What is the proper salary for a pastor?

[Depleted]

My first 50+ years was with uneducated pastors and preachers, and I'm still unraveling that mess! I am still having to undo a lot of bad teaching and to learn the most rudimentary biblical concepts! At this point -- at age 68 -- I don't think I will ever be through dealing with reeducation!

One of my most recent studies before last night's -- which is not even close to finished by any means -- the person of the H Spirit. As hesitant as I was, that was followed up by biblical examples of tongues -- a study I am dragging my feet on.
Before these, I started studying, again, Law, law, works, and sin. And last night, I was up all night with a biblical study of the end of time.

Some of these are simple concepts for most who have been students of the Bible, yet I have been such for 54 years, and I feel like a novice, because of spending so long with bad teaching. Sometimes, it is just plain disheartening.

It is fortunate that where I attend now, leaders and teachers are educated, or they are neither leading or teaching. I just wish I could attend all the classes, but I am fortunate to get one a week.

Tongues? Cool beans!

(I know, you wroite all that and I got the part where you're hesitant on tongues. lol)

I recently started reading Acts. Really recently, since I'm only on Acts 2, but because of that bad teaching I did get, I'm just now trying to put the pieces together on what happened right after Pentecost. The dudes -- fishermen and tax collectors -- were speaking clearly to a bunch of people not-from-around-these-here-parts, so I got curious on which languages they were speaking. After all, if you think about Jerusalem today, there are only three languages I can imagine being spoken in that area -- Hebrew, Arabic, or English. (And I suspect I hooked onto English because I only speak American, so any time I've ever understood anything anyone from that part of the world said was when they could speak English. I really don't know if English is a common language in that part of the world.)

So, I'm having fun. (Why study, if we're not having fun doing it? lol) The last couple of days I've been taking each group of people mentioned in Acts 2 to figure out who they were, how far away from home they were, and all to see if they would be speaking the same language or not. Bonus learning happening to. I'm getting where Parthians lived. And Elamites. And Mesopotamia was.

Just wanted to give you a heads up. You don't have to stick to courses to study. Just read something in the Bible that gets you curious and then go off on that. Sometimes learning badly, gives us a good reason to sink our teeth into the truth on our own. Ends up studying that day of tongue-talking has broaden my understanding more than I expected it to.

 

[Depleted]

What pastors need is an ANOINTING. Instead we have people who go into the pastorate on mere knowledge. And not necessarily knowledge of God, but what they were taught. Which as you apparently now know can be two very different things. We think just because someone is a good speaker and very well trained and knowledgeable in the particular things he was taught and handles those teachings well that he must be sent of God. Not true at all. He's just good at what he knows, not good at knowing the truth.

It's all about the anointing. The church is full of educated pastors, but little anointing. I've only met 3 or 4 pastors that I sensed were anointed by God to be pastors. The rest were really no different than the sheep but had spent lots of money to be a leader in the church.

As far as I can tell at this point, an anointing is discerned by the ability of a person to know and teach the Bible with personal insights and inspirations that come from God and were not simply taught to him and told this is the truth, teach it. Just being good at parroting what you were taught is hardly the mark of a true pastor sent and anointed by God. A school teacher can do that. It's a skill and a talent to be able to teach, but by itself it's hardly what proves a person has been called to be a pastor/teacher. I think insightful and inspirational revelation is the mark of the true pastor.

To serve well and to be doubly honored is to be anointed. God's people will support such a man. You don't have to twist and manipulate the flock to support such a man.

Last summer, someone was bummed because he lost his job at a Christian Charity. The charity died, so he lost his job. He thought he lost his job because his "anointing dried up."

Sometime in the last year, someone else was complaining that they couldn't get the miracle they wanted because their "anointing dried up." He actually thought the Lord anointed him to do this thing, and then took back the oil. (Whether symbolic or real, I didn't ask.)

I've heard a lot of self-professing miracle-workers tell people they couldn't be healed because they weren't anointed.

So, really? As much crap as I've heard about this famous "anointing," I still have no idea what that means in modern days, but don't think it has much to do with the Bible. It seems some kind of inner-circle lingo people use when they really can't figure out the real word, if there is a real word. And considering the anointing was an OT symbolic thing God used for physical proof of something he already chose to do with the person, I don't have much faith in "THE ANOINTING" as you seem to have.

 

[maxwel]

Last summer, someone was bummed because he lost his job at a Christian Charity. The charity died, so he lost his job. He thought he lost his job because his "anointing dried up."

Sometime in the last year, someone else was complaining that they couldn't get the miracle they wanted because their "anointing dried up." He actually thought the Lord anointed him to do this thing, and then took back the oil. (Whether symbolic or real, I didn't ask.)

I've heard a lot of self-professing miracle-workers tell people they couldn't be healed because they weren't anointed.

So, really? As much crap as I've heard about this famous "anointing," I still have no idea what that means in modern days, but don't think it has much to do with the Bible. It seems some kind of inner-circle lingo people use when they really can't figure out the real word, if there is a real word. And considering the anointing was an OT symbolic thing God used for physical proof of something he already chose to do with the person, I don't have much faith in "THE ANOINTING" as you seem to have.

I think your annointing dried up.

 

[Depleted]

As For the topic of "Pastor pay" I believe that a pastor should be payed what God desires for him to have,because God always"gives the increase" or "provides for his sheep" just in like manner as Jesus told the disciples for "following him" that they were "receiving blessings" if one is called to be a pastor then he ought not take worry of what "money" he "can get from people for preaching" he ought to "do as God asks of him" for one should think "whom can provide better than God"?"whom will not forsake you?
For if a pastor preaches all upon the intention to "get payed" then it doesn't matter how many people he "brings into a church" with his preaching,to choose "people" instead of "God" to serve is to have "nothing".

Kind of like going into social work for the pay. No one does either for the pay. Some may do either for bad motives, but it's never to get so much money. If it's just for the pay, collecting trash pays more and less hassle. lol

 

[Depleted]

I grew up with that same concept. Where I come from, the pastor and his family needed to be available ALL the time which would take time away from each other in order to help someone else. His wife was expected to take care of all the domestics with raising and rearing the children and being in the leadership ministry herself. Neither one of these people could not hold down a 9 to 5 job because the church family took priority. With all of that said it is common for the pastors home whether it be rent or a mortgage is taken care of by the church as an asset (for taxes) and enough money to cover anything the family needs to survive as his income. It's sad how people feel like it's their responsibility to tell someone how to spend their money. I don't know about the rest of you, but I wouldn't dare tell my neighbor how to spend his lol

I wouldn't either, but mostly because I know my neighbors would deck me for doing that. lol

 

[maxwel]

I thought I was being gracious by purposely using phrases like 'I think'. If you don't, this group over here thinks you're being an arrogant know it all. If you do, you get accused of not having any scriptural support. Who wants to pastor that kind of flock? Only an anointing from God could cause a person to bear up under that kind of crap.

Nonetheless, I'm afraid none of your consternation amounts to an actual REBUTTAL of what I said.

I showed in post #236 that you gave a definition of a biblical doctrine which you simply pulled out of thin air, but you presented this pure fabrication as an absolute fact.

When someone pulls something out of thin air, and claims it to be a fact, that is a pretty good example of bad doctrine.



And getting upset about it does not constitute a rebuttal.

 

[Depleted]

I think your annointing dried up.

Meh. Our olive oil usually goes rancid before drying up. lol

 

[notuptome]

Actually it doesn't have to be horibly expensive if you have either some craftsmanship or some skilled friends.

In many places, an acre of wooded land can be bought for under $20,000. If you cut and mill your own lumber, your total building costs could be under $35,000 for a 3 bedroom 2 bath house.

First church of Paul Bunyan? Do you want a pastor or a lumberjack?

Do you have your hair cut by student barbers or do you only seek medical attention from med students? Why is it the Lord can supply all our needs but we will not allow ourselves to be used of the Lord to take care of the needs of the man of God who oversees the assembly of Gods people?

We expect everything from the pastor and cannot be moved to extend kindness to his needs and his families needs. No wonder there is a dearth of good pastors.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Beez]

Tongues? Cool beans!

(I know, you wroite all that and I got the part where you're hesitant on tongues. lol)

​

So, I'm having fun. (Why study, if we're not having fun doing it? lol)

Indeed!! Love studying. That's why I am so poor at just reading: I see way too many bunny trails that are just crying to be taken!

​

Just wanted to give you a heads up. You don't have to stick to courses to study. Just read something in the Bible that gets you curious and then go off on that. Sometimes learning badly, gives us a good reason to sink our teeth into the truth on our own. Ends up studying that day of tongue-talking has broaden my understanding more than I expected it to.

I'm not taking any courses right now -- wishing I was. Just studying the Bible for now. But my husband is showing interest in taking a class where we attend, and I'd like to go, too.

 

[Nehemiah6]

First church of Paul Bunyan? Do you want a pastor or a lumberjack?

If a lumberjack can preach and teach why not? That would be better than a man indoctrinated in a seminary to attack the Word of God and deride the supernatural. BTW John Bunyan was poor humble tinker, but he wasn't in the habit of tinkering with the Word of God.

 

[Ralph-]

Nonetheless, I'm afraid none of your consternation amounts to an actual REBUTTAL of what I said.

I showed in post #236 that you gave a definition of a biblical doctrine which you simply pulled out of thin air, but you presented this pure fabrication as an absolute fact.

When someone pulls something out of thin air, and claims it to be a fact, that is a pretty good example of bad doctrine.



And getting upset about it does not constitute a rebuttal.

Have you never heard of the anointing through the laying on of hands-2 Timothy 1:6? A seminary trained Reformed pastor once told me he did not believe in that laying on of hands stuff and being empowered that way. Then I flipped my Bible open and read this passage out loud. He didn't know what to say. He was a nice guy. He didn't try to make it not mean what it said as people usually do when confronted with truth they do not know or want to resist.

Do yourself and the church a favor, people. If you don't have the anointing to be a pastor please don't be one. If you do, you'll bore your congregation to death and you'll have to beg for support and everyone will wonder how much a pastor is supposed to get paid.

 

[Beez]

I have to admit that I am grateful for leaders who are seminary-educated. Not all of them talk about their training, but the one I have to admit is my favorite teacher was a bit of a rebel in seminary (and likely in his other schooling), refusing to just accept common thought regarding Scripture. He was willing to risk both grades and graduation, in order to preserve Scriptural truth. He had become a believer at @ age 7 and was reared in a pastor's home, his father also being a maverick for truth.

Being seminary-trained does not automatically guarantee just another factory-made drone.

 

[Sagart]

My only problem with your view....a piece of paper from some college does not equal intelligence, common sense or wisdom.......I have met many an educated idiot with less common sense than the rocks in my driveway and men with no formal education that are brilliant!!!!

A Ph.D. diploma from Harvard University, Princeton University, or the University of Chicago is hardly just a piece of paper! It is a document that certifies that that the man or woman whose name appears on the diploma successfully completed a rigorous and extensive course of study, and then performed original research of such value as to be published by a publisher of academic research. Furthermore, it is a document that proves that the man or woman whose name appears on the diploma had the intelligence and study habits necessary to be admitted, not only to an exceptionally fine college or university for his/her undergraduate degree program, but to be accepted in a doctoral program in a fine university. Moreover, I know from personal experience that being accepted in a doctoral program in a fine university involves a whole lot more than filling in the blanks on a piece of paper—it involves proving to the graduate department of the university that one is capable of successfully completing the doctoral program.

Pastors who have successfully completed a doctoral program from a fine seminary or university, and who have a Ph.D. or Th.D. diploma to prove it, are certified to not only have an exceptionally fine education, but also to have the study habits necessary to continue their education as they serve their church. Pastors who have this requirement, and who also meet the spiritual and moral requirements to serve as a pastor, deserve a generous compensation from their congregation.

Nonetheless, there will always be the simpletons who know “everything”—even enough to “know” that the men who disagree with their nonsense are idiots.

 

[Sagart]

What pastors need is an ANOINTING. Instead we have people who go into the pastorate on mere knowledge. And not necessarily knowledge of God, but what they were taught. Which as you apparently now know can be two very different things. We think just because someone is a good speaker and very well trained and knowledgeable in the particular things he was taught and handles those teachings well that he must be sent of God. Not true at all. He's just good at what he knows, not good at knowing the truth.

It's all about the anointing. The church is full of educated pastors, but little anointing. I've only met 3 or 4 pastors that I sensed were anointed by God to be pastors. The rest were really no different than the sheep but had spent lots of money to be a leader in the church.

As far as I can tell at this point, an anointing is discerned by the ability of a person to know and teach the Bible with personal insights and inspirations that come from God and were not simply taught to him and told this is the truth, teach it. Just being good at parroting what you were taught is hardly the mark of a true pastor sent and anointed by God. A school teacher can do that. It's a skill and a talent to be able to teach, but by itself it's hardly what proves a person has been called to be a pastor/teacher. I think insightful and inspirational revelation is the mark of the true pastor.

To serve well and to be doubly honored is to be anointed. God's people will support such a man. You don't have to twist and manipulate the flock to support such a man.

Nearly all of the hundreds upon hundreds of false teachings that popped up in the 19th and 20th centuries came from the pulpits and pens of “anointed” preachers who lacked both a university and a seminary education! If a pastor lacks an education for God to work with, no amount of anointing will enable the pastor to teach his congregation. An anointing to teach is valuable; an education is essential! Even the “ignorant” Apostle Peter was fluent in Greek, and would have known more than a little bit of Hebrew and Latin. He also knew Jesus personally, and did not need to learn about Him in seminary classes. Furthermore, he lived in the first century Hellenistic culture—and knew the details about it first hand!

 

[maxwel]

Have you never heard of the anointing through the laying on of hands-2 Timothy 1:6? A seminary trained Reformed pastor once told me he did not believe in that laying on of hands stuff and being empowered that way. Then I flipped my Bible open and read this passage out loud. He didn't know what to say. He was a nice guy. He didn't try to make it not mean what it said as people usually do when confronted with truth they do not know or want to resist.

Do yourself and the church a favor, people. If you don't have the anointing to be a pastor please don't be one. If you do, you'll bore your congregation to death and you'll have to beg for support and everyone will wonder how much a pastor is supposed to get paid.

The Bible says ALL CHRISTIANS ARE ANOINTED... and all it means is to be "set apart for God"... and that is something that HAPPENS TO ALL CHRISTIANS THE MOMENT WE ARE SAVED... we are SET APART FOR GOD.

2Co 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
This is talking about ALL CHRISTIANS.
It's talking about all those who are sealed to God, and have the spirit... that is every saved believer.
We are all "set apart for God", and that's all "anointed" means.

It literally just means to "dab with a glob of oil"... but in both OT and NT it always meant to "set apart"... nothing more and nothing less.

It's not a magical power.
All Christians are "anointed"... we are all "set apart for God".

Good grief.

 

[Beez]

. . . there will always be the simpletons who know “everything”—even enough to “know” that the men who disagree with their nonsense are idiots.

I once knew someone I thought was like this. Sometimes, such surprise us! This one surprised me. While I did not attend his church, I became closely acquainted with him on a nearly daily basis, and within months of his taking the pastorate, he went back to classes, swallowed his pride, and grew by leaps and bounds. The things that had come out of his mouth when we first met were absolute opposite a few years later. Furthermore, he learned to ask for advice and also learned how to listen.

We are no longer living in the same state, but wow, the transition! He is a great man!

It can happen!!

 

[maxwel]

The Bible says ALL CHRISTIANS ARE ANOINTED... and all it means is to be "set apart for God"... and that is something that HAPPENS TO ALL CHRISTIANS THE MOMENT WE ARE SAVED... we are SET APART FOR GOD.

2Co 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
This is talking about ALL CHRISTIANS.
It's talking about all those who are sealed to God, and have the spirit... that is every saved believer.
We are all "set apart for God", and that's all "anointed" means.

It literally just means to "dab with a glob of oil"... but in both OT and NT it always meant to "set apart"... nothing more and nothing less.

It's not a magical power.
All Christians are "anointed"... we are all "set apart for God".

Good grief.

More on ALL CHRISTIANS BEING ANOINTED


Kings and Priests in the Old Testament were "anointed"... set apart for God.

In the New Testament, the Bible says we are ALL KINGS AND PRIESTS
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

We are all Kings and Priests, and we are ALL SET APART FOR GOD... and that's what it means to be anointed.

So we have a verse showing all christians are anointed, and another verse showing we are all kings and priests.


All believers are kings and priests, all believers are anointed, all believers are thus set apart for God, to serve him.


There is no magical super power called being "anointed".
It it's just an act of setting people apart,
and we are ALL SET APART FOR GOD.

 

[Sagart]

More on ALL CHRISTIANS BEING ANOINTED


Kings and Priests in the Old Testament were "anointed"... set apart for God.

In the New Testament, the Bible says we are ALL KINGS AND PRIESTS
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

We are all Kings and Priests, and we are ALL SET APART FOR GOD... and that's what it means to be anointed.

So we have a verse showing all christians are anointed, and another verse showing we are all kings and priests.


All believers are kings and priests, all believers are anointed, all believers are thus set apart for God, to serve him.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Definition of anoint

transitive verb
1: to smear or rub with oil or an oily substance
2a : to apply oil to as part of a religious ceremony
· The priestanointed the sick.
b : to choose by or as if by divine election
· anoint him as his successor
; also : to designate as if by a ritual anointment
· Critics have anointed her as an important new literary figure.​

I have met men whom I believe were anointed by God with the gift of teaching.

 

[maxwel]

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Definition of anoint

transitive verb
1: to smear or rub with oil or an oily substance
2a : to apply oil to as part of a religious ceremony
· The priestanointed the sick.
b : to choose by or as if by divine election
· anoint him as his successor
; also : to designate as if by a ritual anointment
· Critics have anointed her as an important new literary figure.​

I have met men whom I believe were anointed by God with the gift of teaching.

That's fine, but that just isn't in the Bible.

Biblically, people aren't "anointed" with the gift of teaching, they are just "spiritually gifted" with the gift of teaching.

To anoint literally means to rub with oil, and in the Bible it is always used to show "consecration" which is to "set apart"... that's all. And All christians are "set apart for God" the moment we are saved and become his - as I explained in a post above.

So, I am CERTAIN you have met men who were "spiritually gifted" for teaching.
But there isn't anyone "anointed for teaching" as that just never appears in scripture, and it's a wrong use of the word.

If we're going to use Biblical words and concepts, we should use them carefully, and draw distinctions where God does.
Therefore, to be "spiritually gifted" for teaching is not the same as being "anointed" for teaching... there is no such thing in the Bible as being "anointed for teaching".

 

[maxwel]

Sagart,

I'm sorry if my post above sounded argumentative.
I have no bone to pick with you.

But very often Christians, with completely good intentions, slip into a very common logical error of equivocation.
That doesn't make a person bad, and it doesn't make a person stupid.
But a logical error is still a logical error.

Often this occurs when we've heard others use a word a certain way, over and over, and we just use it the same way without really thinking about it.

This isn't indicative of any bad intent.
It's just what humans do.

Equivocation occurs when we "equate" one thing with another, but those things are not actually the same.
For example: using the phrase "anointed to teach" when the correct phrase would be "gifted to teach".

Why all the fuss?

Because distinguishing one word from another is the very BASIS OF LANGUAGE.
Therefore, to study and do exegesis of scripture, our very foundation has to be distinguishing one word from another.

Distinguishing words is foundational to language, and foundational to Bible study.
If we fail to do this, we will end up with errors of equivocation.

And again, very nice people, with very good intentions, say all kinds of things which aren't exactly in the Bible.
They do that because they've heard others do it, maybe for decades... and they never even CONSIDERED there could be any REASON to study it out.

These things usually happen with good intentions.

But equivocation can lead to more and more error.
Wrongly equating one thing with another can lead us to misunderstand one verse, then another, then another.... and so it snowballs.
So even though an equivocation may arise from good intentions, it still needs to be addressed.


I apologize if my post above, in response to you, sounded rude.