of your coming?" Jesus then mentioned a whole list of signs that would signal His return to the earth to end the age. Then He said to those who would be present during that time "when you see all these things (signs) begin to take place, then you will know that the end is near, even at the steps."

Therefore, there are signs for those here during that time to watch for in being able to determine the nearness of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the revealing of the anitchrist would also be signs.

Jesus was the sign that came from heaven to earth that Israel didn't accept. If they had excepted Jesus they would have went into the millennium and next the perfect age. We do know the Rapture of the Church is eminent. As watchmen for the Lord we must bark because the Fig Tree has spouted her leaves (1948) and Jesus is at the door.

 

[tanakh]

Jesus was the sign that came from heaven to earth that Israel didn't accept. If they had excepted Jesus they would have went into the millennium and next the perfect age. We do know the Rapture of the Church is eminent. As watchmen for the Lord we must bark because the Fig Tree has spouted her leaves (1948) and Jesus is at the door.

The sign of the Fig Tree is not a good one. In Genesis Adam and Eve used Fig Leaves to try to cover their sin. Jesus cursed a Fig tree because it bore no Fruit only leaves. It represented Israel and sins committed. Jesus used the Fig Tree and its leaves as a sign of Israels judgement.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

The sign of the Fig Tree is not a good one. In Genesis Adam and Eve used Fig Leaves to try to cover their sin. Jesus cursed a Fig tree because it bore no Fruit only leaves. It represented Israel and sins committed. Jesus used the Fig Tree and its leaves as a sign of Israels judgement.

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: Matthew 24:32

Israel is still the apple of Gods eye. Yes they are cursed to this very day for refusing to accept Jesus. However God has said, "for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye--" Zechariah 2:8 NIV

 

[oldhermit]

if you search the above,there are tons of videos showing that the alignment of the stars in september 23 is the sign of Rev. 12.

Jesus did said to watch the signs, I would like to know your opinion?

By oldhermit
I. The Divisions of the Book of Revelation

A. The first series of visions in chapters 1-11

1. Chapters 1-3 centered around God's judgment of his people – the Church.
2. Chapter 4 portrays the majesty of Jesus on the throne of heaven. This is the position of judgment.
3. Chapters 5-11 center around the Jewish persecution of the saints and God's judgment of Israel represented in the destruction of the temple, the city, and the end of the Jewish state.

B. The second set of visions in chapters 12-18

1. Chapters 12-13 will represent a new series of symbols. Chapter 12 is the unfolding of the “Mystery of God.” This chapter is a microcosm of the entire redemptive plan of God from the nation of Israel to the victory of the saints. This chapter is really nothing that has not already been seen in Revelation. It is really nothing more than a condensed version of the entire book of Revelation. It is merely an overview of the same things set forth is new symbols.
2. Chapter 14 is the celebration of the saints over the destruction of their persecutor – Israel – “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great.”
3. In chapters 15-16 the judgment of God is poured out on the nation of Rome who has emerged as the chief persecuting power.
4. Chapters 17-18 portrays the sins of the nation of Israel in its alliance with Rome.

C. The third set of visions in chapters 19-22.
1. Chapter 19 envisions the victory of the Lamb over his enemies.
2. Chapter 20 depicts the victorious Church and the destruction of all her enemies.
3. Chapters 21-22 is a picture of the Glory of the Church.


II. The Microcosm of the “Mystery of God.”

A. The woman with child, 1-2 – Israel as an appointed nation.

1. “A great sign appeared in heaven : a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet,” This is the nation of Israel who has always been portrayed as the bride of Jehovah clothed in splendor. “Then I passed by you and saw you, and behold, you were at the time for love; so I spread My skirt over you and covered your nakedness. I also swore to you and entered into a covenant with you so that you became Mine,” declares the Lord GOD. Then I bathed you with water, washed off your blood from you and anointed you with oil. I also clothed you with embroidered cloth and put sandals of porpoise skin on your feet; and I wrapped you with fine linen and covered you with silk. I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your hands and a necklace around your neck. I also put a ring in your nostril, earrings in your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your dress was of fine linen, silk and embroidered cloth. You ate fine flour, honey and oil; so you were exceedingly beautiful and advanced to royalty. Then your fame went forth among the nations on account of your beauty, for it was perfect because of My splendor which I bestowed on you,” declares the Lord GOD.” Ezekiel 16:8-14.
2. “And on her head a crown of twelve stars ;” The nations of Judah and Israel were comprised of the 12 tribes represented here by 12 stars.
3. Israel's struggle to bring forth Messiah,“And she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.”

B. The attempt by Satan to destroy the child, 3-4

1. “Then another sign appeared in heaven : and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.” We are told in verse nine that the dragon is Satan but the seven heads and seven diadems are representative of the nation of Rome. So, it is through Rome that Satan exercised his power against the woman. This beast is the fourth beast mentioned in Daniel's vision in Daniel 7:7-8. “After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. “While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.” Daniel does not mention the seven heads but focuses rather on the ten horns which were ten kings.

a. Seven heads – “Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while,” 17:9-10.Thus the seven heads are the seven hills of Rome which had become the symbol of the imperial city. The woman is Jerusalem.
b. The ten horns – “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority AS kings with the beast for one hour. “These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast,” 17:12-13. (100 men serves as emperor of Rome from Augustus in 67BC to Maurice in 602AD so, why are only ten horns mentioned? Is it because the fulfillment of these events would be in the days of the tenth horn?)

* These ten horns are Roman tributary kings for none of them have received a kingdom and they derive their authority from the beast.
* The time of their power is limited as they receive authority “for one hour.” In other words, for a short period of time.
* These kings serve Rome for they “give their power and authority to the beast,”

2. “And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth.” Their power has been taken away. This suggests the power of the Roman empire over the nations.
3. “And the dragon stood before the woman (Israel) who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.” Satanattempted to kill Jesus at his birth. This was a prophesied event. “Thus says the Lord, "A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping. Rachel is weeping for her children; She refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are no more.” Jeremiah 32:15. Matthew records in Matthew 2:16-18 that Jeremiah's words were fulfilled in the attempt to kill Jesus after his birth. “Then when Herod (one of the horns – a tributary king of Rome) saw that he had been tricked by the magi, he became very enraged, and sent and slew all the male children who were in Bethlehem and all its vicinity, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the magi. Then what had been spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “A voice was heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and she refused to be comforted, because they were no more.” In Daniel 7:24 we are also told that these ten horns are ten kings of the sea beast. “As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.”

C. The birth of Messiah, 5-6

1. “And she gave birth to a son, a male child, (Not the Church which is always represented in the feminine) who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; This can only be Jesus. He is theone who was to rule with the nations with the rod of iron.

a. Psalms 2:9, “You shall break them with a rod of iron. You shall shatter them like earthenware.”
b. Revelation 2:27, “And he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to pieces, as I also have received authority from My Father.”
c. Revelation 19:15, “From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.”

2. “And her child was caught up to God and to His throne.” This is the resurrection and ascension of Jesus which was seen by Daniel 7:13-14, “I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, and He came up to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion, glory and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations and men of every language might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion which will not pass away; and His kingdom is one which will not be destroyed.” Persecution was the method by which Satan attempted to destroy this kingdom.
3. “Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.” The Christians fled to the mountains of Pela as the Lord had warned them to do during the persecution of Jewish Christians in the time of Israel's judgment, Matthew 24:16 and Luke 21:21.

D. The defeat of Satan, 7-12

1. “And there was war in heaven”
This is notnecessarily speaking of the unseen celestial world nor is this war necessarily one that was waged in the unseen world. As a symbol, heaven is used in Revelation to represent governments and authorities.
2. Two opposing forces of good and evil – Michael and his angels vs the dragon and his angels.

a. Michael and Satan are historic enemies. Jude 9 tells us of the dispute between Michael and Satan over the body of Moses.
b. Michael is the defender of the saints while Satan is the power behind the enemies of Christianity. This war was the fulfillment of Daniel 12:1, "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.” Notice, Michale is the guardian of the people of God. He was to arise in the time of great distress to rescue the saints out of that distress.

3. The war
“Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war.” Angels represent confederate forces. The angels who where with Michael were the saints. The angels who were with the Dragon were the powers of Rome.
4. The power of the dragon is defeated. This is not talking about Satan's expulsion from heaven. This is talking about his defeat in his war against the saints. He could not overcome them.
“And there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.” The power of this government has collapsed. Hence the expression “thrown down to the earth.” This is the same imagery we saw in 9:1 with the star in heaven that had fallen to the earth representing a removal of authority or a fall of power. Not only is Satan a defeated power but his angels (the powers of Rome) are a defeated power. This does not necessarily suggest a destruction of the nation of Rome or its armies. This in not what the scene is about. This is revealing the fact that Satan and the persecuting powers of Rome have been defeated by the saints. The saints could not be overcome by the powers of persecution. Rather, they had over come the persecutors even in their deaths. "And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death(Victorious martyrs). "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth (Israel) and the sea (Rome), because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time,”11-12. The antecedent of 'they' is Michael and his angels. They were able to overcome by the blood of the Lamb and by their testimony. Testimony – preaching of the gospel is their angelic function. They are the messengers of the gospel. Their physical fate was their confrontation with death. The length of time allotted to the Devil is the 1260 days, the 42 months, the 3 and one half years.

E. The remnant is preserved from the judgment of Israel, 13-17.
The war against the nation of Israel is represented in two fronts; the war against unbelieving Israel and the war against the faithful remnant. “And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, (The destruction of Satan's power, Hebrews 2:14) he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. (Delivered from the destruction of Jerusalem). And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. (Flood of persecution by Rome). But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.” (Christians)

 

[garee]

John was not literally gazing at the stars in heaven. It was a vision that the Holy Spirit brought to John's mind. .In that parable those stars 12 represent all of the born again believers as"sons of God"that come under the generation of Christ as those born of the Spirit of Christ the spiritul seed Christ.Not flesh of Jewish sinners.as seeds many

Genesis 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.


Genesis 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;


Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

(Not just the nation of Israel all the seed represented by 12

The woman in Revelation 12 is shown more adequately in Revelation 21. The bride of Christ made up of all the Old Testament born again Jews used to represent gates by which we enter into fellowship with Christ our husband. Twelve denotes the final authority or the whole loaf representing the body of Christ as all believers, one in the same bride the one measurement .Telve is used throughout scriptures in parable to give us the spiritual understanding hid form those who walk by sight after the flesh.

Again gates represent all (twelve) of the Old testament saints and walls the new testament saints. One bride one gospel .He dd not measure just the gates as if the description in Revelation 12 pertained to the flesh of a Jew and not those born again. .One bride one measurement.

(Rev 21:15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.


The Sun and Moon under her feet indicates it the end of time. The Sun and the moon are no longer needed as sign to observe it the end of this worldism .

Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

The church as the representative glory until the sun and moon are under His chaste virgin brides feet described as stones. The many of lively stones that make up the spiritual house of God the church, His bride. The breastplate as representative glory was used in parables in the Old Testament to preach the gospel as to the suffering of Christ beforehand.


Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.Rev 21:11

It has nothing to do with the flesh of Jew as if Jewish flesh could profit for something do with spiritual, faith matters.

Christ said of his own flesh it did not profit. The focus is not a flesh but the new creature described as His bride the Church .She as a new creature is not considered male nor female, Jew nor Gentile.

Twelve is the number, ( metaphor) used in that parable . The tribe of Dan representing evil is missing,is used to help emphasize the importance of the numbers used in parables to hide the spiritual meaning just as in the same way for the same purpose representing evil Judas was taken away.

12X12 =144 or 144,000 as another unknown to represent the same bride (all the believers) . It has nothing to do with the flesh of a Jew that has not had sexual relationships with a woman. The bride of Christ is considered the chaste virgin,this is shown many times in different manners.