Is Catholicism Christian? Are Catholics Saved?
- Thread starter MessageOfTheCross
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Hello again Inquistor,
I believe We misunderstand many scriptures because God Is not subject to time as we know it. The scripture you gave could be across time. Einstein's space-time continuum states where there is no matter, there is no time. God is not subject to matter or time. Like when Abel's blood cried to God from the ground after Cain slew him. We must fit all scripture together or none of it is valid. Christianity has changed as knowledge has increased. It wasn't believed that Christ was physically and literally returning to the earth until about 1844. It was believed that God would still heal the sick until about 1900 (Pentecostal movement.)
I believe We misunderstand many scriptures because God Is not subject to time as we know it. The scripture you gave could be across time. Einstein's space-time continuum states where there is no matter, there is no time. God is not subject to matter or time. Like when Abel's blood cried to God from the ground after Cain slew him. We must fit all scripture together or none of it is valid. Christianity has changed as knowledge has increased. It wasn't believed that Christ was physically and literally returning to the earth until about 1844. It was believed that God would still heal the sick until about 1900 (Pentecostal movement.)
Why is it that most of you don't care that your beliefs would have had you labeled a heretic by the early Christian Church?
I ask in all sincerity because when I was thinking of leaving the Catholic Church what brought me back was that the beliefs of every other Christian group (excluding the Orthodox faith) would have got them excommunicated. This bothered me greatly because my focus was on finding the Church Jesus said He would protect.
Why doesn't it bother you that your beliefs cause a gap or broken chain of beliefs in Jesus' Church? And given that broken chain or gap between the early Church and your beliefs how do you validate that Jesus kept His promise to build and protect His Church?
Please no Catholic bashing. Not that I can't take it, but I'm looking for your rationale and that alone because I truly can't wrap my head around the logic.
Thanks!
-Ernie-
I ask in all sincerity because when I was thinking of leaving the Catholic Church what brought me back was that the beliefs of every other Christian group (excluding the Orthodox faith) would have got them excommunicated. This bothered me greatly because my focus was on finding the Church Jesus said He would protect.
Why doesn't it bother you that your beliefs cause a gap or broken chain of beliefs in Jesus' Church? And given that broken chain or gap between the early Church and your beliefs how do you validate that Jesus kept His promise to build and protect His Church?
Please no Catholic bashing. Not that I can't take it, but I'm looking for your rationale and that alone because I truly can't wrap my head around the logic.
Thanks!
-Ernie-
And yet you (the non-Catholic / anti-Catholic denominations of the world) DISREGARDED and REMOVED 14 Jewish SCRIPTURE BOOKS from bibles, which had been Jewish SCRIPTURES from before the birth of Christ until as late as 1881!
The Apocrypha Books of the King James Bible - Kindle edition ...
www.amazon.com/apocrypha-books-king-james-bible-eboo...▼
Before the 1880's every English Protestant Bible printed had 80 books, not 66! The inter-testamental books written hundreds of years before Christ called “The Apocrypha” were part of virtually every printing of the Tyndale-Matthews Bible, the Great Bible, the Bishops Bible, the Protestant Geneva Bible, and the King James ...
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NOT Jewish Scriptures. Jewish apocryphal books which were never regarded as Scripture until the translators of the LXX decided to include them in this corrupt Greek translation. But the Catholic scholar Jerome recognized this error, and planned to exclude them from the Latin Vulgate until he was forced to include them.
Inquistor,
You can throw a living being into the lake of fire and they will die. When Christ comes back He will throw many into the lake of fire. It has nothing to do with their salvation. You cannot come to God unless your are drawn (see John 6:44) and then given the Holy Spirit. If this hasn't happened in this life, It does not preclude it happening in the second resurrection.
I have written 2 books explaining God's salvation plan.
Yours, Deade
You can throw a living being into the lake of fire and they will die. When Christ comes back He will throw many into the lake of fire. It has nothing to do with their salvation. You cannot come to God unless your are drawn (see John 6:44) and then given the Holy Spirit. If this hasn't happened in this life, It does not preclude it happening in the second resurrection.
I have written 2 books explaining God's salvation plan.
Yours, Deade
Congratulations on writing two books. Were they Holy Spirit inspired? Do your beliefs encompass the scriptures linked immediately below?
https://www.alltheinternet.com/?q=these+signs+shall+follow&ref=12292017231551&p=
If what you say above is true, WHY did Jesus tell Peter "Feed My sheep?"
https://www.alltheinternet.com/?q=Feed+my+sheep&ref=12282017180544&p=
You are WAY OFF! That term was FIRST USED in the late 1500's, NOT in the time of Christ!
apocryphal - Wiktionary
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/apocryphal▼
... Greek ἀπόκρυφος (apókruphos, “hidden, obscure”, thus “(books) of unknown authorship”), from ἀπό (apó, “from”) + κρύπτω (krúptō, “I hide”). Properly plural ( the singular would be apocryphon), but commonly treated as a collective singular . “Apocryphal” meaning “of doubtful authenticity” is first attested in English in 1590.
The correct term is DEUTEROCANONICAL!
https://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/DEUTEROS.HTM
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Context is the key to understanding Scripture. And the context (1 Cor 3:1-15) is about the works or labors of Christians for Christ and how they will be judged and rewarded in Heaven. Since Paul likens the works to gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble, it is evident that these are METAPHORS for the quality of service rendered to Christ, with gold being the most excellent and stubble being the most worthless.
Thus the "fire" through which they are tested for their quality is a metaphorical fire -- Christ's perfect judgment of each and every work. Gold, silver, and precious stones remain unaffected and unburnt, hence those kinds of good works will receive their appropriate rewards. On the other hand, wood, hay, and stubble will be simply burned up, which means there will be no rewards for these Christians.
"But he himself shall be saved" confirms the fact that salvation is by grace through faith, and not of works, therefore that person's salvation will not be affected. However he will be ashamed of himself for having nothing worthwhile to present to Christ. So this has nothing to do with imaginary Purgatory, and certainly nothing to do with the fires of Hell (the Lake of Fire).
Thus the "fire" through which they are tested for their quality is a metaphorical fire -- Christ's perfect judgment of each and every work. Gold, silver, and precious stones remain unaffected and unburnt, hence those kinds of good works will receive their appropriate rewards. On the other hand, wood, hay, and stubble will be simply burned up, which means there will be no rewards for these Christians.
"But he himself shall be saved" confirms the fact that salvation is by grace through faith, and not of works, therefore that person's salvation will not be affected. However he will be ashamed of himself for having nothing worthwhile to present to Christ. So this has nothing to do with imaginary Purgatory, and certainly nothing to do with the fires of Hell (the Lake of Fire).
riginally Posted by Inquistor
Very true! But what did (or does) God care about Jews?
Maybe G-d is a Jew? Unless Y-shua is not a Jew? Maybe He is not G-d? Nor YOUR SALVATION?
WHY WOULD G-D CREATOR OF MANKIND CARE ABOUT JEWS?.... SILLY RINGT?... ARE WE THE BUBBLEGUM ON THE BOTTOM OF YOUR SHOE? WAIT DON'T TELL ME... IT"S YOUR RACE AND YOU ARE NOTHING RIGHT!?! ... WHAT A STUPID QUESTION!!! PLEASE DON'TCONFIRM YOU ARE THAT STUPID!!!! THE SAD THING IF COULD BE SAVED TOO!!!! STUPID IS NOT UNFORGIVABLE!!! SHOULD BE!!! THANK G-d I'M NOT G-D!!!
Very true! But what did (or does) God care about Jews?
Maybe G-d is a Jew? Unless Y-shua is not a Jew? Maybe He is not G-d? Nor YOUR SALVATION?
WHY WOULD G-D CREATOR OF MANKIND CARE ABOUT JEWS?.... SILLY RINGT?... ARE WE THE BUBBLEGUM ON THE BOTTOM OF YOUR SHOE? WAIT DON'T TELL ME... IT"S YOUR RACE AND YOU ARE NOTHING RIGHT!?! ... WHAT A STUPID QUESTION!!! PLEASE DON'TCONFIRM YOU ARE THAT STUPID!!!! THE SAD THING IF COULD BE SAVED TOO!!!! STUPID IS NOT UNFORGIVABLE!!! SHOULD BE!!! THANK G-d I'M NOT G-D!!!
Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was ...
biblehub.com/revelation/20-10.htm▼
Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. English Standard Version and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false ...
No, he is CORRECT!
https://www.google.com/search?sourc...4...0j0i131k1j0i13k1j0i8i7i30k1.0.pBE5LHm1nlw
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J
shepherd of Hermas and the letters of Barnabas are two. both were books that no one had a problem with in the early days. why do we need councils to decide what books we are to read, isnt that what the spirit of truth is for?
i think there are more than 40 books mentioned by name in the bible, plus you have all the times scripture is quoted from books we dont have. how do you lose a holy scripture? oops we lost that scripture?? i dont believe it.
i think there are more than 40 books mentioned by name in the bible, plus you have all the times scripture is quoted from books we dont have. how do you lose a holy scripture? oops we lost that scripture?? i dont believe it.
Catholics do claim Jesus as Lord and Savior,and believe in His death,burial,and resurrection.
But the Catholics do a lot of things that are not part of the Bible,but sin can be forgiven,but they appear to be grave errors.
God said He does not give His glory to another,and to not make a statue of anything,or any person,or any creature,and reverence it,and Jesus said not to exalt Mary by saying all who does the will of God the same is His mother,brethren,and sister,and the person that hears the word of God,and does it,is as blessed as Mary,and born of women there has not been a greater than John the Baptist,so Jesus considered John greater than Mary,and they call her the Queen of heaven,and mother of God.
Is that a grave error if they exalt Mary,and bow down to a statue of her,and reverence her,or will God overlook it.
A man approached Jesus according to His humanity,and said good Master,and Jesus said why call Me good,for there is only one good and that is God,and said do not call any person on earth father in a spiritual sense,but only your heavenly father,and Christ is the head of the Church,but they call the Pope holy father,and he is the head of the Church.
Is that a grave error if they exalt the pope,and look at him in that viewpoint,or will God overlook it.
Jesus said the Pharisees by their traditions,make the word of God of none effect,and the Catholic Church does many things that are not in the Bible to do those things,and use physical objects like there is some benefit there,and love is the fulfilling of law.
Is this a grave error,or will God overlook it.
And other things they do that are not in the Bible,and Jesus said do not fight for the kingdom of God by physical force,like the Catholics did,but that is in the past,but still shows how they are wrong.
I view the Roman Catholic Church like this.When they embraced Christianity they did not get rid of their religious ways,but held unto them,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.
The people love God,and think nothing is amiss,but will God overlook it the errors of it that they believe.
If they include Mary,and the Pope,as part of a benefit in the saints lives,and they make them out to be special,when God said all benefits come from Christ,and God does not give His glory to another,will God overlook it.
But the Catholics do a lot of things that are not part of the Bible,but sin can be forgiven,but they appear to be grave errors.
God said He does not give His glory to another,and to not make a statue of anything,or any person,or any creature,and reverence it,and Jesus said not to exalt Mary by saying all who does the will of God the same is His mother,brethren,and sister,and the person that hears the word of God,and does it,is as blessed as Mary,and born of women there has not been a greater than John the Baptist,so Jesus considered John greater than Mary,and they call her the Queen of heaven,and mother of God.
Is that a grave error if they exalt Mary,and bow down to a statue of her,and reverence her,or will God overlook it.
A man approached Jesus according to His humanity,and said good Master,and Jesus said why call Me good,for there is only one good and that is God,and said do not call any person on earth father in a spiritual sense,but only your heavenly father,and Christ is the head of the Church,but they call the Pope holy father,and he is the head of the Church.
Is that a grave error if they exalt the pope,and look at him in that viewpoint,or will God overlook it.
Jesus said the Pharisees by their traditions,make the word of God of none effect,and the Catholic Church does many things that are not in the Bible to do those things,and use physical objects like there is some benefit there,and love is the fulfilling of law.
Is this a grave error,or will God overlook it.
And other things they do that are not in the Bible,and Jesus said do not fight for the kingdom of God by physical force,like the Catholics did,but that is in the past,but still shows how they are wrong.
I view the Roman Catholic Church like this.When they embraced Christianity they did not get rid of their religious ways,but held unto them,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.
The people love God,and think nothing is amiss,but will God overlook it the errors of it that they believe.
If they include Mary,and the Pope,as part of a benefit in the saints lives,and they make them out to be special,when God said all benefits come from Christ,and God does not give His glory to another,will God overlook it.