Healing in the Atonement?

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Nov 12, 2015
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"According to your Faith so be it to you." If you follow Jesus with all your heart, "Whatever you ask for believing that you receive you shall have." Have not looked at responses except the last few, but according to these verses everyone should be correct, concerning what they believe. These words also apply to most debates here, that "You shall have what we say."
Hmm...I guess it depends on what you ask for...
When I asked to be made more like my Savior, I got what I asked for, but there were some unpleasant things to my flesh in order to grow me in some virtues like patience, longsuffering, etc. He brought some difficult situations to me but they are almost like nothing for the good and peace and unruffledness He brought to me through them.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Hmm...I guess it depends on what you ask for...
When I asked to be made more like my Savior, I got what I asked for, but there were some unpleasant things to my flesh in order to grow me in some virtues like patience, longsuffering, etc. He brought some difficult situations to me but they are almost like nothing for the good and peace and unruffledness He brought to me through them.
You are trying to change your old nature. Go back to the thread not by works. You aren't yet there.
 
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Yes, I confess what I believe, as it is written.
The fact is, Jesus wasn't able to do many mighty works in His hometown because of their unbelief.
Jesus both wanted to heal the people of His hometown, and was able to do so, but because they couldn't believe, He was not able to do many mighty works.
That's all I was getting at.
You're not talking to unbelievers here though.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

God’s address to the faithful of Judah, begun at Is 52:1 and continuing throughout chapter 52, resumes in chapter 54 and continues through chapter 55. However, I believe that since this chapter predicts the rejection of the Messiah, it is likely addressed to the people of Judah, in general.
Understanding that the arm of the LORD is a title of Jesus (Yeshua), we see that this verse predicts rejection of Jesus’ (Yeshua’s) message by the people to whom He was sent.

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

he Jesus (Yeshua)
before him before the LORD (YHVH) from verse 1.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of anguish, and acquainted with calamity: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

anguish (מַכְאֹב֖וֺת) means anguish. calamity (חֹלִי) means calamity.

This verse emphasizes the prediction of rejection from verse 1.


4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.4Surely he hath borne our calamities, and carried our anguish: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

calamities, anguish See note at .
Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: Jesus (Yeshua) is to be punished for our sins and receive our anguish (extreme pain) and our calamities (destruction in hell).
yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
we Isaiah, identifying himself and his nation with the majority of first century Jewish people might well include us before we were saved.
esteem in 17th Century English meant considered, as with our word ‘estimate’.
Before people understand the truth, they tend to believe that Jesus (Yeshua) got what was coming to Him.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our reconciliation was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

our reconciliation ( שָׁלוֺמֵ֙נוּ֙) In English, the word ‘peace’ has no plural. In Hebrew, the plural of ( שָׁל֑וֺם) peace is (שָׁלֹמִם) reconciliation. Our peace, which does not appear in the Old Testament, would be written ( שָׁלֹמְנוּ) but the plural ( שָׁלֹמִינוּ) doesn’t work in Hebrew orthography; and it becomes ( שָׁלוֺמֵ֙נוּ֙ ). [מִ֙ים] assimilates to מֵ֙ which looks singular but is in fact plural: our reconciliation.

אֱלֹהִים, God, assimilates to אֱלֹהֵ֗ינוּ, our God, very similarly except that the yod is retained as part of the root] I believe that this occurs when a plural form is treated as a singular noun.
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities:
This supports my changes in the previous verse.
the chastisement of our reconciliation was upon him Accepting His payment for our sins as establishing His Lordship (His purchase of us for Himself) reconciles us with God; and repairs the damage caused by Adam and Eve’s sin.


6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way


7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

he openeth not his mouth He makes no defense to escape punishment.


8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
8 [By death,] He was taken from oppression and by judgment: he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken, and who shall declare his generation?.

Changes proposed as an alternate reading (not as a correction).


9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death
Because He was crucified with two thieves, by law, He should have been denied proper burial; but Joseph of Arimathaea interceded, with Pilate, and provided his own tomb for Jesus’ (Yeshua’s) burial
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin When you accept His death as an offering for your sin;
he shall see his seed You become a child of God, by adoption, hence His offspring.
he shall prolong his days He will be resurrected, and live forever.
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He will accomplish all He sets out to do.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He shall see of the travail of his soul He shall see His life’s work.
by his knowledge by knowing Him

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; I will exalt and glorify Him
Just one question Marc. Did Jesus reverse the curse?
 
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Has God ever said no EG? Sounds a bit strange when the scriptures say yes, and amen. Do you need me to post it?
He has said no to me about a healing. I have an autoimmune disease in which my body somehow determined that my cartilage was a danger to me and so my own body actually attacks my cartilage and...eats it I guess you would say. That's how the doctors explained it anyway. He has said no and I know He works everything to my good so I am okay with the no. :)
 
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Going off on different tangents and rabbit trails from the original topic on a thread is a common occurrence around here. :)
Sometimes we just have to re post many times to get back the topic. How are you this evening Stonesoffire? Good to see you.
Its not a rabbit trail. Some of us have received a : my grace is sufficient for you rather than a certain healing of something we prayed for. You deny that this is possible and say we don't believe or trust our Lord and so we receive no healing. So we care for those who might get their trust shipwrecked by the teaching and we speak to them, whoever they may be who come in here.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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Yes, I confess what I believe, as it is written.
The fact is, Jesus wasn't able to do many mighty works in His hometown because of their unbelief.
Jesus both wanted to heal the people of His hometown, and was able to do so, but because they couldn't believe, He was not able to do many mighty works.
That's all I was getting at.
You do get that they did not believe that Jesus was the Christ, right. That was their unbelief...Those folks in Jesus's hometown wasn't asking for prayer or help from him because they did not believe in him.

I'm talking about a true believer in God coming before you and the elders of your church asking for prayer. So in your opinion, what would cause them not to get healed?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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I see the atonement and communion connected. Blood. Complete through life, eternal life through His blood sacrifice.

To not discern what should be taking place because of LIFE in the blood of Jesus, what are the results?

1 Corinthians 11:30 That's why so many of you are weak and sick and a considerable number are dying.
Is the point you are trying to make that if anyone is sick or dies, this verse is proof that they have eaten unworthily at His table?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Really stunned, what a complete ridiculous statement. Go through the halls of the cancer wards and tell them how blessed they are.
It is only ridiculous to you because you have not experienced learning the obedience of trust through the things you have suffered.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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He couldnt heal those in a certain area because of their unbelief. Please read the scriptures more carefully.
Once again, you aren't talking to unbelievers. You are talking to men and women who walk in the Spirit and who learn the obedience of trust from the things they suffer.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Glad you had a great day! We had a lot of rain/ my back yard is fa pond. My driveway is a pond..lol. But God is great, even when things are not sunny and pleasant..
You know EG, I can remember the first time I asked Jesus for something and it happened right then.

I was probably about three or four. It had rained so hard, and there was huge puddles of water everywhere. I just wanted to play. So I said, Jesus will you stop the rain, I want to go outside. And it stopped, and the sun came out. Will never forget this, for I thought...He heard me!

God is great all the time, yes even when it rains. But it's not Him that sends a destructive storm that would destroy your home. Or is it in your thinking EG?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Once again, you aren't talking to unbelievers. You are talking to men and women who walk in the Spirit and who learn the obedience of trust from the things they suffer.
I know that the scripture says Jesus learned obedience by the things He suffered. Does it say His body too?

Persecution for our faith, yes. Please post the scripture that says we will learn obedience this way too.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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You are trying to change your old nature. Go back to the thread not by works. You aren't yet there.
I don't try to change my old nature. Been there. Doesn't work.
I pick up my cross and follow not to change my old nature, but to crucify it.

You remember the story of the farmer during the great depression. A man came to him asking for food for his family. He said, wait here and I'll go get you a ham.

He went into the smokehouse and got the biggest one. As he neared the door he thought, no I will give him one of the smaller ones.

Then he caught himself and said, no, he will have the biggest ham and if you don't shut up, I promise you, I'll give him ALL of them!
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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He couldnt heal those in a certain area because of their unbelief. Please read the scriptures more carefully.
Read it and posted about it...Total difference in a child of God and a person who does not even believe in him that he is the Christ...Just saying, people might want to read it with a little more understanding.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Let me tell you all about mustard seed faith. The mustard seed grows upward to a bush like plant but the amazing fact of this plant is that it grows down deep and has roots outspread to the depth of up to 23 feet.

Its impossible to stamp the plant out.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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You know EG, I can remember the first time I asked Jesus for something and it happened right then.

I was probably about three or four. It had rained so hard, and there was huge puddles of water everywhere. I just wanted to play. So I said, Jesus will you stop the rain, I want to go outside. And it stopped, and the sun came out. Will never forget this, for I thought...He heard me!

God is great all the time, yes even when it rains. But it's not Him that sends a destructive storm that would destroy your home. Or is it in your thinking EG?
God does not control the weather? Many, many verses dispute that. Even in Job, Satan had to get permission to bring the whirlwind that flattened the houses. Does Satan now bring the rain from its storehouses and tell the clouds where to go and God just has to bear it?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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I know that the scripture says Jesus learned obedience by the things He suffered. Does it say His body too?

Persecution for our faith, yes. Please post the scripture that says we will learn obedience this way too.
I have posted the scripture but you don't understand it.