TRIBULATION LIE
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I found this from Mike Rogers. He has it about right, close enough. No need for me to reinvent the wheel.
The SEALS:
The SEALS:
The year is AD 66.[SUP]1[/SUP] Nero Caesar has banished John, the last living apostle, to the Island of Patmos “for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Nero, who sometimes wears the skin of a beast while performing despicable acts of torture, has been murdering Christians for the past three years. Now, he has dispatched his lethal army to squelch a violent rebellion in John’s homeland. John sees these developments as “the tribulation” of which his Lord had spoken thirty-six years earlier (Rev. 1:9; cp. Matt. 24:21).
Contrary to what Nero thinks, God has sent John to Patmos. The Almighty intends to give a series of visions that will sustain him and other Christians during the tribulation. Future generations of Christ’s followers will know these visions as the book of Revelation.
Jesus said this tribulation would come in his generation (Matt. 24:21, 34). That generation is almost at an end. The visions are, therefore, about “things which must shortly come to pass” (Rev. 1:1).
Jesus also associated this tribulation with three important developments: the destruction of the Jewish Temple, the end of the Mosaic age, and the start of the Messianic Age (Matt. 24:1–3, 6, 13–14, 21). The new age will be the time when the Lord’s presence (Gk. parousia) dwells among his people.
The first vision[SUP]2[/SUP] (Rev. 1:9–3:22) assures John that Jesus will be with his people during the tribulation and throughout the new age. Jesus organized his people into churches (Matt. 16:16–19; 18:17). This congregational structure will serve as the Temple of God after the Mosaic-Age Temple disappears (cp. 1 Pet. 2:5; 1 Cor. 3:16). The vision of Christ walking among his churches on earth shows how he intends to sustain his kingdom in the Messianic Age (Rev. 2:1).
The second vision (Rev. 4:1–8:1) concentrates on the tribulation that will end the Mosaic Age. John knows this is God’s curse against apostate Israel. Fifteen centuries earlier, Moses wrote of this curse. It would come in “the latter days” of Israel’s existence as God’s covenant nation (Deut. 30:1; 31:29) and would precede the blessings of the Messianic Age (Deut. 30:1–20). John is living at the intersection of the curse and the blessing God had pronounced upon Israel.
Before the curse begins, God opens a door into heaven and allows John to see what is happening there (Rev. 4:1 – 5:15). Jesus is the glory of that place! He is “the Lion of the tribe of Juda” who has redeemed his people from their bondage to sin in the true Exodus (Rev. 5:9). His people “shall reign on the earth” during the coming Messianic Age (Rev. 5:10) that will follow the judgment about to come.
John also sees a book with seven seals (Rev. 5:1). Only Jesus is worthy to open the seals and start the judgments against Israel (Rev. 5:5). The first seal reveals the Lord riding forth to conquer (Rev. 6:2), a prophetic image of God defeating his enemies (cp. Hab. 3:8). Apostate Israel will be the first enemy he overcomes.
The opening of the next three seals reveals the devastation coming to the land of Israel. Jesus will take peace “from the land” and grant Death power over a fourth part “of the land” (Rev. 6:4, 8, YLT; emphasis added).[SUP]3[/SUP] John knows Jesus is about to use the Roman armies to do this.[SUP]4[/SUP] The apostate Jews have killed many of John’s fellow Christians. All the other apostles have perished, some at the hands of the Jews (e.g., Acts 12:1–3). This has fulfilled Jesus’s prophecy, given on the day he delivered the Olivet Discourse: “Behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city” (Matt. 23:34).
The time for Israel’s long-promised curse—which Moses pronounced and Jesus reiterated—has come. God will avenge the righteous blood shed “on the land”[SUP]5[/SUP] in the apostles’ generation. This judgment will leave the Jews’ earthly house desolate (i.e., the Temple; Matt. 23:34–39).
When Jesus breaks the fifth seal, John sees “the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held” (Rev. 6:9). They ask Jesus how long they must wait until he avenges their blood “upon the land” (Rev. 6:10, YLT). The Lord assures them the delay will only be “for a little season” (Rev. 6:11).[SUP]6[/SUP] The time is at hand (Rev. 1:3). Their vindication involves “things which must shortly be done” (Rev. 22:6).
The breaking of the sixth seal brings the cosmic collapse Jesus had foretold (Rev. 6:12; cp. Matt. 24:29; Luke 21:25). This common prophetic figure depicts God’s destruction of a city or nation (cp. Isa. 13:10; 19:1; 34:4; et al.). It does not indicate the end of planet earth! The collapse of Israel’s world, to keep with the metaphor, will occur in Jesus’s generation (Matt. 24:29–34). As John writes Revelation, the time for this judgment has come.
Before it arrives, God issues an important command to his angels “standing upon the four corners of the land” of Israel (Rev. 7:1, YLT).[SUP]7[/SUP] They must seal the true servants of God among the tribes of Israel to protect them from the destruction about to come (Rev. 7:3–8). Paul had described this remnant of Israel (Rom. 9:27 in context) and Jesus had instructed them how to escape the coming judgment (Luke 21:20–23). This theme of remnant preservation is not new.
The remnant of Israel will escape the “great tribulation” Jesus foretold (Matt. 24:21). They are the nucleus of the church—the new Temple of God. John sees others join them:
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.” (Rev. 7:9–10)
John asks one elder in heaven about the identity of this remnant. He replies,
These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. (Rev. 7:14–17; emphasis added)
God will dwell among his people during the Messianic-Age parousia (presence) of Christ.
Jesus’s breaking of the seventh seal introduces a brief silence in heaven. This heightens our anticipation of the next vision and, perhaps, things beyond the coming judgment (Rev. 8:1).
The vision of Jesus as the Seal Breaker is complete.
H
Nope
Prophecy itself refutes this handily
No rapture yet
No second coming yet
You guys are private interpretation big time.
The dispensational future pretribbers had it right all along.
You make huge grand canyon leaps and expect others to follow.
End times is framed in bride/ groom dimension.
You leave out so much,use verses to " prove" your deal,making the word of God into your obedient puppet
Prophecy itself refutes this handily
No rapture yet
No second coming yet
You guys are private interpretation big time.
The dispensational future pretribbers had it right all along.
You make huge grand canyon leaps and expect others to follow.
End times is framed in bride/ groom dimension.
You leave out so much,use verses to " prove" your deal,making the word of God into your obedient puppet
H
No,I defend pretrib rapture with out any of that.
Dispensation is just a basic no brainer that you guys work hard to suppress.
Dispensations is merely a bracket of time. Judges,exodus,Davids kingdom,and on and on are dispensations.
Even the fledgling gospel was FOR A TIME (short dispensation), to the Jews exclusively,a dispensation .
But that simple no brainer becomes such a stumbling block.
That dynamic is WHY you guys are snagged in your deal.
Think about it. Now you know the backdrop WHY they say Jews and Jerusalem are fakes. It is false,BUT BECAUSE OF BOGUS DOCTRINE,they need that falsehood to be their core and banner.
Dispensation is just a basic no brainer that you guys work hard to suppress.
Dispensations is merely a bracket of time. Judges,exodus,Davids kingdom,and on and on are dispensations.
Even the fledgling gospel was FOR A TIME (short dispensation), to the Jews exclusively,a dispensation .
But that simple no brainer becomes such a stumbling block.
That dynamic is WHY you guys are snagged in your deal.
Think about it. Now you know the backdrop WHY they say Jews and Jerusalem are fakes. It is false,BUT BECAUSE OF BOGUS DOCTRINE,they need that falsehood to be their core and banner.
Well why don't you teach everyone which are real Jews and which are the synagogue of satan?
Who does the works of Abraham, and who does the works of Satan?
When I see someone with a name like Levi Goldberg promoting interracial marriage, unopposed immigration, sodomy, pornography and deception, am I looking at a child of Abraham or the synagogue of satan? Which of those living in Jerusalem are real Jews? The white-looking ones that join the IDF and identify as Israeli, or the ones covered in silly black clothes who scream and yell and persecute and spit on Christians and teach that Lord Jesus is burning in excrement in hell? You know the ones I'm talking about, right? The ones who wear those big furry hats and call you an 'anti-Semite' for having any kind of rational thinking and that promote strong borders for Israel but open borders for white countries.
Please share with us this important information, since you seem to be very enlightened on this subject. Thank you in advance.
Who does the works of Abraham, and who does the works of Satan?
When I see someone with a name like Levi Goldberg promoting interracial marriage, unopposed immigration, sodomy, pornography and deception, am I looking at a child of Abraham or the synagogue of satan? Which of those living in Jerusalem are real Jews? The white-looking ones that join the IDF and identify as Israeli, or the ones covered in silly black clothes who scream and yell and persecute and spit on Christians and teach that Lord Jesus is burning in excrement in hell? You know the ones I'm talking about, right? The ones who wear those big furry hats and call you an 'anti-Semite' for having any kind of rational thinking and that promote strong borders for Israel but open borders for white countries.
Please share with us this important information, since you seem to be very enlightened on this subject. Thank you in advance.
The "synagogue of satan" only had a 1st century AD application for the persecuting Jews and the comment was addressed to the 7 churches
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Paul also addressed this with his distinction between the Jews of the flesh as allegorical sons of Hagar and the sons of Sarah in Galatians.
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Paul also addressed this with his distinction between the Jews of the flesh as allegorical sons of Hagar and the sons of Sarah in Galatians.
turns out those churches dont mean churches but church ages......... u can pick and choose which one ur at....... if ur church is losing members its the luke warm laodecia but if its blooming u see, then yous part of the philadelphia remnant 
dispensationalists do that too....... saying its church ages. (its funny btw, u look at the different preachers and they all point out different timespans for each church age u see).
i know it doesnt say church ages u see.. (not yet) but maybe when the texas deceptus translation is completed it will
i know it doesnt say church ages u see.. (not yet) but maybe when the texas deceptus translation is completed it will
dispensationalists do that too....... saying its church ages. (its funny btw, u look at the different preachers and they all point out different timespans for each church age u see).
i know it doesnt say church ages u see.. (not yet) but maybe when the texas deceptus translation is completed it will
i know it doesnt say church ages u see.. (not yet) but maybe when the texas deceptus translation is completed it will
I'm still waiting for funding/donations for my Texas Deceptus project....
While this is addressed to someone else, I will give you more than one verse. But that does not mean you will believe it. You will only try to find a way to wiggle out of the truth. Anyhow I will post several verses for you WHICH MAKE ABSOLUTELY NO REFERENCE TO A TRIBULATION AND SHOW ABSOLUTELY NO CONNECTION TO ONE.
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. (Mt 24:42).
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. (Mt 24:44)
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. (Mt 25:13)
Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning (Mk 13:35)
And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. (Mk 13:37)
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.(Lk 21:36)
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. (Mt 24:42).
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. (Mt 24:44)
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. (Mt 25:13)
Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning (Mk 13:35)
And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. (Mk 13:37)
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.(Lk 21:36)
Greetings Ellsworth1943,
The timing of the gathering of the church cannot be found by any one scripture saying "here is where the church is gathered." It is understood by the cross-referencing and comparing of all related scriptures. That said, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are how God is going to carry out His wrath during that last seven years. It is the fulfillment of the long prophesied day of the Lord. Regarding God's coming wrath, scripture states the following:
"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. - 1 Thes.1:9-10
"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." - 1 Thes.5:9
"Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth" - Rev.3:10
Now, what many do in order to protect their positions is to say that the wrath that is being spoken of in the scriptures above is that the final wrath in the lake of fire, which they are not. The point is moot anyway because those who have received Christ have been credited with righteousness and have been reconciled to God and therefore will not be exposed to God's coming wrath upon this earth nor condemning judgment in the lake of fire.
Another explanation that people will give is that God is going to protect His church while in the midst of his wrath. Anyone who says this does not understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. With just the 4th seal and 6th trumpet alone (a fourth and a third respectively), over half of the earths population will be killed and that is not including the fatalities that will be caused by trumpets 1,2 and 3 nor the fatalities resulting in the bowl judgments, which are just not mentioned. Instead of protecting the righteous in the midst of God's wrath, the Lord will keep His promise by removing His church prior to His coming wrath.
But in answer to your question, the closest scripture that we can come to that demonstrates that the church is in heaven while God's wrath is being poured out upon the earth is found in Rev.19:6-8 and 14:
"Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear." - Rev.19:6-8
"And the armies who were in heaven, having been clothed in fine line, white and clean were following Him upon white horses." - Rev.19:14
Now, Rev.19:6-8 shows the bride which is another designation for the church, receiving her fine linen, white and clean at the wedding of the Lamb in heaven. Then verse 14 shows that same group following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing the same fine linen, white and clean that she will have previously received at the wedding of the Lamb. The point being is that, the church, as the bride, is seen in heaven receiving her fine linen and then is seen following the Lord out of heaven as he returns to the earth to end the age. in order to follow the Lord out of heaven, you would have to already be in heaven. In further support that the church will have already been gathered in heaven and will be following the Lord out of heaven, we have the following:
"They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
The scripture above is in reference to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age as detailed in Rev.19:11-21. The reference to "They will wage war against the Lamb" is referring to the nations gathered at Armageddon. And returning with the Lord will be His "called, chosen and faithful followers," i.e. the church which will have been gathered and will be following the Lord out of heaven.
I hope that you will honestly consider the proof that can be found in these scriptures, for they demonstrate that the church will be gathered prior to God's wrath and will be returning to the earth with the Lord to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.
The point to this is that, since the wrath of God begins with the opening of that first seal, then the church must be gathered prior to when it is opened.
The timing of the gathering of the church cannot be found by any one scripture saying "here is where the church is gathered." It is understood by the cross-referencing and comparing of all related scriptures. That said, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are how God is going to carry out His wrath during that last seven years. It is the fulfillment of the long prophesied day of the Lord. Regarding God's coming wrath, scripture states the following:
"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. - 1 Thes.1:9-10
"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." - 1 Thes.5:9
"Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth" - Rev.3:10
Now, what many do in order to protect their positions is to say that the wrath that is being spoken of in the scriptures above is that the final wrath in the lake of fire, which they are not. The point is moot anyway because those who have received Christ have been credited with righteousness and have been reconciled to God and therefore will not be exposed to God's coming wrath upon this earth nor condemning judgment in the lake of fire.
Another explanation that people will give is that God is going to protect His church while in the midst of his wrath. Anyone who says this does not understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. With just the 4th seal and 6th trumpet alone (a fourth and a third respectively), over half of the earths population will be killed and that is not including the fatalities that will be caused by trumpets 1,2 and 3 nor the fatalities resulting in the bowl judgments, which are just not mentioned. Instead of protecting the righteous in the midst of God's wrath, the Lord will keep His promise by removing His church prior to His coming wrath.
But in answer to your question, the closest scripture that we can come to that demonstrates that the church is in heaven while God's wrath is being poured out upon the earth is found in Rev.19:6-8 and 14:
"Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear." - Rev.19:6-8
"And the armies who were in heaven, having been clothed in fine line, white and clean were following Him upon white horses." - Rev.19:14
Now, Rev.19:6-8 shows the bride which is another designation for the church, receiving her fine linen, white and clean at the wedding of the Lamb in heaven. Then verse 14 shows that same group following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing the same fine linen, white and clean that she will have previously received at the wedding of the Lamb. The point being is that, the church, as the bride, is seen in heaven receiving her fine linen and then is seen following the Lord out of heaven as he returns to the earth to end the age. in order to follow the Lord out of heaven, you would have to already be in heaven. In further support that the church will have already been gathered in heaven and will be following the Lord out of heaven, we have the following:
"They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
The scripture above is in reference to when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age as detailed in Rev.19:11-21. The reference to "They will wage war against the Lamb" is referring to the nations gathered at Armageddon. And returning with the Lord will be His "called, chosen and faithful followers," i.e. the church which will have been gathered and will be following the Lord out of heaven.
I hope that you will honestly consider the proof that can be found in these scriptures, for they demonstrate that the church will be gathered prior to God's wrath and will be returning to the earth with the Lord to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.
The point to this is that, since the wrath of God begins with the opening of that first seal, then the church must be gathered prior to when it is opened.
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dispensationalists do that too....... saying its church ages. (its funny btw, u look at the different preachers and they all point out different timespans for each church age u see).
i know it doesnt say church ages u see.. (not yet) but maybe when the texas deceptus translation is completed it will
i know it doesnt say church ages u see.. (not yet) but maybe when the texas deceptus translation is completed it will
.