Healing in the Atonement?
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Well, in my case, it's because I had very heavy periods, and alot of blood clots. My periods literally brought my life to a stand still. I couldn't go out, couldn't move, had to throw many many pairs of bloodied up clothes, etc... I missed many family get togethers, couldn't even go to my nephew's high school graduation because I was in the hospital having my hysterectomy.
Ever had sciatica? WORST AGONIZING PAIN EVER. Indescribable pain. I can't even imagine still having my heavy periods on top of having sciatica, AND taking care of Tequila, who at the time was terminally ill and puking and pooping everywhere.. This house would've been bloody from one end to another. You bet your buns I give thanks to God for giving me cancer, and subsequently taking away my periods... lol
As to why anyone else gives thanks, I can't speak for them. But why don't you ask Joidevivre, who currently is going through a second battle with cancer? Or Angela53510, who has a myriad of health problems?
Ever had sciatica? WORST AGONIZING PAIN EVER. Indescribable pain. I can't even imagine still having my heavy periods on top of having sciatica, AND taking care of Tequila, who at the time was terminally ill and puking and pooping everywhere.. This house would've been bloody from one end to another. You bet your buns I give thanks to God for giving me cancer, and subsequently taking away my periods... lol
As to why anyone else gives thanks, I can't speak for them. But why don't you ask Joidevivre, who currently is going through a second battle with cancer? Or Angela53510, who has a myriad of health problems?
A dear friend of mine died five years ago.
Three years before he died him and his wife adopted a child. They could not conceive.
Within a year of that he was diagnosed with a inoperable brain tumor.
He sent weekly updates via e-mail.
I prayed with him and over him many times as did others.
He died at the age of 40, leaving a wife and an adopted child.
During those years he never focused on himself but others.
Always encouraged those he talked to, even prayed over those who were praying for him and in his e-mails he sent out keeping us informed he ended with "Go with God, keep walking and keep praising"
It breaks my heart that God does not heal all the time.
For my dear friend at such a young age and having adopted a child it broke my heart.
Why did God not heal him?
I have no idea.
Only God does.
But it will never stop me praying for healing.
Three years before he died him and his wife adopted a child. They could not conceive.
Within a year of that he was diagnosed with a inoperable brain tumor.
He sent weekly updates via e-mail.
I prayed with him and over him many times as did others.
He died at the age of 40, leaving a wife and an adopted child.
During those years he never focused on himself but others.
Always encouraged those he talked to, even prayed over those who were praying for him and in his e-mails he sent out keeping us informed he ended with "Go with God, keep walking and keep praising"
It breaks my heart that God does not heal all the time.
For my dear friend at such a young age and having adopted a child it broke my heart.
Why did God not heal him?
I have no idea.
Only God does.
But it will never stop me praying for healing.
I already have read Angela's posts. And I didnt know about Joi. Will be praying.
I just asked you because you claimed that cancer was a blessing. And I wanted to know why.
ok. I accept what you testify to. Because of this one reason blue, or maybe two....for one thing, I care greatly for you. The second....I've stated twice now, and repeat.
I judge no one. And I know from scripture that Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit does not judge His own. Jesus came to save us, to give us life, abundantly. Life!
How I see Him, is how I serve Him. So in speaking my faith here....which of you has judged me?
How you all see Him, is how you all will serve Him too.
Selah
EG, I don't think you have judged.
But, in this matter, we are divided.
Joanie, Ben, know1 are being judged Also.
Joanie the most. And this is wrong.
I just asked you because you claimed that cancer was a blessing. And I wanted to know why.
ok. I accept what you testify to. Because of this one reason blue, or maybe two....for one thing, I care greatly for you. The second....I've stated twice now, and repeat.
I judge no one. And I know from scripture that Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit does not judge His own. Jesus came to save us, to give us life, abundantly. Life!
How I see Him, is how I serve Him. So in speaking my faith here....which of you has judged me?
How you all see Him, is how you all will serve Him too.
Selah
EG, I don't think you have judged.
But, in this matter, we are divided.
Joanie, Ben, know1 are being judged Also.
Joanie the most. And this is wrong.
I've had epileptic seizures since age 5 or 6. Depression since age 8. My first attempt was around that age, in the middle of the night with my mom's sewing shears. Obviously I chickened out..lol.. Got raped at 23, started having back problems at age 27, got uterine cancer at age 40, slipped on ice and got a herniated disk/sciatica in my left leg for 5 months. And I STILL have after effects from that, even 4 years later...
I am battered, I am bruised, and I am cracked. I'm a hot mess but somehow, I still work.. LOL
And that is only by the grace of God, and HIS strength. Cuz goodness knows, I'm a puny, weak wimp... lol
I am battered, I am bruised, and I am cracked. I'm a hot mess but somehow, I still work.. LOL
And that is only by the grace of God, and HIS strength. Cuz goodness knows, I'm a puny, weak wimp... lol
Dear know1, thank you for Reply.
To 1: i have not said, that you use positiv thinking, but proclaimers of this teaching like f.e. Joel Osteen are useing positiv Thinking. Also I known what Faith is, otherwise I would not be Gods Child.
And you should not believe me, but the Word of God. If healing is in the atonement, then for what gave the Holi Spirit the Gift of healing? For what gave the Holy Spirit the advise in James 5, that the meldest should pray over a sick Person?
If healing is in the atonement then there is no Need for James 5 and the Gift of healing.
Further it Wonders me that this teaching is not mentions in any f the letters to the church, but nearly 2000 Year later through charismatic teachers.
This teaching is Faser in the scripture in the Dame Way like the teaching of Jehovas Witness. Ist a man Made teaching!
to 2 It is not my Statement, its the Statement from those who proclaim this teaching. As excuse Why People got not healed.
To 3, See my answer to 1
to 4, See my answer to 1
To 5, I am Not ignorant, I am connected that the Word is teacher in the right Way, so that people are not misleadet to believe a false teaching.
I Hope and pray you will find out what is the truth.
To 1: i have not said, that you use positiv thinking, but proclaimers of this teaching like f.e. Joel Osteen are useing positiv Thinking. Also I known what Faith is, otherwise I would not be Gods Child.
And you should not believe me, but the Word of God. If healing is in the atonement, then for what gave the Holi Spirit the Gift of healing? For what gave the Holy Spirit the advise in James 5, that the meldest should pray over a sick Person?
If healing is in the atonement then there is no Need for James 5 and the Gift of healing.
Further it Wonders me that this teaching is not mentions in any f the letters to the church, but nearly 2000 Year later through charismatic teachers.
This teaching is Faser in the scripture in the Dame Way like the teaching of Jehovas Witness. Ist a man Made teaching!
to 2 It is not my Statement, its the Statement from those who proclaim this teaching. As excuse Why People got not healed.
To 3, See my answer to 1
to 4, See my answer to 1
To 5, I am Not ignorant, I am connected that the Word is teacher in the right Way, so that people are not misleadet to believe a false teaching.
I Hope and pray you will find out what is the truth.
Well, first of all, I never said it was a blessing. I said I give thanks for it. 
In my case, (looking back) it IS a blessing because my periods just took so much out of me. I had zero quality of life during that time. And future events that happened, would've been magnified if I hadn't gotten cancer. It was only after a pap smear, that they found it. I never would've known...
As far as know1, Joanie, you, and Ben, I haven't said anything to or about them at all.
I like Ben, but we disagree, because I believe that God doesn't heal every one, and his view is that those who aren't healed, must not have enough faith.. Healing isn't about how much faith you (general you) do or don't have. It's about God's will and what HE wants you to learn from being healed, or not. What I have learned personally, is wayyyyyy too lengthy to write here.. lol
In my case, (looking back) it IS a blessing because my periods just took so much out of me. I had zero quality of life during that time. And future events that happened, would've been magnified if I hadn't gotten cancer. It was only after a pap smear, that they found it. I never would've known...As far as know1, Joanie, you, and Ben, I haven't said anything to or about them at all.
I like Ben, but we disagree, because I believe that God doesn't heal every one, and his view is that those who aren't healed, must not have enough faith.. Healing isn't about how much faith you (general you) do or don't have. It's about God's will and what HE wants you to learn from being healed, or not. What I have learned personally, is wayyyyyy too lengthy to write here.. lol
I'm sure BLB will correct me and I'm not speaking on her behalf here.
Maybe at the time it did not feel like a blessing. But having gone through it and as a result of God working in it, the result is to be conformed to the image of Jesus.
Healing isn't just physical but also spiritual.
We only have to read the what Corrie ten Boom said when she talked about the forgiveness of sins in a talk she was giving.
Then we find that a person who was present came forward, a guard in the atrocities committed under Hitler in [FONT="]Ravensbruck
The following link is the account
[/FONT]https://soundfaith.com/sermons/41544-forgiveness-corrie-meets-guard[FONT="]
[/FONT]
Maybe at the time it did not feel like a blessing. But having gone through it and as a result of God working in it, the result is to be conformed to the image of Jesus.
Healing isn't just physical but also spiritual.
We only have to read the what Corrie ten Boom said when she talked about the forgiveness of sins in a talk she was giving.
Then we find that a person who was present came forward, a guard in the atrocities committed under Hitler in [FONT="]Ravensbruck
The following link is the account
[/FONT]https://soundfaith.com/sermons/41544-forgiveness-corrie-meets-guard[FONT="]
[/FONT]
As I asked earlier in the thread, does Isaiah 53:4,5 apply to us today? If it does, and the context is physical healing, then physical healing belongs to us. The context is clearly physical healing according to Matthew, so it's really just a matter of whether or not Isaiah 53:4,5 still applies. Those who believe that it's referring to spiritual healing would certainly state that it still applies. You seem to be of the opinion that it no longer does, because it was fulfilled in Jesus' day. Well, if you'll read a few chapters further in Matthew chapter 12 you'll see where he states:
16 Yet He warned them not to make Him known, 17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:
18 “Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen,
My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased!
I will put My Spirit upon Him,
And He will declare justice to the Gentiles.
19 He will not quarrel nor cry out,
Nor will anyone hear His voice in the streets.
20 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench,
Till He sends forth justice to victory;
21 And in His name Gentiles will trust.”
I don't know about you, but I'm a Gentile, and I trust that this still applies even though Matthew says it was fulfilled in Jesus' day. Matthew wasn't saying these things to prove to 21st century believers that the promises are no longer in effect. He was writing to the Jews of the first century to confirm that Jesus was the Messiah. If Isaiah 53:4,5 no longer apply then neither do the rest of Isaiah's prophecies about Jesus and the atonement.
16 Yet He warned them not to make Him known, 17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:
18 “Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen,
My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased!
I will put My Spirit upon Him,
And He will declare justice to the Gentiles.
19 He will not quarrel nor cry out,
Nor will anyone hear His voice in the streets.
20 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench,
Till He sends forth justice to victory;
21 And in His name Gentiles will trust.”
I don't know about you, but I'm a Gentile, and I trust that this still applies even though Matthew says it was fulfilled in Jesus' day. Matthew wasn't saying these things to prove to 21st century believers that the promises are no longer in effect. He was writing to the Jews of the first century to confirm that Jesus was the Messiah. If Isaiah 53:4,5 no longer apply then neither do the rest of Isaiah's prophecies about Jesus and the atonement.
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Ponder this, for but a moment. A person is telling you that they believe God will heal them. That is their faith. Now, this person is believing that God will heal them, and what do you have to say to them? "There is no guarantee or promise that God will heal you." Ouch, talk about being an enemy to their faith! You're robbing them of hope, stealing from them that which they have mustered up. You have become a naysayer, those of who who speak contrary to the faith of others. A stumbling block.
Let the woman, man or child have their faith. Do not rob them of it.
Let the woman, man or child have their faith. Do not rob them of it.
You are a survivor. That alone says something about you. Same as Joni. Same thing with me. Lost all twice...gained all back. That is God. The restorer of the breach.
But, He also heals in every way we have need of. For He supplies all our need according to His riches in heaven. No sickness, no lack of anything in heaven.
I believe He says take what you need.
i think the actual word is glory not heaven. And the glory is His Presence.
Selah.
But, He also heals in every way we have need of. For He supplies all our need according to His riches in heaven. No sickness, no lack of anything in heaven.
I believe He says take what you need.
i think the actual word is glory not heaven. And the glory is His Presence.
Selah.
E
Wow. Yeah this is what we would tell them, As they are praying there is no promise, Instead of praying with them and also praying for healing for them.
I agree, let them have their faith. But if they are not healed. Do not take their faith away from them, by saying they did not have enough faith. Praise God with them, and comfort them, and do not question God, but continue to run the race.
I agree, let them have their faith. But if they are not healed. Do not take their faith away from them, by saying they did not have enough faith. Praise God with them, and comfort them, and do not question God, but continue to run the race.
That is precisely what many on this thread have done EG. The moment you state that God makes no promise of healing or guarantee you have effectively nullified faith. Let me ask you, when you pray for healing on what basis are you seeking it? By the mercy of God? That is a promise in and of itself, for He is merciful to our weaknesses. I just don't understand how people can say that God doesn't offer anything substantially solid to believe for when it comes to healing.
If someone says "I am praying to be healed and I believe God will definitely heal me", the response should be "The Lord will heal if that is His will. But there is no guarantee of physical healing. However, God guarantees the spiritual healing of your soul and spirit, and also that one day you will receive a perfect glorified body, if you are His child. See 1 John 3:1-3".
Ive read Corrie ten booms works Bill. I also read she received the baptism of Holy Spirit and an additional baptism of love in her later years, plus was healed.
i don't deny that all things work together for good for those who love the Lord and are called according to His will. But, there have been accusations thrown at Joanie, and then myself for being false Christians because we believe in placing faith in the Word of God.
i don't deny that all things work together for good for those who love the Lord and are called according to His will. But, there have been accusations thrown at Joanie, and then myself for being false Christians because we believe in placing faith in the Word of God.