Healing in the Atonement?

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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#281
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#281
Stunnedbygrace said:
All creation groans as in childbirth eagerly awaiting the future day when God will reveal who His children actually are. All of creation was subjected to Gods curse and waits eagerly with us to be freed from death and decay. We look forward to the day our bodies will be freed from sin and suffering. And we know if we want to share in His glory we must also share in His sufferings. That's all in romans 8 - my paraphrase because I don't have my bible handy.
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Who His children actually are?


All who receive His sacrificial death on the Cross by faith are His. Those who receive the benefits of their salvation are kingdom children. There are degrees of faith both here and in heaven. Not one greater than another, as in jealousy but according to the work of ones call.

I realize not all will receive these words. I have no problem with this. But, there are those here who know they are being called higher for a lack of a better word.

I am posting only for these.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#283
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#283
stonesoffire said:
Who His children actually are?


All who receive His sacrificial death on the Cross by faith are His. Those who receive the benefits of their salvation are kingdom children. There are degrees of faith both here and in heaven. Not one greater than another, as in jealousy but according to the work of ones call.

I realize not all will receive these words. I have no problem with this. But, there are those here who know they are being called higher for a lack of a better word.

I am posting only for these.
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Yes, who His children actually are. That's what the verse says. :)
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#290
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
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#290
Stunnedbygrace said:
Okay. Hang on.
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[SUP]2 [/SUP]Therefore, dear brothers and sisters,[SUP][e][/SUP] you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature,[SUP][f][/SUP] you will live. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children[SUP][g][/SUP] of God.

But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will reveal to us later. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope, [SUP]21 [/SUP]the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children,[SUP][j][/SUP] including the new bodies he has promised us. [SUP]24 [/SUP]We were given this hope when we were saved. (If we already have something, we don’t need to hope[SUP][k][/SUP] for it. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But if we look forward to something we don’t yet have, we must wait patiently and confidently.)


These are the sections and verses I was paraphrasing. I copied and posted them. Had to get to my big computer to do so - sorry it took me a few minutes.​
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#291
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#291
Stunnedbygrace said:
Nope. Its not pleasing to my ears or my flesh to read that I must share in His sufferings if I want to share in His glory. But I don't deny it.
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Neither do I deny that we will suffer just because we choose light and come out of darkness. But, diseases are not part of the sufferings for Jesus that we have to go through.

The problem is always "hath God said"?

None of you know what my children and I have gone through. I don't speak much of those days because I don't glory in them. I do however, glory in resurrection life. My hope is found here, as I put my faith in being one with God through His working in me.

Its life in the eternal blood of Jesus. There's no death in His blood. Only life. His blood has bought life for the whole of man.

He bought this for all mankind, not just a few. Who will hear?
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#292
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#292
stonesoffire said:
Neither do I deny that we will suffer just because we choose light and come out of darkness. But, diseases are not part of the sufferings for Jesus that we have to go through.

The problem is always "hath God said"?

None of you know what my children and I have gone through. I don't speak much of those days because I don't glory in them. I do however, glory in resurrection life. My hope is found here, as I put my faith in being one with God through His working in me.

Its life in the eternal blood of Jesus. There's no death in His blood. Only life. His blood has bought life for the whole of man.

He bought this for all mankind, not just a few. Who will hear?
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Yes, that's more wise of a way to put it. This has been the whole crux of the matter: Does God heal everyone who trusts Him of all sickness and disease, 100% of the time? Does not being healed but instead being told, my grace is sufficient for you, mean one does not have enough trust in 100% of the cases, 100% of the time?
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#293
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#293
Stunnedbygrace said:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Therefore, dear brothers and sisters,[SUP][e][/SUP] you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature,[SUP][f][/SUP] you will live.[SUP]14 [/SUP]For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children[SUP][g][/SUP] of God.

But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will reveal to us later.[SUP]19 [/SUP]For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are.[SUP]20 [/SUP]Against its will, all creation was subjected to God’s curse. But with eager hope,[SUP]21 [/SUP]the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God’s children in glorious freedom from death and decay.[SUP]22 [/SUP]For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children,[SUP][j][/SUP] including the new bodies he has promised us.[SUP]24 [/SUP]We were given this hope when we were saved. (If we already have something, we don’t need to hope[SUP][k][/SUP] for it.[SUP]25 [/SUP]But if we look forward to something we don’t yet have, we must wait patiently and confidently.)


These are the sections and verses I was paraphrasing. I copied and posted them. Had to get to my big computer to do so - sorry it took me a few minutes.​
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What version is this? Sounds like a paraphrase not a translation.

if this version should be true than only those who are overcomers are children of God.

Which is what I am talking about stunned. The overcoming life.
 
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S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#294
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#294
stonesoffire said:
Neither do I deny that we will suffer just because we choose light and come out of darkness. But, diseases are not part of the sufferings for Jesus that we have to go through.

The problem is always "hath God said"?

None of you know what my children and I have gone through. I don't speak much of those days because I don't glory in them. I do however, glory in resurrection life. My hope is found here, as I put my faith in being one with God through His working in me.

Its life in the eternal blood of Jesus. There's no death in His blood. Only life. His blood has bought life for the whole of man.

He bought this for all mankind, not just a few. Who will hear?
Click to expand...
Diseases most certainly ARE part of decay and as the verse in Romans says, we, and all of creation, is still subject to that decay.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#296
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#296
stonesoffire said:
What version is this? Sounds like a paraphrase not a translation.
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Its NLT.
Here are some more translations:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]
For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.​
NKJV

[SUP]19 [/SUP]
Everything that has been made in the world is waiting for the day when God will make His sons known. ​
NLV

[SUP]19 [/SUP]
For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.​
ESV

[SUP]19 [/SUP]
For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.​
NIV
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#297
#297
stonesoffire said:
Just one question Marc. Did Jesus reverse the curse?
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do people still get sick and die?

Answer this and you will answer your question.

The curse of death (pain) is removed, but people still die.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#299
#299
stonesoffire said:
You know EG, I can remember the first time I asked Jesus for something and it happened right then.

I was probably about three or four. It had rained so hard, and there was huge puddles of water everywhere. I just wanted to play. So I said, Jesus will you stop the rain, I want to go outside. And it stopped, and the sun came out. Will never forget this, for I thought...He heard me!

God is great all the time, yes even when it rains. But it's not Him that sends a destructive storm that would destroy your home. Or is it in your thinking EG?
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Yet homes are destroyed (many are being destroyed in the Midwest valley in Ohio Kentucky and I am sure other states (And these are believers homes as well as nonbelievers)

Of course God did nto do it. But the point is, He did not prevent it either, No much how faith we had.

I believe that is the point of the conversations we have been having in a few threads these past few days.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#300
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
113
#300
eternally-gratefull said:
do people still get sick and die?

Answer this and you will answer your question.

The curse of death (pain) is removed, but people still die.
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The curse of sin is death. But we still die in our temporary body. But we wont face eternal death. The good news is eternal life but the body still has to die because of sin. It's all extremely temporary. Although amidst the aches and pains of body and sicknesses, it sometimes doesn't feel temporary, does it?
 
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