Are Holy Spirit baptisms claims provable?

[Noose]

really?

well then a person would have to be 'out of control' if the Holy Spirit is controlling them

this is an error that many believe

the Holy Spirit does not 'control' people

we are not puppets or robots

sure someone can 'decide' to speak in tongues, and most who do will know what I mean, but there is a difference when you know the Holy Spirit is rising up inside of you and you pray in tongues

yes, praying in tongues is common and biblical so don't go snorting around saying it isn't I could list numerous experiences wherein I prayed in tongues because the Holy Spirit knew something that I did not know...and the result was ALWAYS spot on..if it means becoming aware of something I needed to know...or trouble of some kind I later found out about and marveled at how the Holy Spirit works or someone somewhere needed prayer and I didn't know

I suggest you desist from talking about Holy spirit because it is clear to me that you are not fully aware of the subject matter. The Holy spirit is the MIND OF GOD and when He comes in us, we become one with Him (Him in us and us in Him= one).
Nothing rises or lowers that we can feel, He is not a feeling and there's no such thing as the Holy spirit rising.

A child is born, they grow up in wisdom and knowledge (generally- consciousness), there's no point in time that this person/child would claim that they feel their consciousness rising. Same thing with the Holy spirit, we have a change of mind or like Paul puts it, a renewal of mind.

Prayer- You can't categorize the results of a prayer as being spot on. The will of God happens nevertheless, the thing that you cry spot on was already determined before your grandfather was born. Therefore, when you pray, always say something like, "..Father, if it be your will, let blah blah..."

I know some folks here will know exactly what I am talking about and as for the scoffers...well, it's not me you scoff at

Sure, there are many folks here and all over but remember, the wider road leads to a ditch.

Matt 7:22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’

It sounds like some will be telling the Lord, "..Lord, weren't we spot on when we prayed.."
Be humble with what you have, do not show off. Let not your right hand know what the left does.

 

[JaumeJ]

Tongues, healing, prophesy, and all gifts of the Holy Spirit will cease, but not in this age of their necessity, only come the establishment of the Kingdom.

At that time we will all speak in a pure tongue, Zephaniah, we will have no need of prophesy......we will all be fully educated in the truth, understanding and wisdom, oh, and knowledge that truly counts in the eternal dwelling place with our Savior.

People who balk at the gifts of the Holy Spirit do not fully understand the loving care of our Father, and this is a true pity.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I suggest you desist from talking about Holy spirit because it is clear to me that you are not fully aware of the subject matter. The Holy spirit is the MIND OF GOD and when He comes in us, we become one with Him (Him in us and us in Him= one).
Nothing rises or lowers that we can feel, He is not a feeling and there's no such thing as the Holy spirit rising.

A child is born, they grow up in wisdom and knowledge (generally- consciousness), there's no point in time that this person/child would claim that they feel their conscious rising. Same thing with the Holy spirit, we have a change of mind or like Paul puts it, a renewal of mind.

Prayer- You can't categorize the results of a prayer as being spot on. The will of God happens nevertheless, the thing that you cry spot on was already determined before your grandfather was born. Therefore, when you pray, always say something like, "..Father, if it be your will, let blah blah..."



Sure, there are many folks here and all over but remember, the wider road leads to a ditch.

Matt 7:22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’

It sounds like some will be telling the Lord, "..Lord, weren't we spot on when we prayed.."
Be humble with what you have, do not show off. Let not your right hand know what the left does.

dude...that talking donkey would tell you a thing or two

you stubbornly continue on the path even though God opposes you

it's always sad to see blind folk running to jump off the cliff

 

[JaumeJ]

How can it be that any who believe Jesus Christ, Yeshua, is not guided by His Holy Spirit?

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

-It is always advisable to read before and after any quoted paste of the Word with prayer.

 

[Noose]

dude...that talking donkey would tell you a thing or two

you stubbornly continue on the path even though God opposes you

it's always sad to see blind folk running to jump off the cliff

I'm too small for sovereign God to oppose.

Isa 42:18Hear, you deaf! And look, you blind, that you may see. 19Who is blind but My servant, Or so deaf as My messenger whom I send? Who is so blind as he that is at peace with Me, Or so blind as the servantof the LORD?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I'm too small for sovereign God to oppose.

Isa 42:18Hear, you deaf! And look, you blind, that you may see. 19Who is blind but My servant, Or so deaf as My messenger whom I send? Who is so blind as he that is at peace with Me, Or so blind as the servantof the LORD?

nah

I don't believe you think of yourself that way for one nano second

at any rate, we are here to try and help you

 

[JaumeJ]

I must thank you for this post. It has put into words a few things that have been in my own meditations and certainly of many others.......

This post is a wonderful contribution to all who believe, not that many others are not alsos, but this one is very personal..All blessings in Jesus Christ, Yeshua...

really?

well then a person would have to be 'out of control' if the Holy Spirit is controlling them

this is an error that many believe

the Holy Spirit does not 'control' people

we are not puppets or robots

sure someone can 'decide' to speak in tongues, and most who do will know what I mean, but there is a difference when you know the Holy Spirit is rising up inside of you and you pray in tongues

yes, praying in tongues is common and biblical so don't go snorting around saying it isn't I could list numerous experiences wherein I prayed in tongues because the Holy Spirit knew something that I did not know...and the result was ALWAYS spot on..if it means becoming aware of something I needed to know...or trouble of some kind I later found out about and marveled at how the Holy Spirit works or someone somewhere needed prayer and I didn't know

I know some folks here will know exactly what I am talking about and as for the scoffers...well, it's not me you scoff at

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I must thank you for this post. It has put into words a few things that have been in my own meditations and certainly of many others.......

This post is a wonderful contribution to all who believe, not that many others are not alsos, but this one is very personal..All blessings in Jesus Christ, Yeshua...

yeah...I don't open up and talk about my personal experiences often here because, well, they are personal and who is to say they are true or not? mind you, I don't have that problem reading others

but I just kind of 'felt' to write that way and if it help you or encouraged you?

then my heart is glad. truly

hugs in Jesus

 

[Noose]

Does the lamp have to say i'll shine and give out the light or it just gives the light?

Matt 5:14You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lampand put it under a basket. Instead, they set it on a lampstand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

 

[Noose]

nah

I don't believe you think of yourself that way for one nano second

at any rate, we are here to try and help you

What's your plan for helping me?

 

[Deade]

2 Thess 2:9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them.

Matt 7:22 MANY will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’

When God says many, He means many. The many people that boast of indwelling of the Holy spirit rely on the signs and all i'm saying is, do not rely on these signs because even satan comes with signs. Some say they are aligned with the scriptures but even satan knows the scriptures.
Pride is not one of the fruits of the Holy spirit, keep quiet in love and let the light in you shine not your tongue.

Jesus said: I came not to bring peace but a sword. How can we go out and witness, while we keep quiet in love. The Great Commission: "Go into all the world and and make disciples" while being quiet is quite impossible.

You are right brother, my experience was rather eventful. When i was young, i used to attend some Christian union organization in high school. There, people used to be 'forced' and i use the word forced because it was all some form of psychological pressure that you'd eventually comply to in one way or another.
Everyone else speaks in tongues except me and everyone else used to fall down when hands are laid except me. Every day I used to go home feeling like a little demon whose work was to put pastors to shame. I prayed and asked God not to leave me behind. In the coming days, the pastors would isolate me- after everyone else is fallen and ‘speaking in tongues’, all the pastors would concentrate on me, 3-4 hands laid on me and all the congregation is praying for me.

What would you do if it were you? I had no choice but to fall down, tears rolling and utter some words that always started with a B and ended with an O plus threw some R in between to the applause of the congregation.
God is not mocked. I thank God for delivering me from this kind of acting, as a we speak now, I believe that 99% of these churches teach falsehood and I’m not of any denomination.

If indeed God is the one speaking through these men, it can not be:

1. Only on Sundays at 0900hrs or Wednesdays at 2200hrs – God is not limited in some human program
2. Each individual would have a specific pronunciation and words that are specific to them. If one uses a lot of Bs and Rs and another uses a lot of Ks and zs, they will always use the same sort of arrangement every Sunday (When the time to speak in tongues comes)
3. No one understands what anyone is saying. 1 Cor 14 is against such, tongues must have meaning and must be for a purpose- purposes are not limited to Sundays at 0900hrs.

Okay, so you had a bad experience with some people trying to force a fake gift on you. Don't call it all fake.

The kind of tongues being spoken today are clearly controlled; meaning that the person makes a decision that in the next 5 seconds, i'm going to say something - and they continue until they decide that "..in the next 10 seconds, i have to stop..." This is must be something else because Holy spirit is not controlled in any way- He controls the one He indwells, they wouldn't even know that they are speaking in tongues, the people around them would tell them.

​Here you are talking about something you don't understand. We can control when and where we speak in tongues. Why do you think Paul said not to unless we have an interpreter.

 

[Deade]

I'm too small for sovereign God to oppose.

Isa 42:18Hear, you deaf! And look, you blind, that you may see. 19Who is blind but My servant, Or so deaf as My messenger whom I send? Who is so blind as he that is at peace with Me, Or so blind as the servantof the LORD?

This passage in Isa. 42 is prophetic of the coming Messiah: Isa. 42:1-4: "Behold my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights; I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the nations. He will not cry aloud or lift up his voice, or make it heard in the street; a bruised reed he will not break, and a faintly burning wick he will not quench; he will faithfully bring forth justice. He will not grow faint or be discouraged till he has established justice in the earth; and the coastlands wait for his law." This has nothing to do with our witness.

Does the lamp have to say i'll shine and give out the light or it just gives the light?

Matt 5:14You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lampand put it under a basket. Instead, they set it on a lampstand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

It seems your advice to not draw attention to ourselves breaks with the intent of this scripture.

 

[Noose]

Jesus said: I came not to bring peace but a sword. How can we go out and witness, while we keep quiet in love. The Great Commission: "Go into all the world and and make disciples" while being quiet is quite impossible.

You can't witness to unbelievers in tongues, they won't understand a thing and you certainly can't claim to the people the gifts you have, you do them in humility amongst them.

Okay, so you had a bad experience with some people trying to force a fake gift on you. Don't call it all fake.

I have given reasons why it is fake. It can't be planned that every sunday at 1003hrs for 15 minutes and it can't be that every week a similar arrangement and word patterns are used, the Holy spirit has so much to reveal and it can also in UN conferences/school parades/ family meetings/ national gatherings e.t.c

​Here you are talking about something you don't understand. We can control when and where we speak in tongues. Why do you think Paul said not to unless we have an interpreter.

If you plan to utter something that you know not the meaning, of what effect are you in the body of Christ? Are you not considered less than a 6 month old child for at least the child even if they don't have words, they know that their cry passes the message loud and clear.

 

[Noose]

This passage in Isa. 42 is prophetic of the coming Messiah: Isa. 42:1-4: "Behold my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights; I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the nations. He will not cry aloud or lift up his voice, or make it heard in the street; a bruised reed he will not break, and a faintly burning wick he will not quench; he will faithfully bring forth justice. He will not grow faint or be discouraged till he has established justice in the earth; and the coastlands wait for his law." This has nothing to do with our witness.

It is about Jesus but do you know what it means?
it means the people have killed the prophet/messenger by rejecting the message. The people who are blind and deaf have called the messenger blind and deaf.

It seems your advice to not draw attention to ourselves breaks with the intent of this scripture.

I don't think so.

 

[Deade]

You can't witness to unbelievers in tongues, they won't understand a thing and you certainly can't claim to the people the gifts you have, you do them in humility amongst them.

You are making a lot of assumptions here. What don't you understand about we are able to control when and where we exercise our gifts. When I pray in tongues it is in my prayer closet, and that is between me and my God.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Are Holy Spirit baptisms claims provable?


the op asks a question designed to put people on the defense. He does this by asking a question he knows full well cannot be satisfactorily answered without personal attention to detail.

how clever (not)

the question a person truly desiring truth and the revealed will of God, would do better to ask

DOES GOD LIE WHEN HE PROMISES THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THOSE WHO ARE BELIEVERS?

that is direct and the actual question that the op shies away from

responding with personal experience does not negate the word

neither do people who act OUTSIDE of the very easy to understand behavior that is acceptable as described by Paul to the Corinthians

answering the 1st question leads, as reading this thread proves, to further posturing and questions on the part of the op and those who take his stance

the 2nd question is not the no brainer some might think. if you as a believer answer 'of course not!'

then God might lean down and ask of you 'Then why don't you believe me?'

 

[Dino246]

You can't witness to unbelievers in tongues, they won't understand a thing and you certainly can't claim to the people the gifts you have, you do them in humility amongst them.

Isn't that exactly what happened in Acts 2? The disciples spoke in tongues, the devout Jews (non-Christians) heard the wonders of God being proclaimed in their own languages.

 

[nddreamer]

really?

well then a person would have to be 'out of control' if the Holy Spirit is controlling them

this is an error that many believe

the Holy Spirit does not 'control' people

we are not puppets or robots

sure someone can 'decide' to speak in tongues, and most who do will know what I mean, but there is a difference when you know the Holy Spirit is rising up inside of you and you pray in tongues

yes, praying in tongues is common and biblical so don't go snorting around saying it isn't I could list numerous experiences wherein I prayed in tongues because the Holy Spirit knew something that I did not know...and the result was ALWAYS spot on..if it means becoming aware of something I needed to know...or trouble of some kind I later found out about and marveled at how the Holy Spirit works or someone somewhere needed prayer and I didn't know

I know some folks here will know exactly what I am talking about and as for the scoffers...well, it's not me you scoff at

One question---When you die, who will raise you up, yourself or the Holy Spirit?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

One question---When you die, who will raise you up, yourself or the Holy Spirit?

well that is not the real question you have in mind

so go ahead and ask what is really on your mind

 

[nddreamer]

well that is not the real question you have in mind

so go ahead and ask what is really on your mind

You're the one who said "the Holly Spirit does not control people". I'm just curious how you're going to raise yourself up. You need to write a book if you've got that figured out.