Who are the two witnesses/prophets in Revelation?
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Not you personally but people who think that at the Rapture Christ actually comes to the earth.
Not "proof" but a part of the process at the Resurrection/Rapture. So the saints who died and are now in Heaven will receive their glorified resurrection bodies FIRST, following which the saints who are alive at that time will be transformed (body, soul, and spirit) so that they can enter Heaven in their glorified bodies along with the dead in Christ.
The "proof" that the Rapture is before the Tribulation is three-fold (1) it is always spoken of as being imminent, (2) it is never tied into any Tribulation period, and (3) the saints must be in Heaven during the Tribulation so that when Christ returns AFTER the Great Tribulation they accompany Him.
We are not told what the reaction of the unsaved will be to the Resurrection/Rapture.
"After" is simply relative. Since the entire event will be in a flash (in the twinkling of an eye) there will be no gap between the resurrection of the deceased saints and the transformation and translation of the living saints. Hope this helps.
Not "proof" but a part of the process at the Resurrection/Rapture. So the saints who died and are now in Heaven will receive their glorified resurrection bodies FIRST, following which the saints who are alive at that time will be transformed (body, soul, and spirit) so that they can enter Heaven in their glorified bodies along with the dead in Christ.
The "proof" that the Rapture is before the Tribulation is three-fold (1) it is always spoken of as being imminent, (2) it is never tied into any Tribulation period, and (3) the saints must be in Heaven during the Tribulation so that when Christ returns AFTER the Great Tribulation they accompany Him.
We are not told what the reaction of the unsaved will be to the Resurrection/Rapture.
"After" is simply relative. Since the entire event will be in a flash (in the twinkling of an eye) there will be no gap between the resurrection of the deceased saints and the transformation and translation of the living saints. Hope this helps.
I really can’t stand auto correct
the male child was caught up to HIS Throne before the foundation of the world because HE came forth down from heaven in the pattern of man but SPIRIT first then flesh so as to make what was flesh first spirit by HIS life-giving quickening SPIRIT
We must be born shsin
JESUS was born into the world enfleshed but was always in the world
the male child was caught up to HIS Throne before the foundation of the world because HE came forth down from heaven in the pattern of man but SPIRIT first then flesh so as to make what was flesh first spirit by HIS life-giving quickening SPIRIT
We must be born shsin
JESUS was born into the world enfleshed but was always in the world
Greetings Miknik5,
The events of the woman, the male child that she gives birth to and the dragon, are all future events, not past.
Many identify the "Male Child" as representing Jesus, which is just a knee-jerk reaction, woman = Israel and therefore Male Child =Jesus, etc.
The identity of the woman clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelves stars, is revealed in Genesis 37:9-10. Here Joseph tells his father and brothers that he had another dream where the sun, moon and eleven stars came and bowed down to him. His Father Jacob then gives us the meaning of the symbolism of the sun, moon and stars when he says, "will you mother, and I and your brothers truly come and bow down and worship you?"
sun = Jacob
moon = wife/wives
twelves stars = Jacobs son's, the twelve tribes.
Therefore, the woman clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars represents the nation Israel as a whole. The woman gives birth (future event) to a male child, which is a collective name representing the 144,000 who come out of unbelieving Israel (gives birth to) as the first fruits to God, those of Israel who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah.
Furthermore, upon closer inspection, Jesus does not fit the criteria of the male child. For the dragon/Satan is waiting to devour/kill the woman's child the moment it is born. But he is snatched up to God and His throne before the dragon can devour him. Jesus on the other hand was not caught up to God and his throne before the dragon could devour/kill him, but was crucified, resurrected and ascended to God's right hand. The male child will be caught up pretty much the same way as the living church, when they are changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
The events of the woman, the male child that she gives birth to and the dragon, are all future events, not past.
Many identify the "Male Child" as representing Jesus, which is just a knee-jerk reaction, woman = Israel and therefore Male Child =Jesus, etc.
The identity of the woman clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelves stars, is revealed in Genesis 37:9-10. Here Joseph tells his father and brothers that he had another dream where the sun, moon and eleven stars came and bowed down to him. His Father Jacob then gives us the meaning of the symbolism of the sun, moon and stars when he says, "will you mother, and I and your brothers truly come and bow down and worship you?"
sun = Jacob
moon = wife/wives
twelves stars = Jacobs son's, the twelve tribes.
Therefore, the woman clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars represents the nation Israel as a whole. The woman gives birth (future event) to a male child, which is a collective name representing the 144,000 who come out of unbelieving Israel (gives birth to) as the first fruits to God, those of Israel who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah.
Furthermore, upon closer inspection, Jesus does not fit the criteria of the male child. For the dragon/Satan is waiting to devour/kill the woman's child the moment it is born. But he is snatched up to God and His throne before the dragon can devour him. Jesus on the other hand was not caught up to God and his throne before the dragon could devour/kill him, but was crucified, resurrected and ascended to God's right hand. The male child will be caught up pretty much the same way as the living church, when they are changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
E
You correctly said that the Saints who have died and are now in Heaven will receive their glorified bodies first, followed by the Saints who are alive will be changed. Paul states this clearly.
Is this not what happens when Jesus returns after the tribulation? Those He brings with Him at His coming are those Saints that have died before while those who are changed at His coming those who have endured the great tribulation, those that are referred to as the "tribulation Saints"?
I see no evidence, no Scripture that states that the "rapture" is imminent. What I see is Scriptures that states there will be signs, things must first come to pass.
It seems you are basing your belief more on assumption that Scripture.
I just can not see a pre-trib "rapture of the church" in the Scripture.
Is this not what happens when Jesus returns after the tribulation? Those He brings with Him at His coming are those Saints that have died before while those who are changed at His coming those who have endured the great tribulation, those that are referred to as the "tribulation Saints"?
I see no evidence, no Scripture that states that the "rapture" is imminent. What I see is Scriptures that states there will be signs, things must first come to pass.
It seems you are basing your belief more on assumption that Scripture.
I just can not see a pre-trib "rapture of the church" in the Scripture.
Hello Ellsworth,
The church is specific group that began with the Lord who said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." Currently the church is still in the process of being built. Once the church is completed, then the Lord will appear in the atmosphere and the bodies of the dead in Christ will rise with the living believers being changed and caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. This ends the church period.
Once the church has been gathered, those mentioned in Revelation from chapter 4 onward are referred to as "Hagios" translated as "Saints" and are never referred to as the church. People argue that the words "church and 'Saints" are used interchangeably throughout the NT, which is true. It is the separation of these two designations in Revelation that demonstrates a distinction being made, i.e. the saints mentioned from chapter 5:8 onward are the church.
The word "Ekklesia" translated "church" is used only within chapters 1 thru 3. At the same time, the word hagios/Saints does not appear within those same chapters. Likewise, from chapters 4 onward, the opposite is true in that, only the word Hagios/Saints is used and the word Ekklesia/Church is never used again. This is not a coincidence, but is a deeper teaching from the word of God demonstrating that the church is no longer on the earth after chapter 4, with Rev.4:1 in fact representing the gathering of the church. The "what must take place after this" is what takes place after the "what is now" i.e. what takes place after the church period.
The groups that will be here on the earth during that time will be Gentile's who become believers in Christ after the church has been gathered and who are those who will be persecuted with many being killed by order of the beast, the 144,000 who will come out of unbelieving Israel and who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah and the woman of Rev.12, the unbelieving nation of Israel. None of which are apart of the church, as the church will have come to its completion at the time of its gathering.
The church is specific group that began with the Lord who said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." Currently the church is still in the process of being built. Once the church is completed, then the Lord will appear in the atmosphere and the bodies of the dead in Christ will rise with the living believers being changed and caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. This ends the church period.
Once the church has been gathered, those mentioned in Revelation from chapter 4 onward are referred to as "Hagios" translated as "Saints" and are never referred to as the church. People argue that the words "church and 'Saints" are used interchangeably throughout the NT, which is true. It is the separation of these two designations in Revelation that demonstrates a distinction being made, i.e. the saints mentioned from chapter 5:8 onward are the church.
The word "Ekklesia" translated "church" is used only within chapters 1 thru 3. At the same time, the word hagios/Saints does not appear within those same chapters. Likewise, from chapters 4 onward, the opposite is true in that, only the word Hagios/Saints is used and the word Ekklesia/Church is never used again. This is not a coincidence, but is a deeper teaching from the word of God demonstrating that the church is no longer on the earth after chapter 4, with Rev.4:1 in fact representing the gathering of the church. The "what must take place after this" is what takes place after the "what is now" i.e. what takes place after the church period.
The groups that will be here on the earth during that time will be Gentile's who become believers in Christ after the church has been gathered and who are those who will be persecuted with many being killed by order of the beast, the 144,000 who will come out of unbelieving Israel and who will recognize Jesus as their Messiah and the woman of Rev.12, the unbelieving nation of Israel. None of which are apart of the church, as the church will have come to its completion at the time of its gathering.
When Jesus said, "I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning" he was referring to his original fall. But, as we can determine from scriptures like Job and other NT scriptures, we see that Satan and his angels still have access to heaven, which will come an end when that war in heaven takes place as described in Rev.12, where at which time Satan and his angels will be cast out and restricted to the earth during that last 3 1/2 years. When Jesus returns at the end of that 3 1/2 years, the beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire and Satan will be thrown into and sealed in the Abyss during the Lord's thousand year reign.
Everything from Rev.4 onward, which is referred to as the "what must take place later," are future events leading up to Christ's return to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.
Everything from Rev.4 onward, which is referred to as the "what must take place later," are future events leading up to Christ's return to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.
My Friend and Brother, we appear to be at a impasse ?????
The Raptured Church/Body of Christ is in Heaven prior to all the other Saints getting there. We see in Rev. 6:11 the Martyred Saints just getting there since they still at the beginning of the verse do not have White Clothing/Robes.
They also do not know the time period in which Jesus will avenge them...This, I believe places them somewhere in the Gap between the Rapture event and the beginning of Daniel's 70th week. (This Gap is the time, I believe is necessary for the Anti-Christ we see in Rev. 6:1 to gain power around the world.)
Jesus also tells hem that they will have to wait a little while for their "FELLOWSERVANTS" and their "BRETHREN". It appears here these are also two more different groups of Saints.
Also, the 24 Elders (Body of Christ) have Harps. These Martyrs have nothing in their Hands. Saints later on have Palm leaves, etc. further separating them from one another.
Of course we have the 144,000 who are finally Raptured (redeemed) from the earth (Yes they are alive) and they are a separate group.
The two Witnesses have a ministry that also brings in Saints and Rev 14:6...we see another (different type of Angel) that " having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth. I believe this is the Gospel for the Millennium given ahead of time much like the Gospel of Grace.
We can see the different Saints in Heaven in Rev 20:4. Note the ones on the Thrones are the Raptured Church (Body of Christ). The Church (body of Christ) are like Melchizedek and Jesus....All are Kings and Priest.
There is a fair bit of confusion regarding this matter. The first thing to understand is that there are three heavens: (1) God's Heaven called "the third heaven", (2) outer space -- the second heaven, and (3) the atmosphere and stratosphere -- the first heaven.
Satan was originally cast out of the third heaven when he and his evil angels rebelled against God shortly after the creation of the universe. But he and these evil angels were allowed to inhabit the 2nd and 1st heavens, thus he is called "the prince of the power of the air". What we see in Revelation 12 is Satan and his evil angels being cast out of the two lower heavens and being sent down to earth. Eventually they all will be cast into the Lake of Fire (prepared for the Devil and his angels).
Satan was originally cast out of the third heaven when he and his evil angels rebelled against God shortly after the creation of the universe. But he and these evil angels were allowed to inhabit the 2nd and 1st heavens, thus he is called "the prince of the power of the air". What we see in Revelation 12 is Satan and his evil angels being cast out of the two lower heavens and being sent down to earth. Eventually they all will be cast into the Lake of Fire (prepared for the Devil and his angels).
They are the Two Who stand before the Lord always.
As for their actual names, no one asked in the past, why start investigating them now. We are not Poirot's and Marple's of the Kingdom, we are but children, but children of the only Father ever.
PS Like all who wait on the Lord I wait to be knowledgeable about this in His time. Then we will all know.
All blessings in Jesus Christ..........j
As for their actual names, no one asked in the past, why start investigating them now. We are not Poirot's and Marple's of the Kingdom, we are but children, but children of the only Father ever.
PS Like all who wait on the Lord I wait to be knowledgeable about this in His time. Then we will all know.
All blessings in Jesus Christ..........j
E
Please note that Jesus addressed each of the seven churches. SEVEN DIFFERENT LOCAL CONGREGATIONS.
Each had different characteristics that he addressed.
I am sure He kept His promise to that church. They all ceased to exist shortly after this.
Why does one try to make this represented of the whole body of believers or what some refer to as "The Church"?
After Jesus addressed these seven local churches, He then called John up into Heaven (Rev. 4:1) to reveal to him what was to come.
Please do not try to make the Scripture say one thing when it clearly does not.
Each had different characteristics that he addressed.
I am sure He kept His promise to that church. They all ceased to exist shortly after this.
Why does one try to make this represented of the whole body of believers or what some refer to as "The Church"?
After Jesus addressed these seven local churches, He then called John up into Heaven (Rev. 4:1) to reveal to him what was to come.
Please do not try to make the Scripture say one thing when it clearly does not.
WOW...I feel like I am sitting on one of NASA's spaceships///lol???/ While Stan and His Angels that follow him are fallen from the Grace of God.. Only in Revelation do we see them thrown out of HEaven , down to earth where they are given permission to Kill and this they do.........OUTER_SPACE------give me a break!
Well, at least you have changed your mind about John being Heaven.......Read the Letters again. They talk to each of us..."He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches", Why the word CHurches in each of those letters.......
Oh well we have been through this before and I am not going through it again. Waste of God given breath.