Prosperity preaching Pastor prosecuted, prisoned

[preacher4truth]

IRS and other finance docs on his website prove you wrong.

I've shown you his church salary. CHURCH salary.

Here are the facts:

You hate Calvinists, who are brothers.

You lied and stated JM makes over a million from his church. That was proven false.

You then change it to 400K from his church. Which is still wrong.

Then you make a post about others slamming people to make them look better, and blast them. While, you know, you did exactly that yourself.

Your posts here are slander laden, name calling and inflammatory.

Please, PLEASE go examine your hate of brothers in light of 1 John.

 

[beastslayer1970]

If memory serves me did not Paul work and also pastor?

Our pastors are paid by the church. We have trustees that set payments of salary and expenses.
Expenses are accountable.

As long as there is accountability to the local congregation and anyone who wants to see the books, it is ok for a church to pay their pastor.

I prefer bi-vocational pastors, because it was what Paul modeled.

Over here in the US most local churches are controlled by deacon/elder boards and can control a Pastor because they pay him. If the church does not pay me, they cannot control me and we can work together.

The idea of the church paid pastor is actually Old Covenant thinking. Most Pastors of small to med to avg sized churches here in the USA make a percentage or half the offering. I totally disagree with that. That money should be for the work of ministry of the church not to pay the pastor with.

 

[preacher4truth]

The thing is JM makes about 250K from the church. Not over a million as has been reported here.

He also makes royalties on his books and from GTY.

He also makes a salary from The Master's Seminary.

Seems apparent he earns his wages and God has blessed him for preaching the truth and exposing error.

 

[Willie-T]

You guys got me to wondering about bi-vocational preachers. During His ministry, what kind of employment was Jesus engaged in?

 

[SovereignGrace]

As long as there is accountability to the local congregation and anyone who wants to see the books, it is ok for a church to pay their pastor.

I prefer bi-vocational pastors, because it was what Paul modeled.

Over here in the US most local churches are controlled by deacon/elder boards and can control a Pastor because they pay him. If the church does not pay me, they cannot control me and we can work together.

The idea of the church paid pastor is actually Old Covenant thinking. Most Pastors of small to med to avg sized churches here in the USA make a percentage or half the tithe. I totally disagree with that. That money should be for the work of ministry of the church not to pay the pastor with.

To be honest, all pastors are at the mercy of their congregation to a certain extent. They can vote their pastor out at any time.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You guys got me to wondering about bi-vocational preachers. During His ministry, what kind of employment was Jesus engaged in?

Nothing that I can think of.

 

[preacher4truth]

https://www.theroot.com/virginia-pastor-and-his-wife-found-guilty-of-scamming-m-1821469560


How do so many rationally thinking ppl get sucked into this 'another gospel' junk?

With all due respect to those deceived, I do not believe they think rationally. They think subjectively, unreasonably, not soundly nor soberly as per Scriptures mandate and instructions. They are sadly children who are tossed about by every wind of doctrine.

If a person exposes these errors, to many of them it is "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" and they are written off. The Gospel, Scripture, doctrine appears to mean to them that it is lottery, magic, a roll of the dice, chance to get rich if you play your cards right (their idea of faith).

 

[shrume]

Calvinists who tear down people to make themselves look better than any other believers and their claim they are the only elect of God and the only ones going to heaven. The view God as an Angry Patriarch that chose them base don his own selfish needs and the rest of us will burn because God did not chose us. They go to great lengths to hide these things but it is who they are.

the Calvies.

This is quite true.

I have noticed that people generally seem to adopt the behavior of how they envision God to be. Calvinists are generally NOT loving people (except to other Calvinists), but accusatory, insulting, rude, and in some cases, very hypocritical. People who are more Arminian are generally more loving, forgiving, and understanding.

These are generalizations, and not hard fast rules. There are exceptions on both sides.

But I have observed it to be true on many occasions. Peoples' behavior frequently mimics how they understand God to be.

 

[Willie-T]

Nothing that I can think of.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. So, why would we expect a preacher to have to hold two jobs?

 

[beastslayer1970]

The above says it all and paints a sad picture of you.

The record is clear, John MacArthur makes around 250K from his church. That is a well known fact.

As I said, your hatred for brothers is sad and you're filled with slander. For the record I love his book Charismatic Chaos and Strange Fire. I also agree with them both. They are well documented.

Anyhow, you better go take a look at yourself in 1 John about that hate for brothers thing you have going on.

The victim game is very comical and predictable. How do you guys live in life? Honestly, you go around with a sanctimonious smug arrogance and use the calvie scorched earth policy and burn everything and everyone to the ground.

Then when the tables are turned you turn into weepy, needy, self righteous, childish victims, hoping that your self righteousness will cover up the fact you are covered completely and utterly in hypocritical spirits.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Joel Osteen wasn't even in the ministry when his dad died. They put him in as pastor anyways.

Joel should have never been given the church, we agree on that.

 

[Zi]

The originals had men chosen to wait tables so they themselves could be focused

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. So, why would we expect a preacher to have to hold two jobs?

 

[beastslayer1970]

I've shown you his church salary. CHURCH salary.

Here are the facts:

You hate Calvinists, who are brothers.

You lied and stated JM makes over a million from his church. That was proven false.

You then change it to 400K from his church. Which is still wrong.

Then you make a post about others slamming people to make them look better, and blast them. While, you know, you did exactly that yourself.

Your posts here are slander laden, name calling and inflammatory.

Please, PLEASE go examine your hate of brothers in light of 1 John.

You call people names all the time, own it man, grow up be a man, not a kid, you burn everyone around you and then wipe your mouth of their blood and go, what are you looking at!

Your boy SG loves posting funny gifs and links to vids of people with different beliefs and you guys just snort and chuckle. It's all good until someone comes nose to nose with you like I am and you cannot escape.

Playing the victim just continues to prove my point about you and your squad, so by all means keep playing the victim, anyone who cares can see right through your charade.

 

[beastslayer1970]

You guys got me to wondering about bi-vocational preachers. During His ministry, what kind of employment was Jesus engaged in?

Exactly willie!

 

[beastslayer1970]

The thing is JM makes about 250K from the church. Not over a million as has been reported here.

He also makes royalties on his books and from GTY.

He also makes a salary from The Master's Seminary.

Seems apparent he earns his wages and God has blessed him for preaching the truth and exposing error.

If here were half the man of God you claim he is, he would give it all away and live by faith. I say that about ALL the other celebrity preachers as well.

 

[beastslayer1970]

To be honest, all pastors are at the mercy of their congregation to a certain extent. They can vote their pastor out at any time.

I would agree and then ask you what book, chapter and verse in the Bible tell us a congregation /elder/deacon board vote pastors in and out of the church? Congregations and deacon /elder boards call their pastors to their church, the Bible says God calls the pastor to a church. Too many sister oh so spiritual and brother oh so bold can and do sway votes, this form of church government is not found anywhere in the Bible.

This is the very reason why Pastors are leaving ministry by the hundreds each month and thousands by the year. The time in ministry for a new Pastor is now 19 months down from 26 months last year.

I see the devil more in churches than the world.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. So, why would we expect a preacher to have to hold two jobs?

Luke 8 shows us that Jesus was ministered to financially by several different women. That said, does it say anywhere he stopped working as a carpenter?

Like I said, if a church wants to pay their pastor full time that up to them and I do not get upset over it. Paul was more than a pastor and was bi-vocational for much of his ministry, so we have that model as well.

In my travels, the churhces I see prospering spiritually the most are the avg sized local churches where the pastor is bi-vocational and receives love offerings or paid vacations trips, etc by the congregation.

I think churches play control when they pay a pastor, because invariably you have some that think the pastor should be paid a very livable wage and you have others that believe he should be woe and poe and on food stamps.

 

[BillG]

The above says it all and paints a sad picture of you.

The record is clear, John MacArthur makes around 250K from his church. That is a well known fact.

As I said, your hatred for brothers is sad and you're filled with slander. For the record I love his book Charismatic Chaos and Strange Fire. I also agree with them both. They are well documented.

Anyhow, you better go take a look at yourself in 1 John about that hate for brothers thing you have going on.

Hmm let's look at the above then the below.

Believe me I'm ecstatic you apologized. Seems you want everyone to be aware of BillG and his righteousness. And of others not up to par with you most especially. Are there any other nice things you've done you'd like to share?

Yes. I get it BillG. You want to blast and maligned me publicly, and you're doing just that (all in Christian love of course). But what is of note you supported PJ publicly. There is no denying that. You gave him a bye. Also you won't answer how that is like Jesus or even true to NT doctrine. Interesting for sure.

You're correct I had little respect after initially respecting you until witnessing several things. Respect is earned and when I saw you patronizing PJ with his nasty name calling, lies (vast amounts of this) heresy, blasphemy then getting petty as you are here with others while you allowed that and wanted us to lend him an ear? Well, to me it was sickening to see so I put you on ignore.

Recently I took you off ignore after PJ left but I've found you're just as biased and myopic as ever.

My mistake for taking you off ignore.

P4t has probably put me back on ignore so not sure if he will see this.
I'm sickening to him.

In other posts he saw fit to humiliate me, displayed his hatred for other brothers as well on other threads.

Just for the record I Pm'd earlier. Title was "Olive branch" seeking reconciliation.

No response.

FYI for me "I'm ecstatic you apologised" is sarcasm.

Nothing but love and compassion.

P4t where does your hatred for brothers come from?

My guess is that those who disagree with you are not brothers, that's why you hate them because they do not agree with you.

 

[SovereignGrace]

FYI...

This thread was not to tear anyone down, but expose false teaching(s).

This not a Calvinist tearing down an non-Calvinist thread.

I equally loathe Church of Christ and RCC theologies as much as I do prosperity teaching.

 

[beastslayer1970]

Hmm let's look at the above then the below.



P4t has probably put me back on ignore so not sure if he will see this.
I'm sickening to him.

In other posts he saw fit to humiliate me, displayed his hatred for other brothers as well on other threads.

Just for the record I Pm'd earlier. Title was "Olive branch" seeking reconciliation.

No response.

FYI for me "I'm ecstatic you apologised" is sarcasm.

Nothing but love and compassion.

P4t where does your hatred for brothers come from?

My guess is that those who disagree with you are not brothers, that's why you hate them because they do not agree with you.

He actually edited one of my posts when I first joined this site and I did make a thread on it and boy he was hard to find.

One of the hardest groups of people to get back on track for the kingdom are Calvinists who got shunned by their own.