Who are the two witnesses/prophets in Revelation?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#101
Jul 18, 2017
24,637
13,038
113
#101
Bladerunner said:
Only in Revelation do we see them thrown out of HEaven
Click to expand...
If that is true and the events of Revelation 12 are future, then according to you Satan is still in God's Heaven with the evil angels. Does that make any kind of biblical sense, and can you provide Scripture that says that these rebellious creatures are still in Heaven.

Revelation 12 is just before Revelation 13, which means that Satan and his evil angels are presently in the first and second heavens and will be cast out of them to earth by Michael and his holy angels. And if you have a problem with outer space being the second heaven, kindly tell us exactly where the second heaven is.
 
Bladerunner

Bladerunner

Senior Member
#102
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#102
Nehemiah6 said:
If that is true and the events of Revelation 12 are future, then according to you Satan is still in God's Heaven with the evil angels. Does that make any kind of biblical sense, and can you provide Scripture that says that these rebellious creatures are still in Heaven.

Revelation 12 is just before Revelation 13, which means that Satan and his evil angels are presently in the first and second heavens and will be cast out of them to earth by Michael and his holy angels. And if you have a problem with outer space being the second heaven, kindly tell us exactly where the second heaven is.
Click to expand...

Satan is the 'Prince of the AIR'. Over all in the air and on the Face of the Earth... NOT HELL!. Try this scripture that tells us, Satan is traveling from Heaven to earth and back again..... I do believe that I could be so presumptive that His angels are still in Heaven and doing the same as He even unto today.

Job 1:7..."And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

Rev 12 is in the Future.....The Woman is Israel (that is who Daniel's 70th week is for!), The Child the ascended to Heaven was in my mind and many others as well, is the "Body of Christ" ascending to heaven. REV 12 actually repeats Jesus' prophecy in Mat 24:15-22.....

The other reason I do believe that Satan is still in heaven is the anti-christ which just happens to be a man until the Abomination of Desolate which Daniel spoke of. At this time, the Man is Killed or at least thought to be killed with a head and arm wound. It is not man who declares himself God but Satan reincarnate within the Man known as the Anti-christ. Here the Man is arisen miraculously and it goes on from there.

Well, I do not remember the Bible telling us the 2nd heaven is outer space. I do know the Sun, Moon and Stars are all in the 1st Heaven.. It actually tells us this.
 
Last edited:
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#103
Jul 31, 2013
36,726
13,151
113
#103
miknik5 said:
Yes That is true

Yet Moses died physically and does not need to physically come back and die again

Enoch and Elijah did not die physically
and all men are flesh and flesh will be changed for those who will not suffer the second death
moses doesn’t fit that pattern
Click to expand...
But are Enoch and Elijah in heaven now in their old earthly flesh bodies? Or were they changed when "taken up"? If they have already been changed then they have already experienced a form of death, the same form that all "Who are alive and remain" will likewise experience - else you've got the same problem with all saints living when Christ returns to snatch us up, that being, "appointed to all men to die once"
 
Last edited:
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#104
Jul 18, 2017
24,637
13,038
113
#104
posthuman said:
But are Enoch and Elijah in heaven now in their old earthly flesh bodies? Or were they changed when "taken up"?
Click to expand...
Since Moses and Elijah appeared " in glory" at the Transfiguration, they would have had glorified bodies at that time.

Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem. (Lk 9:31)

Since Enoch did not appear, he will receive his glorified body at the Resurrection/Rapture.
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#105
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#105
posthuman said:
But are Enoch and Elijah in heaven now in their old earthly flesh bodies? Or were they changed when "taken up"? If they have already been changed then they have already experienced a form of death, the same form that all "Who are alive and remain" will likewise experience - else you've got the same problem with all saints living when Christ returns to snatch us up, that being, "appointed to all men to die once"
Click to expand...
Nehemiah6 said:
Since Moses and Elijah appeared " in glory" at the Transfiguration, they would have had glorified bodies at that time.

Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem. (Lk 9:31)

Since Enoch did not appear, he will receive his glorified body at the Resurrection/Rapture.
Click to expand...
Moses died
Enoch and Elijah didn’t physically die


in revelation 11 the two witnesses die
can a glorified body which has put on immortality die?
 
G

garee

Banned
#106
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#106
miknik5 said:
Moses died
Enoch and Elijah didn’t physically die


in revelation 11 the two witnesses die
can a glorified body which has put on immortality die?
Click to expand...
They most certainly did physically.Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. That vision represented the first resurrection which occurred when Christ said it is finished . The graves were opened and the then thousand times ten thousand saints entered the mansion (the new heavenly Jerusalem as the bride of Christ he was preparing).It is finished many rooms with a great view are left .
 
G

garee

Banned
#107
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#107
miknik5 said:
Moses died
Enoch and Elijah didn’t physically die


in revelation 11 the two witnesses die
can a glorified body which has put on immortality die?
Click to expand...

The two witness are the law and prophets.The word of God represented by the law, under the power of the gospel represented by the prophets . (sola scriptura)

When he comes on the last day will he find a exclusive faith that comes from hearing the law and the prophets or will the word of God be be killed by those who make it to no effect through the tradition as commandments of men Like that of Catholicism or the world before the flood when every imagination of the heart natural man as source of faith (dead faith) was evil constantly.



Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#108
Jul 18, 2017
24,637
13,038
113
#108
miknik5 said:
Moses died
Enoch and Elijah didn’t physically die

in revelation 11 the two witnesses die
can a glorified body which has put on immortality die?
Click to expand...
All we can do is go by what is revealed in Scripture, and God has certainly NOT provided every detail for our curiosity. Some things remain hidden from us, so there would be no point in speculating about the exact details.
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#109
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#109
garee said:
They most certainly did physically.Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. That vision represented the first resurrection which occurred when Christ said it is finished . The graves were opened and the then thousand times ten thousand saints entered the mansion (the new heavenly Jerusalem as the bride of Christ he was preparing).It is finished many rooms with a great view are left .
Click to expand...
Again. Those two witnesses physically die
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#110
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#110
Nehemiah6 said:
All we can do is go by what is revealed in Scripture, and God has certainly NOT provided every detail for our curiosity. Some things remain hidden from us, so there would be no point in speculating about the exact details.
Click to expand...
There’s no speculation. Those two witnesses die. Scripture is clear that after they give their testimony they are killed (something that could not be done until after they give their (heavenly) testimony. Then there bodies are left lying in the streets and people celebrate until terror is struck in everyone who sees them rise up and ascend back to where they were...in heaven


the speculation is assuming what they are like in heaven but scripture is clear that these two witnesses )according to the flesh and according to the scripture) physically die
 
G

gdyloves

Banned
#111
Aug 8, 2017
315
4
0
#111
FlSnookman7 said:
I thought the 2 witnesses/prophets in Revelation are Elijah and Enoch since they never died here on earth.


Hebrews 9:27


“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."





Am I mistaken here?​
Click to expand...
The Two Witnesses
Isn't it the 1st and 2nd Testament
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#112
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,530
113
78
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#112
gdyloves said:
The Two Witnesses
Isn't it the 1st and 2nd Testament
Click to expand...
Hi everyone,

Wow! we are really getting into familiar spirits: ie: "I thought the 2 witnesses/prophets in Revelation are Elijah and Enoch since they never died here on earth." As FlSnookman7 posted.

Nobody comes back from the dead. Elijah, Enoch, Moses all died when they were taken up. It did not say they were taken to heaven. Go back and reread each instance. God was very careful to not say where they were taken.

And yes, gdyloves, the witnesses are not the Old and New Testaments. They are two people that God will use as prophets to reprove the world.

Sheeesh, all this familiar spirit nonsense is beginning to get to me.

Yours,

Deade :cool:
 
Last edited:
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#113
Jul 18, 2017
24,637
13,038
113
#113
Deade said:
Nobody comes back from the dead. Elijah, Enoch, Moses all died when they were taken up. It did not say they were taken to heaven. Go back and reread each instance. God was very careful to not say where they were taken.
Click to expand...
All this denial of the saints being in Heaven gets to me also. As a matter of fact, the translation of Elijah clearly shows that He was translated to Heaven, and so does the translation of Enoch.

And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. (2 Kings 2:1)

Did you notice "into Heaven"? So are you prepared to retract your false ideas and tell us that you believe that Elijah did go up to Heaven?

As to Enoch, if "God TOOK HIM" (Gen 5:24) and God is in Heaven, where do you think He took him? Unbelievable that anyone would imagine that Enoch did not go directly to Heaven!

We live in a time when false ideas abound, and this is evident in multiple threads right here on CC.
 
Last edited:
A

abcdef

Senior Member
#114
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#114
miknik5 said:
There’s no speculation. Those two witnesses die. Scripture is clear that after they give their testimony they are killed (something that could not be done until after they give their (heavenly) testimony. Then there bodies are left lying in the streets and people celebrate until terror is struck in everyone who sees them rise up and ascend back to where they were...in heaven


the speculation is assuming what they are like in heaven but scripture is clear that these two witnesses )according to the flesh and according to the scripture) physically die
Click to expand...
Hi miknik5,

The 2 witness are the word of God, plainly stated in Zech 4:1-14, 3, 6, 14. The OT scriptures, the Law and the prophets.

But who is the flesh, of the Law and the Prophets except Israel?

Right now, the 2 witnesses are restored to Jerusalem.

Right now, they are witnesses that the promises made to the fathers are true.

Right now, the 7th trumpet, is about to sound. When Jerusalem falls, the witnesses Israel will be killed, after 3 1/2 days, the witnesses will .....
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#115
Jul 31, 2013
36,726
13,151
113
#115
miknik5 said:
Revelation 11 clearly states that after they give their testimony the beast kills them

they are literally dead
Click to expand...

"if you can't understand earthly things, how will you understand if I tell you of heavenly things... "

comes to mind :rolleyes:

yes, miknik, i agree. the text is pretty clearly talking about two literal people who are literally killed and literally resurrected 3 days later. there is certainly metaphor here, but it's pretty hard to 'spiritualize' the whole passage without glaring inconsistency.
 
G

gdyloves

Banned
#116
Aug 8, 2017
315
4
0
#116
Deade said:
Hi everyone,

Wow! we are really getting into familiar spirits: ie: "I thought the 2 witnesses/prophets in Revelation are Elijah and Enoch since they never died here on earth." As FlSnookman7 posted.

Nobody comes back from the dead. Elijah, Enoch, Moses all died when they were taken up. It did not say they were taken to heaven. Go back and reread each instance. God was very careful to not say where they were taken.

And yes, gdyloves, the witnesses are not the Old and New Testaments. They are two people that God will use as prophets to reprove the world.

Sheeesh, all this familiar spirit nonsense is beginning to get to me.

Yours,

Deade :cool:
Click to expand...
you don't have to participate in the thread..
 
G

gdyloves

Banned
#117
Aug 8, 2017
315
4
0
#117
definition of Witness:
*evidence; proof
*attestation of a fact or event
*something serving as evidence or proof
*give or serve as evidence of; testify to

Why do we read the Bible?
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#118
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
588
113
#118
abcdef said:
Hi miknik5,

The 2 witness are the word of God, plainly stated in Zech 4:1-14, 3, 6, 14. The OT scriptures, the Law and the prophets.

But who is the flesh, of the Law and the Prophets except Israel?

Right now, the 2 witnesses are restored to Jerusalem.

Right now, they are witnesses that the promises made to the fathers are true.

Right now, the 7th trumpet, is about to sound. When Jerusalem falls, the witnesses Israel will be killed, after 3 1/2 days, the witnesses will .....
Click to expand...
theres only one testimony and the witnesses testify to that one testimony

And I don’t believe physical earthly Israel holds to that testimony ....

yet
 
S

Speak2Me

Banned
#119
Sep 14, 2017
900
23
0
#119
How is it that there seems to be some "formula" for determining that it has to be two people out of the OT to be God's witnesses?

There is no scripture whatsoever to prove that.

These two witnesses prophesy to Israel, right?

What about the possibility of 2 Jews being called by God like any other christian?

For all we know, they could be the first 2 of the 144,000 chosen by God to be saved. You know, somebody who already lives there. God could give these abilities to any of His servants.

This just goes to show how traditionally messed up we can be about something we "think" is in the Bible.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#120
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#120
preston39 said:
E....,

You may convince me if you can explain...... while addressing His churches..... He said to the church of Philadelphia.......I will keep you from the hour that shall come upon all the earth...? et al.

What is meant by that statement?
Click to expand...
Look the word keep up in Greek.....it means to protect or guard from loss or harm.....not remove.....and what about the other 6 churches....no such thing as a split ingathering!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.