Once Saved, Always Saved ... OR Can you Lose your Salvation?
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R
Because I can reject God's power to believe.
I can decide that I do not want to believe anymore.
The Corinthians, the Hebrew church, and the Galatians did.
The power of God is not what fails. Your decision to rely on it can. The Corinthians, the Galatians, and the Hebrew church are all proof of this.
God did not take away your choice to rely on him for the power for YOU to keep believing to be saved.
I can decide that I do not want to believe anymore.
The Corinthians, the Hebrew church, and the Galatians did.
The power of God is not what fails. Your decision to rely on it can. The Corinthians, the Galatians, and the Hebrew church are all proof of this.
God did not take away your choice to rely on him for the power for YOU to keep believing to be saved.
E
That is not the problem
when you say you trust in someone, You do not follow it up by saying that trust can be lost unless the person becomes untrustworthy
He says he trusts God, but then follows it up by saying he can lose his trust, Meaning he really does not trust God.
that was the point I tried to make yesterday
You can tell me you trust someone till your blue in the face. Back that trust up though before I will believe you actually trust what yoru saying..
when you say you trust in someone, You do not follow it up by saying that trust can be lost unless the person becomes untrustworthy
He says he trusts God, but then follows it up by saying he can lose his trust, Meaning he really does not trust God.
that was the point I tried to make yesterday
You can tell me you trust someone till your blue in the face. Back that trust up though before I will believe you actually trust what yoru saying..
R
No, the problem is he's in a pickle because he can't resolve in his own mind how it is that he is doing the believing, yet he can't say he's doing it since, in his mind, that means he's working to earn his own salvation.
He's not Calvinist, but the stains of Calvinism are affecting his doctrinal beliefs, whether he realizes it or not.
He's not Calvinist, but the stains of Calvinism are affecting his doctrinal beliefs, whether he realizes it or not.
R
You're not listening again.
I said it is through God's power that I believe. Not Jesus, not God, not the Holy Spirit.......I believe. They do not do my believing for me. I do it through their power and encouragement.
I believe what the Bible says, that I have to believe in Christ's forgiveness to be justified.
The power of justification is in Jesus. I access it through my belief in his justification. You keep hearing that as me trusting in my trusting. I only trust in my believing as far as God told me that is what I must do to be justified.
I said it is through God's power that I believe. Not Jesus, not God, not the Holy Spirit.......I believe. They do not do my believing for me. I do it through their power and encouragement.
I believe what the Bible says, that I have to believe in Christ's forgiveness to be justified.
The power of justification is in Jesus. I access it through my belief in his justification. You keep hearing that as me trusting in my trusting. I only trust in my believing as far as God told me that is what I must do to be justified.
R
He will let you go for unbelief.
That is the one and only circumstance in which God will most certainly let you go, if you persist in that unbelief and refuse all attempts to bring you back to faith.
You can believe that you personally can't stop believing if you want. I don't know what stage of growth you are at, but it's clear from the example of the Galatians, the Corinthians, and the Hebrew church that it is possible to fall into unbelief with the help of the deceits of the enemy.
I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. 4For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.-2 Corinthians 11:3-4
That is the one and only circumstance in which God will most certainly let you go, if you persist in that unbelief and refuse all attempts to bring you back to faith.
You can believe that you personally can't stop believing if you want. I don't know what stage of growth you are at, but it's clear from the example of the Galatians, the Corinthians, and the Hebrew church that it is possible to fall into unbelief with the help of the deceits of the enemy.
I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. 4For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.-2 Corinthians 11:3-4
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R
I think that is what he believes.
While he does not believe that we choose to continue to believe or not, right?
If so, that's why I say he has the stains of Calvinism in his beliefs. Most Christians do. It's the conscious, or not so conscious thinking that God takes over to some extent and we have no say in it. Most Christians are affected by this element of Calvinistic thought to some extent, even if they are not Calvinist (which he is not).
I think that God is quite able to keep the believer believing.......if the believer wants to keep believing.
While he does not believe that we choose to continue to believe or not, right?
If so, that's why I say he has the stains of Calvinism in his beliefs. Most Christians do. It's the conscious, or not so conscious thinking that God takes over to some extent and we have no say in it. Most Christians are affected by this element of Calvinistic thought to some extent, even if they are not Calvinist (which he is not).
I think that God is quite able to keep the believer believing.......if the believer wants to keep believing.
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what makes you think God will cease granting you this gift?
we see two things:
those who endure to the end will be saved, and God has finished the work of salvation for His people.
from this we draw that God will grant the grace needed for His people to endure to the end.
why complicate it with so many hypotheticals?
we see two things:
those who endure to the end will be saved, and God has finished the work of salvation for His people.
from this we draw that God will grant the grace needed for His people to endure to the end.
why complicate it with so many hypotheticals?