Are Mormon claims of the miraculous as valid as others?

[DJ2]

Mormonism is a cult, the God they worship is NOT the God that true Christians (those who are washed in the Blood of the Lamb) worship, any miracles that the Mormon Church claim are of a Satanic origin!

In these last days, the Lord Jesus taught that there would be a great increase in lying signs, wonders and miracles done by the servants of Satan, and (true) Christians need to be discerning about the origin off the power doing these lying signs. Matt 24v15-25, 2Thess 2v1-12, 1Tim 4v1,2, 2Tim 3v1-9, 1John 2v27, 4v1-6, Rev chapter 13 (all).

Christians in these last days, really need to get close to the Lord Jesus and get His anointing to answer these lying signs, wonders and miracles, the Lord Jesus is the Eternal Lord of Glory and He is able to infinity FAR out-miracle demons or Satan! Dan 11v32, Rev 11v3-6.

NOW is the time to get close to the Lord Jesus! Heb 2v17,18, 4v15, 7v25, James 4v6-8.

Since there is no prima facie evidence why assume the claims are even truly supernatural. Is it not possible that the claim are simply bogus?

 

[DJ2]

​Yes they should all be held to the same standard, as far as I am concerned they all need to bring the paperword to prove it. I was part of a movement that claim limbs growing and the dead being raised in China. So I asked to see the video or paperwork and was marked as a rebel.

"You rebel scum"

insert cool Return of the Jedi picture here.

 

[trofimus]

No claims are valid without evidence.


Christianity is not a blind faith.

 

[DJ2]

Anyone can offer you an apple, but if it was a wicked witch, would you still take a bite? Might want to make sure what you're being fed, could be something poisonous. Likewise, claims of supernatural phenomena from cults shouldn't be scrutinized in the same way actual Christian churches' (tenets of the faith maintained) claims of supernatural acts are.

This is like equating Jesus on water with Criss Angel (an illusionist) on water. One is the Truth, and the other deception. Both may technically be on water, but what lies beneath is truly revealing. Healing points to Christ, and the love of God, not to a religion that puts people in chains, feeds them lies, and distorts the truth in such a way that it is another gospel.

Anyone can offer you an apple, but if it was a wicked witch, would you still take a bite? Might want to make sure what you're being fed, could be something poisonous.​

Before worrying about if the apple is poisonous you should make sure that the apple is even real. In other words, did the physical supernatural event even happen and was it even supernatural.

Likewise, claims of supernatural phenomena from cults shouldn't be scrutinized in the same way actual Christian churches' (tenets of the faith maintained) claims of supernatural acts are.​

Why? Why two different standards for proof of prima facie?

This is like equating Jesus on water with Criss Angel (an illusionist) on water. One is the Truth, and the other deception. Both may technically be on water, but what lies beneath is truly revealing​

Come on man. Criss Angel is a self professed illusionist. Churches that claim physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit are certainly not.

Healing points to Christ, and the love of God, not to a religion that puts people in chains, feeds them lies, and distorts the truth in such a way that it is another gospel.​

Regardless of what is being preached the issue is the claims of supernatural events. You are attempting to change the subject.

If this is the best you have to offer, I suggest you rethink your theology.

Blessed are those who do not see yet believe. John 20:29

 

[CS1]

Are we to judge the validity of claims of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit by which group does the claiming? Many dismiss Mormon claims of raising the dead, healing the sick, giving sight to the blind and speaking in tongues as fraudulent, while giving a pass to the claims of more accepted groups. It seems that any group claiming such abilities should be held to the same level of scrutiny.

Simply put, are all claims the same?

If you look at scriptures we do see were Jesus said in Matt 24 " watch out no one decieve you. "

those who claim that healing and raising the dead and speaking in tongues AND deny the Lord Jesus Christ is false. That is the issue with the mormons. those who do not deny the Lord Jesus Christ and teach that God is the healer , and the one who will raise the dead, and the baptizer in the Holy Spirit as the word of God teachs should be seen by the very confession of faith they speak. and not to be distorted with other groups who deny the Lord Jesus and have been known by all, orthodxy christianty to be a cult. the claim is nothing without the confession of Christ and glory given to HIM .

 

[Nehemiah6]

those who claim that healing and raising the dead and speaking in tongues AND deny the Lord Jesus Christ is false.

I agree that False Christianity cannot have valid miracles. But Mormons DO NOT deny the Lord Jesus Christ. The have "another Jesus". Here is what they say on their official website:

Titles of Jesus Christ
He was known as Jehovah by the Old Testament prophets (see Abraham 1:16; Exodus 6:3). The prophets were shown of His coming: “Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!” (1 Nephi 11:21; see also John 1:14). His mother was told, “Call his name Jesus. … He shall be … called the Son of the Highest” (Luke 1:31–32).

Many titles and names are descriptive of His divine mission and ministry. He Himself taught: “I am the light and the life of the world. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end” (3 Nephi 9:18). “I am … your advocate with the Father” ( D&C 29:5; see also D&C 110:14 ). “I am the good shepherd” (John 10:11). “I am Messiah, the King of Zion, the Rock of Heaven” (Moses 7:53). “I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger [or] thirst” (John 6:35). “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman” (John 15:1). “I am the resurrection, and the life” (John 11:25). “I am … the bright and morning star” (Revelation 22:16), “Jesus Christ, your Redeemer, the Great I Am” ( D&C 29:1 ).

He is the Mediator (see 1 Timothy 2:5), the Savior (see Luke 2:11), the Redeemer (see D&C 18:47 ), the Head of the Church (see Ephesians 5:23), its Chief Cornerstone (see Ephesians 2:20). At the last day, “God shall judge … men by Jesus Christ according to [the] gospel” (Romans 2:16; see also Mormon 3:20)....

Atonement of Jesus Christ
Before the Crucifixion and afterward, many men have willingly given their lives in selfless acts of heroism. But none faced what Christ endured. Upon Him was the burden of all human transgression, all human guilt. And hanging in the balance was the Atonement. Through His willing act, mercy and justice could be reconciled, eternal law sustained, and that mediation achieved without which mortal man could not be redeemed.

He by choice accepted the penalty in behalf of all mankind for the sum total of all wickedness and depravity; for brutality, immorality, perversion, and corruption; for addiction; for the killings and torture and terror—for all of it that ever had been or all that ever would be enacted upon this earth. In so choosing He faced the awesome power of the evil one, who was not confined to flesh nor subject to mortal pain. That was Gethsemane!...

Jesus Christ, The Son of God

Even though they have all this down correctly, they have a false gospel and promote a False Christianity

 

[CS1]

I agree that False Christianity cannot have valid miracles. But Mormons DO NOT deny the Lord Jesus Christ. The have "another Jesus". Here is what they say on their official website:



Jesus Christ, The Son of God

Even though they have all this down correctly, they have a false gospel and promote a False Christianity

what I am saying and I could be wrong Please note I did say that Jesus said in Matt 24 there would be great sign and workers of wonders but they were to be seen as of the works of the devil. Any one who denys the Lord Jesus Christ has comein the flesh is the spirit of anti-christ. Even if the raise the dead.

that is the decernment of the fruit they are doing Jesus gets the glory or does man .

 

[Didymous]

what I am saying and I could be wrong Please note I did say that Jesus said in Matt 24 there would be great sign and workers of wonders but they were to be seen as of the works of the devil. Any one who denys the Lord Jesus Christ has comein the flesh is the spirit of anti-christ. Even if the raise the dead.

that is the decernment of the fruit they are doing Jesus gets the glory or does man .

I believe they also teach that Jesus and Satan were brothers: A strong argument that their Jesus is different than the one I know.

 

[DJ2]

what I am saying and I could be wrong Please note I did say that Jesus said in Matt 24 there would be great sign and workers of wonders but they were to be seen as of the works of the devil. Any one who denys the Lord Jesus Christ has comein the flesh is the spirit of anti-christ. Even if the raise the dead.

that is the decernment of the fruit they are doing Jesus gets the glory or does man .

The issue of Mormon theology is moot until we know if the events was even miraculous regardless of who is making the claims, whether it be Mormon or Assembly of God.

Harping on if the Mormon theology is right or wrong is a sidestep toward ignoring the OP. I suggest that all claims of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit be held to the same standard. No matter who is claiming it the supernatural is supernatural and fraud is fraud.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I believe they also teach that Jesus and Satan were brothers: A strong argument that their Jesus is different than the one I know.

Correct. They call them "spirit brothers" which is ludicrous. As I said they have "another Jesus" even though they have much from Scripture that cannot be faulted.

 

[DJ2]

If you look at scriptures we do see were Jesus said in Matt 24 " watch out no one decieve you. "

those who claim that healing and raising the dead and speaking in tongues AND deny the Lord Jesus Christ is false. That is the issue with the mormons. those who do not deny the Lord Jesus Christ and teach that God is the healer , and the one who will raise the dead, and the baptizer in the Holy Spirit as the word of God teachs should be seen by the very confession of faith they speak. and not to be distorted with other groups who deny the Lord Jesus and have been known by all, orthodxy christianty to be a cult. the claim is nothing without the confession of Christ and glory given to HIM .

You are putting the cart before the horse.

the claim is nothing without the confession of Christ and glory given to HIM ​

The claim is nothing without evidence. Confessing Christ and giving Him glory does not make the claim true. This is the point you don't seem to grasp.

 

[LW97]

Amen! In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12).

That's exact the way it is!

 

[DJ2]

Okay, lets just say that the entire Mormon Church repented of everything that you believe is false and confess the true gospel of Christ, in whatever form you think it takes. Would that make their claims true?

 

[Nehemiah6]

I suggest that all claims of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit be held to the same standard.

Well if people are preaching another gospel and another Jesus, then it should be evident that the Holy Spirit is NOT doing miracles through them. So they cannot be held to the same standard as evangelical Christians who preach the true Gospel and present the Christ of the Gospels. There are counterfeit Satanic miracles just as there are genuine Divine miracles.

But the days of signs, wonders, and miracles as per the Apostolic Period as over. That does not mean that God does not do miracles today, but not as signs and wonders.

 

[CS1]

Okay, lets just say that the entire Mormon Church repented of everything that you believe is false and confess the true gospel of Christ, in whatever form you think it takes. Would that make their claims true?

LOL If the entire mormons church repented they would not be Mormon any more LOL< ahahahaha

They would be a New Creation in Christ lol . It will do nothing for the "Claim" but it sure will be a big testamony for the glory of God Amen !! your funny

 

[DJ2]

Well if people are preaching another gospel and another Jesus, then it should be evident that the Holy Spirit is NOT doing miracles through them. So they cannot be held to the same standard as evangelical Christians who preach the true Gospel and present the Christ of the Gospels. There are counterfeit Satanic miracles just as there are genuine Divine miracles.

But the days of signs, wonders, and miracles as per the Apostolic Period as over. That does not mean that God does not do miracles today, but not as signs and wonders.

Do you realize you are using the same reasoning as the Pharisees used on Jesus with His miracles?

"Your miracles must be of Satan because you don't agree with our understanding of the scriptures."

 

[CS1]

You are putting the cart before the horse.

The claim is nothing without evidence. Confessing Christ and giving Him glory does not make the claim true. This is the point you don't seem to grasp.

you assume there is even a horse. The life of the person saved is the witness claims are not confessions

Confess: admit or state that one has committed something

Claim: assert that something is still says to be proved

the two Biblically are not the same . I do not claim to be saved . But I have confessed that I am a sinner and have asked Jesus to save me and be my Lord.

 

[DJ2]

LOL If the entire mornon church repented they would not be Mormon any more LOL< ahahahaha

They would be a New Creation in Christ lol . It will do nothing for the "Claim" but it sure will be a big testamony for the glory of God Amen !! your funny

Its a hypothetical. If they repented and thought just like you, would you then accept their claims?

 

[DJ2]

you assume there is even a horse. The life of the person saved is the witness claims are not confessions

Confess: admit or state that one has committed something

Claim: assert that something is still says to be proved

the two Biblically are not the same . I do not claim to be saved . But I have confessed that I am a sinner and have asked Jesus to save me and be my Lord.

you assume there is even a horse.​

Come on man. Of course there's a horse. That's the whole point of the OP.

Horse = Claims of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

Cart = Theology of the group making the claims.

The life of the person saved is the witness claims are not confessions

Confess: admit or state that one has committed something

Claim: assert that something is still says to be proved

the two Biblically are not the same . I do not claim to be saved . But I have confessed that I am a sinner and have asked Jesus to save me and be my Lord.​

I don't know what to make of this.

 

[CS1]

Its a hypothetical. If they repented and thought just like you, would you then accept their claims?

only in your thinking sir,

the hypothetical is nothing but the gotcha game just like the atheist do. it's all skubala . again you assume one acepts a claim of something when they don't

here it is for you again . If a person confess to be a christian and says they speak in tongues I am not goping to them PLease prove it . If the life they live is not to what they confess I question thier actions. If they say you have to speak in tongues to be saved I ask them to prove it Biblically . If they say that tongues are not for today and have gone after the last aposlte died I ask them to prove it Biblically.

I do not go on a linguist mega-thon or try to scientifically explain, the empowerment of God. What is the effect of the relationship ? is Christ being glorified or man ? The Lord gave us very good check & balances one being discernment.