Are Holy Spirit baptisms claims provable?

[DJ2]

The Holy Spirit isn't a "claim" he is a promise.

The Holy Spirit is not a claim or a promise. The Holy Spirit is God. Falsely claiming to be supernaturally baptized and to posses extramundane abilities as a result is irreverent at best and occultic at worse.

Jesus and the Apostles made no claims of supernatural abilities, there was no point. Who needs to claim what is obvious.

 

[DJ2]

well really dude

if you are a believer, that would apply to you also, right?

wait till the paint is dry before stepping out of the corner you backed youself into

if you disbelievers would only check out your own hearts first instead of trying to judge evryone else

the Bible is not just a spiritual book ...you are sounding rather Gnostic now

A Pentecostal telling someone they

are sounding rather Gnostic now

. How very rich.

Wait....let me guess....you are not Pentecostal.

 

[Noose]

2 Thess 2:9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them.

Matt 7:22 MANY will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’

When God says many, He means many. The many people that boast of indwelling of the Holy spirit rely on the signs and all i'm saying is, do not rely on these signs because even satan comes with signs. Some say they are aligned with the scriptures but even satan knows the scriptures.
Pride is not one of the fruits of the Holy spirit, keep quiet in love and let the light in you shine not your tongue.

 

[Silverwings]

Oh Gee, I just got off a thread where one guy was banned, and here we go again, agrue, agrue, argue, I'm outa here, heading for that besides still waters, that is spoken of in Psalms 23!!Being the peace loving person that I am.

 

[JaumeJ]

My posting about how God has used me gives all glory to God, Yahweh. The woman on the mountain practically fell into my arms as I was moved by the Spirit of God to go out into the darkness on the side of a mountain. The words spoken were gven to me. She was practically shreiking, hallucinating and in a complete panic. Because the Holy Spirit was on and in me, my reaction was quite peace-filled and I spoke as it was given me to speak asking "What is wrong?" She replied, "I am tripping and I am seeing creatures under the furniture and everywhere." I asked "Do you want to be tripping?" She replied in a scream, "Nooo." It was given me to declare, "Jesus does not want you to be tripping either.2" At that word, the Holy Spirit came through me and into her, and she as thrown back in my arms. Now here is the evidence it is God's work and not my own except for being availed as a willing vessel, I asked, "What happened?" again simple being in the Spirit. I asked because she began to laugh....and she replied, "I am straight!" This girl was later reconciled to her husband to whom I was also given to witness, and they were instrumental in founding a readio station on the east coast of the US transmitting the Word to the Carri bean and other lactations in the States.

YOu are absolutely right. I am the least of creatures within the naming of mankind, yet, Yahweh has used me many times, and always for others, not for myself, and absolutely never from my own thinking or design but only by availing myself to Him and acting according to what is His will for me.

Believe all things and keep the mind on all things beautiful, and I understand beautiful meaning all things designated so by our Savior.........Praise God, come soon Jesus christ, we await your return, amen.

God can use anyone (believers or not) to do His will- read Nebuchadnezzar's story. God could have used that lady to teach you- i mean, everything that happens, happens because of the will of God and everyone in this world is a player including satan. As much as all people are players, some people can not claim to be special when they are not appointed- remember satan also uses people in the same way.

In a minute Jesus says Peter is right and that flesh and blood did not reveal that to him but the Father in heaven, in the next minute He tells satan in Peter to get behind Him(Jesus). That's why it is never a good idea to feel elevated and special unless you are appointed but appointments never happens lately in this end times because everything was done by Jesus and the disciples.

Jesus says in the end times false teachers will come in His name deceiving and being deceived themselves. These are the kind that have appointed themselves and go teaching truth mixed with falsehoods because they themselves are also deceived whereas in their minds they think they have been appointed.
During judgement day, some will sincerely claim to have done miracles/taught/healed in the name of the Lord but they wont go far with those claims. So what do you think would be the reason for this?

 

[Noose]

My posting about how God has used me gives all glory to God, Yahweh. The woman on the mountain practically fell into my arms as I was moved by the Spirit of God to go out into the darkness on the side of a mountain. The words spoken were gven to me. She was practically shreiking, hallucinating and in a complete panic. Because the Holy Spirit was on and in me, my reaction was quite peace-filled and I spoke as it was given me to speak asking "What is wrong?" She replied, "I am tripping and I am seeing creatures under the furniture and everywhere." I asked "Do you want to be tripping?" She replied in a scream, "Nooo." It was given me to declare, "Jesus does not want you to be tripping either.2" At that word, the Holy Spirit came through me and into her, and she as thrown back in my arms. Now here is the evidence it is God's work and not my own except for being availed as a willing vessel, I asked, "What happened?" again simple being in the Spirit. I asked because she began to laugh....and she replied, "I am straight!" This girl was later reconciled to her husband to whom I was also given to witness, and they were instrumental in founding a readio station on the east coast of the US transmitting the Word to the Carri bean and other lactations in the States.

YOu are absolutely right. I am the least of creatures within the naming of mankind, yet, Yahweh has used me many times, and always for others, not for myself, and absolutely never from my own thinking or design but only by availing myself to Him and acting according to what is His will for me.

Believe all things and keep the mind on all things beautiful, and I understand beautiful meaning all things designated so by our Savior.........Praise God, come soon Jesus christ, we await your return, amen.

I don't dispute all that; it could be true or not and even if it true, it could be for the good or not- at judgement, MANY MANY VERY MANY people will claim to have done all these things in the name of the Lord but will be rejected. My advice is, be cautious before claiming such and i know in this last days, God has spoken through His son- so not so many appointments will happen but they still can happen.

 

[hornetguy]

Well hornetguy, I know you didn't hear me say that anyone had to speak in tongues as proof of salvation, because I don't say that, ever. Far be it from me to cause someone to question their faith. If you or anyone is satisfied with your walk with Christ, I am happy for you and consider you a brother in Christ. I speak in tongues because I sought it. I can only speak from my experience.

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No, you didn't.... I'm deliberately not naming names, but it has been stated in this thread that "the" sign of having the Spirit is speaking in tongues.

I don't speak in tongues, even though I sought it. Prayed for it, had several people praying and laying hands on me... nothing.

I would never say that a person cannot speak in tongues, if the Spirit wants him to.. I also would never tell someone that somehow they don't have enough faith, or they don't have the Spirit in them if they never speak/pray in tongues.

Neither statement would be scriptural.

 

[Noose]

No, you didn't.... I'm deliberately not naming names, but it has been stated in this thread that "the" sign of having the Spirit is speaking in tongues.

I don't speak in tongues, even though I sought it. Prayed for it, had several people praying and laying hands on me... nothing.

I would never say that a person cannot speak in tongues, if the Spirit wants him to.. I also would never tell someone that somehow they don't have enough faith, or they don't have the Spirit in them if they never speak/pray in tongues.

Neither statement would be scriptural.

You are right brother, my experience was rather eventful. When i was young, i used to attend some Christian union organization in high school. There, people used to be 'forced' and i use the word forced because it was all some form of psychological pressure that you'd eventually comply to in one way or another.
Everyone else speaks in tongues except me and everyone else used to fall down when hands are laid except me. Every day I used to go home feeling like a little demon whose work was to put pastors to shame. I prayed and asked God not to leave me behind. In the coming days, the pastors would isolate me- after everyone else is fallen and ‘speaking in tongues’, all the pastors would concentrate on me, 3-4 hands laid on me and all the congregation is praying for me.

What would you do if it were you? I had no choice but to fall down, tears rolling and utter some words that always started with a B and ended with an O plus threw some R in between to the applause of the congregation.
God is not mocked. I thank God for delivering me from this kind of acting, as a we speak now, I believe that 99% of these churches teach falsehood and I’m not of any denomination.

If indeed God is the one speaking through these men, it can not be:

1. Only on Sundays at 0900hrs or Wednesdays at 2200hrs – God is not limited in some human program
2. Each individual would have a specific pronunciation and words that are specific to them. If one uses a lot of Bs and Rs and another uses a lot of Ks and zs, they will always use the same sort of arrangement every Sunday (When the time to speak in tongues comes)
3. No one understands what anyone is saying. 1 Cor 14 is against such, tongues must have meaning and must be for a purpose- purposes are not limited to Sundays at 0900hrs.

 

[Noose]

The kind of tongues being spoken today are clearly controlled; meaning that the person makes a decision that in the next 5 seconds, i'm going to say something - and they continue until they decide that "..in the next 10 seconds, i have to stop..."
This is must be something else because Holy spirit is not controlled in any way- He controls the one He indwells, they wouldn't even know that they are speaking in tongues, the people around them would tell them.

 

[JaumeJ]

The attitude of any who are utilized as servants of God, that is to say vessels put at His disposal is quite unlike what you are describing.

Anyone who is truly a servant of God is not awaiting special attention or treatment from our Father, why is this? It is because we know it is our due, not a gift to Him for there is not one thing we can give Him other than Thanksgiving.

Have I not stressed, I did nothing on any of the occasions cited in my post(s)? Do you not know anyone can be used by our Father for furthering His will to perfection?

No you make me wonder just how much you believe anything, even l abuilding alarm can be used for the works graced all of us by the Father.

No one is excluded by our Father for being a useful vessel here in this age. If you believe those who love Yeshua, Jesus, are all under some kind of delusion when God works through them I am afraid your understanding, and maybe even your faith is lacking.

Give God the glory for any works graced us, for we cannot act without His moving through us by His Spirit.

All children reading this are quite useful to our Father............He serves also who wait on the Lord, amen.

I don't dispute all that; it could be true or not and even if it true, it could be for the good or not- at judgement, MANY MANY VERY MANY people will claim to have done all these things in the name of the Lord but will be rejected. My advice is, be cautious before claiming such and i know in this last days, God has spoken through His son- so not so many appointments will happen but they still can happen.

 

[Noose]

The attitude of any who are utilized as servants of God, that is to say vessels put at His disposal is quite unlike what you are describing.

Anyone who is truly a servant of God is not awaiting special attention or treatment from our Father, why is this? It is because we know it is our due, not a gift to Him for there is not one thing we can give Him other than Thanksgiving.

Have I not stressed, I did nothing on any of the occasions cited in my post(s)? Do you not know anyone can be used by our Father for furthering His will to perfection?

No you make me wonder just how much you believe anything, even l abuilding alarm can be used for the works graced all of us by the Father.

No one is excluded by our Father for being a useful vessel here in this age. If you believe those who love Yeshua, Jesus, are all under some kind of delusion when God works through them I am afraid your understanding, and maybe even your faith is lacking.

Give God the glory for any works graced us, for we cannot act without His moving through us by His Spirit.

All children reading this are quite useful to our Father............He serves also who wait on the Lord, amen.

Nebuchadnezzar should have a bigger claim when it comes to being used as a servant:

Jer 27:5"I have made the earth, the men and the beasts which are on the face of the earth by My great power and by My outstretched arm, and I will give it to the one who is pleasing in My sight. 6"Now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, My servant, and I have given him also the wild animals of the field to serve him.


All i'm against, is the boasting and the thought that anyone is special because they can feel the indwelling of the Holy spirit- aren't you aware that John the baptist is the least in this Kingdom?

 

[JaumeJ]

Anyone who is saved by the Blood of Christ is "used" as you say. I was taught a valuable teaching by someone who did not read or write, who was regarded as "low class", even by some who claim to love.

All who believe may claim the Blood of Yeshua, Jesus, and this too is because of having yielded to the Will of the Father. When they all, and they include me, are used, there is no glory for them.........as I have posted repeatedly all glor is to God, and this means all.

Now my reward is in heaven, not here, and this includes any perceived boasting, when we who believe God boast we boast of hIM ONLY.

Do not look for fault in the brethren, you hve not been given this privilege. If you believe, judgment will be handed over to you and all of the saints, but not before His great and glorious day.

Note: we have been in the las days since Jesus Christ first came to save us........we are not nearing them It is in the Book.

Nebuchadnezzar should have a bigger claim when it comes to being used as a servant:

Jer 27:5"I have made the earth, the men and the beasts which are on the face of the earth by My great power and by My outstretched arm, and I will give it to the one who is pleasing in My sight. 6"Now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, My servant, and I have given him also the wild animals of the field to serve him.


All i'm against, is the boasting and the thought that anyone is special because they can feel the indwelling of the Holy spirit- aren't you aware that John the baptist is the least in this Kingdom?

 

[Lancelot]

The kind of tongues being spoken today are clearly controlled; meaning that the person makes a decision that in the next 5 seconds, i'm going to say something - and they continue until they decide that "..in the next 10 seconds, i have to stop..."
This is must be something else because Holy spirit is not controlled in any way- He controls the one He indwells, they wouldn't even know that they are speaking in tongues, the people around them would tell them.

Read what Paul said about tongues in I Cor. 12 & 14 and you'll see that they decided when to speak in tongues and when not to. You don't control the Holy Spirit when you speak in tongues. You exercise your will on when to use the gift and when not to use it. Paul also said "the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" in I Cor. 14:32.

 

[Noose]

Read what Paul said about tongues in I Cor. 12 & 14 and you'll see that they decided when to speak in tongues and when not to. You don't control the Holy Spirit when you speak in tongues. You exercise your will on when to use the gift and when not to use it. Paul also said "the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" in I Cor. 14:32.

1 Cor 12-14 says nothing close to what you what you think.

Chapter 12 talks about being different parts of one body in Christ and that speaking in tongues is just a body part that should work together with other parts (e.g prophesy/teaching...) for a common good. This is not happening today because the tongues we speak are not discernible.

Chapter 13 talks of Love- love completes the gifts of the Holy spirit. Where there's love, prophesy/ tongues/ teachings ...will cease because love is complete.

Chapter 14, Paul is against meaningless noises in church and says God is not a God of confusion, things have to be done in orderly manner; a prophesy then someone inter-prates/ speaking in tongues and someone else explains/ a teaching and one should come after the other so that the whole congregation participates- not everyone making noise in their own corner.

If the holy spirit gives someone a word at a particular time, within the same setting, He would give another the meaning of the word because it was purposed either for the congregation or individuals within the congregation; it can not be a program- tomorrow from 0905 hrs - 1035hrs/ prayers and speaking in tongues And when the time comes, the pastor says "..dear members, today we shall delay our program by 15 minutes because of the guests...."

 

[JaumeJ]

Sometimes well-meaning individuals discourage people who truly believe by dissuading them to not seek to avail themselves to our Father as vessels of service..

These people probably are the same who do not understand that serving God does not require everyone to be as were the Apostles or Christ, Himself, but they are all invited to follow Christ's Example.

In dissuading the innocent, those who pray for the Body members and the Will of our Father are dismissed as worthless when they are actually doing works so great and wonderful by keeping what is needed where it is needed petitioned of the Father.


I have always believed anyone who prays for anyting within the Will of the Father is praying for something that would have occurred or been granted without the prayer but because they believe the Holly Spirit directs their prayers so that they are indeed accomplishing their Father's desires and works.

All who wait for Jesus in the hope of all promised are serving God.

Works do not translate as simply raising the dead, healing, the gifts of knowledge, and more, but those that seem unnecessary are truly the foundation of the Body, for without the prayers of the saints there is no sweet aroma for our Father and no knowledge of His will by the faithful. If you pray for me, I am eternally grateful because I believe you are heeding the Will of the Father by means of the Holy Spirit.

May no believer be discouraged by the appearance of his or her service to God, no, rather always do as we are taught and judge with right judgment- We are blessed with the service graced to us from the Father, and that service which is most easily ridiculed by the unfaithful is most likely among the greatest works we may have to do.

God bless all in Jesus Christ, Yeshua, amen.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I've been around awhile and seen such tricks here on CC before so it's really quite trivial.

it's tiresome and obnoxious

they don't know what they are talking about but seem to think they know everything about everyone and for some reason believe that asking for 'proof' of what they deny will 'prove' they are right...it's equal to the devil tempting Jesus in the wilderness...like 'didn't God say if you...fill in the blanks'

blah

anyway...thx for the rep

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The Holy Spirit is not a claim or a promise. The Holy Spirit is God. Falsely claiming to be supernaturally baptized and to posses extramundane abilities as a result is irreverent at best and occultic at worse.

Jesus and the Apostles made no claims of supernatural abilities, there was no point. Who needs to claim what is obvious.

You should be the last person to speak about the Holy Spirit because you oppose him.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The kind of tongues being spoken today are clearly controlled; meaning that the person makes a decision that in the next 5 seconds, i'm going to say something - and they continue until they decide that "..in the next 10 seconds, i have to stop..."
This is must be something else because Holy spirit is not controlled in any way- He controls the one He indwells, they wouldn't even know that they are speaking in tongues, the people around them would tell them.

really?

well then a person would have to be 'out of control' if the Holy Spirit is controlling them

this is an error that many believe

the Holy Spirit does not 'control' people

we are not puppets or robots

sure someone can 'decide' to speak in tongues, and most who do will know what I mean, but there is a difference when you know the Holy Spirit is rising up inside of you and you pray in tongues

yes, praying in tongues is common and biblical so don't go snorting around saying it isn't I could list numerous experiences wherein I prayed in tongues because the Holy Spirit knew something that I did not know...and the result was ALWAYS spot on..if it means becoming aware of something I needed to know...or trouble of some kind I later found out about and marveled at how the Holy Spirit works or someone somewhere needed prayer and I didn't know

I know some folks here will know exactly what I am talking about and as for the scoffers...well, it's not me you scoff at

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Nebuchadnezzar should have a bigger claim when it comes to being used as a servant:

Jer 27:5"I have made the earth, the men and the beasts which are on the face of the earth by My great power and by My outstretched arm, and I will give it to the one who is pleasing in My sight. 6"Now I have given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, My servant, and I have given him also the wild animals of the field to serve him.


All i'm against, is the boasting and the thought that anyone is special because they can feel the indwelling of the Holy spirit- aren't you aware that John the baptist is the least in this Kingdom?

how UTTERLY ridiculous

then again, even Neb had to admit God was God

is there anything you won't say to prove to yourself how 'right' you are?

you boast an awful lot there fellah....not good

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

2 Thess 2:9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them.

Matt 7:22 MANY will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’

When God says many, He means many. The many people that boast of indwelling of the Holy spirit rely on the signs and all i'm saying is, do not rely on these signs because even satan comes with signs. Some say they are aligned with the scriptures but even satan knows the scriptures.
Pride is not one of the fruits of the Holy spirit, keep quiet in love and let the light in you shine not your tongue.

I would counsel you to drop this accusing stance. Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not demonic.
You are still confusing the GIFTS of The Holy Spirit with The FRUITS of the spirit which are different. Fruits take time to grow.They are different and are described differently in scripture.