Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

[livingbygrace]

I don't want to get on any debate or anything, but I just felt I should add a couple scriptures.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (Isn't that speaking of Jesus)

I am no Bible scholar either. But God was manifest in Christ, absolutely, I have stated that many times
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.(the Word, that is Jesus correct)

Many quote Jesus as saying
I and the Father are one

But he also said

That they (the believers) may be one AS we are one

So if we know how we the believers can be one we know how Christ and his Father are one
How do you think we the believers can be as one?


I am no bible scholar, please forgive me, but this I do know, Jesus is my Lord and Savior and without Him I would be lost and have no hope at all.

Amen to that

Answers above

 

[dewba]

I did as my Father did:
Matthew 4 - PassageLookup - New International Version, ©2011 - BibleGateway.com

for

the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.
John 5:19

]Col 2:9
For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.


Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.



John 20:28
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”



Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.



John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”



2 Cor 4:4
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.


Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Mal 3:6
I am the LORD, and I do not change.


John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and THE TRUTH, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[onlyme]

Sorry another verse

1John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Jesus is the Word correct) then why does it refer to Him as God.

Sorry just a honest question? I am no bible scholar but if 1 John 5 says the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost are one, then it must be true. God is far beyond more then my finite mind can comprehend, and all I know is I look forward to an eternity with Him, growing in wisdom, and seeing more and more how awesome, amazing, wonderful, beautiful, marvelous He is

So if we know how we the believers can be one we know how Christ and his Father are one
How do you think we the believers can be as one?

Sorry again, you are saying we are united as 1 by God's Spirit right? just asking

 

[onlyme]

So since we the followers of Christ make up the body of Christ united as 1. We are individual yet we are united as 1 in spirit correct? We are 1 in the same, sharing, or bonded together by the same spirit.

Sorry am I making sense? Like I said I am no scholar, I am learning and growing always in the things of God

 

[livingbygrace]

Sorry another verse

1John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Jesus is the Word correct) then why does it refer to Him as God.

Sorry just a honest question? I am no bible scholar but if 1 John 5 says the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost are one, then it must be true. God is far beyond more then my finite mind can comprehend, and all I know is I look forward to an eternity with Him, growing in wisdom, and seeing more and more how awesome, amazing, wonderful, beautiful, marvelous He is

So if we know how we the believers can be one we know how Christ and his Father are one
How do you think we the believers can be as one?

Sorry again, you are saying we are united as 1 by God's Spirit right? just asking

We the believers can be of one heart and one mind in the spirit, but you cannot be me and I cannot be you, we remain individual people
That they may be one AS we are one

In the begining was the word(Christ) and the word was with/besides God and the word(itself) was God

Now I am no scholar so can I just ask you a couple of questions?
What do these scriptures mean

When it says that everything has been put under him(Christ) it is clear that this does not include God Himself who put everything under Christ
1 Cor 15:27

No-one has seen the Father except the one who is from God, only he has seen the Father
John 6:46

John lived with Jesus for three years while he walked this earth, what does John say?
No-one has seen God
1 John 4:12

It is safe to assume John and Jesus are refereing to the same person, therefore only the Father is God(the one true God)

Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live, and one Lord Jesus Christ(note this is in addition to the Father being our only God) through whom all things came and through whom we live

1 Cor 8:6

 

[dewba]

Sorry just a honest question? I am no bible scholar but if 1 John 5 says the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost are one, then it *must be true.

It *is true.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and THE TRUTH, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

HALLELUJAH!

 

[onlyme]

I see what you are saying thanks so The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are 1, as God's word says, sharing the same, I am not really sure how to even put that into words. As Jesus said He is in the Father and the Father in Him, just as Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

I believe completely in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Thanks for answering my questions as well

 

[livingbygrace]

I see what you are saying thanks so The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are 1, as God's word says, sharing the same, I am not really sure how to even put that into words. As Jesus said He is in the Father and the Father in Him, just as Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

I believe completely in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Thanks for answering my questions as well

I believe completely in the Father, son and Holy Ghost too

 

[dewba]

So since we the followers of Christ make up the body of Christ united as 1. We are individual yet we are united as 1 in spirit correct? We are 1 in the same, sharing, or bonded together by the same spirit.

Sorry am I making sense? Like I said I am no scholar, I am learning and growing always in the things of God

Yes, we are one with God but A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be LIKE his teacher: Luke 6:40.

With God, with believing that Jesus is God, we are saved, because Jesus said:

I and the Father are one.
John 10:30
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Acts 16:31

 

[onlyme]

Yes, we are one with God but A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be LIKE his teacher: Luke 6:40.

Oh yeah I understand that we are to follow Christ's example for our life, I believe that fully

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Scotth1960]

Yes, we are one with God but A

student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is

fully trained will be LIKE his teacher: Luke 6:40.

Oh yeah I understand that we are to follow Christ's

example for our life, I believe that fully

Thanks for sharing.

Just to lighten things up a bit, onlyme, Is that your cat

and your beagle in the photo on your icon? I love cats

and dogs, especially cats. I have a neutered 1 year old

male tabby cat, Smokey. He is grey with black stripes

and brownish and white. He is full of life. My cat keeps

me company and is very playful. Pets (companion

animals) are a blessing from God. Take care. God

bless. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[onlyme]

Nah I wish they were mine but actually it's a funny picture I found online and decided to use as my avatar. I used to have pets till I moved, but where I live now I don't. I love animals though and especially cats small and big.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me add

PPS is right

The difference here is not concerning the nature of the son, but the title given if you see what I mean

The Spirit exhibits in Christ. The fulness of the Godhead bodily rests in Christ.
The words of the Father are spoken through the son

All things were made THROUGH the son

The son was with the Father from the begining.
You can say that Christ was the God people refered to in Genesis, but I do not believe Christ is the one true God, scripture is clear on that, only the Father is the one true God.

The only way a person can say that Christ is God Himself is by dismissing much very plain scripture, this is unarguable, and I personally could never do that

I disagree. Yes Jesus called the Father the one true God, but he was giving the father credit where credit was do. Remember he did not think is was robbery to think he was equal with God.

I think for me, and maybe this will make sense to you. What Makes God God. What separates him from Angels. We look at the essence and deity. that is what makes them God. The father is the supreme authority. Even the son and spirit give him those dues. But they have the essence of God. and that is what makes them God. Angels have no deity they are created, nore do they have the essence of God (omniscience, omnipresence, Omnipotence etc etc) . The son was not created, nor was the spirit. but have always been with the Father. Does this make sense?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

BACK WHAT YOU SAY WITH SCRIPTURE.

Matthew 8:2
matthew 14:33

JOHN 20:28
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

HE DID NOT SAY:
"MY LORD'S SON AND MY GOD'S SON!"

First... I adamantly affirm the Deity of Christ.

I HAVE backed what I say with scripture in other threads, along with thorough exegesis of the Greek. See the first few posts of my thread "Who is God... Really?!". I'll bump it.

Start with John 1:1-3, John 1:14, Isaiah 42:1, Matt. 12:18, 2Pet. 1:17, Col. 2:9, Heb. 1:3, Heb. 4:12, Rev. 19:13, Rev. 19:15, Rev. 1:16, Rev. 2:12, Rev. 2:16, 2Cor. 2:10, 2Thess. 2:8, John 8:42, John 15:26, Acts 2:3, and Phil. 2:6.

Exegete merismos, diikneomai, ekporeuomai, diamerizo, hupostasis, prosopon, and especially rhema and logos.


Now... You back up that God is three "persons" from Scripture.

 

[onlyme]

I think for me, and maybe this will make sense to you. What Makes God God. What separates him from Angels. We look at the essence and deity. that is what makes them God. The father is the supreme authority. Even the son and spirit give him those dues. But they have the essence of God. and that is what makes them God. Angels have no deity they are created, nore do they have the essence of God (omniscience, omnipresence, Omnipotence etc etc) . The son was not created, nor was the spirit. but have always been with the Father. Does this make sense?


Actually that does make sense I mean the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost always have been, and are as 1, but all else is part of creation.

All I know is God is far beyond all that I can comprehend, and I believe even in eternity we will be learning more and more about Him and from Him, and it will be beyond amazing.

A

​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

DEAR ETERNALLY GRATEFUL,
Do you really believe in the literal sense and interpretation of Scripture in every instance?
For example, when Christ said, "I am the door", did He mean that He is a wooden plank with a knob in the middle?! Of course not!

Scott. When Jesus said he was a door, Was he prophesying he was a door.? I said prophesy always has and should be taken literally. and you give me something that is not prophesy. whats up with this? Again I have to ask if you read anything I said.

The Bible must be interpreted IN CONTEXT. If the context is literal, the passage can be given a literal sense. If allegorical, it can be given an allegorical sense, or a typological sense, or a symbolic sense, or a parabolic sense, or a factual sense, or a doctrinal sense, whichever sense of the context makes sense in context.

Yes, And all prophesy before Christ was translated literally. Not one prophesy was ever tranlsated as an allegor. So why would God change after Christ, and all of a sudden prophesy in allegory or symbolism? Did God change, I thought he was the same yesterday today and tomorrow? Him using an allegory or symbol to explain who he is, He has done this since Adam, so it makes sense to interpret that in an allegory.

Plus every time an allegory or symbol is used, it is easy to see why God used it, or it is implied specifically. God is not a door. SO it would be foolish to take him literally. God saying I am going to do this in 10 years. it is foolish to think we should allegorize or symbolize what he said to mean anything but 10 Years.

I am sorry if I thought you don't believe in the Trinity. There are so many people on this website, I lose track of who is saying what about God. I just start assuming everyone out there is anti-Trinitarian. My mistake. My memory is fallible.
Also, may I ask you a simple question: What DO you make of Revelation 1:1? I will ask you to make sense of this verse. You can ask me ANY QUESTION WHATSOEVER, and ask me to interpret the Bible. I cannot guarantee I know the true meaning of the Bible in every instance, but I do have a complete Bible commentary set in my personal library that I can rely on, and it is patristic.

Like I said before. Jesus said he would return after some things happen, and that that generation would in no means pass away until all those things took place. Yet that generation is far past, and Christ has not returned, Nor have all those things taken place. So even though Christ used a short term time frame, He did not mean short term in our time, but his time, A thousand years is but a blink of an eye to him. So he has blinked twice since he left. That is a very short time.

Secondly Context. Has all those things taken place? No, If they have not taken place. then how can we say they have already happened. We do not take a maybe (like maybe he meant Israel) because our belief system appears wrong because thewse things have not happened yet. It is called faith. Imagine people before Israel was restored who believed Israel would be restored. It was all on Faith. We have proof. We are seeing prophesy come true with our very eyes. we live in a very special time. Because like the jews who did not see prophesy for 300 years. Mankind has not seen int in almost 2000 years.

My presupposition is that the Church Fathers can be trusted.

Thats a dangerous presupposition. Because your basing your eternity on the what these men you have never met said.

Some presuppose and have as their basic axiom that the Church Fathers of the first 400 years of the Church CANNOT be trusted, but that WE CAN ONLY TRUST WHAT SOMEONE SAID ABOUT THE BIBLE IN THE LAST 200 YEARS, FROM 1800 TO 2000 AND SO ON. THAT THE TRUTH MUST BE RECENT, AND ONLY RECENTLY DID WE DISCOVER THE TRUE AND REAL SENSE OF THE BIBLE IN OUR BIBLE TEACHERS, THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO WROTE IN THE NINETEENTH AND TWENTIETH CENTURY. PEOPLE BEFORE THEN WERE IGNORANT, WHEREAS WE ARE ENLIGHTENED, AND WE ARE NOT PROUD. WHEREAS THE CHURCH FATHERS ARE ALL PROUD, AND WERE UNENLIGHTENED, SO WE CAN LOOK DOWN ON THEM. ALSO, WE ARE CORRECTING THE ERRORS OF MARTIN LUTHER, AND WE KNOW BETTER THAN HIM. AND SOME OF US ARE THE BEST MOST CORRECT CHARISMATICS AND PENTECOSTALS, AND WE TEACH WEALTH AND PROSPERITY FOR ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS, IN OUR WORD OF FAITH MOVEMENT.
BUT OF COURSE, I AM NOT SAYING THAT YOU YOURSELF BELIEVE IN ANY OF THIS NONSENSE.
BUT IF YOU, OR IF I, COME UP WITH A NEW INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE, IT SHOULD HAVE FOUND A PRECEDENT IN THE FIRST 451 YEARS OF THE CHURCH, UP TILL THE COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON. WE SHOULD HAVE HISTORICAL EVIDENCE FOR OUR FAITH, IF IT IS TRULY CHRISTIAN. IT WILL BE PRESENT IN THE EARLY CHURCH. YES, IN ALL OF THE CHURCH FATHERS.

Better yet. Study you word. Ask God to show you his truth with an open heart. And stop listening to what men said. And figure out then who is right. Depending on men is dangerous.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually that does make sense I mean the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost always have been, and are as 1, but all else is part of creation.

All I know is God is far beyond all that I can comprehend, and I believe even in eternity we will be learning more and more about Him and from Him, and it will be beyond amazing.

A

​

i agree, I do not pretend to know everything about God. and would be foolish to think I did.

 

[Red33]

Do you believe honesty from the heart is vital to being a Christian?

If you do answer honestly from your heart the following questilon, however hard it may be to answer truthfully

Why did you give no answer to the scripture verses I placed before you?

You have one heck of a nerve to keep demanding that people answer your questions. You do it because you are insecure and live in error. You are a heckler when you do that. You provoke people with your incessant desire and demand that others answer your questions because you do not like being opposed by those that do not back off. You are one of the biggest accusers on this site and you parade around in your sanctimonious sarcasm making demands from others and accusing them of your own guilt.

You know darn well that when it comes to providing support in the scriptures, my answers are usually loaded and if I give no scripture you know that I have the scripture and have mentioned many times that I am available to give them upon request. But you pretend and lie on this site that it is not so. You deliberately deceive people for your own purposes and that is not good. Your friend VW left for a time and you did not like that and you hold me responsible. But I am not to blame for his wounds or for yours that you both claim and hold the church responsible. You both have scores of inward issues with the church and body of Christ and you come on this site to exercise yourself your way as an independent believer.

Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh and if any deny this simply truth and mystery of godliness, that is the spirit of antichrist, and those that try to cover up their error with confusion are even worse in their pursuit to convince others. If you have one speck of decency or one once of grace in your heart, please do not ever ask me another question as long as you live, for I am not interested. I am officially cutting you off and treating you as one who asks and thinks like a heretic for many reasons. Whatever others think of this post will be between them and God but my conscience in clean on this matter. If you could see my face you would see an angry countenance but without sin and with great joy and peace in my heart.

 

[livingbygrace]

You have one heck of a nerve to keep demanding that people answer your questions. You do it because you are insecure and live in error. You are a heckler when you do that. You provoke people with your incessant desire and demand that others answer your questions because you do not like being opposed by those that do not back off. You are one of the biggest accusers on this site and you parade around in your sanctimonious sarcasm making demands from others and accusing them of your own guilt.

You know darn well that when it comes to providing support in the scriptures, my answers are usually loaded and if I give no scripture you know that I have the scripture and have mentioned many times that I am available to give them upon request. But you pretend and lie on this site that it is not so. You deliberately deceive people for your own purposes and that is not good. Your friend VW left for a time and you did not like that and you hold me responsible. But I am not to blame for his wounds or for yours that you both claim and hold the church responsible. You both have scores of inward issues with the church and body of Christ and you come on this site to exercise yourself your way as an independent believer.

Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh and if any deny this simply truth and mystery of godliness, that is the spirit of antichrist, and those that try to cover up their error with confusion are even worse in their pursuit to convince others. If you have one speck of decency or one once of grace in your heart, please do not ever ask me another question as long as you live, for I am not interested. I am officially cutting you off and treating you as one who asks and thinks like a heretic for many reasons. Whatever others think of this post will be between them and God but my conscience in clean on this matter. If you could see my face you would see an angry countenance but without sin and with great joy and peace in my heart.

He whoi speaks on his own does so to gain honour for himself, but he who works for the honour of the one who sent him is a man of truth, there is nothing false about him

John 7:18

How can you believe if you accewpt praise from one another, yet make nmo effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God

John 5:44

You have responded as you have because you have no answers to the scriptures continuously placed before you. You have a 'head theology' built on knowing the literal scripture, but a theology built on the shallowness of mans wisdom

You have reacted with hurt pride. For as you have continuously stayed you believe you have been raised up as a teacher/preacher of the word
So when you cannot answer plain scripture put to you, you become desperate and hurt by pride, concerned that others will not see you as a spiritual authority. For I discern that is the primary reason you are on cc to be looked up to by others not for the glory of God
If I was wrong you would not comment as you do to so many on this site

 

[livingbygrace]

You have one heck of a nerve to keep demanding that people answer your questions. You do it because you are insecure and live in error. You are a heckler when you do that. You provoke people with your incessant desire and demand that others answer your questions because you do not like being opposed by those that do not back off. You are one of the biggest accusers on this site and you parade around in your sanctimonious sarcasm making demands from others and accusing them of your own guilt.

This is a comment driven by anger and hurt pride. In any debate people put forth scripture to others to suppport what they believe and people they are debating with are expected to respond to it



You know darn well that when it comes to providing support in the scriptures, my answers are usually loaded and if I give no scripture you know that I have the scripture and have mentioned many times that I am available to give them upon request. But you pretend and lie on this site that it is not so.

You ask others to believe the scriptures you quote and to comment on them, but you consistently ignore and give no answer to the scriptures placed before you, that is the truth as anyone can see by reading our discussions on this subject. As you cannot answer the scriptures put to you, you lash out.


You deliberately deceive people for your own purposes and that is not good. Your friend VW left for a time and you did not like that and you hold me responsible. But I am not to blame for his wounds or for yours that you both claim and hold the church responsible. You both have scores of inward issues with the church and body of Christ and you come on this site to exercise yourself your way as an independent believer.


You go to church and yet appear to be driven by pride and anger, and you deliberately targeted VWs posts because as one person put to you.
'If people do not respond to your tune you lash out at them'. This proves you are more interested in the praise of man than of God

Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh and if any deny this simply truth and mystery of godliness, that is the spirit of antichrist, and those that try to cover up their error with confusion are even worse in their pursuit to convince others.

The Father was manifest in Christ, you know I believe that, but the Father is the one true God.

If you have one speck of decency or one once of grace in your heart, please do not ever ask me another question as long as you live, for I am not interested.


I am happy not to ask you questions, you do not answer what is put to you so what would be the point


I am officially cutting you off and treating you as one who asks and thinks like a heretic for many reasons. Whatever others think of this post will be between them and God but my conscience in clean on this matter.


Your conscience maybe clean, but it was a post driven by anger and pride
If you could see my face you would see an angry countenance but without sin and with great joy and peace in my heart.


The above statement brings Matt ch 23 to mind. You have no peace in your heart, that is plain to see by what you write, but some will believe you, the discerning will not

Answers above